Guild Wars 2

nooooo they messed with my sanctuary ground targeting cast time!

Aza.2105:

phokus.8934:

Arken.3725:

Obtena has a point. I’ve been testing these changes and even the orb or wrath is still broken.

What exactly is still broken with Orb of Wrath with the new change to its speed?

That’s the thing, it seems like the exact same speed as before.

But it’s not. Fire an Orb at a distant mob and run to the mob. It’s pretty night and day.

The fact that it can still be strafe-dodged speaks volumes on why this skill is still busted. A 30% increase from a snails pace is still incredibly slow.

Arken.3725:

The fact that it can still be strafe-dodged speaks volumes on why this skill is still busted. A 30% increase from a snails pace is still incredibly slow.

The vast majority of ranged travel time abilities can be strafe-dodged. If I recall, this change make the Orb on par with the rest of those abilities too.

The vast majority of ranged abilities are still faster than the orb even with this buff. I’m still getting instances of orbs going wide right or left on targets.

You’re always going to get that with Scepter as that’s how most of the ranged travel time abilities work. And it would be ridiculously overpowered if it homed in on players. The only change I can even remotely on the table is making it pass through players (one player, let’s say).

phokus.8934:

You’re always going to get that with Scepter as that’s how most of the ranged travel time abilities work. And it would be ridiculously overpowered if it homed in on players. The only change I can even remotely on the table is making it pass through players (one player, let’s say).

interesting idea…. keep it slow but make it pass through walls this will throw a really nice spin in things

I’m not saying let it home in on players, maybe speed it up a little more instead.

Aza.2105:

That’s the thing, it seems like the exact same speed as before.

Except that it isn’t exactly the same speed as before. It’s noticeably faster than it used to be.

Arken.3725:

You’re assuming that you’ll constantly hit 5 people for the full duration which against any skilled player(s) will never happen.

Okay, I have a question. Why does the entire symbol need to hit all possible targets for all possible ticks, or else it’s worthless?

Applying this same logic to, say, Whirling Wrath…how many times does it hit 5 opponents all 9 hits. Is it worthless? Do you ever use it when the situation isn’t going to be 100% optimal?

phokus.8934:

You’re always going to get that with Scepter as that’s how most of the ranged travel time abilities work. And it would be ridiculously overpowered if it homed in on players. The only change I can even remotely on the table is making it pass through players (one player, let’s say).

I don’t think you know what ridiculously overpowered means. It wouldn’t even be mildly overpowered.

Alexei.4698:

Arken.3725:

You’re assuming that you’ll constantly hit 5 people for the full duration which against any skilled player(s) will never happen.

Okay, I have a question. Why does the entire symbol need to hit all possible targets for all possible ticks, or else it’s worthless?

Applying this same logic to, say, Whirling Wrath…how many times does it hit 5 opponents all 9 hits. Is it worthless? Do you ever use it when the situation isn’t going to be 100% optimal?

You should be using it in optimal conditions if possible or else you’re a sitting duck that can move only a few feet. We’re talking about a tiny bit of healing given by a trait that’s only optimal use would be to constantly hit multiple targets. I’m not saying that you’re always going to be using all your skills in the best possible situation, all i’m stating is to benefit from a specific trait that provides such a low heal base that you’ll need as many hits as possible or it’s a waste.

CptAurellian.9537:

Since melee range in ZvZ was not such a big problem before the patch, why should it be now? That trait will fit pretty well, although I won’t go to WvW with such a build. There, I still prefer the hammer and Pure of Voice, both of which don’t fit with such a build.

I think that was the point….

To move away from Hammer only in Zerg vs Zerg (ie, 0/0/30/20/20. or 0/0 30/30/10) and create something where we can use a 20/0/30/20/0 type build. But the reality is, w/o the protection, the 25 per hit isn’t enough to swap out the weapons, IMHO.

I was wishing for SOOO much more when they said they were going to ~DIVERSIFY~ our builds so we’re not ~STUCK~ in Honor and Valor…. but alas, back to using STaff and Hammer….

And the stupid crap they did in Honor w/ Glacial Heart and Mace traits… what a joke.

Let me just run around trying to keep people in my symbols because there’s an additional 250+healing… “Look guys… JUST STAND STILL FFS!!!!! My symbol will heal uz!”

RIIIGGGHHTTT……..

This was NOT a WvW Patch for Guardians…. This was a PvP patch. It diversified PvP w/ Spirit Weapons and Stand Still/Point abilities… where everythign is within 600 range.

Overall, some decent buffs for the builds that benefit from them. No big (or any?) nerfs. I rate these changes a slight boost for Guardians.

I think people have some narrow perspective when they complain … Guardians didn’t really need much improvements to start with so the fact that Anet came in with some new things ON TOP of the already good builds we have is wonderful.

I think it’s about making the Guardian more self-sufficient. I don’t think anyone here can argue that this professions is one of the least mobile classes in this game with a focus on remaining in one spot(symbols). I agree that this patch gave Guardians buffs and zero nerfs, I just don’t think they addressed the issues at hand.

Obtena.7952:

Overall, some decent buffs for the builds that benefit from them. No big (or any?) nerfs. I rate these changes a slight boost for Guardians.

I think people have some narrow perspective when they complain … Guardians didn’t really need much improvements to start with so the fact that Anet came in with some new things ON TOP of the already good builds we have is wonderful.

The issue isn’t w/ the Buff’s in thier singularity… but w/ the overall effectiveness and synergy of builds…. specifically, in WvW.

Scepter was the only real buff, and that wasn’t a buff… it was a FIX, for cry’n out loud.

Guardians are what other classes try to balance to.

Unfortunatly, they put 75% of the usefull / abilities that have the best synergy, in Honor and Valor.

The other 20% comes from Virtues (as 20 in virtues is super nice, 30 if you’re full support)..

And the 5% come from Zeal & Radiance.

Nuff said.

I’m wondering if Pure of heart is worth it for a support build if we are putting aegis on everyone, every 30 seconds.

I can’t wait til I can test the new scepter. As long as one believes that 1200 range tooltip is a lie, it’s a great weapon.

Spirit Weapons got quite a boost here, maybe I’ll have to try that build again for general PvE.

Amins.3710:

The issue isn’t w/ the Buff’s in thier singularity… but w/ the overall effectiveness and synergy of builds…. specifically, in WvW.

I think that what we see with these changes is a balance for making less effective aspects of the Guardian profession better. We see improvements to spirit weapons, CDamage build, and specific things like the scepter, Zeal, etc… ALL of those things have been identified by players as main targets. Whether they are applicable to a specific element of the game isn’t relevant. I doubt very much that’s how Anet choose to change things.

If you feel like WvW aspect of Guardian was ‘shorted’ in some way, I don’t doubt that is simply a perception issue. Are Guardians so poorly performing in WvW that the approach to improve their weaker aspects is a poor way to choose targets for improvement instead of focusing on ‘WvW-specific’ aspects? I’m hard pressed to think that’s actually the case.

Mace of Justice is dope.

Aza.2105:

Mace of Justice is dope.

Its actually quite amazing if you have the right wvw build…

i’m excited for mace of justice now. call me crazy but i actually took it before as well at times. my new healing based symbol build should benefit from it quite nicely.

i am a huge fan of symbols too. sure, your opponents won’t stick in it, nor will your allies, that’s why i try to place it around my enemies and allies, and for enemies at least, we have a TON of ways to cc them on top. i don’t place them randomly and tell people hey come stand in here. it’s not a main source of healing anyways, it’s more of a nice to have. whereas for damamge, it’s pretty darn notable and i find symbols quite effective, even in WvW. love dropping symbols on downed enemies especially when i run off to take care of others.

@Blasino – does aegis applied onto allies that get removed also heal?? didn’t even think about that before. if so, might be interesting.

though in the end, i agree there still isn’t much diversity as they’ve “hyped it up” to be. i’ve been trying myself to branch out, but right now, i can’t really think of too much or anything super solid that will have people deviate from what we’ve been seeing already. decent changes this patch, but i guess was expecting more. not complaining, since Guardians were already in a pretty darn good place. though still think there was more to be had. in a good sense. ; ))

So is Mace of Justice worth to get ?
For cleric build
http://tinyurl.com/osugavl

i think it ultimately depends how much healing do you have, or want. and what you’re giving up to take an extra 250 healing.

it’s certainly a big boost, and one could argue instead of further maxing healing, you could turn those stats into other more offensive ones that you may have felt you were lacking previously, though only one one weapon set.

[ADDED: DANGIT. though this means at least 20 points back into Valor. :// which argubly isn’t the best line for a healing build, imho, but hey, it could still work]

Obtena.7952:

Amins.3710:

The issue isn’t w/ the Buff’s in thier singularity… but w/ the overall effectiveness and synergy of builds…. specifically, in WvW.

I think that what we see with these changes is a balance for making less effective aspects of the Guardian profession better. We see improvements to spirit weapons, CDamage build, and specific things like the scepter, Zeal, etc… ALL of those things have been identified by players as main targets. Whether they are applicable to a specific element of the game isn’t relevant. I doubt very much that’s how Anet choose to change things.

If you feel like WvW aspect of Guardian was ‘shorted’ in some way, I don’t doubt that is simply a perception issue. Are Guardians so poorly performing in WvW that the approach to improve their weaker aspects is a poor way to choose targets for improvement instead of focusing on ‘WvW-specific’ aspects? I’m hard pressed to think that’s actually the case.

While I appreciate your objective point of view, you do seem to not take into account that my perspective is purely one of WvW and that I’ve already stated, that this patch was focused primarily on PvP, and more in between the lines, small solo/roaming builds where 1h’s are utilized more often then not.

Are guardians ‘shorted’, no. Are we pigeon holed into 1 or 2 builds in WvW that focus almost entirely in the Honor / Valor tree lines: YES.

That was and still is, the point. I think the vast majority of WvW Guardians understand this: GS, Hammer, Staff…. Honor/Valor.

Very little diversity and synergy… primarily due to our SEVERE lack of HP’s and the massive hit guardians take when going “Glass Cannon”, rather, any DPS/Burst focused build in comparison to ~every other class~ out there (bar Necro).

Again, I appreciate your objectivity and ability to take a step back when formulating your thoughts, but please, if you’re going to address me specifically, consider my perspective from which I’m formulating my position, along w/ the statements I’ve already laid out.

Amins.3710:

Obtena.7952:

Amins.3710:

The issue isn’t w/ the Buff’s in thier singularity… but w/ the overall effectiveness and synergy of builds…. specifically, in WvW.

I think that what we see with these changes is a balance for making less effective aspects of the Guardian profession better. We see improvements to spirit weapons, CDamage build, and specific things like the scepter, Zeal, etc… ALL of those things have been identified by players as main targets. Whether they are applicable to a specific element of the game isn’t relevant. I doubt very much that’s how Anet choose to change things.

If you feel like WvW aspect of Guardian was ‘shorted’ in some way, I don’t doubt that is simply a perception issue. Are Guardians so poorly performing in WvW that the approach to improve their weaker aspects is a poor way to choose targets for improvement instead of focusing on ‘WvW-specific’ aspects? I’m hard pressed to think that’s actually the case.

While I appreciate your objective point of view, you do seem to not take into account that my perspective is purely one of WvW and that I’ve already stated, that this patch was focused primarily on PvP, and more in between the lines, small solo/roaming builds where 1h’s are utilized more often then not.

Are guardians ‘shorted’, no. Are we pigeon holed into 1 or 2 builds in WvW that focus almost entirely in the Honor / Valor tree lines: YES.

That was and still is, the point. I think the vast majority of WvW Guardians understand this: GS, Hammer, Staff…. Honor/Valor.

Very little diversity and synergy… primarily due to our SEVERE lack of HP’s and the massive hit guardians take when going “Glass Cannon”, rather, any DPS/Burst focused build in comparison to ~every other class~ out there (bar Necro).

Again, I appreciate your objectivity and ability to take a step back when formulating your thoughts, but please, if you’re going to address me specifically, consider my perspective from which I’m formulating my position, along w/ the statements I’ve already laid out.

When i eventually get the chance i will be looking into a new build based partially on my leech build that might work in all walks of wvw life like my current one does. The only issue I am hitting is consistant condition removal at the moment, and the fact that i finnaly found a build that gives me pretty much everything i wanted lol. It will most likely be a while before i get to mess with this too much though, as I will be busy with a new little one at home, but it is something i plan on getting to eventually.

I wish the Mace of Justice patch note were more clear.
The 250 healing power is in ADDITION to the 5% damage that was there pre-patch.
Not in replacement of.

The patch note isn’t clear enough for me (a nitpick, I know).

Bash:

I’ve been working on a one as well, based around Dwayna, Vampirism, Blood, Omnom and a few other goodies….

The problem still arises that we have to build in Defense because of our extremely low HP pool in order to make the small heals worth not going full DPS. Heals w/o Toughness = poor efficiency, and it’s typically better to just go Dmg Negation….

ala, those classes w/ low health pools:

Thieves – Stealth
Rangers – Evades
Mesmers – Blinks / Stealth
Ele’s – running all over the map (simply, ability to disengage)
Engineers – invulns/stealth/root/snares

They could have given us a GM Trait in Zeal that gives us HP’s based on our Power: 10% of our power is converted into Vitality: 2,500 power = 2500 health

Amins.3710:

While I appreciate your objective point of view, you do seem to not take into account that my perspective is purely one of WvW and that I’ve already stated, that this patch was focused primarily on PvP, and more in between the lines, small solo/roaming builds where 1h’s are utilized more often then not.

This patch was focused primarily on PVP? I question the validity of that statement. If it is true, I wouldn’t mind seeing where it set by Anet as the expectation for Guardians in this patch.

If the patch changes for Guardians were indeed supposed to be PVP focused, I can see the disappointment of PVP-focused Guardians. There isn’t any candy here for you this time. It’s just not clear to me if PVP build diversity for Guardians was the expectation set by Anet for this patch.

If the patch was supposed to be focused on PVP, specifically for small solo/roaming builds, then I would think that’s a pretty small scope for such a large patch to focus on. I would immediately question the value such a focused change would have ingame to the whole community.

Obtena.7952:

Amins.3710:

While I appreciate your objective point of view, you do seem to not take into account that my perspective is purely one of WvW and that I’ve already stated, that this patch was focused primarily on PvP, and more in between the lines, small solo/roaming builds where 1h’s are utilized more often then not.

This patch was focused primarily on PVP? I have to admit, I didn’t see any statement from Anet regarding the focus of the patch. I that is indeed true, it’s evident that it wasn’t the way they went about choosing to adjust things.

If the patch was supposed to be focused on PVP, specifically for small solo/roaming builds, then I would think that’s a pretty small scope for such a large patch to focus on. I would immediately question the value such a focused change would have ingame to the whole community.

You’ve implied it yourself, Guardians are fine in WvW, so why change that aspect of the game?

Once again, thank you for your opinions.

I never stated that at all. I can understand that WvWers aren’t happy. What I’m wondering is what set your expectations the changes would specifically focus on an increase in PVP build diversity?

Honestly, I didn’t see anything from the devs stating that an improvement there was a specific target for Guardians in this patch. It would have nice and yes, I agree with you that the Honour/Valour lines are overused for WvW. I can’t help but think that’s the reason why every other line BUT Honour/Valour got buffed. I don’t think those buffs lend themselves to more competitive builds for WvW but then again, I didn’t see where Anet explicitly stated that was their improvement target for this patch.

They dont’ have to state something for it to specifically change an aspect of gameplay.

There were two changes that truely, only effected large scale group WvW encounters, and it’s argueable due to what you have to give up to take it: Glacial Heart and Strenght in Numbers.

Personally, SiN is awesome. Its what it should have been when it first came out. It makes a difference now.

Glacial Heart, while mediocre at best, it is arguably, a decent trait in Zergs… however, having to give up 5% toughness → crit and Condition Removal… it becomes less and less appealing….

20 in Zeal is still, not warrented. You give up alot to get the extra dmg boost, especially when you could take an extra 5 pts into Valor and recieve a 10% boost to damage: ie, 20/0/30/20 vs 10/5/30/25/0 or 10/0/30/30/0 and recieve even more condition removal.

They made Honor and Valor too good and in large scale battles, it’s more about staying power then bursting down, as a Guardian, because of our extremely low HP pool and trait diversity.

Warriors have the exact same “problem”, but from a DPS position rather than a Sustain position.

Suggestion: Don’t take things so Literal. It doesn’t have to be written in words to be true. Life is not ‘black and white’.

Scepter is still useless, orb is too slow, 3 skill only with 2s of immobilization. Why Anet hates guardians? I just want to do damage but be able to have HP and toughness with boon duration. Should have picked Warrior as my main. Insane DPS and 20k HP, even with full berserker gear.

Amins.3710:

Thieves – Stealth
Rangers – Evades
Mesmers – Blinks / Stealth
Ele’s – running all over the map (simply, ability to disengage)
Engineers – invulns/stealth/root/snares

Guardians have Blocks & Blinds, and when used well, can be game-breaking.

Amins.3710:

Are guardians ‘shorted’, no. Are we pigeon holed into 1 or 2 builds in WvW that focus almost entirely in the Honor / Valor tree lines: YES.

I disagree with that. Ever since release I’ve been playing around with Zeal/Honor and Spirit Weapons & Consecrations, and it’s by far the most effective WvW build I’ve played.

While some Guardians are happy thinking “hey look I’m healing nuts here with AH! Over 375 HP per second!”, I’m like “hey look, I’m healing my party for 9000 every 48 seconds!”.
Some Guardians are happy thinking “Hahaha I can take hits”, I’m happier thinking “Hahaha I’m absorbing your projectiles!”.

This sort of build, while it’s good for groups, it sucked for roam and 1v1, and the last patch just made it godlike.
So no, Guardians aren’t pigeon holed into one or two builds, they’re pigeon holed in their own mentality.

This patch was awesome. Just awesome.

Danicco.3568:

This patch was awesome. Just awesome.

I can’t help but think the same thing. They didn’t touch anything that was already good. They improved many things that were not good. I think statements like “They didn’t do this” aren’t relevant because patches are continuous improvements and Anet didn’t set any expectations for what was going to get improvements to the players. Look at where we were, look at where we are at. At the WORST, it’s neutral.

The patch was good for solo / very small roaming group play.

It did very little for the overall Meta of Guardian play and the focus of Honor/Valor being ‘just too good’.

did no one notice this?
Virtues

Shielded Mind: Courage now breaks stun for up to five allies when activated, instead of just the guardian.

aoe stunbreak

Still not worth it imo for virtues, too much stat/damage trait loss for my tastes. Not saying the traitline is weak, but the only thing I want out of it is AoE justice procs which require way too many points.

Danicco.3568:

Amins.3710:

Thieves – Stealth
Rangers – Evades
Mesmers – Blinks / Stealth
Ele’s – running all over the map (simply, ability to disengage)
Engineers – invulns/stealth/root/snares

Guardians have Blocks & Blinds, and when used well, can be game-breaking.

Amins.3710:

Are guardians ‘shorted’, no. Are we pigeon holed into 1 or 2 builds in WvW that focus almost entirely in the Honor / Valor tree lines: YES.

I disagree with that. Ever since release I’ve been playing around with Zeal/Honor and Spirit Weapons & Consecrations, and it’s by far the most effective WvW build I’ve played.

While some Guardians are happy thinking “hey look I’m healing nuts here with AH! Over 375 HP per second!”, I’m like “hey look, I’m healing my party for 9000 every 48 seconds!”.
Some Guardians are happy thinking “Hahaha I can take hits”, I’m happier thinking “Hahaha I’m absorbing your projectiles!”.

This sort of build, while it’s good for groups, it sucked for roam and 1v1, and the last patch just made it godlike.
So no, Guardians aren’t pigeon holed into one or two builds, they’re pigeon holed in their own mentality.

This patch was awesome. Just awesome.

Sorry but spirit weapons in WvW are a joke. There is too much kiting room and too much AoE to make them even close to worthwhile. Also, if you are playing support roles then yes, there are alot of options, but damage roles in large groups tend to fall into that 1-2 build trap, mostly because they need the added healing of MF/AH to sustain the lower health pool.

Bash.7291:

Still not worth it imo for virtues, too much stat/damage trait loss for my tastes. Not saying the traitline is weak, but the only thing I want out of it is AoE justice procs which require way too many points.

So You wouldn’t want to have condi removal on resolve?
nor possibility of placing just for example wall of reflection where it will be best option?

also that is good traitline for supporters – +30% to boon duration.
really as for know I don’t see a possibility for my guardian to don’t have 30 in virtues
btw. spirit weapons isn’t that bad – it have pretty nice synergies with burning builds

Amins.3710:

The patch was good for solo / very small roaming group play.

It did very little for the overall Meta of Guardian play and the focus of Honor/Valor being ‘just too good’.

But that’s a good thing too, for those who enjoy the Honor/Valor builds, they didn’t felt nerfed, and instead of nerfing this particular build to become in par with others, they buffed the others.
Everyone wins…

Bash.7291:

Sorry but spirit weapons in WvW are a joke. There is too much kiting room and too much AoE to make them even close to worthwhile. Also, if you are playing support roles then yes, there are alot of options, but damage roles in large groups tend to fall into that 1-2 build trap, mostly because they need the added healing of MF/AH to sustain the lower health pool.

They’re situational, and how you make the best use of them it’s up to you.
They’re not like Meditations which you instantly gain all benefits of the skill just by pressing the button, but exactly for that their effects are immensely more powerful.
I’m not talking about the Sword alone, because it’s damage sucked before, but the Bow and Shield were always great assets for Guardians in WvW and vastly underused.

They still have the issue of not moving with you once you engage in combat, but if you can benefit from their skills, they’re anything but a joke.
A 20~30 seconds nearly total projectile protection? (with weakness improved it’s even better)
A 4500×2 AoE Healing every 48 seconds with occasional condition removal?

I still want to test more to see how they last in larger fights, but so far they’re not going down instantly before I pop their skills.

And yeah, if you really want to be the melee tank/DpS there’s nothing wrong with going Valor/Honor, it has everything you require for your gameplay so I wouldn’t call it a “trap” too.
But now the thing is, we don’t have only that role to play, our other roles are much, much better, to say they’re on par in performance to our melee/DpS one.

Still, I need to test in some various situations to see if it’s really that awesome, but so far, they’re great.

Lord Trejgon.2809:

Bash.7291:

Still not worth it imo for virtues, too much stat/damage trait loss for my tastes. Not saying the traitline is weak, but the only thing I want out of it is AoE justice procs which require way too many points.

So You wouldn’t want to have condi removal on resolve?
nor possibility of placing just for example wall of reflection where it will be best option?

also that is good traitline for supporters – +30% to boon duration.
really as for know I don’t see a possibility for my guardian to don’t have 30 in virtues
btw. spirit weapons isn’t that bad – it have pretty nice synergies with burning builds

Nope, and nope, i already have plenty of condition reduction/removal so it doesnt appeal to me at all. Wall of reflection is honestly fine without traits in the first place anyways as well, but I don’t use it that often anyways.

As far as being a good traitline for supporters i agree, but personally I dont run support builds so it is a pretty wasted traitline for me. And 30% boon duration does nothing for someone that runs fairly boonless lol

Also as far as burn builds with spirit weapons, it is pretty pointless as you can generally
Keep close to 100% burning uptime on a target already, at least in pve, if your running a burn build in WvW them you are missing out on alot of damage. Switch the trait to make spirit weapons bleed and then we could talk.

Danicco.3568:

Amins.3710:

The patch was good for solo / very small roaming group play.

It did very little for the overall Meta of Guardian play and the focus of Honor/Valor being ‘just too good’.

But that’s a good thing too, for those who enjoy the Honor/Valor builds, they didn’t felt nerfed, and instead of nerfing this particular build to become in par with others, they buffed the others.
Everyone wins…

Bash.7291:

Sorry but spirit weapons in WvW are a joke. There is too much kiting room and too much AoE to make them even close to worthwhile. Also, if you are playing support roles then yes, there are alot of options, but damage roles in large groups tend to fall into that 1-2 build trap, mostly because they need the added healing of MF/AH to sustain the lower health pool.

They’re situational, and how you make the best use of them it’s up to you.
They’re not like Meditations which you instantly gain all benefits of the skill just by pressing the button, but exactly for that their effects are immensely more powerful.
I’m not talking about the Sword alone, because it’s damage sucked before, but the Bow and Shield were always great assets for Guardians in WvW and vastly underused.

They still have the issue of not moving with you once you engage in combat, but if you can benefit from their skills, they’re anything but a joke.
A 20~30 seconds nearly total projectile protection? (with weakness improved it’s even better)
A 4500×2 AoE Healing every 48 seconds with occasional condition removal?

I still want to test more to see how they last in larger fights, but so far they’re not going down instantly before I pop their skills.

And yeah, if you really want to be the melee tank/DpS there’s nothing wrong with going Valor/Honor, it has everything you require for your gameplay so I wouldn’t call it a “trap” too.
But now the thing is, we don’t have only that role to play, our other roles are much, much better, to say they’re on par in performance to our melee/DpS one.

Still, I need to test in some various situations to see if it’s really that awesome, but so far, they’re great.

Great, but the issue is keeping them alive in wvw. There is way yop much ground target AoE to make the shield last that long, and the healing on the bow falls into the issue of people needing to stay and stand in it. Also the AI is horrible ln them which can lead to you not even being near them when their regular skills activate, let alone chasing the bow down to get the healing. There are just way too many flaws to them compared to shouts, mediations, and consecrations, which are all more consistant, and are actualy controlled by you.

Bash.7291:

Still not worth it imo for virtues, too much stat/damage trait loss for my tastes. Not saying the traitline is weak, but the only thing I want out of it is AoE justice procs which require way too many points.

This is exactly why they need to add/buff more damage boosting options in Virtues such as Power of the Virtuous = 2% and capless instead of 1% with a cap of 9%

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Bash.7291:

Still not worth it imo for virtues, too much stat/damage trait loss for my tastes. Not saying the traitline is weak, but the only thing I want out of it is AoE justice procs which require way too many points.

This is exactly why they need to add/buff more damage boosting options in Virtues such as Power of the Virtuous = 2% and capless instead of 1% with a cap of 9%

that would entice more people to go deep into Virtues. which imo is a greatline, but it’s quite niche if i may say so, though it focuses on the CORE of the Guardian class.

@Bash – i’ve been tinkering with a build that aims for the AoE burn procs. i do feel it’s not Grandmaster trait worthy.. but i might just be too greedy. lol. i was also “oh it burns the area around you as well, not your target..” but then again i thought when am i ever tryign to not be near my target?

@Bash ok, when You are not supportive and “boonless” so I agree Virtues isn’t traitline for You.
but for players focused on support that is great traitline.
about Permeathing Wrath trait – as for me that is one of the strongest boost to the virtues – and You cannot pick just the best boost and forget about lesser one didn’t You? that is the thing that ANet wanted to avoid – thats the reason we have adept master and grandmaster traits.
anyway you can take 30 into virtues just to upgrade VIRTUES – if I remember well each tier grants some virtue trait so If You are making use of Your virtues so that traitline still can be good

Lord Trejgon.2809:

@Bash ok, when You are not supportive and “boonless” so I agree Virtues isn’t traitline for You.
but for players focused on support that is great traitline.
about Permeathing Wrath trait – as for me that is one of the strongest boost to the virtues – and You cannot pick just the best boost and forget about lesser one didn’t You? that is the thing that ANet wanted to avoid – thats the reason we have adept master and grandmaster traits.
anyway you can take 30 into virtues just to upgrade VIRTUES – if I remember well each tier grants some virtue trait so If You are making use of Your virtues so that traitline still can be good

My poiny was that from a damage stand point there really is no reason to even try for that trait, as there is not many if any other damage based traits in the line. At least none that compare to other traitlines at least. Maybe if they added some more offense support options other than justice procs on 4 hits (which isnt really that great) and aoe justice procs, which would be great for wvw but I just lose too many stats/useful traits to get there.

Bash.7291:

Lord Trejgon.2809:

@Bash ok, when You are not supportive and “boonless” so I agree Virtues isn’t traitline for You.
but for players focused on support that is great traitline.
about Permeathing Wrath trait – as for me that is one of the strongest boost to the virtues – and You cannot pick just the best boost and forget about lesser one didn’t You? that is the thing that ANet wanted to avoid – thats the reason we have adept master and grandmaster traits.
anyway you can take 30 into virtues just to upgrade VIRTUES – if I remember well each tier grants some virtue trait so If You are making use of Your virtues so that traitline still can be good

My poiny was that from a damage stand point there really is no reason to even try for that trait, as there is not many if any other damage based traits in the line. At least none that compare to other traitlines at least. Maybe if they added some more offense support options other than justice procs on 4 hits (which isnt really that great) and aoe justice procs, which would be great for wvw but I just lose too many stats/useful traits to get there.

^ This sooooo soooo much! +1

The only real damage adding trait is 25 Virtues, and 5 more or less, which if anything is the only motivation for adding “damage” via a traitline. Grandmaster minor (25 Virtues) is still outshined by the other comparitive traits you can get from the other traitlines, and with sometimes less investment.

As Bash is aluding too, that’s not to say Virtues isn’t a good traitline, but in terms of adding actual damage to the Guardian, it’s not. There are far better lines to invest points into. And that’s a shame really.

I know I constantly repeat myself on that, but if they really want to open up more build diversity, fixing 25 Virtues and a better second 30 would go a long way to getting there.

Even from a support standpoint, the Virtues tree for me, isn’t exactly worth it. I’d rather be able to put out decent dmg and support(honor +5 into virtues) than going full virtues and just being a damage sponge with absolutely no threat attached. I don’t like the idea of how virtues work as it is, it’s boring and when you’re having to deal with both sides of this spectrum(active/passive) it starts to become less fun and effective.