[PVE] Cleric's Build suggestions?

[PVE] Cleric's Build suggestions?

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Posted by: SemmlerTh.2685

SemmlerTh.2685

Heyo guys,

I decided to go full Zerks with my Mesmer, but I wanna go a different direction with my guardian, so I decided to go full clerics with monk-runes.
Despite the fact that 90% of all players will tell me to not do that, I still want to. I wanna be tanky, and as supportive with healing as possible.

But now I am just not sure about what I should focus on. The Guardian has so many awesome mechanics, and I dont know whats the one with the most healing output to group members. Shouts, Spirit Weapons, Consecrations and Meditations all make sense.

So far, I have been playing with the focus on Symbols, Virtues & meditations, with Hammer / Staff, and Mace + Shield / Staff in dungeons.

Can you maybe suggest builds with a high healing output?

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Posted by: CMF.5461

CMF.5461

While I know you understand that clerics in pve will be considered a bad build, I want to link Obals post to you anyway:

Guardian PvE Guide by Obal

The reason I am linking it is not necessarily the zerker meta droning, but because he has very valid points on why to bring certain skills and how the guardian assists the group effectively.

Beyond that, I also want to suggest instead of pure clerics, instead you mix in magi gear with things with power/crit rating. (I know you already bought the gear sorry)

Try to hit a healing power range of about 700-900 then move the stats to something more damage oriented. The reason being that you will see just as much healing effectiveness at those ranges in terms of heals per a second.

After that, focus on layers of healing to vastly ramp up healing per second. So things like regen/vor/writ of merciful/mace auto/dodge heals. You can even throw in monks focus with just smite condition if need be for some burst healing like a second self healing skill.

By doing that you take each individual heal and combine that for a larger heals per second up to the 600-700 range depending on healing power. Works better than just healing power alone and one skill and allows you to put stats back into damage or something else.

Even in full clerics gear you won’t be “tanking” anything, so you can just get “enough” healing and then flip back to damage.

I suggest at least 40% crit chance with 200% crit damage, and aim for near 2k power, with the rest of your stats in healing if you wanted. Mix in self might stacks with sigils of battle and on crit might trait to help pad your damage. But in groups you may find someone already stacking might for you, and it becomes less useful to invest into.

The idea is to at least double your damage, and after that you can either continue to go full damage or if you want to go with healing or toughness/vitality.

I think if you do the above, you can have decent damage, but still reach the level of healing that you had desired. You will “not” be a tank though, no one is. You can however enjoy a lot of green numbers for you and your group while still seeing ok damage numbers and decent kill times.

(edited by CMF.5461)

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Posted by: Charak.9761

Charak.9761

I’d seriously advise against this, a dps guard can tank via blind stomp

but if it’s how you want to play, here’s a full team heal build

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNAW5dl8ApUo1CxdI8DNRCRld+9fnJ2fQGUCXFAA-TBSDABOcEAMUJImq/E1+DZp8TPdDAcBAk4hAQKgvVGB-e

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Posted by: NICENIKESHOE.7128

NICENIKESHOE.7128

In PvE the faster you take down them, the less damage you take. Bosses’ moves are also predictable and you can learn after a couple of fights. So with enough experience, healing power, toughness and vitality is often exceeded by power, precision and crit damage. And in high level fractals, it’ll be hard to out-heal the damage you take, so people tends to maximize their attacks and dodge when necessary.

I must emphasize on the usefulness though, cleric really shines in WvW support guardians. I run 0/0/2/6/6, almost full cleric with trooper runes, shout and virtue traits. I have lots of healing and condition removals for people roaming with me. I heal about 1.5k when dodging and 1k when swap weapon. Along with all those boons/converted boons and sigil of energy I can deliver a lot of healing output to my teammates. Though I’m pretty much rely on them to deal damage so I must have roaming partners.

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Posted by: Ghotistyx.6942

Ghotistyx.6942

IJust want to point out how well written and useful CMF’s post is. I second everything he said.

Fishsticks

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Posted by: mPascoal.4258

mPascoal.4258

For the love of God don’t do a Cleric Guardian for PvE
I go be other have said and all CMF said is true. I’s used Cleric when I was at the begining with Guard, then changed to AH with full zerker then to Obal build. Gotta say it’s rough to get used too, I myself am not 100% confortable with it yet, I need to get used to the dgn first, but AC and CoF aren’t a problem, and for Open World I either switch to AH Zerker or just change some traits to use Scepter and attack from range (like with Buddy Blitz for example, but this last is for zergy PvE stuff, dgn’s is purely what in Obal build). From all PvE builds, Obal is the most complete. Also is most confortable with zerker groups as I do way better in a pure zerker group than in a normal group, and the run usually goes faster and smother. I though zerker groups were more stressfull groups as everything is rushed but it is not, ppl there know what to do and builds complete eachother most of the times.

After behing a bit agaist meta builds, after trying in Guardian and Thief I gotta say, they are called meta for some reason.

Now I also get ppl don’t want to follow sometimes, it’s fine, you can also not use the meta, but please don’t use Cleric, anything but that. Use Zealot, it gets the healing you want so much and still delivers some damage. Cleric as it is, and after testing different builds as I said, Imo is the most useless stat comp FOR PVE (WvW and sPvP is more than welcome). Unless you want ot play the Guardian as a smash 1 and just 1 botton, or not even use it just leaving auto-attack and leave to eat a snack I garantue you have more than time for that with full Cleric build ….

Phask - Guardian/DH | Phaskk - Warrior | Phaask - Revenant

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Posted by: SemmlerTh.2685

SemmlerTh.2685

well, I came up with the idea, because I thought it would help me, carrying weaker groups through the dungeons. Turns out, healing and being tanky cannot replace the individual skill of the surrounding players. Might as well go for Zerks then. Thanks anyway for all your advice. At this point, they should just remove everything and make it zerks, as this is the only thing that seems to be viable.

Seriously Disappointed….

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

well, I came up with the idea, because I thought it would help me, carrying weaker groups through the dungeons. Turns out, healing and being tanky cannot replace the individual skill of the surrounding players. Might as well go for Zerks then. Thanks anyway for all your advice. At this point, they should just remove everything and make it zerks, as this is the only thing that seems to be viable.

Seriously Disappointed….

Well there is also Assassin’s

Seriously though, it’s more that everyone has figured out hte dungeons and generally you’re expected to have done a little research to know the paths as well. So with that good PVE players runs glass cannon builds because we know when to dodge, how to LoS, and what to bring utility wise. You can watch a Youtube video and know the content well enough to handle it in zerk gear or at least after a few practice runs.

It’s just the product of old stale content that has been mastered to the point of being trivial.

(edited by Jerus.4350)

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Posted by: Thaddeus.4891

Thaddeus.4891

well, I came up with the idea, because I thought it would help me, carrying weaker groups through the dungeons. Turns out, healing and being tanky cannot replace the individual skill of the surrounding players. Might as well go for Zerks then. Thanks anyway for all your advice. At this point, they should just remove everything and make it zerks, as this is the only thing that seems to be viable.

Seriously Disappointed….

Don’t get disappointed. Yup, PvE gear is pretty limited to zerker or assassins (or some knight/soldier gear while you learn). But the diversity in runes, trait, weapons, skills, sigils, etc can be amazing. In a lot of game, you end up with 1 good build per class that pretty much everybody run. In GW2, you have 2-3 good build for each profession, and even there, you can switch several times during dungeon to adapt to each situation if you want. Diversity is not in gear, but its in everything else.

Thaddeauz [xQCx]- QC GUILD

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Posted by: Lonewolf Kai.3682

Lonewolf Kai.3682

well, I came up with the idea, because I thought it would help me, carrying weaker groups through the dungeons. Turns out, healing and being tanky cannot replace the individual skill of the surrounding players. Might as well go for Zerks then. Thanks anyway for all your advice. At this point, they should just remove everything and make it zerks, as this is the only thing that seems to be viable.

Seriously Disappointed….

Don’t get disappointed. Yup, PvE gear is pretty limited to zerker or assassins (or some knight/soldier gear while you learn). But the diversity in runes, trait, weapons, skills, sigils, etc can be amazing. In a lot of game, you end up with 1 good build per class that pretty much everybody run. In GW2, you have 2-3 good build for each profession, and even there, you can switch several times during dungeon to adapt to each situation if you want. Diversity is not in gear, but its in everything else.

I disagree with most of this. Meta build is pretty definitive in what you should have to be the most effective. Any deviation from this and your less. There aren’t 2-3 good builds for each profession when it comes to PvE. There’s usually only 1 with slight, and I mean very slight, alterations to the traits/skills.

Also, the most effective PvE gear is zerker ONLY, assassins isn’t needed because zerker’s provides enough crit chance, and knights or soldiers gear is certainly not needed at all.

For people that want more than that, it certainly is disappointing.

“Be like water” – Bruce Lee

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Posted by: Thaddeus.4891

Thaddeus.4891

I disagree with most of this. Meta build is pretty definitive in what you should have to be the most effective. Any deviation from this and your less. There aren’t 2-3 good builds for each profession when it comes to PvE. There’s usually only 1 with slight, and I mean very slight, alterations to the traits/skills.

Also, the most effective PvE gear is zerker ONLY, assassins isn’t needed because zerker’s provides enough crit chance, and knights or soldiers gear is certainly not needed at all.

For people that want more than that, it certainly is disappointing.

I speak for Guardian only because that’s my main.
Good Build?
GS+Sword/Focus : 4/5/0/0/5 for support, 4/6/2/0/2 for dps
GS+H: 3/5/4/0/2 for support, 5/5/0/4/0 for dps
Hammer Camp : 5/5/0/4/0
GS+Scepter/Focu : 6/6/2/0/0 or 6/6/0/0/2

All those build can give you 10k+ DPS and are all top dps. You can say that Hammer camping is too similar to GS+H. Ok. That still give us 3 different set of weapons, with different gameplay.

Same thing with Ele. You have the S/X + LH might stacking build, there is the staff fire camping build, there is also the D/F more balance build for fractal. All are three high dps meta build.

Assassins is good for Solo gameplay, and for Mesmer reflect build. I didn’t say that it was always the best option. But some good PvE build use it or at least some pieces of it. Also keep in mind that right now, a lot less ppl are using stacking sigil. For the Guardian hammer build, if you don’t use perception sigil, precision food and maintenance oil (a situation that happen more and more in dungeon these day), then assassin is superior to berserker. Not by much, but it is. I prefer myself to keep my armor to berserker and make adjustment with food, nourishment and sigil, but there is other good options.

I said knight and soldier for when you ’’LEARN’’. I will always push ppl to get better, but i will never say, zerker or gtfo. Some ppl, and some of those are friends and guildmate, just don’t play enough to care about the best build possible. I have no problem with someone that take 2-3 pieces of knight or soldier while they are learning the game, a new profession or simply because they are casual. They will still be accepted in my normal runs and I’ll still have fun with them. Remember, i never said that soldier/knight was needed or optimal. I only said that is was a good option for Learning.

Thaddeauz [xQCx]- QC GUILD

(edited by Thaddeus.4891)

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Posted by: Lonewolf Kai.3682

Lonewolf Kai.3682

I disagree with most of this. Meta build is pretty definitive in what you should have to be the most effective. Any deviation from this and your less. There aren’t 2-3 good builds for each profession when it comes to PvE. There’s usually only 1 with slight, and I mean very slight, alterations to the traits/skills.

Also, the most effective PvE gear is zerker ONLY, assassins isn’t needed because zerker’s provides enough crit chance, and knights or soldiers gear is certainly not needed at all.

For people that want more than that, it certainly is disappointing.

I speak for Guardian only because that’s my main.
Good Build?
GS+Sword/Focus : 4/5/0/0/5 for support, 4/6/2/0/2 for dps
GS+H: 3/5/4/0/2 for support, 5/5/0/4/0 for dps
Hammer Camp : 5/5/0/4/0
GS+Scepter/Focu : 6/6/2/0/0 or 6/6/0/0/2

All those build can give you 10k+ DPS and are all top dps. You can say that Hammer camping is too similar to GS+H. Ok. That still give us 3 different set of weapons, with different gameplay.

Same thing with Ele. You have the S/X + LH might stacking build, there is the staff fire camping build, there is also the D/F more balance build for fractal. All are three high dps meta build.

Assassins is good for Solo gameplay, and for Mesmer reflect build. I didn’t say that it was always the best option. But some good PvE build use it or at least some pieces of it. Also keep in mind that right now, a lot less ppl are using stacking sigil. For the Guardian hammer build, if you don’t use perception sigil, precision food and maintenance oil (a situation that happen more and more in dungeon these day), then assassin is superior to berserker. Not by much, but it is. I prefer myself to keep my armor to berserker and make adjustment with food, nourishment and sigil, but there is other good options.

I said knight and soldier for when you ’’LEARN’’. I will always push ppl to get better, but i will never say, zerker or gtfo. Some ppl, and some of those are friends and guildmate, just don’t play enough to care about the best build possible. I have no problem with someone that take 2-3 pieces of knight or soldier while they are learning the game, a new profession or simply because they are casual. They will still be accepted in my normal runs and I’ll still have fun with them. Remember, i never said that soldier/knight was needed or optimal. I only said that is was a good option for Learning.

Assassin vs Beserker (simple) comparison:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNAR8NoIeoyKFt+DahNoyAoBu6IA-TBBXgAA7PK/C1N0r+zjSwAAHA/+b+23gzP/8zP/8O/8zP/8zLFQEjBA-e

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNAR8NoIeoyKFt+DahNoyAoBu6IA-TRBXwAA2fU+FSzgLdALV/5hSwAAHA/+b+23gzP/8zP/8O/8zP/8zLFQEjBA-e

tldr:
Power: 2646 vs 2498
Crit Chance: 57% vs 64%

You can draw your own conclusions. % modifers alone favor Beserker.

Meta is all about the best. THere is no deviation from it. You can’t substitute/change and still be considered the best.

You can learn just as good in ‘Zerker gear as you can in Knights/Soldiers because of the one shot mechanics in this game. Therefore, Meta ’Zerker is the only gear you need, learning or not. I personally don’t like this sentimentality, but it is what it is.

If you look at the Meta builds and their “variety” they are pretty much geared and built the same way. DPS, DPS, DPS. That’s all that matters. And that’s what’s disappointing about this game. Sure there’s a little variety (3-4 weapons, a trait point switch here and there), but when you step back away from the Meta builds and look at what the proffession, what each profession, has available as a whole, it is disappointing at what’s effective and what is not because there’s a lot not being used.

“Be like water” – Bruce Lee

(edited by Lonewolf Kai.3682)

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

I really don’t understand why people are so opposed to an offensive mindset. It’s the dominating mindset of every MMO i’ve played when you get down to the min/max speed run situations.

Everquest. I played my bard with everything focused on DPS aside from making sure I had my other jobs covered, I’d be ready for CC and I’d be throwing my support, but once those were covered I’d do everything in my power to pump the damage I could out.

I played Cleric as well, in that they gave them Direct Damage spells that would heal the target of the enemy you were attacking. So of course I used those plenty to pump out decent damage while also healing.

Shaman the same.

Warrior the same, hold agro, survive, but if I can sacrifice some defense for offense I did. Same with SK and Pally (I played a lot of EQ).

THen I moved to DCUO as my next major game. There I did the same. Running healers/tanks in mostly DPS gear because I knew I could survive the content on the base skills my role gave me alone. I didn’t need the stats that boosted my defense when I could tank things just fine in mostly DPS gear. The hardest content the game had seen, content that was reported as only being done by 2% of the population, I was doing with a fully dps geared healer and being the only healer for the group. Doing 1/2-2/3 the damage of a full DPSer while also covering all the necessary heals.

/shrug, I know I play MMOs too much, and with that I analyze each one I play and min/max to get the roles I’m put into done to the best of my ability. But in each one I find that the roles only cover so much, and I can easily accomplish what the roles require. And in these situations I fill in my “free time” with DPS to the best of my ability. If I don’t need to toss a heal, i’ll toss a damage ability while I wait for the need for the heal to arise.

GW2 is of course unique though in that it doesn’t have the same clearly defined roles. In essense we’re all hybrids by general terms. So the roles are more about the jobs that need to be done in different situations and who can best fill that need. I know as a guard I’m there for my Stability, Aegis, and Projectil defense. With that though I can also add protection, quickness, regen, swiftness, and a whole plethora of other things including damage. So I fill my role in the group, and when i’m not actively doing that, of course I’m doing damage, what else should I be doing? being tanky for no reason? why? that’s not min/maxing, that’s simply mindlessly playing how you want with no reason just arbitrarily wanting to do that.

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Posted by: Ghotistyx.6942

Ghotistyx.6942

So basically what jerus said. There is a priority system for each person in any sort of content:

1) Doing the job that your class/build is designed to accomplish
2) Damage
3) anything else you can contribute

He brings up a good point that we might forget sometimes, in that “what else are you going to so when you don’t need to do #1?”. Even fit my 2k+ hpow guardian I have for fun, after trying to pump out all the heals I can, I focus on raising damage, because there’s nothing else to do. You can’t just stand there in a zerg or on point or in a dungeon doing nothing because you don’t have anything to cc or any conditions to remove, you’ll just attack and add whatever small amount of damage you can do, even if it’s pitiful.

Even meta builds don’t builds for full damage. We have some “theoretically highest dps builds”, but no one actually recommends them, because the build that sacrifice a bit of damage to add in support are much more desired. You’re properly building towards the support you need to give first, then adding in whatever extra damage you can afford.

Note, this doesn’t mean I don’t want there to be even more options for support, or to see conditions and cc have a more game wide application than currently, but we’ll have to wait for some more updates for those.

Fishsticks

(edited by Ghotistyx.6942)

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Posted by: Thaddeus.4891

Thaddeus.4891

Assassin vs Beserker (simple) comparison:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNAR8NoIeoyKFt+DahNoyAoBu6IA-TBBXgAA7PK/C1N0r+zjSwAAHA/+b+23gzP/8zP/8O/8zP/8zLFQEjBA-e

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNAR8NoIeoyKFt+DahNoyAoBu6IA-TRBXwAA2fU+FSzgLdALV/5hSwAAHA/+b+23gzP/8zP/8O/8zP/8zLFQEjBA-e

tldr:
Power: 2646 vs 2498
Crit Chance: 57% vs 64%

You can draw your own conclusions. % modifers alone favor Beserker.

Meta is all about the best. THere is no deviation from it. You can’t substitute/change and still be considered the best.

You can learn just as good in ‘Zerker gear as you can in Knights/Soldiers because of the one shot mechanics in this game. Therefore, Meta ’Zerker is the only gear you need, learning or not. I personally don’t like this sentimentality, but it is what it is.

If you look at the Meta builds and their “variety” they are pretty much geared and built the same way. DPS, DPS, DPS. That’s all that matters. And that’s what’s disappointing about this game. Sure there’s a little variety (3-4 weapons, a trait point switch here and there), but when you step back away from the Meta builds and look at what the proffession, what each profession, has available as a whole, it is disappointing at what’s effective and what is not because there’s a lot not being used.

????????????
I talked about an Hammer build, Mesmer reflect build, solo play, etc. And you present me with the great GS+Sw/F build???????

Someone who say that there is only 1 possibility for each profession and that if you ever do something else than that, then you suck is as frustrating as ppl that say that AH staff Guardian is good in PvE. Tell me oh master of master what is the true BEST AND UNIQUE build that I should use on my guardian?

- Should I use UC? Because if you use aegis to block, you decrease you dps and then 4/6/2/0/2 is now not the best dps.
- So i should use 6/6/2/0/0 then no? More dps in these situation right.
- But you dodge man, when you dodge you make less dps right. What if my team have a hard time meleing Arcdiviner for the whole fight? A Hammer build can do 97% of a Sw/F build. Does sacrificing 3% of your personnal dps to get almost constant protection will give my team a fair chance to full melee that boss up to the end? If i can allow my whole team to max their DPS, why should I limit myself to the Sw/F when the hammer build will make my team better?
- What if I end up in a party without any might stacking??? The party is not bad, but still no might. Hammer camping is about 95% DPS of a GS + Sw/F build, but you can take a staff and stack might just before a fight and then switch to hammer and never get back to the staff during that fight. A 10sec where you gonna boost by a good margin the dps of your team, while sacrificing only 5% of your dps. Why should I do that.
- Ok, well if you fight big slow bosses like AC graveling bosses or Lupi where smite can hit all 10 times? You kind of have a higher dps than a GS +Sw/F build man. Not by much, but hey DPS DPS DPS man.
- What sigil should i use? DPS DPS DPS man so I’m sure you have a set of weapon for each fractal and dungeon possible right? Night + Nigthmare slaying for TA, Force + Outlaw slaying for CM right?
- But wait, Bloodlust will be better once you get to 25 stack right. So you should always use BL? What about short dungeon where you will only max the stack for the end of the dungeon, so you had less DPS for the whole duration of the dungeon. Which one is best? Should I choice different one depending on the dungeon? I’m not a god that NEVER die so maybe BL is not the best option even if you’ll get the most DPS out of it.
- What food? Buttersquash right. But seaweed Salad is a 10% dmg incease, that more DPS right. So we should always use seaweed? I mean on a guardian you can always move while dpsing so.

Ya your right there is only 1 true answer guys. kitten , now i’m exicted. Lonewolf Kai will tell us what is the ONE TRUE BUILD to rule them all. I think i pee a little.

Thaddeauz [xQCx]- QC GUILD

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Posted by: Lonewolf Kai.3682

Lonewolf Kai.3682

I talked about an Hammer build, Mesmer reflect build, solo play, etc. And you present me with the great GS+Sw/F build?

Someone who say that there is only 1 possibility for each profession and that if you ever do something else than that, then you suck is as frustrating as ppl that say that AH staff Guardian is good in PvE. Tell me oh master of master what is the true BEST AND UNIQUE build that I should use on my guardian?

-snip-

I stopped reading after this part because you’ve obviously missed the point. Reason is because you’re concentrating on the details.

To paraphrase a Bruce Lee film:
When someone points to the moon, don’t concentrate on the finger or you’ll miss the heavenly glory.

Let me point to the moon once again:
“…when you step back away from the Meta builds and look at what the proffession, what each profession, has available as a whole, it is disappointing at what’s effective and what is not because there’s a lot not being used.”

Also, the point to the one build I posted was to show the differences in Beserker and Assasssins. That’s it.

“Be like water” – Bruce Lee

(edited by Lonewolf Kai.3682)

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

I get what you’re saying Lonewolf. We have all these healing tools that really don’t get used. We have aegis shatter builds that look like they could have some synergy but in the end simply don’t stack up to anything really worthwhile. Condi Guardian, it’s kinda a joke, burning is nice, but it’s inability to stack makes it pretty /meh IMO.

I liked a post by Ropechef in a similar thread the other day. He had an analogy that I thought was perfect.

It’s really due to the content. Think of it like a car race, initially we would bring 4 extra tires and an extra fuel tank. After getting through we realize we used 1 tire and only half of hte extra fuel. So the next time through we only bring 2 extra tires, and a smaller auxiliary fuel tank. Well after a dozen times through, we realize we haven’t even been using the extra tires, so we drop those. The extra fuel, if we do things right we can go without as well. So soon enough we’re down to just hte barebones of what we need racing towards the finishline as fast as possible.

Get us new content and those extra tires may become worth taking again while we work towards perfecting the new course.

Guardian heals and support is nice when you make mistakes. But, with content this well traveled and well known, the mistakes just don’t happen much, and what’s the point of healing when no damage has been taken? You just don’t need these things in perfect situations, which is all that’s left because the content is so well known.

Condi of course is a whole other issue… that’s just FUBAR in this game as far as I’m concerned. It’s an issue in every game i’ve played but I’ve never seen it worse than here honestly.

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Posted by: Lonewolf Kai.3682

Lonewolf Kai.3682

I get what you’re saying Lonewolf. We have all these healing tools that really don’t get used. We have aegis shatter builds that look like they could have some synergy but in the end simply don’t stack up to anything really worthwhile. Condi Guardian, it’s kinda a joke, burning is nice, but it’s inability to stack makes it pretty /meh IMO.

I liked a post by Ropechef in a similar thread the other day. He had an analogy that I thought was perfect.

It’s really due to the content. Think of it like a car race, initially we would bring 4 extra tires and an extra fuel tank. After getting through we realize we used 1 tire and only half of hte extra fuel. So the next time through we only bring 2 extra tires, and a smaller auxiliary fuel tank. Well after a dozen times through, we realize we haven’t even been using the extra tires, so we drop those. The extra fuel, if we do things right we can go without as well. So soon enough we’re down to just hte barebones of what we need racing towards the finishline as fast as possible.

Get us new content and those extra tires may become worth taking again while we work towards perfecting the new course.

Guardian heals and support is nice when you make mistakes. But, with content this well traveled and well known, the mistakes just don’t happen much, and what’s the point of healing when no damage has been taken? You just don’t need these things in perfect situations, which is all that’s left because the content is so well known.

Condi of course is a whole other issue… that’s just FUBAR in this game as far as I’m concerned. It’s an issue in every game i’ve played but I’ve never seen it worse than here honestly.

You pretty much nailed the head there. THanks. I love the analogy too. It makes perfect sense. I’d also include a lot of other things too in with healing, ie spirit weapons, traits, weapons, other gear choices, etc., etc. but you pretty much nailed it.

And yeah, I won’t touch on condis at this time. But you are right about other games having it much worse. I remember in one MMO where you could place a damage over time spell on a target and pretty much just run away and win. This of course got nerfed, but it was quite OP at the time.

“Be like water” – Bruce Lee

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

I get what you’re saying Lonewolf. We have all these healing tools that really don’t get used. We have aegis shatter builds that look like they could have some synergy but in the end simply don’t stack up to anything really worthwhile. Condi Guardian, it’s kinda a joke, burning is nice, but it’s inability to stack makes it pretty /meh IMO.

I liked a post by Ropechef in a similar thread the other day. He had an analogy that I thought was perfect.

It’s really due to the content. Think of it like a car race, initially we would bring 4 extra tires and an extra fuel tank. After getting through we realize we used 1 tire and only half of hte extra fuel. So the next time through we only bring 2 extra tires, and a smaller auxiliary fuel tank. Well after a dozen times through, we realize we haven’t even been using the extra tires, so we drop those. The extra fuel, if we do things right we can go without as well. So soon enough we’re down to just hte barebones of what we need racing towards the finishline as fast as possible.

Get us new content and those extra tires may become worth taking again while we work towards perfecting the new course.

Guardian heals and support is nice when you make mistakes. But, with content this well traveled and well known, the mistakes just don’t happen much, and what’s the point of healing when no damage has been taken? You just don’t need these things in perfect situations, which is all that’s left because the content is so well known.

Condi of course is a whole other issue… that’s just FUBAR in this game as far as I’m concerned. It’s an issue in every game i’ve played but I’ve never seen it worse than here honestly.

You pretty much nailed the head there. THanks. I love the analogy too. It makes perfect sense. I’d also include a lot of other things too in with healing, ie spirit weapons, traits, weapons, other gear choices, etc., etc. but you pretty much nailed it.

And yeah, I won’t touch on condis at this time. But you are right about other games having it much worse. I remember in one MMO where you could place a damage over time spell on a target and pretty much just run away and win. This of course got nerfed, but it was quite OP at the time.

Yeah, I actually only started this game like 5 months ago now. So it wasn’t long ago that I was learning dungeons. At the time my group was running support guard, ele in valkyrie, thief in valkyrie, wars/mesmer in zerk. We found the healing traits and support of a guardian to be quite useful. As we perfected our tactics and strategy I started playing with things. First I dropped AH realizing I just didn’t need it to survive and I went to a virtue build. Then I started playing with zerk gear in dungeon paths I knew I was safe on. Then I started playing with traits again realizing the full power of VoJ spam for blind. And eventually I ended up in the 33044 build that is the standard support zerk hammer build. That’s my core build at this point. When I know I don’t need condi removal I drop to 35042, when I know I don’t need consecrations I swap to UC, or if I don’t need either of those I get to play with the 55040 build. I’m a big fan of hammer so I don’t often go to the GS/SF builds but I do play with them now and then.

My point being, that it took me only like 2 months to get through most dungeon paths in zerk gear easily thanks to a lot of information out there and people who taught me how. There is power in the support guard, it’s just that once you perfect the strategies of the current PVE content you just don’t need all that defensive support, proper dodging/cc/walls/blinds/aegis has you going through unscathed in a lot of situations.

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Posted by: Dice Dragon.4326

Dice Dragon.4326

Yes but for people not interested in stacking or who have not done the stacking, healing power is pretty dang useful. I am not a guardian, but I often run full clerics EiB, and I swapped out to full zerkers with my group, and we kept wiping, note, we dont stack as we have not taken the time to watch youtube videos, we will be in the future, I just generally try and learn the content the “intended” way first. And healing power is really useful when your team isnt the best. As much as you can say “dont get hit by X, and dont stand in red circles” someone will, and it helps to have healing power for those moments.

As for “you wont be able to face tank” you can if you have enough healing, dunno about guard, but EiB build can face tank alot of content… Either way op, you have a zerkered out character, why not just use clerics because you want to? I agree with the point of not going FULL healing power. and I mean more so in traits then gear. I used to stack all the heals over time I could in my build, but it was costing me so much damage. I didnt need all the heals, so I ended up getting more power and vuln stacks and it really helped my own dps and my parties.

long story short, play what is rewarding for you, not for your teammates cause lets be honest, they are gonna kitten on you whether you run meta or not. Feels good when your friends are like “run EiB pls, I dont wanna die :’c” :>