Guild Wars 2

Obtena.7952:

Ryou.2398:

phokus.8934:

Ezrael.6859:

Obtena is just a PvE casual hero with tunnel vision.

He lacks the insight to comprehend other styles of game-play and a desire to perform in different game modes.

He just pipes along with everything is fine because he is quite happy with the 11111 hammer meta for his PvE slot. It fits his skill level.

I see him everywhere it seems like he defends everything over the smallest criticisms, id say tunnel vision is an understatement no one is assuming anything everyone here including me has played their guardians well enough to know the clear flaws in the class right now.

Just because a person plays Guardian well enough to know the flaws doesn’t mean they know the game and Anet well enough to suggest how to fix it. Most of the ideas we get from players are at best, significantly changing the concept of the class or skill; always a non-starter … the concept is everything. Tunnel vision is there because frankly, the classes aren’t that complex. GW2 is a pretty simple game for rather average people. That’s its success.

Probably a worthless anecdote to you people but I played burn Guardian in PVP WAY back .. .when everyone said it sucked. But the funny thing was that everyone I played against had no idea how to deal with it because it was new to them. Was it the best? No, but it didn’t have to be; I was rather surprised as my success rate.

The point is that you can’t really be very successful in PVP if you and everyone else play the same build because even the average PVPer won’t think “Oh there is a Guardian, what will he do?”, they will think “Oh, there is a medi trapper Guardian, I know EXACTLY what his tricks are” and they will counter you as best possible.

Where do I come in with tunnel vision? because Anet sets that expectation with all of us; they tell us we are in a good spot, so only through that can I think “well, this is pretty much what we have to work with”. Granted, that was a long time ago they said that, maybe they will come up with some great things, but why set yourself up for disappointment? I predict there will be 3-4 minor/cosmetic changes on Tuesday.

Just because you do not think they dont know the game or like their ideas does not make it true either, ive seen plenty of great ideas through here very reasonable in all class boards in fact people have been nothing but reasonable in the past 6 months when it comes to many builds, some are bad suggestions but for the most part have good ideas in them, here you go again with your I cannot handle anyone elses opinion.

And there is never an excuse for tunnel vision lol thats a flaw in you when it comes to the game it isnt about just the game.

Maybe you did I didnt play a guardian then, im not even sure I played the game then but people who claim these things never make a video or have any actual proof, I personally dont think everything needs proof but when it comes to these claims and not one person can prove it saids something doesnt it?

No the point is people want build diversity, they want traits updated, they want more weapons to be effective in all modes, they dont want to be shoehorned into three or 4 weapon choices, and 2 playstyle builds. Yea your right about if everyone knows your build they will counter it but that does not mean those builds are very good and dont need updating and arent far weaker then they should be. And this is not something you said at all, you where trying to say they dont need these things because the lack of player skill.

blocks. gets stuns anyway and dies
goes back out. blocks, dies again.
goes back out and blocks again, dies to 100 blades. defeated by a warrior made on the level 80 boost. 20 mins into warrior and chill and i notice warrior has most of the guardian skills, just 50x better then guardian skills. but cause i know guardian is in a good place, i stick to it. and hope they update mace. a support wep. maybe then guardian will be A-ok guys. seen a video of a druid almost on afk as he skillessly tanks 2 enemies. and here i am in the back with my guardian visual fix feeling completely up to date on all the latest skills like attacking into people who have block. and CC immune. maybe this was a learning curve. maybe guardian was harder then i thought when i started it. well im down the track along way. and nothing has really improved for us. so after countless times of being told “we don’t need you” in raid parties. not really feeling the love yo. maybe one of the staff should main a guardian for awile. then you might know what it needs. should of spent my time on a warrior. time wasted

phokus.8934:

I know someone who knows someone who’s robbed someone that said DH is going to get amazing buffs and be part of the meta.

You heard it here first.

I want to believe. I really really do.

I just cant. Burnt too many times.

Sandzibar.5134:

phokus.8934:

I know someone who knows someone who’s robbed someone that said DH is going to get amazing buffs and be part of the meta.

You heard it here first.

I want to believe. I really really do.

I just cant. Burnt too many times.

Have faith one last time.

Our dreams will become realities and some of our realities become dreams.

Lahmia.2193:

At the risk of sounding ignorant, what needs fixing?

Scepter
Sword
Torch5 should also cleanse conditions from you.
Kindled zeal
Symbolic power
Expeditious spirit
Retribution
Perfect inscriptions
Radiant retaliation
Strength of the fallen
Altruistic healing
Protectors impact
Writ the persistence
Retaliatory subconscious
Dulled senses
Zealot’s aggression
Bulwark

Ryou.2398:

Obtena.7952:

Ryou.2398:

phokus.8934:

Ezrael.6859:

Obtena is just a PvE casual hero with tunnel vision.

He lacks the insight to comprehend other styles of game-play and a desire to perform in different game modes.

He just pipes along with everything is fine because he is quite happy with the 11111 hammer meta for his PvE slot. It fits his skill level.

I see him everywhere it seems like he defends everything over the smallest criticisms, id say tunnel vision is an understatement no one is assuming anything everyone here including me has played their guardians well enough to know the clear flaws in the class right now.

Just because a person plays Guardian well enough to know the flaws doesn’t mean they know the game and Anet well enough to suggest how to fix it. Most of the ideas we get from players are at best, significantly changing the concept of the class or skill; always a non-starter … the concept is everything. Tunnel vision is there because frankly, the classes aren’t that complex. GW2 is a pretty simple game for rather average people. That’s its success.

Probably a worthless anecdote to you people but I played burn Guardian in PVP WAY back .. .when everyone said it sucked. But the funny thing was that everyone I played against had no idea how to deal with it because it was new to them. Was it the best? No, but it didn’t have to be; I was rather surprised as my success rate.

The point is that you can’t really be very successful in PVP if you and everyone else play the same build because even the average PVPer won’t think “Oh there is a Guardian, what will he do?”, they will think “Oh, there is a medi trapper Guardian, I know EXACTLY what his tricks are” and they will counter you as best possible.

Where do I come in with tunnel vision? because Anet sets that expectation with all of us; they tell us we are in a good spot, so only through that can I think “well, this is pretty much what we have to work with”. Granted, that was a long time ago they said that, maybe they will come up with some great things, but why set yourself up for disappointment? I predict there will be 3-4 minor/cosmetic changes on Tuesday.

Just because you do not think they dont know the game or like their ideas does not make it true either, ive seen plenty of great ideas through here very reasonable in all class boards in fact people have been nothing but reasonable in the past 6 months when it comes to many builds, some are bad suggestions but for the most part have good ideas in them, here you go again with your I cannot handle anyone elses opinion.

I did not say there wasn’t some great ideas, I said most of those ideas aren’t inline with the concept of the class and won’t get implemented because of it. Oh and one other thing that makes me think I’m right: I don’t see Anet rushing to implement player ideas either. If what you say is true, that would be happening quite a bit, yet most patches we get a void of anything player-driven or even player-desired. No, I think if Anet is listening to players, it’s not for their suggestions on how to change skills, it’s something else.

Regon Phoenix.8215:

Lahmia.2193:

At the risk of sounding ignorant, what needs fixing?

Scepter
Sword
Torch5 should also cleanse conditions from you.
Kindled zeal
Symbolic power
Expeditious spirit
Retribution
Perfect inscriptions
Radiant retaliation
Strength of the fallen
Altruistic healing
Protectors impact
Writ the persistence
Retaliatory subconscious
Dulled senses
Zealot’s aggression
Bulwark

I think one of our biggest problems is Healing Power scales horribly.
The reason support guardian has disappeared from the meta is, though damage output has doubled full clerics moves your regen from 100/sec to 300/sec..
Nerfed since beta.

LetoII.3782:

I think one of our biggest problems is Healing Power scales horribly.
The reason support guardian has disappeared from the meta is, though damage output has doubled full clerics moves your regen from 100/sec to 300/sec..
Nerfed since beta.

damage is doubled, from 100% – 200%

full clerics pushes regen from 100% – 300%

I know what you were trying to do, but it didn’t look very supportive of your argument.

Obtena.7952:

I don’t see Anet rushing to implement player ideas either. If what you say is true, that would be happening quite a bit, yet most patches we get a void of anything player-driven or even player-desired.

That’s not exactly true. Most of the DH nerfs were extremely player-driven and definitely desired by certain parts of the community. Problem with most of the buff suggestions it’s not a matter of just tweaking some numbers. Most proper guardian “fixes” or “buffs” means redesigning skills or rearranging traits. Something that requires quite a bit of dev time.

Now it’s only a question if anet actually sees it as enough of an issue to allocate the necessary resources to fixing it. My money is on that it’s not gonna happen. I honestly don’t see this class becoming relevant until the next elite spec.

Ghotistyx.6942:

LetoII.3782:

I think one of our biggest problems is Healing Power scales horribly.
The reason support guardian has disappeared from the meta is, though damage output has doubled full clerics moves your regen from 100/sec to 300/sec..
Nerfed since beta.

damage is doubled, from 100% – 200%

full clerics pushes regen from 100% – 300%

I know what you were trying to do, but it didn’t look very supportive of your argument.

Our healing power has had the same scaling since launch.
Damage has enjoyed significant power creep.

Not sure how regen is a percentage and not actual healing applied? Not my quote

cranos.5913:

Obtena.7952:

I don’t see Anet rushing to implement player ideas either. If what you say is true, that would be happening quite a bit, yet most patches we get a void of anything player-driven or even player-desired.

That’s not exactly true. Most of the DH nerfs were extremely player-driven and definitely desired by certain parts of the community. Problem with most of the buff suggestions it’s not a matter of just tweaking some numbers. Most proper guardian “fixes” or “buffs” means redesigning skills or rearranging traits. Something that requires quite a bit of dev time.

Now it’s only a question if anet actually sees it as enough of an issue to allocate the necessary resources to fixing it. My money is on that it’s not gonna happen. I honestly don’t see this class becoming relevant until the next elite spec.

I’m talking about suggestions for how to change skills, not if they should be changed or not. My apologies for not being more clear. Hence my very last sentence of the post I made. I do believe Anet does listen to players, but they don’t implement their ideas directly for how skills should be changed.

I don’t think that there is much value in putting resources into make things that don’t work well better; especially if there is alternatives; some people accuse me of tunnel vision; I’m just realistic. That’s probably my biggest disappointment with how Anet has proceeded with fixes in the past; just seems it’s never done well the first time and each need a few kicks at the can. The last attempt to buff spirit weapons was a good example of that. They just didn’t quite get them to the point where they find a place in people’s builds. They won’t get there unless Anet look at them at least one more, maybe two more times.

Obtena.7952:

.

I don’t think that there is much value in putting resources into make things that don’t work well better; especially if there is alternatives; some people accuse me of tunnel vision; I’m just realistic. That’s probably my biggest disappointment with how Anet has proceeded with fixes in the past; just seems it’s never done well the first time and each need a few kicks at the can. The last attempt to buff spirit weapons was a good example of that. They just didn’t quite get them to the point where they find a place in people’s builds. They won’t get there unless Anet look at them at least one more, maybe two more times.

You make some logical arguments here. I would like to add though that the last attempt at buffing spirit weapons wasn’t necessarily a whole-hearted or focused buff, but rather just ANet making the old spirit weapon traits fit into the new trait system. There was also that buff that made spirit weapons take greatly reduced damage in pve but alas it did nothing for spirit weps in wvw or spvp.

I would somewhat disagree with your first point though. I think there is a value in fixing what does not work well. Realistically though, since any class with underperforming utilities has other viable options, ANet probably figures the class can last for a while on these and places low priority on fixing those underperformers. I think this is a fairly good plan of action but the problem is how long they wait to fix those underperformers. 2 months? We’re peachy. 2 years? Not cool.

Honestly, based on my own experience with other MMO’s, skills that need improvement or change are years in the making, sometimes they are never addressed. I have concluded that this is likely because it’s folly to attempt to make every class balanced according to every other by continuous making adjustments to skills.

I do want to make sure I was clear; there is value, just not very much IMO. You can change a skill, make it good, then something happens, like an expansion or a meta shift or whatever … chasing meta is just not a good strategy and that’s most of the reason people use to justify whatever FOTM fix they are asking for.

Obtena.7952:

Ryou.2398:

Obtena.7952:

Ryou.2398:

phokus.8934:

Ezrael.6859:

Obtena is just a PvE casual hero with tunnel vision.

He lacks the insight to comprehend other styles of game-play and a desire to perform in different game modes.

He just pipes along with everything is fine because he is quite happy with the 11111 hammer meta for his PvE slot. It fits his skill level.

I see him everywhere it seems like he defends everything over the smallest criticisms, id say tunnel vision is an understatement no one is assuming anything everyone here including me has played their guardians well enough to know the clear flaws in the class right now.

Just because a person plays Guardian well enough to know the flaws doesn’t mean they know the game and Anet well enough to suggest how to fix it. Most of the ideas we get from players are at best, significantly changing the concept of the class or skill; always a non-starter … the concept is everything. Tunnel vision is there because frankly, the classes aren’t that complex. GW2 is a pretty simple game for rather average people. That’s its success.

Probably a worthless anecdote to you people but I played burn Guardian in PVP WAY back .. .when everyone said it sucked. But the funny thing was that everyone I played against had no idea how to deal with it because it was new to them. Was it the best? No, but it didn’t have to be; I was rather surprised as my success rate.

The point is that you can’t really be very successful in PVP if you and everyone else play the same build because even the average PVPer won’t think “Oh there is a Guardian, what will he do?”, they will think “Oh, there is a medi trapper Guardian, I know EXACTLY what his tricks are” and they will counter you as best possible.

Where do I come in with tunnel vision? because Anet sets that expectation with all of us; they tell us we are in a good spot, so only through that can I think “well, this is pretty much what we have to work with”. Granted, that was a long time ago they said that, maybe they will come up with some great things, but why set yourself up for disappointment? I predict there will be 3-4 minor/cosmetic changes on Tuesday.

Just because you do not think they dont know the game or like their ideas does not make it true either, ive seen plenty of great ideas through here very reasonable in all class boards in fact people have been nothing but reasonable in the past 6 months when it comes to many builds, some are bad suggestions but for the most part have good ideas in them, here you go again with your I cannot handle anyone elses opinion.

I did not say there wasn’t some great ideas, I said most of those ideas aren’t inline with the concept of the class and won’t get implemented because of it. Oh and one other thing that makes me think I’m right: I don’t see Anet rushing to implement player ideas either. If what you say is true, that would be happening quite a bit, yet most patches we get a void of anything player-driven or even player-desired. No, I think if Anet is listening to players, it’s not for their suggestions on how to change skills, it’s something else.

So your trying to say player complaint has no influence on nerfs and classes not getting updated? LOL…

Ryou.2398:

So your trying to say player complaint has no influence on nerfs and classes not getting updated? LOL…

I’m quite certain that aegis being added to shield #4 was something specifically frequently requested by players, and then that was added. Then at the time he referred to that (very well-received) change as “misdirected”, if I recall correctly.

Ryou.2398:

Obtena.7952:

Ryou.2398:

Obtena.7952:

Ryou.2398:

phokus.8934:

Ezrael.6859:

Obtena is just a PvE casual hero with tunnel vision.

He lacks the insight to comprehend other styles of game-play and a desire to perform in different game modes.

He just pipes along with everything is fine because he is quite happy with the 11111 hammer meta for his PvE slot. It fits his skill level.

I see him everywhere it seems like he defends everything over the smallest criticisms, id say tunnel vision is an understatement no one is assuming anything everyone here including me has played their guardians well enough to know the clear flaws in the class right now.

Just because a person plays Guardian well enough to know the flaws doesn’t mean they know the game and Anet well enough to suggest how to fix it. Most of the ideas we get from players are at best, significantly changing the concept of the class or skill; always a non-starter … the concept is everything. Tunnel vision is there because frankly, the classes aren’t that complex. GW2 is a pretty simple game for rather average people. That’s its success.

Probably a worthless anecdote to you people but I played burn Guardian in PVP WAY back .. .when everyone said it sucked. But the funny thing was that everyone I played against had no idea how to deal with it because it was new to them. Was it the best? No, but it didn’t have to be; I was rather surprised as my success rate.

The point is that you can’t really be very successful in PVP if you and everyone else play the same build because even the average PVPer won’t think “Oh there is a Guardian, what will he do?”, they will think “Oh, there is a medi trapper Guardian, I know EXACTLY what his tricks are” and they will counter you as best possible.

Where do I come in with tunnel vision? because Anet sets that expectation with all of us; they tell us we are in a good spot, so only through that can I think “well, this is pretty much what we have to work with”. Granted, that was a long time ago they said that, maybe they will come up with some great things, but why set yourself up for disappointment? I predict there will be 3-4 minor/cosmetic changes on Tuesday.

Just because you do not think they dont know the game or like their ideas does not make it true either, ive seen plenty of great ideas through here very reasonable in all class boards in fact people have been nothing but reasonable in the past 6 months when it comes to many builds, some are bad suggestions but for the most part have good ideas in them, here you go again with your I cannot handle anyone elses opinion.

I did not say there wasn’t some great ideas, I said most of those ideas aren’t inline with the concept of the class and won’t get implemented because of it. Oh and one other thing that makes me think I’m right: I don’t see Anet rushing to implement player ideas either. If what you say is true, that would be happening quite a bit, yet most patches we get a void of anything player-driven or even player-desired. No, I think if Anet is listening to players, it’s not for their suggestions on how to change skills, it’s something else.

So your trying to say player complaint has no influence on nerfs and classes not getting updated? LOL…

No, I didn’t say anything like that, but there is obviously no reason to explain to you for the third time what I am trying to say since it seems your more interesting in inventing my words for me. At least I won’t be the one disappointed by tomorrow’s patch.

Obtena.7952:

Ryou.2398:

Obtena.7952:

Ryou.2398:

Obtena.7952:

Ryou.2398:

phokus.8934:

Ezrael.6859:

Obtena is just a PvE casual hero with tunnel vision.

He lacks the insight to comprehend other styles of game-play and a desire to perform in different game modes.

He just pipes along with everything is fine because he is quite happy with the 11111 hammer meta for his PvE slot. It fits his skill level.

I see him everywhere it seems like he defends everything over the smallest criticisms, id say tunnel vision is an understatement no one is assuming anything everyone here including me has played their guardians well enough to know the clear flaws in the class right now.

Just because a person plays Guardian well enough to know the flaws doesn’t mean they know the game and Anet well enough to suggest how to fix it. Most of the ideas we get from players are at best, significantly changing the concept of the class or skill; always a non-starter … the concept is everything. Tunnel vision is there because frankly, the classes aren’t that complex. GW2 is a pretty simple game for rather average people. That’s its success.

Probably a worthless anecdote to you people but I played burn Guardian in PVP WAY back .. .when everyone said it sucked. But the funny thing was that everyone I played against had no idea how to deal with it because it was new to them. Was it the best? No, but it didn’t have to be; I was rather surprised as my success rate.

The point is that you can’t really be very successful in PVP if you and everyone else play the same build because even the average PVPer won’t think “Oh there is a Guardian, what will he do?”, they will think “Oh, there is a medi trapper Guardian, I know EXACTLY what his tricks are” and they will counter you as best possible.

Where do I come in with tunnel vision? because Anet sets that expectation with all of us; they tell us we are in a good spot, so only through that can I think “well, this is pretty much what we have to work with”. Granted, that was a long time ago they said that, maybe they will come up with some great things, but why set yourself up for disappointment? I predict there will be 3-4 minor/cosmetic changes on Tuesday.

Just because you do not think they dont know the game or like their ideas does not make it true either, ive seen plenty of great ideas through here very reasonable in all class boards in fact people have been nothing but reasonable in the past 6 months when it comes to many builds, some are bad suggestions but for the most part have good ideas in them, here you go again with your I cannot handle anyone elses opinion.

I did not say there wasn’t some great ideas, I said most of those ideas aren’t inline with the concept of the class and won’t get implemented because of it. Oh and one other thing that makes me think I’m right: I don’t see Anet rushing to implement player ideas either. If what you say is true, that would be happening quite a bit, yet most patches we get a void of anything player-driven or even player-desired. No, I think if Anet is listening to players, it’s not for their suggestions on how to change skills, it’s something else.

So your trying to say player complaint has no influence on nerfs and classes not getting updated? LOL…

No, I didn’t say anything like that, but there is obviously no reason to explain to you for the third time what I am trying to say since it seems your more interesting in inventing my words for me. At least I won’t be the one disappointed by tomorrow’s patch.

No you didnt explain twice you just tried to justify your opinion, everyone here basically disagrees with you here for the most part anyways. I certainly dont have to agree with you, your opinions just dont make sense. And good for you, I didnt anything about being dissapointed.

Well, I will leave that to a comprehension issue then. I don’t think I could be more clear. I’m not here to get a whole bunch of people to agree with me but that certainly doesn’t make my opinion not make sense. In fact, I think it’s pretty simple; the class concept determines balance focus and the fact is that players aren’t as good at interpreting the class concept, the game mechanics and developer’s intent to make good suggestions for how things could change better than the actual developers can. That’s why I believe you don’t see a large number of player ideas implemented. Why do I think that? From watching game devs implement ‘balance’ in MMO’s for over 10 years; other MMO’s aren’t different.

Maybe if you didn’t sit around and incorrectly interpret my posts as ridiculous quips, you could understand it yourself.

Pro Tip: MMO designers don’t actually want to achieve perfect balance. Perfect balance makes for a dead game. Constant change is needed to keep things fresh.

The devs do actually make a lot of changes based on player feedback. Aegis on Shield 4 and Boons on Traps are two recent examples for the guardian. However, the devs aren’t going to take most of the suggestions into consideration because they’re just plain terrible. The suggestions you find on the forums are more likely than not absolutely horrible. Either that or the actually good suggestions require just a bit too much for them to be worth implementing. Also, sometimes the community might “agree” they all want something (like +25% movement speed) because they think it’ll fix all their problems. Those problems are likely caused by deeper factors, and changes might be to those sources. When it looks like the change does nothing, it might actually be what we needed all along.

Also don’t forget, changes to other classes affects our performance in other areas. If Thieves suddenly get buffed in pvp, we become more important because Guardians historically have countered Thieves. If (non-bunker) Mesmers suddenly get more used in pvp, then Thieves will be more present, because Thieves historically have countered Mesmers. Sometimes, a significant change to one class will make another significant impact to other classes way down the line. Balance changes affect so much more of the game than people expect. Sometimes what seems reasonable might actually upset the balance worse than before.

But in short; Yes the devs read and hear our suggestions. There’s evidence for it. But just because they hear it doesn’t mean they have to do anything about it. They have much more data on the game than our anecdotes, and humans are more prone to remember a bad situation than remember all the good. Ask a pvper how often they might win. Without looking at the data, they’ll claim its around 50% when the data will show 66%.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Pro Tip: MMO designers don’t actually want to achieve perfect balance. Perfect balance makes for a dead game. Constant change is needed to keep things fresh.

If perfect balance was achieved, then all skills and builds would be viable in every game mode and build diversity would skyrocket. Making your game imbalanced for the purpose of “shaking things up” is lazy as hell and a cheap bandaid solution to a serious problem. The latter is what ANet does since they can’t be bothered to balance weak skills or split skills across game modes in order to achieve a better state of balance and diversity in gameplay.

tl;dr: Perfect balance will never be a bad thing.

Fashion Mage.3712:

Ghotistyx.6942:

Pro Tip: MMO designers don’t actually want to achieve perfect balance. Perfect balance makes for a dead game. Constant change is needed to keep things fresh.

If perfect balance was achieved, then all skills and builds would be viable in every game mode and build diversity would skyrocket. Making your game imbalanced for the purpose of “shaking things up” is lazy as hell and a cheap bandaid solution to a serious problem. The latter is what ANet does since they can’t be bothered to balance weak skills or split skills across game modes in order to achieve a better state of balance and diversity in gameplay.

tl;dr: Perfect balance will never be a bad thing.

Still in “that perfect balance” imagining it is possible suchh achievement.. skills could be rotated as meta just required more skill from part of players, still rock paper scizor would force teams to rotate while fighthitng.

The gap between builds on overbuffed classes and others is to much and has been keep raising, that is what makes some builds outdated.
Anet overboost to much some classes, (there is alot of players being carried by builds).

Game isnt that big to loose control on class balance.

Obtena.7952:

It’s not me you disagree with, it’s Anet; they established the class is in a good place, not me. The lack of critical thinking is the correlation maked by cherrypicking a few under performing skills and observing there are unhappy players and concluding the class doesn’t hit Anet’s desired performance target based on those things.

On the other hand, it’s not hard to see that even though there are some under performing skills and unhappy people, the class can skill hit whatever performance targets Anet may have. Furthermore, there are other classes that people would consider quite good, and those classes also have some under performing skills and unhappy people. In conclusion, some under performing skills and unhappy people should not make anyone that has applied critical thinking to the topic to conclude Guardians don’t meet Anet’s targets or that those two things are necessarily significant factors to a classes ability make those targets.

Yea but you aren’t a mouth for anet, so why take the stance like you understand exactly what the developers are thinking?

What I said is completely reasonable, signets, spirit weapons and to a degree consecrations have been hot garbage since launch. That is almost 4 years of being garbage. I don’t know about you man, but that is a long kitten time. And that isn’t just a “few” skills. Its actually quite a lot, plus the traits associated with them. I didn’t even bother to mention weapon sets either.

When you have system mechanics that give the player choice on how to build and play their character, but many of the choices aren’t choices at all but “why would I use this over this”. Then there is a problem with design. Its understandable if there is just a skill here and there that isn’t very practical, but guardian as well as every other class have a lot of skills and traits that just aren’t viable choices but fillers.

With the way they balance the game skills, it seems to me that its overwhelming to them. Even though its significantly less than GW1, they have done a worse job at presenting realistic choices between skills and traits. They would be better off creating a very limited and closed skill system than having what we use today.

An exciting day where DH becomes part of the meta.

Scepter is getting a symbol in symbol of punishment, weee!

And it looks like Sword 2 is getting a symbol as well…

Teleport to your target, striking them and blinding nearby foes. Drop a symbol at your feet that damages nearby enemies and benefits allies.

Make it or break it patch for me. Dropping the game is possible…

Symbol on two weapons are not enough, but it’s a good start.

Kam.4092:

CptAurellian.9537:

To add some PvE stuff, guardians are utterly screwed in 81+ fractals.

This caused me to start playing a Revenant.

lol, you are playing a revenant in high scale fractals? You do realize power builds are trash in T4, right?

If you’re gonna reroll FOTM, at least try necro.

Aza.2105:

Obtena.7952:

It’s not me you disagree with, it’s Anet; they established the class is in a good place, not me. The lack of critical thinking is the correlation maked by cherrypicking a few under performing skills and observing there are unhappy players and concluding the class doesn’t hit Anet’s desired performance target based on those things.

On the other hand, it’s not hard to see that even though there are some under performing skills and unhappy people, the class can skill hit whatever performance targets Anet may have. Furthermore, there are other classes that people would consider quite good, and those classes also have some under performing skills and unhappy people. In conclusion, some under performing skills and unhappy people should not make anyone that has applied critical thinking to the topic to conclude Guardians don’t meet Anet’s targets or that those two things are necessarily significant factors to a classes ability make those targets.

Yea but you aren’t a mouth for anet, so why take the stance like you understand exactly what the developers are thinking?

I don’t know what they are thinking, but I do know how they are thinking.

You know what, every patch, including this one only convinces me more and more than I’m not too far off about my theory on how class balance happens .. what is everyone else waiting for? Still clinging to ideas that balance is determined by assessments between classes? Continue to be disappointed EVERY patch then.

Symbols on sword and scepter … FINALLY. Those weapons were deficient as Guardian weapons from day 1 and Anet knew it.

Weren’t you the one who said symbols on the sword/scepter would be overpowered and that you doubt ANet would implement it?

Fashion Mage.3712:

Weren’t you the one who said symbols on the sword/scepter would be overpowered and that you doubt ANet would implement it?

I don’t remember in all honesty. Frankly, I always thought it was stupid that Scepter didn’t have a symbol, even though it had an effect that acted just like one and I never thought sword was that good for the class without more ‘Guardian-like’ effects on it. If I did say that, I would love to know the context.

PS .. I found a thread where there was a discussion about making symbols mobile to your character over 3 years ago. I will keep looking though.

Found this though: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Please-Buff-Swords/first#post1329901

So, since that’s 3 years ago, I would say I never considered a symbol on sword to be OPed. Probably not the Scepter either. If you’re really keen, you can look through my post history.

Hmm, I must have the wrong person then, my bad.