Guild Wars 2

Is there any builds that utilize these 2 skills?

I really like using a sword/focus combo and i noticed these 2 traits and i was wondering if there was anything that utilizes these 2 skills. I mainly play PVE and do dungeons and occasionally do Eotm but thats not really a thing i do often mainly PVE.

I tried it once. The AoE radius is so small that unless your enemies are stack on top of eachother, it won’t hit them all. Not very good outside of PvE and even then it’s not the best way to deal damage.

It sounded cool but doesn’t live up to it.

Aedrion.6483:

I tried it once. The AoE radius is so small that unless your enemies are stack on top of eachother, it won’t hit them all. Not very good outside of PvE and even then it’s not the best way to deal damage.

It sounded cool but doesn’t live up to it.

Well from what i can tell it has the AOE size of Purging flames and thats actually a pretty decent size so it cant be all that bad? as a Sword/focus guardian shouldn’t be too hard to close the distance.

But still that leaves my question open if there are any builds that utilize them mainly for PVE content.

Permeating wrath is bad,bad, bad. The AOE is awful and you went so deep into virtues for it.

Supreme justice is actually alright but outside of solo it suffers from the typical problems of condi limit.

In short, no.

Probably the best you could do is 6/x/x/x/6 with Amplified Wrath, Permeating Wrath, and Supreme Justice with a greatsword and probably sword/focus swap. Carrion armor and Flame Legion Runes. You’ll work pretty much just like the Hybrid medi guards, but with consecrations and whatever else you feel like. You won’t be overtaking speedclear builds with it, but you will set everything on fire which will be nice if you need to aoe a ton of trash.

Its not the best performing build for many things, but it will make you Trogdor, and that’s always nice.

I would treat Permeating Wrath as another method to cause perma burn aoe. It isn’t bad if you’re attacking with GS and staying in melee range all the time.

The question is, do you want to be constantly in melee range with GS, procing F1 burns or rely on Purging Flames and Judge’s Intervention to recieve perma burn durations?

What they say is true, unfortunately.

I want to make something “like” this work:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQJARWlsApVoNDxSI8DNR8Ql9Y0izoVdQ1BQD8oA-TBiAABJcEAAc/BofAAJqLAgLBwpq/IpSQxU+RKgFVWB-e

Idea would be lots of AOE burning, doing somewhere between 947-1280 damage a tick. Burning duration has increased 100% so you get 2 ticks of burning per proc of VoJ

Whirling wrath would proc approximately 30 seconds of burning on a group of 5 (potential 28,410-38,400 burning damage in 30 seconds)

Staff provides might stacks to increase burning damage for “burst”.

Rune of the Mad King does Hunter’s Call on 3 targets in a large range (about 1200 meter radius, with line of sight) striking 17 times each. that is potentially 51 hits, procing VoJ 17 times, providing 34 seconds of burning (32,198-43,520 burning damage).

Those two abilities sound GREAT…on paper.

Then you realize there are condition cleanses and this build is only “useful” in wvw, and even then its a gimick.

PvE conditions are normally not fast enough to matter, sPvP you can’t obtain the stat combination and 2x burning procs without sacrificing the trait points.

The biggest draw back to the condi guardian, you sacrifice so many trait points to obtain this “awesome” power, that you lose any and all survival traits. Your own condition cleansing is weak and you have no sustain via monks focus or altruistic healing. This means you rely purely on your heal skill, which won’t get you too far alone.

Even then in wvw, the mass amounts of retaliation would probably kill you if you tried to pop the elite with mad king. (51 hits * 233 retal damage = 11,883 damage back to yourself).

Until trait points are realigned and trait synergies like these become more obtainable, we won’t see a lot of build diversity beyond pure defensive cleric and pure offensive zerker.

Unless someone has a way to “break the meta”…I been trying with no success

I have done a 60206 build to some success.. However even in a wvw zerg it is VERY difficult to make good use of permeating wrath. the aoe is a little bit tiny to really be effective.

CMF.5461:

What they say is true, unfortunately.

I want to make something “like” this work:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQJARWlsApVoNDxSI8DNR8Ql9Y0izoVdQ1BQD8oA-TBiAABJcEAAc/BofAAJqLAgLBwpq/IpSQxU+RKgFVWB-e

Idea would be lots of AOE burning, doing somewhere between 947-1280 damage a tick. Burning duration has increased 100% so you get 2 ticks of burning per proc of VoJ

Whirling wrath would proc approximately 30 seconds of burning on a group of 5 (potential 28,410-38,400 burning damage in 30 seconds)

Staff provides might stacks to increase burning damage for “burst”.

Rune of the Mad King does Hunter’s Call on 3 targets in a large range (about 1200 meter radius, with line of sight) striking 17 times each. that is potentially 51 hits, procing VoJ 17 times, providing 34 seconds of burning (32,198-43,520 burning damage).

Those two abilities sound GREAT…on paper.

Then you realize there are condition cleanses and this build is only “useful” in wvw, and even then its a gimick.

PvE conditions are normally not fast enough to matter, sPvP you can’t obtain the stat combination and 2x burning procs without sacrificing the trait points.

The biggest draw back to the condi guardian, you sacrifice so many trait points to obtain this “awesome” power, that you lose any and all survival traits. Your own condition cleansing is weak and you have no sustain via monks focus or altruistic healing. This means you rely purely on your heal skill, which won’t get you too far alone.

Even then in wvw, the mass amounts of retaliation would probably kill you if you tried to pop the elite with mad king. (51 hits * 233 retal damage = 11,883 damage back to yourself).

Until trait points are realigned and trait synergies like these become more obtainable, we won’t see a lot of build diversity beyond pure defensive cleric and pure offensive zerker.

Unless someone has a way to “break the meta”…I been trying with no success

Thanks for the post.

One of the reasons i asked is because as I am using Sword and focus i have access to 3-4 blinds and can keep retaliation up almost constantly with proper skill usage and timing. I admit im still really new but it seemed like a good idea to run sword/focus and greatsword and have a ton of mobility with a little condition mixed in while the GS does most of the big damage work.

the trick for condition damage padding direct damage (at least for guardian) is to not sacrifice damage that you would normally do while specing for direct damage.

You want to do equal or better than direct damage, but condition scaling is not as effective as power scaling, so you more often than not lose out unless you can layer multiple conditions (we can not innately).

But remember condition priority and caps will hinder you.

Also you mentioned you PvE primarly, so while it sounds great, burning and conditions are not primary means of damage in pve.

Best reason to take condis right now is to maintain pressure while not in melee range to continue your primary form of damage.

I run a 6/0/0/2/6 build with Permeathing Wrath and Supreme Justice for open world PvE and WvW since Amplified Wrath was introduced. I went for celestial armor with Fire Legion Runes. Accessories are either rampager (PvE) or celestial (WvW).

My main goal is to complement my direct damage (either GS for PvE or Staff for WvW, secondary set with x/Focus) with a permanent burning while in close combat. When running celestial you most certainly need Amplified Wrath so your burns won’t be overwritten. With this set up and some +condi duration food one AA hit can apply 2s pbae burning (~ 600 damage per second unbuffed depending on accessories). As a result, your direct damage will receive a bonus of 17% (Fiery Wrath and Flame Legion Runes) most of the time.

Overall, it works quite well and I feel that I deal more damage in large scale fights than I would have done in a pure direct damage build. It’s pretty awesome for Tequatl, Silverwastes and Dry Top. It also is a lot of fun in WvW although it can be very dangerous to be in close combat all the time. As CMF mentioned, you lack trait points for defense and survivability.

As others pointed out, there might be more efficient ways to gain permanent burning (e.g. 3 in Radiance or Meditations etc.). The thing I like about 6/x/x/x/6 is that I neither rely on utility skills nor on people to die (e.g. Renewed Justice). The combination of Permeating Wrath and Supreme Justice shines with the probably highest and most reliable burning application you can get. You foes can cleanse conditions as often as they like because you’ll reapply your burning with the next hit anyway.

I’m not a fan of 6/x/x/x/6 condi, though.

Xaylin.1860:

I run a 6/0/0/2/6 build with Permeathing Wrath and Supreme Justice for open world PvE and WvW since Amplified Wrath was introduced. I went for celestial armor with Fire Legion Runes. Accessories are either rampager (PvE) or celestial (WvW).

My main goal is to complement my direct damage (either GS for PvE or Staff for WvW, secondary set with x/Focus) with a permanent burning while in close combat. When running celestial you most certainly need Amplified Wrath so your burns won’t be overwritten. With this set up and some +condi duration food one AA hit can apply 2s pbae burning (~ 600 damage per second unbuffed depending on accessories). As a result, your direct damage will receive a bonus of 17% (Fiery Wrath and Flame Legion Runes) most of the time.

Overall, it works quite well and I feel that I deal more damage in large scale fights than I would have done in a pure direct damage build. It’s pretty awesome for Tequatl, Silverwastes and Dry Top. It also is a lot of fun in WvW although it can be very dangerous to be in close combat all the time. As CMF mentioned, you lack trait points for defense and survivability.

As others pointed out, there might be more efficient ways to gain permanent burning (e.g. 3 in Radiance or Meditations etc.). The thing I like about 6/x/x/x/6 is that I neither rely on utility skills nor on people to die (e.g. Renewed Justice). The combination of Permeating Wrath and Supreme Justice shines with the probably highest and most reliable burning application you can get. You foes can cleanse conditions as often as they like because you’ll reapply your burning with the next hit anyway.

I’m not a fan of 6/x/x/x/6 condi, though.

I think i may try this.

I was just worried with going for Amplified wrath because my weapon wouldn’t be hitting as hard. But you say this isn’t a condition build though.

What traits do you run and what gear do you run while using this?

Oshelotae.4176:

Xaylin.1860:

I run a 6/0/0/2/6 build with Permeathing Wrath and Supreme Justice for open world PvE and WvW since Amplified Wrath was introduced. I went for celestial armor with Fire Legion Runes. Accessories are either rampager (PvE) or celestial (WvW).

My main goal is to complement my direct damage (either GS for PvE or Staff for WvW, secondary set with x/Focus) with a permanent burning while in close combat. When running celestial you most certainly need Amplified Wrath so your burns won’t be overwritten. With this set up and some +condi duration food one AA hit can apply 2s pbae burning (~ 600 damage per second unbuffed depending on accessories). As a result, your direct damage will receive a bonus of 17% (Fiery Wrath and Flame Legion Runes) most of the time.

Overall, it works quite well and I feel that I deal more damage in large scale fights than I would have done in a pure direct damage build. It’s pretty awesome for Tequatl, Silverwastes and Dry Top. It also is a lot of fun in WvW although it can be very dangerous to be in close combat all the time. As CMF mentioned, you lack trait points for defense and survivability.

As others pointed out, there might be more efficient ways to gain permanent burning (e.g. 3 in Radiance or Meditations etc.). The thing I like about 6/x/x/x/6 is that I neither rely on utility skills nor on people to die (e.g. Renewed Justice). The combination of Permeating Wrath and Supreme Justice shines with the probably highest and most reliable burning application you can get. You foes can cleanse conditions as often as they like because you’ll reapply your burning with the next hit anyway.

I’m not a fan of 6/x/x/x/6 condi, though.

I think i may try this.

I was just worried with going for Amplified wrath because my weapon wouldn’t be hitting as hard. But you say this isn’t a condition build though.

What traits do you run and what gear do you run while using this?

Do you rely on Purging Flames and Purity for cleansing conditions? I wouldn’t mind seeing your build too if you could link it.

Oshelotae.4176:

I think i may try this.

I was just worried with going for Amplified wrath because my weapon wouldn’t be hitting as hard. But you say this isn’t a condition build though.

What traits do you run and what gear do you run while using this?

Of course, your weapon wouldn’t hit as hard as in a zerker build. But that’s kind of self-explanatory, I guess. I shared your concerns at first but did some test-runs in the mist. A celestial / rampager mix just felt like a reasonable trade off.

There is not much room for choices when going for Amplified Wrath, Supreme Justice and Permeathing Wrath at once. My build is very close to the condi build CMF posted earlier. I just prefer a different stat set up.

Saiyan.1704:

Do you rely on Purging Flames and Purity for cleansing conditions? I wouldn’t mind seeing your build too if you could link it.

I do indeed use Purging Flames and Shouts over Meditations. With 2 “free” points left after going 6/x/x/x/6 I just don’t feel that Mediations pay off. My mobility is fine with GS and I most certainly don’t need more burning.

Most of the time I run a set up like this. Nothing too fancy or specially, really. As I said, build diversity is pretty limited when aiming for Amplified Wrath, Permeating Wrath and Supreme Justice.

I do swap weapons and utilities quite a lot (e.g.: Staff for WvW, Mace/Focus off-Hand for the vines event, Scepter/Focus off-hand for breach, Wall of Relection instead of Retreat etc.). Right now, I’m running Reaper of Grenth for fun since I rarely need Renewed Focus in PvE. Different story for WvW, of course.

[Edit]: This is the damage with brainless AA-ing with GS in pure celestial.

Permeating Flames should have been a target based PBAoE and not self based, it wouldve made staff more a more competitive weapon and give the scepter some nice ranged AoE Burn.

Vizardlorde.8243:

Permeating Flames should have been a target based PBAoE and not self based, it wouldve made staff more a more competitive weapon and give the scepter some nice ranged AoE Burn.

Scepter is so slow though i dont know if it could really take advantage of permeating wrath as well but staff would have been nice. Who knows maybe they will change it. Although to be fair i dont know what the balancing cycles are like for this game.

Sc#2 is insane for stacking burns with the traits were discussing here. So is Staff AA + Symbol.

While I agree with Vizardlorde that it would be nice to have Permeating Wrath being an area effect I came to the conclusion that it would be extremly hard to balance.

Xaylin.1860:

Sc#2 is insane for stacking burns with the traits were discussing here. So is Staff AA + Symbol.

While I agree with Vizardlorde that it would be nice to have Permeating Wrath being an area effect I came to the conclusion that it would be extremly hard to balance.

I dont really like scepter so im sorry for my mistake.

Also if i may ask im curious as to how it would be hard to balance?.

Because Permeating Wrath isn’t just aoe burns. It’s aoe perma burns, even at low burn durations.

The way I see it, if you go 6xxx6 for permeating wrath and lose 8k-10k worth of medi heals. You should trade that by doing 8-10k worth of aoe burns. But it doesn’t exactly mount up to that because
1) Permeating Wrath has limited range
2) You’ll most likely hit only 2-3 people on average regardless, being there’s hardly ever 5 on a point at a time.
3) You have to be in melee range at all times. That means you’re even more susceptible to all kinds of damage… making the 8k-10k medi heals ever more wanting to have.

If Permeating Wrath was target based, that alone would help the trait tremendously. I wouldn’t mind the trade off knowing I’ll be doing 800+ aoe burns from a distance with staff.

Saiyan.1704:

Because Permeating Wrath isn’t just aoe burns. It’s aoe perma burns, even at low burn durations.

The way I see it, if you go 6xxx6 for permeating wrath and lose 8k-10k worth of medi heals. You should trade that by doing 8-10k worth of aoe burns. But it doesn’t exactly mount up to that because
1) Permeating Wrath has limited range
2) You’ll most likely hit only 2-3 people on average regardless, being there’s hardly ever 5 on a point at a time.
3) You have to be in melee range at all times. That means you’re even more susceptible to all kinds of damage… making the 8k-10k medi heals ever more wanting to have.

If Permeating Wrath was target based, that alone would help the trait tremendously. I wouldn’t mind the trade off knowing I’ll be doing 800+ aoe burns from a distance with staff.

Hi unfortunately im still pretty new to this game but from what i gather you are saying that if permeating wrath was centered around the target instead of the player themselves it would be alot better?

Is that because you would be able to have a ranged option to proc the burns or just because trying to stay on top of a target is difficult?

I believe you are correct. It makes more sense to stack enemies together, and if the fire aoe was centered around them, it’d be more precise.

I’ve used those two traits in a medi variant, al a: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNAsfRnkIS5QWNEeDB/QmIeoyOFbxZsqA46fIIyBA-TlSBwA003wVJBjHEgZlgROlCXVm1Vpwt9HGq+DgjQApAiYZE-w

Doesn’t necessarily have to be full glass, but that’s just how I like playing it. Not having traveller runes makes it very slow though. And yes, I know litany of wrath is garbage, but it’s supposed to be a gimmick build that uses all meditations.

In any case, permeating wrath helps ensure that a cluster of enemies pull in with your greatsword will all be burning, thus getting the damage bonus from the flame legion runes and the fiery wrath trait. If you pop VoJ, the torch can be used to give the AoE burning needed for big damage on a GS burst (though usually I like throwing it at people).

The unfortunate part is that the heavy investment in both virtues and honour leave no points for radiance, and having 4 trait points in the radiance line would be so very good for this build with the VoJ enhancements. But there’s just not enough to go around.

So I feel like the garden variety of medi build is much much better than the piece of poopy I made above, but it had some potential, at least. Maybe if I somehow worked it into a hybrid build it’d be better.

Though if you’re just doing PvE, a lot of stuff will work just fine there, it just might not be optimal (i.e. clearing dungeons as fast as possible).

The problem with a pure condi build is guardians only reliably have burning for damage so you have to make it a hybrid power/condi build. At that point you’ve invested so many trait and gear points into damage that you lack sustainment. After some experimentation, what I’ve come up with is 6/0/2/0/6 for pve and 6/2/0/0/6 for PvP. Both run II, VII or IX, XIII in zeal, V in radiance or IV or V in valor, and VI, VIII, and XI in virtues. Weapons are usually scepter/focus an sword/focus or gs but you could definitely put a torch in there if desired. I change up the virtues traits dynamically depending on the situation – if I’m mainly using scepter then I’ll swap XI for IX or X and likewise with VIII if I’m facing many targets. Put smoldering sigils in your weapon sets, use super veggie pizza and you can get passive burn to 2 seconds in pve. Skills are pure consecrations: WoR, purging flames, and hallowed ground although in poverty you’re better off trading HG for SYG or retreat. Rune set is flame legion for burn duration and even more damage vs burning targets. In PvP I use carrion amulet and in pve I use carrion armor with sinister trinkets (thanks LS!). It’s a fun build and does solid damage in pve. PvP is a mixed bag; I suggest bringing a tankier friend and you can do well just because your opponents don’t expect a hybrid guardian nor full consecrations.

I’ve used perma wrath with mace/focus build and burn on block trait, keeps targets burning for a long time. Sword is faster but Mace has a aoe symbol that keeps procing wrath. Honestly perma wrath and the traits that increase burning damage are way to far into lame trees. Guardian traits are spread really strange.

Sunshine.4680:

I’ve used perma wrath with mace/focus build and burn on block trait, keeps targets burning for a long time. Sword is faster but Mace has a aoe symbol that keeps procing wrath. Honestly perma wrath and the traits that increase burning damage are way to far into lame trees. Guardian traits are spread really strange.

I really liked the mace as well however the only problem i have with it is that it is so slow. The reason i liked using sword/GS is because sword 3 counts as 3 hits which allows me to keep up the burning proc almost indefinitely and GS because GS 2 is fantastic for burn procs and can be AOE .