Guild Wars 2

Psilence.2859:

+1 to undoing this change, it essentially negates all the positive changes to staff that might have possibly made Staff see a tiny bit more play. No one complained about staff auto-attacks being OP and this nerf just makes no sense.

Because 90% consisted of guards spamming 1 ? Offc you hear no one complain.

It cant be undone, and makes sense, and should stay this way but since it was a sloopy band aid to avoid bigger issues, they will need later to work on staff again…

Staff 2 always felt more like the staff AA than staff 1 anyways… still was a bad change cause now we have a uncompleted skill that need melee range to a weapon that cant be used on melee or close range, does no condi nor support nor damage… wich IMO should be what thing people should be targetting… not the OMG cant tag spamm… in terms of tag it was a buff they increased the arc….and for how this game is being playerd, zergs farming smallers groups and empty structures its more than fine…

I didn’t even realise people still played with the staff, Learn something new everyday. Handy for tagging in WvW eh, I’ll dust it off and get it ready, oh wait, it WAS good for tagging in WvW, back it goes into the loft.

Bloodclot.4896:

I didn’t even realise people still played with the staff, Learn something new everyday. Handy for tagging in WvW eh, I’ll dust it off and get it ready, oh wait, it WAS good for tagging in WvW, back it goes into the loft.

It wasn’t just used for tagging. Condi guardian could do quite some damage with it.

Bloodclot.4896:

I didn’t even realise people still played with the staff, Learn something new everyday. Handy for tagging in WvW eh, I’ll dust it off and get it ready, oh wait, it WAS good for tagging in WvW, back it goes into the loft.

You either absolutely clueless or trolling very hard.

The staff provided great group support.

1) There is the symbol of swiftness. Not only does it offer swiftness, it could assist with marking walls (damage support + fire damage when used with virtue of justice). One can never have enough wall pressure whilst the siege does its job. It also offers cleansing within the area. Perfect to cast on friendly siege.

2) There is the empower that gives might. A key thing in WvW for as long as we can remember. Not only does it empower, it offers reasonable healing when activated. Rank 3000 and I have seen how Empower in a middle of a zerg fight saved fellow players low on HP.

3) Line of Warding. Another extremely viable support skill both offensive and defensive. I cannot recall how many times I saved a friendly player running towards a tower/keep portal away from someone where my line of warding gave them the last needed seconds.

For all that, the guard got skill 1 in return to get his/her fair loot bags whilst those 3 skills above was recharging.

Anet did not take away the Guardians loot bag skill, they simply took away group support. So, next time a squishy runs low on health next to me, no cleansing/no healing/no might and no line of warding for the defense. Instead I am forced to use a weapon that does damage but not nowhere near enough group support.

Slaptjip.4895 it is to enforce core and hot players to buy the expantion…. to have DPS and support.

Its not a horizontal class progression after all… its not a alternative but more like a mandatory trait, like like vertical class progression is with the stats and new armors tier…. and camouflaged as balance.

Wow – why change the staff No. 1 skill?

Anet has rendered both staff and guard obsolete. I spent a fortune on my guard and my Bifrost, especially to use in wvw where squads only want certain classes (inexcusable in and of itself) but to then nerf my weapon into oblivion is baffling and infuriating. Please change this change as it is very hurtful to players and makes them mad. I see no one applauding this inexplicable nerf – its not like guards were op, especially when compared with classes like rev or thief, both of which got mad buffs.

I’ve stopped playing guard (even in pve) – is this really what Anet intended? Why not just delete the class too?

This staff change forces users to buy expansion.
Same thing happened again when the HoT came out

Hexalot.8194:

draxynnic.3719:

Hexalot.8194:

LOL at all the Guards in here lamenting the demise of their “loot stick”. :-D

By your post history, you’re a WvW player and apart from the WvW forum, you appear to be most interested in thief and revenant…

So, from a WvW perspective… was there anything about staff in WvW that actually warranted this change? Because it’s been virtually unseen in PvE or sPvP for a while now. I’d genuinely like to know if there was an actual call that this was OP by anyone, anywhere, that justifies this, or whether it was purely a dartboard nerf.

Because this change has pretty much guaranteed it will never be used in any other mode, and even for WvW, mightstacking can be done by other means.

Now, if the damage had been raised to something like Lightning Whip levels, I could kind of understand it. But at the moment, it feels like ‘demise’ is an appropriate term. They’ve basically boonsmited it, but in all game modes, and as far as I could see, with no indication that it was causing a problem beforehand.

Lets all be honest here (and yes I’m primarily a WvW player), the basis of the complaints about this nerf has everything to do with the fact that pressing “one” no longer will automatically fill your inventory up with loots bags… basically gaining free stuff just by being tanky enough to run through an opposing zerg while tagging downs.

You’re right that no one really “complained” that staff one was over powered before. But it just comes across as hilarious that people on this forum are finding just about every excuse for why this nerf should be reversed while refusing to admit the real reason… that it affects their wealth gain in WvW.

You summed it up quite nicely. It’s called lazy players used to being lazy being forced to actually not be lazy anymore. (A shorter version of your explination)

Slaptjip.4895:

Bloodclot.4896:

I didn’t even realise people still played with the staff, Learn something new everyday. Handy for tagging in WvW eh, I’ll dust it off and get it ready, oh wait, it WAS good for tagging in WvW, back it goes into the loft.

You either absolutely clueless or trolling very hard.

The staff provided great group support.

1) There is the symbol of swiftness. Not only does it offer swiftness, it could assist with marking walls (damage support + fire damage when used with virtue of justice). One can never have enough wall pressure whilst the siege does its job. It also offers cleansing within the area. Perfect to cast on friendly siege.

2) There is the empower that gives might. A key thing in WvW for as long as we can remember. Not only does it empower, it offers reasonable healing when activated. Rank 3000 and I have seen how Empower in a middle of a zerg fight saved fellow players low on HP.

3) Line of Warding. Another extremely viable support skill both offensive and defensive. I cannot recall how many times I saved a friendly player running towards a tower/keep portal away from someone where my line of warding gave them the last needed seconds.

For all that, the guard got skill 1 in return to get his/her fair loot bags whilst those 3 skills above was recharging.

Anet did not take away the Guardians loot bag skill, they simply took away group support. So, next time a squishy runs low on health next to me, no cleansing/no healing/no might and no line of warding for the defense. Instead I am forced to use a weapon that does damage but not nowhere near enough group support.

“The staff provided great group support.” lol

1) Symbol of swiftness is a mediocre skill. 15s Cooldown is a bit too high for a small bit of aoe damage and 4s of swiftness.

2) There are other ways to grant might just as quickly while remaining mostly mobile. The only reason empower is such a key component is due to Altruistic Healing.

3) Line of Warding is an extremely pitiful CC. 1 second cast time, 30 second cooldown for a line that people can simply walk around. In the game mode which it matters most, it’s a very low impact CC. By the time you’re in range to use it on an enemy zerg, they already have stab up.

Staff is intended to be a support weapon but didn’t do a very good job of that. It needed buffs to other skills and perhaps a rework to truely make it a modern and impactful support weapon. Instead it got unjustly nerfed with no fix in sight.

Hexalot.8194:

draxynnic.3719:

Hexalot.8194:

LOL at all the Guards in here lamenting the demise of their “loot stick”. :-D

By your post history, you’re a WvW player and apart from the WvW forum, you appear to be most interested in thief and revenant…

So, from a WvW perspective… was there anything about staff in WvW that actually warranted this change? Because it’s been virtually unseen in PvE or sPvP for a while now. I’d genuinely like to know if there was an actual call that this was OP by anyone, anywhere, that justifies this, or whether it was purely a dartboard nerf.

Because this change has pretty much guaranteed it will never be used in any other mode, and even for WvW, mightstacking can be done by other means.

Now, if the damage had been raised to something like Lightning Whip levels, I could kind of understand it. But at the moment, it feels like ‘demise’ is an appropriate term. They’ve basically boonsmited it, but in all game modes, and as far as I could see, with no indication that it was causing a problem beforehand.

Lets all be honest here (and yes I’m primarily a WvW player), the basis of the complaints about this nerf has everything to do with the fact that pressing “one” no longer will automatically fill your inventory up with loots bags… basically gaining free stuff just by being tanky enough to run through an opposing zerg while tagging downs.

You’re right that no one really “complained” that staff one was over powered before. But it just comes across as hilarious that people on this forum are finding just about every excuse for why this nerf should be reversed while refusing to admit the real reason… that it affects their wealth gain in WvW.

I hate the nerf and have stopped playing guard or using my staff that I paid a lot of money for. I don’t care at all about the loot bags in wvw. Anet could take them away completely and I would still play wvw and still play the same. The loot bag issue is petty. Necros have wells, marks, etc., engis have flame throwers, thief shortbow, etc. and all I ever hear in wvw is bags bags bags. Get rid of bags completely – I couldn’t care less. That’s not why I play guard.

I noticed that when I played the same staff/build in wvw post nerf, the only change I noticed was that I had to play frontline instead of midline, had to move around way more and died more. I noticed no difference in the amount of loot.

I mean if people were objecting to a “lootstick” why didn’t anet just increase recharge rate or decrease range a bit, instead of making staff a melee weapon that does low damage with no combos, low utility.

Why give guard another melee weapon, a fairly useless melee weapon at that, specially in comparison with swords, greatswords or hammers (or axes per new release).

So now guards have only 2 long range weapons = a scepter and a longbow (which may be rendered obsolete with new release), and have zero mid-range weapons. How is this fair?

Its not about bags. If you don’t like the "lootstick, nerf it in some way that makes staff a viable midline weapon – don’t render it useless.

It makes me mad that people suggest the only reason the no. 1 staff skill was used or any good was for loot. Its about viability and usefulness. Now guards cant tag at all.

Guards have no midline weapons now. Bye bye staff “storage stick.”

Dagger.2035:

The staff nerf is awful. I just spent 250 gold to create a Guardian for WvW and now I don’t see myself playing it anymore.

I mainly pug so I don’t care about squad composition. Why would I waste time trying to tag enemies with a weak 300 range weapon when I can just play a Necromancer or Revenant instead?

I mainly pug so I don’t care about squad composition.
This is beautiful. So because you are a pug you are allowed to not care about squad composition? Ill say that to commander next time ill bring glass-cannon berserker thief to front line.

Why would I waste time trying to tag enemies with a weak 300 range weapon
So in short terms, playing in WvW for you is not about teamwork and coordination and mainly having fun, but tagging everything to get your free loot?

I hope I don’t have you running in my squads.

EDIT: It really looks like most people in this thread forgot that Guardians can use Hammer.
1. AoE protection on third auto attack.
2. Blast finisher on 5s cd
3. AoE immobilize, not great but can do some stuff in corridor fights
4. Banish pretty much meme tool to get downed people out of support range of their group.
5. AoE wall, great to catch targets without stability.

Mace/Shield gives insane support to your group.

This so is something that was not remotely needed.

Would really like a better official response to why this was done in the first place. And what purpose it has.

Yannir.4132:

I don’t think they just got fed up with “teh lootstick” but instead there’s something going on behind the scenes.

Spot on, the issue isnt the loot stick or damage thru walls.

But i am afraid its not barrier but that they are trying to save the axe as the best condition weapon and the staff is a victim in that process.

StanleyJohny.8047:

EDIT: It really looks like most people in this thread forgot that Guardians can use Hammer.
1. AoE protection on third auto attack.
2. Blast finisher on 5s cd
3. AoE immobilize, not great but can do some stuff in corridor fights
4. Banish pretty much meme tool to get downed people out of support range of their group.
5. AoE wall, great to catch targets without stability.

Mace/Shield gives insane support to your group.

Not in the frontline of a zerg or as a condition weapon. We only have one weapon in vanilla guard that can do that. Or “could” might be the proper word to use.

While I could be jelly of the lootstick, I can agree that this is another absolutely stupid nerf.

StanleyJohny.8047:

This is beautiful. So because you are a pug you are allowed to not care about squad composition? Ill say that to commander next time ill bring glass-cannon berserker thief to front line.

So in short terms, playing in WvW for you is not about teamwork and coordination and mainly having fun, but tagging everything to get your free loot?

I would never zerg with a useless profession. I mainly play Revenant and Necromancer and both of those classes have nice ranged AOEs and are tough enough push with the front of the zerg. I prefer those classes since they are adaptable and work well in most situations. Just because squad composition isn’t my main concern doesn’t mean I’ve never switched classes for a commander. I have 80s of all professions and duplicates of the professions I like most.

When I made the comment about tagging with a weak 300 range weapon, I was referring to how pointless the staff has become. It’s better to not bring it at all.

To add to that. Without the staff for mid range damage I would rather play other professions since they are more fun. I’m not going to be a melee range stability-bot when I’m not a part of an organized group.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Hexalot.8194:

draxynnic.3719:

Hexalot.8194:

LOL at all the Guards in here lamenting the demise of their “loot stick”. :-D

By your post history, you’re a WvW player and apart from the WvW forum, you appear to be most interested in thief and revenant…

So, from a WvW perspective… was there anything about staff in WvW that actually warranted this change? Because it’s been virtually unseen in PvE or sPvP for a while now. I’d genuinely like to know if there was an actual call that this was OP by anyone, anywhere, that justifies this, or whether it was purely a dartboard nerf.

Because this change has pretty much guaranteed it will never be used in any other mode, and even for WvW, mightstacking can be done by other means.

Now, if the damage had been raised to something like Lightning Whip levels, I could kind of understand it. But at the moment, it feels like ‘demise’ is an appropriate term. They’ve basically boonsmited it, but in all game modes, and as far as I could see, with no indication that it was causing a problem beforehand.

Lets all be honest here (and yes I’m primarily a WvW player), the basis of the complaints about this nerf has everything to do with the fact that pressing “one” no longer will automatically fill your inventory up with loots bags… basically gaining free stuff just by being tanky enough to run through an opposing zerg while tagging downs.

You’re right that no one really “complained” that staff one was over powered before. But it just comes across as hilarious that people on this forum are finding just about every excuse for why this nerf should be reversed while refusing to admit the real reason… that it affects their wealth gain in WvW.

I hate the nerf and have stopped playing guard or using my staff that I paid a lot of money for. I don’t care at all about the loot bags in wvw. Anet could take them away completely and I would still play wvw and still play the same. The loot bag issue is petty. Necros have wells, marks, etc., engis have flame throwers, thief shortbow, etc. and all I ever hear in wvw is bags bags bags. Get rid of bags completely – I couldn’t care less. That’s not why I play guard.

I noticed that when I played the same staff/build in wvw post nerf, the only change I noticed was that I had to play frontline instead of midline, had to move around way more and died more. I noticed no difference in the amount of loot.

And why do you think you noticed no difference in the amount of loot ?

Because as you just ironically mentioned above (and I quote), “I had to play frontline instead of midline, had to move around way more and died more”.

Ta Da !

Now you can’t just hang back anymore behind the front line and press 1111 while vacuuming up every bag in sight with zero risk to your life. You’ve actually got to work for your loot this time.

Objective achieved !

You know what’s funny? A burn guardian sitting in the backline spamming Symbols from Longbow and Scepter, Longbow #5 and purging flames (procing PW dozens of times a fight) is twice as easy and possibly more rewarding than the original staff :>

There is no argument against it. People saying we got easy loot? We still get easy loot with even less effort. All you need is Carrion armor and Dire everything else. A longbow and scepter/???.

People are in here acting like they play Guardian and know anything about it. Acting like they know what’s healthy for the class. I’m still in the backline farming bags no effort. Guardian will always be better at getting no effort loot than you.

This entire argument comes down to “You weren’t playing the way we wanted you to” and I still ain’t.

Hexalot.8194:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Hexalot.8194:

draxynnic.3719:

Hexalot.8194:

LOL at all the Guards in here lamenting the demise of their “loot stick”. :-D

By your post history, you’re a WvW player and apart from the WvW forum, you appear to be most interested in thief and revenant…

So, from a WvW perspective… was there anything about staff in WvW that actually warranted this change? Because it’s been virtually unseen in PvE or sPvP for a while now. I’d genuinely like to know if there was an actual call that this was OP by anyone, anywhere, that justifies this, or whether it was purely a dartboard nerf.

Because this change has pretty much guaranteed it will never be used in any other mode, and even for WvW, mightstacking can be done by other means.

Now, if the damage had been raised to something like Lightning Whip levels, I could kind of understand it. But at the moment, it feels like ‘demise’ is an appropriate term. They’ve basically boonsmited it, but in all game modes, and as far as I could see, with no indication that it was causing a problem beforehand.

Lets all be honest here (and yes I’m primarily a WvW player), the basis of the complaints about this nerf has everything to do with the fact that pressing “one” no longer will automatically fill your inventory up with loots bags… basically gaining free stuff just by being tanky enough to run through an opposing zerg while tagging downs.

You’re right that no one really “complained” that staff one was over powered before. But it just comes across as hilarious that people on this forum are finding just about every excuse for why this nerf should be reversed while refusing to admit the real reason… that it affects their wealth gain in WvW.

I hate the nerf and have stopped playing guard or using my staff that I paid a lot of money for. I don’t care at all about the loot bags in wvw. Anet could take them away completely and I would still play wvw and still play the same. The loot bag issue is petty. Necros have wells, marks, etc., engis have flame throwers, thief shortbow, etc. and all I ever hear in wvw is bags bags bags. Get rid of bags completely – I couldn’t care less. That’s not why I play guard.

I noticed that when I played the same staff/build in wvw post nerf, the only change I noticed was that I had to play frontline instead of midline, had to move around way more and died more. I noticed no difference in the amount of loot.

And why do you think you noticed no difference in the amount of loot ?

Because as you just ironically mentioned above (and I quote), “I had to play frontline instead of midline, had to move around way more and died more”.

Ta Da !

Now you can’t just hang back anymore behind the front line and press 1111 while vacuuming up every bag in sight with zero risk to your life. You’ve actually got to work for your loot this time.

Objective achieved !

I never did this.

However, now I will never give stability/sustain/empower. Also, now I have no combos and no melee type damage using my staff.

Hmmmm.

U seem to imply that only “front line” does damage. I resent that. I played very hard and furiously with my little staff at midline/backline – just like u obviously did on frontline. I also played frontline on my guard as well, and did it well.

However, now I die MORE in frontline w/ my useless staff and I cant play midline AT ALL. What a great solution to your mistaken impression that I get more loot than you – especially since I get way more loot playing my necro.

Also, I don’t see that nerfing a weapon into oblivion is nice to anyone who paid a lot of money to use it.

I don’t see the point of the nerf either. 450 i could understand but 300 is too much

Slaptjip.4895:

Bloodclot.4896:

I didn’t even realise people still played with the staff, Learn something new everyday. Handy for tagging in WvW eh, I’ll dust it off and get it ready, oh wait, it WAS good for tagging in WvW, back it goes into the loft.

You either absolutely clueless or trolling very hard.

The staff provided great group support.

1) There is the symbol of swiftness. Not only does it offer swiftness, it could assist with marking walls (damage support + fire damage when used with virtue of justice). One can never have enough wall pressure whilst the siege does its job. It also offers cleansing within the area. Perfect to cast on friendly siege.

2) There is the empower that gives might. A key thing in WvW for as long as we can remember. Not only does it empower, it offers reasonable healing when activated. Rank 3000 and I have seen how Empower in a middle of a zerg fight saved fellow players low on HP.

3) Line of Warding. Another extremely viable support skill both offensive and defensive. I cannot recall how many times I saved a friendly player running towards a tower/keep portal away from someone where my line of warding gave them the last needed seconds.

For all that, the guard got skill 1 in return to get his/her fair loot bags whilst those 3 skills above was recharging.

Anet did not take away the Guardians loot bag skill, they simply took away group support. So, next time a squishy runs low on health next to me, no cleansing/no healing/no might and no line of warding for the defense. Instead I am forced to use a weapon that does damage but not nowhere near enough group support.

Symbol of Swiftness is the only place where you are right here.

Empower is outclassed when it comes to might botting and its heal is basically useless in times when you need it most. No one is going to stand still for the full second it takes to go off in the middle of a zerg fight. I’ve seen gaurdians get ran the hell over because of this ‘trick’ many times.

Line of Warding is absolutely nullified by the current stability meta, the fact that you can back up into it and it’ll knock you through, and that you can simply run around it. Also doesn’t help that people in WvW tend to throw it in places where no one ever goes, such as that massive area of the floor filled with damage fields that the enemy zerg is just going to run around.

And in case Orb of Wrath was mentioned and I missed it: It’s not good for damage since it has a terrible time tracking enemies and free casting it is a pain in the butt. Its only use is a small self heal. It’s a pointless ‘look guys we gave you more damage to compensate for an undeserved nerf’ gimmick.

The ironic thing about the ‘they nerfed staff to make room for axe’ comment…

If true, they’ve actually shot themselves in the foot. I’m less interested in axe now than I was before.

Why? Because it’s going to have the same problem that condi revenant has had since release: No effective ranged weapon, or, for that matter, no alternative condi-based set to swap to (okay, maybe sword/X counts due to also generating a lot of passive procs). Staff with Permeating Wrath could have worked, but now it’s only ‘ranged’ in the most technical sense.

It’s going to be in the same situation that condi rev has been since release (and which renegede seems intended to fix): not having an effective condi-based weapon outside of melee range. In fact, it’ll be worse off, since rev has a short-recharge 480-range fire field it can use for some standoff capability. Condi firebrand won’t even have that.

Until this nerf, I was planning out getting a condi set for axe/torch and to give Permeating Wrath a try for myself. Now? I don’t think I’ll bother. I’ll just keep using power… and depending on how much of the firebrand’s other mechanics are linked to condi damage, that might mean that the firebrand as a whole becomes a fizzle where I’m concerned. (Although, from what I’ve seen thus far, it looks like power Firebrand will be viable.)

so, guard staff 1 got nerfed. but all the potential of the other skills (and “new” traits) is completely negated by almost everyone in here.

i have to admit, i am a wvw player – and i play mainly zergs and sieges.
in other gamemodes, this weapon was maybe used for a might stack before the start of a fight OR for some niche-builds that an absolute minority of players played (i feel sorry for you, i used a bomb-engineer with those tinkture-bombs, years ago… to give support to my zerg in wvw, while having amazing bombs. which is most likely the best comparison i can come up with atm).

so comparing staff 1 (- with 600 range – not a projectile – a huge range – a 5 ppl cleave – plus guaranteed proc of that burning – can cast through walls – plus the incredible angle -) to other melee-like weapons… always felt wrong to me. in every zerg aspect, this was a huge advantage, since you tag everything and you can stay far more away and hit, compared to any other melee weapon. (130 – 180 range … okay, engineer flamethrower with 450, that would instantly kill you because each auto would hit 10 times on a couple of players. retaliation hits you for over 9k BAM)
the day i joined wvw, silverwastes, orr, halloween-event… i often used guard, because it guaranteed loot, exp (and survivability). necro was maybe the one class that would still tag from a distance without problems and apply damage without getting reflected or wrecked and tagging something before it was dead
now add all the grp support – atleast in wvw there is not a single class that offers THAT much of support to the grp than the guardian. the support-aspect of this weapon even spiked with the patch.

skill 2 heals more (well… wasnt much anyway) BUT it gives light aura. and light aura reduces incoming condition-dmg by 10%. since there are almost always 1-2 guards in a group… thats massive. uptime of 50% without finishing any fields with some sort of finisher.

skill 3… is good as it is. pulses boons, that heal you with the altruistic trait(remember, mainly talking about wvw and things like orr-mass-events) and does damage at range.

skill 4 got buffed aswell. sure its still not a skill you can use while moving, but it heals now on every pulse. safed my day so many times since the patch. you can even stop casting at the second or first pulse, and still get healing for everyone. (plus 3-5% more heal… okay forget about that).

skill 5 is still the way to stop a zerg or strip stab.

other weapons didnt see much comparison to the staff. 80% of the player-base would sit on staff, because its super easy. there was just no tradeoff for the range.
now staff on guard is just as good as any other cleaving weapon, that is not a projectile. and thats just fair.
and you know what? 300 in melee diving stuff… you still hit more and do more dmg than other classes (dps on guards, on average players was always in the upper 30% …sadly. best support (stab, heal…whatsoever) + one of the best dmg applications with purging bombs and staff 11111111. face it. its not fair

for me the support in wvw is still the main task of guards staff. and that got buffed quite a bit.
(the support on the class got even more buffed, since signets passives can be shared accross grps. -12% dmg reduction. +212 power and such. or more ferocity while having retaliation. you have to make a tradeoff ofc. but that offers build-diversity and is not part of this thread).

i would have liked a 450 range or even 360 as a compromise after all the whining in different threads and undo the 300. but it is 300 now, and the weapons just works fine. in most pve scenarios we are melee anyway and in other zerg-heavy stuff it is still meant to be like “diving” into the red dots, and there the weapon still shines and is still better than most other cleaving weapons (gs 130 range, right? hammer 130 range, right?).

I refer you to my post on the other thread on the subject here.

The problem is opportunity cost. You only have two weaponsets. Staff gives good support, but it was used because it gave good support while still being a decent ranged option.

So how are you supposed to use it now?

If you keep using it with a melee set, then your only realistic ranged option that isn’t on a lengthy recharge is Orb of Light – and that only if you don’t detonate it. So the effect of the buff on detonating Orb of Light is largely wasted in that case because you can’t afford to use it.

If you combine it with a ranged set, then you’re effectively using staff as a melee set. The problem with that is that the damage of Wave of Wrath just doesn’t justify having to be that close to five targets, and all the other skills are balanced around being used at longer range (particularly Empower and Line of Warding with their slow cast times). You’d be better off using a genuine melee weapon, and probably offer more effective support if that melee weapon is a hammer or mace/X combination.

If they’d increased the damage of Wave of Wrath, then maybe your argument would work on the basis that their intent is for staff to be effectively another melee weapon. But it’s still a tickle. And even putting the question of the staff itself aside – this nerf means that scepter becomes the only real ranged weapon that core guardian (and therefore any elite spec that doesn’t bring its own ranged weapon) has. Only having one ranged weapon is a very uncomfortable position for any profession to be in, since it makes the profession very susceptible to nerfs on that weapon. Just look at what’s happened to revenants, particularly in sPvP.

I am super glad, that the linked thread contains a lot of dudes that agree with me completely.

Like… Your DMG argument is not valid, since the staff does more in zerg like content, due to hitting 5 targets and being half a second cast. Neither mace, nor hammer do that on each hit and they are slow as kitten.
Purely support, mace shield seem to be better, right… Because might stacking can be done with fire fields (tempest overload) and Hammer on the go, without stacking first.
But the combination of heal, cc, DMG mitigation and being best DPS (as long as there are 5 enemies) is a thing only staff can do.

I really don’t mind it. I will not stop playing guard in wvw or mass events because of that. There is still plenty of utility for this class to be perfect to do this content and shine… And be more comparable to other classes and weapons now.

I want my Lootstick back.

It took me 5 minutes to figure out that the “loot stick” was overpowered when I started playing WvW at launch, judging from the massive increase in drops I was getting on my Guardian compared to my Warrior.

It took ArenaNet 5 years.

A very convenient 5 years in which people heavily invested in their Staff Guards, only to have their toy taken away from them without notice. As a gesture of goodwill, a range decrease of 50% could at least have entailed a damage increase of 50%.

As always, the balance team is the game’s own worst enemy (GW1 Smiter’s Boon, anyone?). I’m holding off on my PoF purchase until we get at least some kind of reaction from a dev.

Lagg.3960:

As always, the balance team is the game’s own worst enemy (GW1 Smiter’s Boon, anyone?). I’m holding off on my PoF purchase until we get at least some kind of reaction from a dev.

There’s no comparison.

The original boonsmiting was well reasoned (the skill created degenerate teams where one build could do everything) and, more importantly, only applied to the game mode where the problem existed. This boonsmiting has no explanation given (even the schadenfreude posters are basically guessing) and affects game modes where staff was clearly already struggling.

I see that certain things were addressed in latest patch – still nothing on guard staff No. 1 skill. Is there no hope there will be modification? Is it time to switch to longbow?

So much for build variety, made the very niche weapon completely useless. Please revert back to how it was.

I have no idea why this happened. My big, bulky, tanky Guardian now can only slowly lumber towards the enemy, only to have them die before he pokes them gingerly with his holy rod. Now the only thing I have to satisfy my ‘light mage’ archetype itch involves Scepter, which can only attack one thing at a time.

Please change it back.

There are a lot of better options if you just want a light mage theme, like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Light_of_Judgment or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heal_Area. The only real use Wave of Wrath had was farming. It didn’t deal any real damage, it didn’t have much range, and it didn’t do anything supportive.

Fashion Mage.3712:

It didn’t deal any real damage, it didn’t have much range, and it didn’t do anything supportive.

Absolute nonsens! Why not try a standard burnbuild in wvw with trailblazers as a front guardian. You with purging flames you could easily have >6 stacks of burning on 5 opponents. burning for >1500 per second on each target.

The dps was only neglectable on full bunker stabrobots.

There was a couple of pretty decent power builds as well..

Brutaly.6257:

Fashion Mage.3712:

It didn’t deal any real damage, it didn’t have much range, and it didn’t do anything supportive.

Absolute nonsens! Why not try a standard burnbuild in wvw with trailblazers as a front guardian. With purging flames you could easily have >6 stacks of burning on 5 opponents. burning for >1500 per second on each target.

The dps was only neglectable on full bunker stabrobots.

There was a couple of pretty decent power builds as well..

Fashion Mage.3712:

It didn’t deal any real damage, it didn’t have much range, and it didn’t do anything supportive.

Absolute nonsens! Why not try a standard burnbuild in wvw with trailblazers as a front guardian. With purging flames you could easily have >6 stacks of burning on 5 opponents. burning for >2k per second on each target.

The dps was only neglectable on full bunker stabrobots.

There was a couple of pretty decent power builds as well..

I really hope we get perma-speed now for Guardian. Staff was the only weapon that gave a good speed buff. I hate that we’re kind of forced to use traveler runes and staff and have to sacrifice for speed.

If Permeating Wrath may have caused the staff nerf, why not adjust that trait instead to address the problem more directly. Make that trait single target so condition guardians can’t use the staff to apply burning. This change shouldn’t hurt condition guardians in the long run since the Firebrand is on its way.

Please fix bug on staff 1. The range seems to be bugged at 300 distance instead of 600 that it should be. Thank you.

New patch update. thief, ranger, and ele get updates/fixes. Guard gets nothing. Guard is like the redheaded stepchild I swear. Fix staff 1 plz. kthanxbai.

Can this cruel joke please be over? Fix guard staff skill 1 by reverting back to a useful range of 600. We are behind as it is with meta, this is like rubbing salt on the wound. Thank you.

The change is braindead … but I think it’s easy to see that for most play, the way the weapon was used by players was also braindead; it shouldn’t have been that easy to achieve results it got spamming auto. I hope they nerf the hell out of it with the hope they completely rethink the way it works … though history says otherwise.

I think if ANet kept the change, but made a few alterations to the way the staff functions, it could be useful. Turn that short range into a combo attack, add heal/boon support to allies in the affected area (even if it’s small), and reduce the attack time just a bit, and it’d go a long way towards staff being the decent support weapon it’s supposed to be.

Of course, it would also need to have a few other skills retuned, but with the staff 4 update (pulsing heals instead of just boons + end heal), it seems like it’s headed in the right direction.

I’d like to see #1 with a heal component and range at 900-1200. Reduce the cone and call it good.

It’s not super bad, but 450 would be more reasonable — the real issue stems from them nerfing this and effectively not buffing anything else with it. The tiny bit of width and the 5 cooldown was pretty much nothing.

450 and give it a boon component or something.

Also, please stop creating more threads about this, just make this one super fat, it’s more effective and you’re not kittening off the mods.

I agree 100%. This change was a very bad one for the vanilla Guardian. We now only have 1 ranged weapon, and Scepter does not work well with many Guardian builds in several game types. It’s decent in PvP and good single target DPS in PvE. Now we have to go dragon hunter for another ranged option?

If anything, the width of the cone should have been reduced and the range remaining at 600. Instead, this weapon is now nothing more than inferior cleave to Great Sword, Sword, Hammer and even Mace with a bunch of support options in slots 2-5. Thing is, I don’t want a weapon that is bad and fighting and staff feels absolutely useless in WvW from a combat perspective. 300 range might as well be 150 range and true melee from a WvW perspective. No one bothers to use staff in PvE outside of halloween farming. So great, now we have Engineers with better cleave (flame thrower) than a guardian? Seems a bit like a bad joke to me.

At least increase the range and less the cone or something. Guardians shouldn’t be forced to use Scepter for ranged damage.

Anet – stop breaking what doesn’t need to be fixed. This is how you lose people. This game already has a lot of things that keep people away – something I am not even going to delve into. Don’t force people who are playing to go the same path. Fix it.