Guild Wars 2

Right off the bat, this new patch is fantastic for guardians of every build.
I’m writing to discuss the viability of our burning condition with the new traits. Arenanet is obviously trying to entice us to spec more into conditions—particularly condition damage.
Burning is a very accessible condition for guardians, along with blind, and vulnerability. The new Zeal grandmaster trait (Power—>Condition Damage)coupled with the torch trait buff and the Blind Vulnerability duration-doubling seem to lend themselves to more condition use by aggressive guardians.
My question is, for an aggressive guardian who relies on Sword/Focus and Greatsword for WvW and PvE, are celestial stats looking more attractive now, with condition damage and duration more useful? Thoughts? Opinions?

Burning is still only one condition and direct damage will always be more wanted.

I wouldnt go condition, regardless.
It may seem ok in a solo situation, but in groups, burning only stacks duration and in pvp everyone should be able to cleanse it asap.

I agree with both of the above posters—but my real question is along the lines of analyzing the usefulness of celestial gear vs. berserkers, for taking down high-health targets and in WvW. Celestial only slightly decreases the power/prec/crit damage, while upping the condition damage and other defensive stats considerably. With the increased durations and the new grandmaster zeal trait adding power to condition damage, I feel like a more versatile build might be justified. In terms of 1v1 damage, the combination of power and constantly-reapplied burning damage and vulnerability might be more effective than direct damage.

What happens when we start fighting Primordus? It seems to me that while burning is the most accessible to us, it’s also the most likely condition to have enemies be completely immune to.

If anything it makes berserker’s/soldier’s gear is better since now you can get 10% power—> condition damage.

I suppose if you use the new torch trait with +20% burn duration the extra condi damage on celestial gear goes a bit further, but that’s about it.

Hicci.8761:

Burning is still only one condition and direct damage will always be more wanted.

This. Nothing has changed with the fact that condition damage is not competetive at all.

Saitam.9340:

I agree with both of the above posters—but my real question is along the lines of analyzing the usefulness of celestial gear vs. berserkers, for taking down high-health targets and in WvW. Celestial only slightly decreases the power/prec/crit damage, while upping the condition damage and other defensive stats considerably. With the increased durations and the new grandmaster zeal trait adding power to condition damage, I feel like a more versatile build might be justified. In terms of 1v1 damage, the combination of power and constantly-reapplied burning damage and vulnerability might be more effective than direct damage.

Circle of Logic

+126 Power
+85 Precision
+9% Critical Damage

Syzergy:

+54 Power
+54 Precision
+54 Toughness
+54 Vitality
+7% Critical Damage
+54 Healing Power
+54 Condition Damage
+4% Magic Find

Never doubt berserkers gear

Celestial is terrible. Don’t use it for condition damage. In fact, don’t spec for condition damage as a Guardian. It’s just not worth it. The exchange rate between direct damage and condition damage is not in any way shape or form equitable or advantageous.

Going full condition doesn’t work, but if you craft your gear correctly and take the new grandmaster trait you can manage pretty good power, condition damage, and toughness. Something like 3k power, 700-800 condition damage, 3k toughness, 15-16k health.

I think it works out well if you can whirling wrath for 5k while at the same time burning them nearly constantly for some absurd amount.

timidobserver.7925:

Going full condition doesn’t work, but if you craft your gear correctly and take the new grandmaster trait you can manage pretty good power, condition damage, and toughness. Something like 3k power, 700-800 condition damage, 3k toughness, 15-16k health.

I think it works out well if you can whirling wrath for 5k while at the same time burning them nearly constantly for some absurd amount.

3k toughness?

Aeolus.3615:

timidobserver.7925:

Going full condition doesn’t work, but if you craft your gear correctly and take the new grandmaster trait you can manage pretty good power, condition damage, and toughness. Something like 3k power, 700-800 condition damage, 3k toughness, 15-16k health.

I think it works out well if you can whirling wrath for 5k while at the same time burning them nearly constantly for some absurd amount.

3k toughness?

better yet 3k power?!

he probably meant 3k armor and 3k effective power as per http://gw2buildcraft.com.

i don’t know why there’s so much hate on celestial. i use a few trinkets in my builds as i’m unable to get the same numbers with any other trinkets with the build/runes i use. believe me, i’ve tried, and while i can get close, a few celestial always beat out anything else.

yes, the mf is a complete waste of stat points, but i just consider the condition damage to be a bonus to everything else they give.

More likely, he meant 3k attack, which people need to stop looking at.

@Aeolus I believe he meant 3k armor
anyway I want to tell You something I observed in WvW.
nearly EVERYONE are specing their dmg into direct dmg so power/prec/crit dmg
and everyone when want to make some more bunker build are spending points in toughness asap
and in the consequences very little into vitality.
and also I noticed that most people when burned are burning like a paper if burning is applied properly quickly (burn burn – condi removal – burn burn – death)
and thats without no spec in condition dmg with 45 lvl guardian using skil nr 1 from tome of Wrath – that was so cleanse of enemies on the walls

the thing is – right now no one is focusing on vitality because there are very phew builds focused on conditions – and maybe burning stacking by duration make them weaker in dmg than proper number of other condition stacks – but also You need apply only one stack to inflict rather good dps – and other conditions start to be dangerous only when stacked in properly numbers.
and conditions ignores targets armor – and most ppl are specing into armor in case of survivability.
so why we cannot use our given by profession build to make some burning hybrid build?
when we find good balance between power crits and condi we can do much more than when specing into power/prec or condi

Your reasoning is sound – with more toughness and less HP conditions do become more viable. But the issue is that burning on its own doesn’t scale enough to actually make the trade-off between [power, precision, critical damage] and condition damage worth it. If we had a second condition that did damage, yeah, go for it, build for condition damage. But burning alone isn’t enough.

Lord Trejgon.2809:

@Aeolus I believe he meant 3k armor
anyway I want to tell You something I observed in WvW.
nearly EVERYONE are specing their dmg into direct dmg so power/prec/crit dmg
and everyone when want to make some more bunker build are spending points in toughness asap
and in the consequences very little into vitality.
and also I noticed that most people when burned are burning like a paper if burning is applied properly quickly (burn burn – condi removal – burn burn – death)
and thats without no spec in condition dmg with 45 lvl guardian using skil nr 1 from tome of Wrath – that was so cleanse of enemies on the walls

the thing is – right now no one is focusing on vitality because there are very phew builds focused on conditions – and maybe burning stacking by duration make them weaker in dmg than proper number of other condition stacks – but also You need apply only one stack to inflict rather good dps – and other conditions start to be dangerous only when stacked in properly numbers.
and conditions ignores targets armor – and most ppl are specing into armor in case of survivability.
so why we cannot use our given by profession build to make some burning hybrid build?
when we find good balance between power crits and condi we can do much more than when specing into power/prec or condi

Focusing on health and armor is wrong in many aspects becouse with guardian you become less efective on killing one thing that i learned on the hard way is “kill before target press any key” atm i changed to a zerk/valk guardian with 115% crit damage, i was being almost insta killed with a 25k health and 3700 amor guardian, so now i can take several targets at once, there are some builds that no matter how many RC you have and health you will be obliterated in seconds.

Very few build on conditions? i think its the other way except for warrior and guardian, and warrior with boon hate dealing
12k+ damage with one skill on guardian is way to much

But has i expect from gw2 updates, i am already waiting for gw3…at least ill try it.

foofad.5162:

Celestial is terrible. Don’t use it for condition damage. In fact, don’t spec for condition damage as a Guardian. It’s just not worth it. The exchange rate between direct damage and condition damage is not in any way shape or form equitable or advantageous.

Celestial is actually quite good, although you’re correct in that condi damage is by far the least useful stat.

whiskyjack.7962:

he probably meant 3k armor and 3k effective power as per http://gw2buildcraft.com.

i don’t know why there’s so much hate on celestial. i use a few trinkets in my builds as i’m unable to get the same numbers with any other trinkets with the build/runes i use. believe me, i’ve tried, and while i can get close, a few celestial always beat out anything else.

yes, the mf is a complete waste of stat points, but i just consider the condition damage to be a bonus to everything else they give.

3k attack and 3k armor.

I wouldn’t suggest using the condition trait in any serious build. There are a number of builds, based on the new condition trait and a few celestial pieces, that can provide short term entertainment in pve, spvp, and wvw roaming based on the new condition trait though.