Guild Wars 2

I’ve always been a big fan of the guardian (AH shout build especially) for being on the front line in WvW but since picking up a warrior I’m starting to wonder whether the melee train of a zerg would be more effective with less guardians and more warriors?

Their higher health pool, endure pain, GS whirl and (time based) shield block seem much better suited to zerging than the guardian’s consistent healing (which seems more suited to bunkering a point in sPvP). One of our main defense mechanisms (aegis) does very little to save you in large groups.

Do you feel like the guardian could do with a few more “oh kitten” buttons for large group situations?

Any good group will have a mix of warriors and guardians. Endure pain sounds great, but its not the “oh kitten” button you might think it is. Ya you’re immune to direct damage, but you are not immune to conditions or cc. Personally I never take it.

Guardians have one of the best elites in the game for “oh kitten” moments. Its called renewed focus. Using it is a real invul, which warriors do not have. Shelter is also one of the best “oh kitten” healing skills around.

No no, guardians do not need anything more in this regard IMO. Stick some lyssa runes in your armor for a quadruple whammy all condi cleanse, all boon giving, invulnerable virtue recharge and tell me its not the bomb.

That said, any good group has a mix of guardians and warriors at the front laying the cc smackdown, but trust me, there is only one thing and one thing only guardians should be jealous of warriors for; mobility. That’s it.

I do rate shelter and should have mentioned that. However, renewed focus comes at the cost of tome of courage which is our absolute best skill for group support.

I have good survivability with my guardian but that is specced and geared full bunker. A warrior can achieve the same or better survivability (for long enough for a zerg clash to be concluded) while doing twice the damage! (Better damage in equal gear and can get away with having less pvt)

Group Stability is a hell of a drug.

-Rick James

shadowraith.9124:

I do rate shelter and should have mentioned that. However, renewed focus comes at the cost of tome of courage which is our absolute best skill for group support.

I have good survivability with my guardian but that is specced and geared full bunker. A warrior can achieve the same or better survivability (for long enough for a zerg clash to be concluded) while doing twice the damage! (Better damage in equal gear and can get away with having less pvt)

Same survivability You say?
I’m not Warrior spec, but from my fights against warriors using both my ranger and guadian, They don’t seems to.
Maybe nearly no one playing warrior are giving anything to survi and just going berserkers and try to kill everything before dies (or just I meet on the battleground only those)

PS. take guardian support from those zerg clash away and then check if You are still correct

Lord Trejgon.2809:

shadowraith.9124:

I do rate shelter and should have mentioned that. However, renewed focus comes at the cost of tome of courage which is our absolute best skill for group support.

I have good survivability with my guardian but that is specced and geared full bunker. A warrior can achieve the same or better survivability (for long enough for a zerg clash to be concluded) while doing twice the damage! (Better damage in equal gear and can get away with having less pvt)

Same survivability You say?
I’m not Warrior spec, but from my fights against warriors using both my ranger and guadian, They don’t seems to.
Maybe nearly no one playing warrior are giving anything to survi and just going berserkers and try to kill everything before dies (or just I meet on the battleground only those)

PS. take guardian support from those zerg clash away and then check if You are still correct

I’m not entirely sure you’re understanding what they’re saying….

They’re claiming both classes spec’d for zerg vs zerg, and you’re talking 1v1 roaming….

Renewed Focus isn’t a Invulernability skill. You evade all attacks, but if you’ve condition damage on you, you suffer damage. At last, it’s better the 5 of the war shield, because block every attacks and has a lower recharge and can reflect projectiles (trait).
Frequently while I try to survive using Renewed Focus I die ’cause of the conditions before i can use my virtue to clean conditions on me (trait).

At last, war has more invulnerability to damage than a Guardian.
Guardian use the shield to protect ally and knock back enemy, but you can elude it using stability and melee attacks, unblockable attacks or skills to make your attacks unblockable.

p.s. sorry for my bad english

A Warrior running Shield and Endure Pain isn’t running Warhorn for AoE boons and a third shout for group healing and condition removal.

That isn’t a Warrior I want in my group when I’m in WvW.

Blasino.3128:

Group Stability is a hell of a drug.

-Rick James

LOL I wish I could vote more than once. That is awesome.

Renewed Focus isn’t a Invulernability skill. You evade all attacks, but if you’ve condition damage on you, you suffer damage. At last, it’s better the 5 of the war shield, because block every attacks and has a lower recharge and can reflect projectiles (trait).
Frequently while I try to survive using Renewed Focus I die ’cause of the conditions before i can use my virtue to clean conditions on me (trait).

At last, war has more invulnerability to damage than a Guardian.
Guardian use the shield to protect ally and knock back enemy, but you can elude it using stability and melee attacks, unblockable attacks or skills to make your attacks unblockable.

p.s. sorry for my bad english

What you are referring to is a distortion/blur effect. The invulnerability from RF is an actual invulnerability. In GW2 that mechanic means you are immune to incoming damage, and incoming conditions. You will however still suffer damage from falling,environment, and existing conditions. There difference is that you will get 2 seconds of being immune to CC while channeling it, where as endure pain gives you no such immunity. To anyone that’s felt the pain of a chain CC that’s what it is most effective for. I would rather have the CC immunity.

As for the conditions, I don’t quite follow. We are guardians, conditions shouldn’t really be that big of an issue. We have a passive condition removal on a trait, a passive on a heal if you take it, the one on the heal can be buffed to two passively. We also have quite a few utilities that allow us to either remove conditions, or convert them. Then if all of that fails we have light fields.

If you have less guardians in your zerg, who will stack retaliation? Who will provide group stability? Will he warriors place a different area denial every 15 seconds? Contrary to popular belief, the guardian’s job is not to heal a zerg, but he is responsible to a lot of other major roles no other class can accomplish. In essence, they form the spine of your zerg. Any other class is replacable IMHO.

Amins.3710:

Lord Trejgon.2809:

shadowraith.9124:

I do rate shelter and should have mentioned that. However, renewed focus comes at the cost of tome of courage which is our absolute best skill for group support.

I have good survivability with my guardian but that is specced and geared full bunker. A warrior can achieve the same or better survivability (for long enough for a zerg clash to be concluded) while doing twice the damage! (Better damage in equal gear and can get away with having less pvt)

Same survivability You say?
I’m not Warrior spec, but from my fights against warriors using both my ranger and guadian, They don’t seems to.
Maybe nearly no one playing warrior are giving anything to survi and just going berserkers and try to kill everything before dies (or just I meet on the battleground only those)

PS. take guardian support from those zerg clash away and then check if You are still correct

I’m not entirely sure you’re understanding what they’re saying….

They’re claiming both classes spec’d for zerg vs zerg, and you’re talking 1v1 roaming….

I “PS’ed” Zerg clashing Actually I tried to take both situation into my post – first part about 1v1 and some insinuation about zerg clashing without guardians

actually I’m wondering if we take someting like only-guardian zerg vs only-warrior zerg with same amounts of players in both sides who will win

Lord Trejgon.2809:

Amins.3710:

Lord Trejgon.2809:

shadowraith.9124:

I do rate shelter and should have mentioned that. However, renewed focus comes at the cost of tome of courage which is our absolute best skill for group support.

I have good survivability with my guardian but that is specced and geared full bunker. A warrior can achieve the same or better survivability (for long enough for a zerg clash to be concluded) while doing twice the damage! (Better damage in equal gear and can get away with having less pvt)

Same survivability You say?
I’m not Warrior spec, but from my fights against warriors using both my ranger and guadian, They don’t seems to.
Maybe nearly no one playing warrior are giving anything to survi and just going berserkers and try to kill everything before dies (or just I meet on the battleground only those)

PS. take guardian support from those zerg clash away and then check if You are still correct

I’m not entirely sure you’re understanding what they’re saying….

They’re claiming both classes spec’d for zerg vs zerg, and you’re talking 1v1 roaming….

I “PS’ed” Zerg clashing Actually I tried to take both situation into my post – first part about 1v1 and some insinuation about zerg clashing without guardians

actually I’m wondering if we take someting like only-guardian zerg vs only-warrior zerg with same amounts of players in both sides who will win

You mean like 10 ah guardians vs 10..well anything really. Perma stability, 25 stacks of might, lol at the amount of aegis/blind spam. Lol I would love to see that.

At the end of the day, can ANYTHING kill 10 Guardians?

Yes, 11 Guardians….

=O

/15surprisedcharacters

yes, out of date mango pie

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

You mean like 10 ah guardians vs 10..well anything really. Perma stability, 25 stacks of might, lol at the amount of aegis/blind spam. Lol I would love to see that.

I meant that would be funny to test zerg clash of only-guardian zerg with only-warrior zerg with same number of player – I didn’t want to give specific numbers to not be accused about how many players “zerg” actually means.

so yeah 10 guardians vs 10 Warriors could be but also 25 guardians vs 25 warriors etc. etc
that was about accuse that Warriors can have same survivability as guardians in zerg clash with much higher dmg

Warriors and guardians bring different things to a zerg, one is not plain better than the other. Warriors bring several useful things that guardians don’t like a low cool down aoe stun, aoe vigor, aoe fury and an aoe fear but they lack things like aoe protection and aoe stability. For a proper melee train you want a healthy mix of both with a few supporting mesmers, eles and necros.

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Lord Trejgon.2809:

Amins.3710:

Lord Trejgon.2809:

shadowraith.9124:

I do rate shelter and should have mentioned that. However, renewed focus comes at the cost of tome of courage which is our absolute best skill for group support.

I have good survivability with my guardian but that is specced and geared full bunker. A warrior can achieve the same or better survivability (for long enough for a zerg clash to be concluded) while doing twice the damage! (Better damage in equal gear and can get away with having less pvt)

Same survivability You say?
I’m not Warrior spec, but from my fights against warriors using both my ranger and guadian, They don’t seems to.
Maybe nearly no one playing warrior are giving anything to survi and just going berserkers and try to kill everything before dies (or just I meet on the battleground only those)

PS. take guardian support from those zerg clash away and then check if You are still correct

I’m not entirely sure you’re understanding what they’re saying….

They’re claiming both classes spec’d for zerg vs zerg, and you’re talking 1v1 roaming….

I “PS’ed” Zerg clashing Actually I tried to take both situation into my post – first part about 1v1 and some insinuation about zerg clashing without guardians

actually I’m wondering if we take someting like only-guardian zerg vs only-warrior zerg with same amounts of players in both sides who will win

You mean like 10 ah guardians vs 10..well anything really. Perma stability, 25 stacks of might, lol at the amount of aegis/blind spam. Lol I would love to see that.

1 Null field to turn all those boons to trash.

runeblade.7514:

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Lord Trejgon.2809:

Amins.3710:

Lord Trejgon.2809:

shadowraith.9124:

I do rate shelter and should have mentioned that. However, renewed focus comes at the cost of tome of courage which is our absolute best skill for group support.

I have good survivability with my guardian but that is specced and geared full bunker. A warrior can achieve the same or better survivability (for long enough for a zerg clash to be concluded) while doing twice the damage! (Better damage in equal gear and can get away with having less pvt)

Same survivability You say?
I’m not Warrior spec, but from my fights against warriors using both my ranger and guadian, They don’t seems to.
Maybe nearly no one playing warrior are giving anything to survi and just going berserkers and try to kill everything before dies (or just I meet on the battleground only those)

PS. take guardian support from those zerg clash away and then check if You are still correct

I’m not entirely sure you’re understanding what they’re saying….

They’re claiming both classes spec’d for zerg vs zerg, and you’re talking 1v1 roaming….

I “PS’ed” Zerg clashing Actually I tried to take both situation into my post – first part about 1v1 and some insinuation about zerg clashing without guardians

actually I’m wondering if we take someting like only-guardian zerg vs only-warrior zerg with same amounts of players in both sides who will win

You mean like 10 ah guardians vs 10..well anything really. Perma stability, 25 stacks of might, lol at the amount of aegis/blind spam. Lol I would love to see that.

1 Null field to turn all those boons to trash.

Whoaa…my warrior doesn’t have that =( I want it, I’m willing to trade. You can have..well you can have just about anything.

And to the poster above yeah, a zerg needs both. The thing is though that a zerg could probably do really good with just those two.

runeblade.7514:

1 Null field to turn all those boons to trash.

Takes some pretty bad Guardians to stand it the field for that long.

Christos de Soufre.3802:

runeblade.7514:

1 Null field to turn all those boons to trash.

Takes some pretty bad Guardians to stand it the field for that long.

But can 10 guardians fit in a null field? I mean with all our bulky armor and awesomeness we take up a lot of space.

Blasino.3128:

Christos de Soufre.3802:

runeblade.7514:

1 Null field to turn all those boons to trash.

Takes some pretty bad Guardians to stand it the field for that long.

But can 10 guardians fit in a null field? I mean with all our bulky armor and awesomeness we take up a lot of space.

Fit? That thing would just rebound over how sexy we all look.

SmoothHussler.6387:

but trust me, there is only one thing and one thing only guardians should be jealous of warriors for; swiftness and gap closers. That’s it.

Technically that’s two things :/

Parktou.4263:

SmoothHussler.6387:

but trust me, there is only one thing and one thing only guardians should be jealous of warriors for; swiftness and gap closers. That’s it.

Technically that’s two things :/

This is yet another example of why I say that the Guardian forums are the best forums.

SmoothHussler.6387:

...there is only one thing and one thing only guardians should be jealous of warriors for: mobility. That’s it.

Fixed
Guardians have some options for mobility. Sword, Greatsword, JI, and perma-swiftness when stacking boon duration + shouts.

If you’re a Warrior duelling a guardian
You’re gonna have a bad time

LoBo.1724:

Sure, you want to have some warriors running with you on the frontlines.

You DON’T want to actually BE the warrior though. Trust me, you’re a lot happier on the guardian.

Yeah but the problem then becomes never having enough warriors and very few of the ones around seem to like running hammer/sword+warhorn or they don’t want to run the elite banner or they want to run utility banners or they want to stack healing power and it’s enough to drive you to make a warrior. -.-

^ This is great.

> [would] the melee train of a zerg would be more effective with less guardians and more warriors?

The calls in my WvW guild tend towards ‘please bring a warrior or guardian if you have one.’ I.e. we at at least want more warriors and more guardians!

In general I agree with Lalnuir: you need a balance.

> You DON’T want to actually BE the warrior though. Trust me, you’re a lot happier on the guardian.

I’ve been having a great time playing the hammer/sword/warhorn frontline warrior. Being at the front of the train isn’t the death sentence I was expecting ;-)

Parktou.4263:

SmoothHussler.6387:

but trust me, there is only one thing and one thing only guardians should be jealous of warriors for; swiftness and gap closers. That’s it.

Technically that’s two things :/

Thanks. I meant mobility in general which guardian does not have much of compared to warrior.

daimonos.9831:

I’ve been having a great time playing the hammer/sword/warhorn frontline warrior. Being at the front of the train isn’t the death sentence I was expecting ;-)

Don’t let people tell you warrior isnt a great profession to play in wvw.

LoBo.1724:

Lalnuir.4957:

LoBo.1724:

Sure, you want to have some warriors running with you on the frontlines.

You DON’T want to actually BE the warrior though. Trust me, you’re a lot happier on the guardian.

Yeah but the problem then becomes never having enough warriors and very few of the ones around seem to like running hammer/sword+warhorn or they don’t want to run the elite banner or they want to run utility banners or they want to stack healing power and it’s enough to drive you to make a warrior. -.-

Try to “buddy up” with a random Warrior, forcefully hunt him down and make him your bro.

Guardian + Warrior makes for a killer team in a big fight and there hardly needs to be any communication in between them.

w- “were wi go kill??”
g- “Just follow me scrub.”
w- “k hehe”

DESTROY EVERYONE!
EPIC COMEBACKS!
OH NO!
OMG HE RALLIED YOU WITH HIS FLAG!
2H HAMMER CIRCLE OF GTFO! HUNDRED BLADES!
COMBUSTION SHOT! BINDING BLADE!
GET THE LEADER !
BOOOM BOOM YOU WON WvWvW FOR YOUR SERVER!

g- “gj”
w- “hehe”

Log out.

I kittening lol’d!