[PvP] The Patch and Meta in S7

[PvP] The Patch and Meta in S7

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

No competitive DH will use Signets in Season 7.

It’s as simple as that.

The Signet’s passive playstyles are that of Warriors…. to make them viable, Anet would have to turn DH’s playstyle into Warriors which is never going to happen.

Power DH is about as good as Berserk War, aka, Trash tier…
Sure, other classes got nerfs too but they got buffs in areas that are somewhat viable.

  • War’s Axe does stupid damages.
  • Power Mes improved.
  • Condi Thief is braindead aids now.
  • Engi Menders is their new dps spec, etc. etc.

We got… Signet buffs and… Consecration buffs… big whoop, that did nothing for us.
And Hallowed Ground is directly competing against “Stand Your Ground.” Yup, very unique indeed.

Lost build diversity
Condi DH performs 2x as bad thx to the added condi cleanses on other classes and the removal of condi sigils like Torment, Geomancy, and Earth. There goes my fun “somewhatviable” top 250 build.

Meta Symbolic DH
Now every DH and their mums are going to run Symbolic Menders.

  • It’s the only build that still performs like it did prepatch.
  • It’s the only build that can last a bit longer if you were to get +1’d by a power mes, power thief, condi thief, Rev, Engi, etc..
  • It’s the only viable “support” build Guardian has on point.

No clue what Anet were trying to do with Guardian. My only thoughts are… they’re getting ready for the new Xspansion. But if they nerf these items just to buff them in the Xspansion… i’m concerned with what we’re getting in that patch.

aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld

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Posted by: Fashion Mage.3712

Fashion Mage.3712

Meanwhile I’m lavishing in all these delicious nerfs.

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Posted by: Azoqu.8917

Azoqu.8917

Meanwhile I’m lavishing in all these delicious nerfs.

If you honestly believe Guardians needed a nerf, you must be really bad at dodging obvious traps.

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Posted by: Fashion Mage.3712

Fashion Mage.3712

Meanwhile I’m lavishing in all these delicious nerfs.

If you honestly believe Guardians needed a nerf, you must be really bad at dodging obvious traps.

I’m just loving how almost all of the meta builds got nerfed while “useless” skills got buffed. There’s so much yummy QQ.

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Posted by: Abelisk.4527

Abelisk.4527

Who uses Longbow anymore prepatch C_C it had no defensive skills at all..

These shaves are OK as long as other classes receive them.

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Posted by: AGGabriel.9230

AGGabriel.9230

This is pure mockery for the PvP/WvW guardian
They really want signets to be used but eny right mind guard/DH uses signets at that cooldown i better use SW
They nerf the DH trait line AGAIN (worst possible in the right place, i swear)
’’True Shot- The recharge of this skill has been increased from 4 seconds to 6 seconds in PvP and WvW,, is this really there hate towards the DH /trait that they are so proud of (or disappointed towards the idea of the skills/traits)
Our escape the med trait nerf (in some counter dmg )
And this ->Revealed<- this they give it for US or for the thief so synergize with https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed_Training

Do they even hear the Guards/DH players that desperate screams for the remake of some skills from weapons/traits that can make a difference in the PVP or WvW survivability or even PVE

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Posted by: MrPinks.2015

MrPinks.2015

This is pure mockery for the PvP/WvW guardian
They really want signets to be used but eny right mind guard/DH uses signets at that cooldown i better use SW
They nerf the DH trait line AGAIN (worst possible in the right place, i swear)
’’True Shot- The recharge of this skill has been increased from 4 seconds to 6 seconds in PvP and WvW,, is this really there hate towards the DH /trait that they are so proud of (or disappointed towards the idea of the skills/traits)
Our escape the med trait nerf (in some counter dmg )
And this ->Revealed<- this they give it for US or for the thief so synergize with https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed_Training

Do they even hear the Guards/DH players that desperate screams for the remake of some skills from weapons/traits that can make a difference in the PVP or WvW survivability or even PVE

They dont care ….its been like that for years , i think they think that necro and guardians are the strongest cuz the community cries that guardians are OP , they have no idea on how to work on them and balance their traits properly so….lets freaking nerf them …..oh guard does blocks for 4 secs unacceptable nerf it to 2 sec ! 12khp is enough

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Posted by: Kuya.6495

Kuya.6495

Thankfully it seems i can still run marauder symbolic dh and still suceed. I am peeved about the nerfs to f2, f3 and smite condition though.

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Posted by: ThatNAESLGuard.6238

ThatNAESLGuard.6238

Been working on the next meta build, we’re never gonna be as good as last meta with longbow as we were last meta, and symbols is simply a bad build in pvp besides pushing far and living.

Here’s a build I came up with that’s a good control spec with decent 1v1 and great teamfight/skirmishes (but haven’t fully tested). It uses hammer and scepter/focus and works best with a necro and revenant (power or condi) to hit your target that you cc. It plays a lot like old hammer spec played if you remember that “fun” build. I haven’t tested it that much so let me know any feedback.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAS7dn8cCVDhFCBmDB8DhlEi6aZDgEIL/+wAUe5j+rH-TJBHQBA4CAAw9H0WZAx9AAAA

Scepter/focus should be cleansing and anullment.
The only sigil that’s adjustable on this build is cleansing, others are required. Anullment is a busted sigil btw, everyone should be running it.

You’ll probably love the busted hammer swap into mightyblow, it just reks things. Yes I think bane signet is a real pick, test of faith has been nerfed 1 too many times to be that good right now. Enjoy deleting the OP thieves with 1 skill and forcing dodges with signet stow spamming.

Darek.1836

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Posted by: Legiion.7385

Legiion.7385

Been working on the next meta build, we’re never gonna be as good as last meta with longbow as we were last meta, and symbols is simply a bad build in pvp besides pushing far and living.

Here’s a build I came up with that’s a good control spec with decent 1v1 and great teamfight/skirmishes (but haven’t fully tested). It uses hammer and scepter/focus and works best with a necro and revenant (power or condi) to hit your target that you cc. It plays a lot like old hammer spec played if you remember that “fun” build. I haven’t tested it that much so let me know any feedback.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAS7dn8cCVDhFCBmDB8DhlEi6aZDgEIL/+wAUe5j+rH-TJBHQBA4CAAw9H0WZAx9AAAA

Scepter/focus should be cleansing and anullment.
The only sigil that’s adjustable on this build is cleansing, others are required. Anullment is a busted sigil btw, everyone should be running it.

You’ll probably love the busted hammer swap into mightyblow, it just reks things. Yes I think bane signet is a real pick, test of faith has been nerfed 1 too many times to be that good right now. Enjoy deleting the OP thieves with 1 skill and forcing dodges with signet stow spamming.

Next meta build xD …dude u will get pwned with the new condi meta u only have 3 condicleans (6 conditions u can clean).
Why u use DH if u only use the heal trap and don’t tof?
Ur saying symbols are bad but u use a weapon with heavy symbol dmg …..and hammer has symbols too.
Ur right if u wanted to say ,that wasting ur points in honor trait line is useless .
But I don’t think this will be next meta .
I think it will be S/S / S/F
Virtues , DH and Valor

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Posted by: ThatNAESLGuard.6238

ThatNAESLGuard.6238

Been working on the next meta build, we’re never gonna be as good as last meta with longbow as we were last meta, and symbols is simply a bad build in pvp besides pushing far and living.

Here’s a build I came up with that’s a good control spec with decent 1v1 and great teamfight/skirmishes (but haven’t fully tested). It uses hammer and scepter/focus and works best with a necro and revenant (power or condi) to hit your target that you cc. It plays a lot like old hammer spec played if you remember that “fun” build. I haven’t tested it that much so let me know any feedback.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAS7dn8cCVDhFCBmDB8DhlEi6aZDgEIL/+wAUe5j+rH-TJBHQBA4CAAw9H0WZAx9AAAA

Scepter/focus should be cleansing and anullment.
The only sigil that’s adjustable on this build is cleansing, others are required. Anullment is a busted sigil btw, everyone should be running it.

You’ll probably love the busted hammer swap into mightyblow, it just reks things. Yes I think bane signet is a real pick, test of faith has been nerfed 1 too many times to be that good right now. Enjoy deleting the OP thieves with 1 skill and forcing dodges with signet stow spamming.

Next meta build xD …dude u will get pwned with the new condi meta u only have 3 condicleans (6 conditions u can clean).
Why u use DH if u only use the heal trap and don’t tof?
Ur saying symbols are bad but u use a weapon with heavy symbol dmg …..and hammer has symbols too.
Ur right if u wanted to say ,that wasting ur points in honor trait line is useless .
But I don’t think this will be next meta .
I think it will be S/S / S/F
Virtues , DH and Valor

I’ll let you know how our scrims vs abjured go in the next couple days while you face silver players in unranked q.
Also learn2 blast finish, it’s actually a thing.

Darek.1836

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Posted by: Fashion Mage.3712

Fashion Mage.3712

And this ->Revealed<- this they give it for US or for the thief so synergize with https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed_Training

Firstly, it’s highly unlikely any thief would take Revealed Training over Panic Strike. Secondly, if you think being revealed for 6 seconds is a good thing for thieves, I don’t think there’s any arguing with you.

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Posted by: GrahamW.5397

GrahamW.5397

This is pure mockery for the PvP/WvW guardian
They really want signets to be used but eny right mind guard/DH uses signets at that cooldown i better use SW
They nerf the DH trait line AGAIN (worst possible in the right place, i swear)
’’True Shot- The recharge of this skill has been increased from 4 seconds to 6 seconds in PvP and WvW,, is this really there hate towards the DH /trait that they are so proud of (or disappointed towards the idea of the skills/traits)
Our escape the med trait nerf (in some counter dmg )
And this ->Revealed<- this they give it for US or for the thief so synergize with https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed_Training

Do they even hear the Guards/DH players that desperate screams for the remake of some skills from weapons/traits that can make a difference in the PVP or WvW survivability or even PVE

WvW guardian is fine, as is PVE guard.

WvW the only nerf to dh that applied was the extra 2s on true shot and the 1s loss on the shield of courage duration, which imo without the other nerfs on top of them isn’t all that bad. DH wasn’t really used outside of roaming anyway so its not like it really affects our place in WvW group comps much at all since base guard is far superior for larger groups. If you did want to use DH it was generally for a more pirate ship play style since you lose a lot of sustain by taking it. Pulling people in to your group to create downs with f1 and using lb 5 to trap people in clumps before you moved in to bomb them with necros. The extra 2s on true shot doesn’t really affect how longbow was being used and the f3 lasting for 3 seconds is still plenty of time since you rotate using them with the other DH’s.

For PvE, longbow wasn’t used, at all. Scepter/torch and hammer are by far the superior options for the role that guardians play in PvE. The nerfs/changes don’t really affect PvE at all

Then there’s PvP…. There’s honestly nothing good at all to say about this patch for guardian in PvP. This is a depressing patch if you play a guardian. Massive unneeded nerfs to our sustain and damage. Starting with test of faith, yet again another nerf, 10% reduced damage, just..why? The damage on this was fine it didn’t need to be nerfed again. Damage on smite condition when you have a condition on you nerfed by 21% again, why was this needed? No seriously why? On top of that they nerf the base healing on Wings of Resolve by 21%? AND add 15s to the cool down of Hunters Determination? AND add 15s to the cool down of Renewed Focus???? I just don’t understand how anyone at anet looked at these changes and said “oh yeah that looks fine put it through”. For a class that lives and dies around managing its cooldowns, we lost enough damage and sustain between these changes for our management of them to not even matter because these nerfs are kittening asinine. What a kittening complete joke of a patch for guardians in pvp. All these changes do is kill diversity in the class, shoving power builds more and more out of the realm of viability.

TLDR – Hope you didn’t like playing offensive, power damage DH builds in PvP.

(edited by GrahamW.5397)

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

Been working on the next meta build, we’re never gonna be as good as last meta with longbow as we were last meta, and symbols is simply a bad build in pvp besides pushing far and living.

Here’s a build I came up with that’s a good control spec with decent 1v1 and great teamfight/skirmishes (but haven’t fully tested). It uses hammer and scepter/focus and works best with a necro and revenant (power or condi) to hit your target that you cc. It plays a lot like old hammer spec played if you remember that “fun” build. I haven’t tested it that much so let me know any feedback.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAS7dn8cCVDhFCBmDB8DhlEi6aZDgEIL/+wAUe5j+rH-TJBHQBA4CAAw9H0WZAx9AAAA

Scepter/focus should be cleansing and anullment.
The only sigil that’s adjustable on this build is cleansing, others are required. Anullment is a busted sigil btw, everyone should be running it.

You’ll probably love the busted hammer swap into mightyblow, it just reks things. Yes I think bane signet is a real pick, test of faith has been nerfed 1 too many times to be that good right now. Enjoy deleting the OP thieves with 1 skill and forcing dodges with signet stow spamming.

I have a couple questions with the build.

Bane signet doesn’t out damage ToF or PoB so I’m sure you’re not using it for damages. As a CC option, it could work but that aspect would be most noticeable on side points. It’s dodgeable, blockable and can miss from blinds IIRC (been a while) so it may not be very reliant in it’s activation.

My issues with hammer is that, the downtime between skills can suck especially when trying to chase some one, but hence the amulet. I don’t see you doing well vs a power war or Mesmer. Hamguard performed worse last season compared to other builds, so I’m curious how much better can its burst be this season when Symbolic is just as good if not better compared to last season.

With regards,

aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld

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Posted by: Shaogin.2679

Shaogin.2679

I never played Medi Trapper last season anyways. Made it up to Gold 3 playing Maurauder Symbolic, but then again I get I’m just a Gold League player and what works for me might not work for others in Platinum+. But I’ll be going into this season playing the same old Sword/Focus Scepter/Shield Maurauder Symbolic DH. The f2, f3, Smite Condition, and Renewed Focus nerfs hurt a bit, but with overall sustain and damage nerfs it’s not too bad. It’ll be interesting to see more Symbolic DHs running around this season.

Doc Von Doom – Asuran Necromancer
Gate of Madness
Contribute to the Wiki MetaBattle Builds

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Posted by: Kuya.6495

Kuya.6495

Yea, probably going to see a lot of marauder and mender’s symbolic dh running around this season. Which means we better start finding a new build since that will be nerfed next once the thfs start hollering again.

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Posted by: Legiion.7385

Legiion.7385

Been working on the next meta build, we’re never gonna be as good as last meta with longbow as we were last meta, and symbols is simply a bad build in pvp besides pushing far and living.

Here’s a build I came up with that’s a good control spec with decent 1v1 and great teamfight/skirmishes (but haven’t fully tested). It uses hammer and scepter/focus and works best with a necro and revenant (power or condi) to hit your target that you cc. It plays a lot like old hammer spec played if you remember that “fun” build. I haven’t tested it that much so let me know any feedback.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAS7dn8cCVDhFCBmDB8DhlEi6aZDgEIL/+wAUe5j+rH-TJBHQBA4CAAw9H0WZAx9AAAA

Scepter/focus should be cleansing and anullment.
The only sigil that’s adjustable on this build is cleansing, others are required. Anullment is a busted sigil btw, everyone should be running it.

You’ll probably love the busted hammer swap into mightyblow, it just reks things. Yes I think bane signet is a real pick, test of faith has been nerfed 1 too many times to be that good right now. Enjoy deleting the OP thieves with 1 skill and forcing dodges with signet stow spamming.

Next meta build xD …dude u will get pwned with the new condi meta u only have 3 condicleans (6 conditions u can clean).
Why u use DH if u only use the heal trap and don’t tof?
Ur saying symbols are bad but u use a weapon with heavy symbol dmg …..and hammer has symbols too.
Ur right if u wanted to say ,that wasting ur points in honor trait line is useless .
But I don’t think this will be next meta .
I think it will be S/S / S/F
Virtues , DH and Valor

I’ll let you know how our scrims vs abjured go in the next couple days while you face silver players in unranked q.
Also learn2 blast finish, it’s actually a thing.

Wow u rly want to tell me that these “e-sports”players using something like this …
Sorry I can’t take u serious cuz u don’t even use ToF and that’s out best burst combo ….but Hey they buffed signet

(edited by Legiion.7385)

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Posted by: Spartacus.3192

Spartacus.3192

i agree that Symbolic DH is better now. Its what i will play when i play guard in PvP unless i see something better,

Your typical average gamer -
“Buff my main class, nerf everything else. "

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Posted by: Permafrost.2695

Permafrost.2695

I’ll let you know how our scrims vs abjured go in the next couple days while you face silver players in unranked q.
Also learn2 blast finish, it’s actually a thing.

I, for one, am very interested to hear an update after your scrims. I think I know what you’re aiming to do, but unfortunately I don’t know if it will work as well next season when we can only solo/duo (and I personally just solo).

I’m pretty down on all the Guardian builds I have seen posted. I’m actually grateful I invested so much into Albion because that game might be the way to until the expac after this last patch.

(edited by Permafrost.2695)

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Posted by: ZhouX.8742

ZhouX.8742

“Power DH is about as good as Berserk War, aka, Trash tier…”

“War’s Axe does stupid damages.”

So, what did warrior get then?

Tanbin

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Posted by: Odokuro.5049

Odokuro.5049

Who uses Longbow anymore prepatch C_C it had no defensive skills at all..

These shaves are OK as long as other classes receive them.

If you have #3 on the bow traited it pushes those in it’s path, backwards, and #5 traps them in place for a few seconds.

Those seem pretty defensive to me.

The Self-Proclaimed Pervy Sage of Yaks Bend.
https://www.twitch.tv/amazinphelix

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Posted by: Legiion.7385

Legiion.7385

Who uses Longbow anymore prepatch C_C it had no defensive skills at all..

These shaves are OK as long as other classes receive them.

If you have #3 on the bow traited it pushes those in it’s path, backwards, and #5 traps them in place for a few seconds.

Those seem pretty defensive to me.

3 is nice but 5 is not rly defensly, it will root u too long

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Posted by: Entenkommando.5208

Entenkommando.5208

Personally I never liked longbow in pvp. 2 and 5 make you too immobile, 5 is always dodged anyways and since I prefer con remove over knockback at any time with the strength of condi there isn’t really a reason to take it.
I rather take scepter/shield or even mace and substitute strength in numbers for more personal defense.

R.I.P Kodasch Allianz [KoA]

All we wanted was a GvG.

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Posted by: YuiRS.8129

YuiRS.8129

I might be a scrub, but Symbolic vanilla Guard with Mender’s works fine for me right now. Not only that, but it FEELS like a Guardian. You heal, you excel at protecting areas, you buff, you dump on condis and you’re not even that bad at beating people’s faces. I hope Anet pushes for this style of Guardian to be the norm.

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Posted by: Buran.3796

Buran.3796

I might be a scrub, but Symbolic vanilla Guard with Mender’s works fine for me right now. Not only that, but it FEELS like a Guardian.

I can’t play Guardian outside meditations or DH. Fortunately did leave the class after S4. Can’t stand the doze from support classes.

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Posted by: Permafrost.2695

Permafrost.2695

Any update how the Hammer Guard has fared in competitive scrims?

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Posted by: Entenkommando.5208

Entenkommando.5208

I can’t play Guardian outside meditations or DH.

Yeah I think the biggest problem is that you only have 2 truly reliable condition removes, being Smite Conditions and Contemplation unless you wanna skill full shouts which nobody does.
If they added conremove to some other skills they could open up a lot more variety to Guard. I figured making purge remove a condition every tick could make it worth taking for example, since you got the consecrations trait in the Virtues line anyways.

R.I.P Kodasch Allianz [KoA]

All we wanted was a GvG.

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

I’ll let you know how our scrims vs abjured go in the next couple days

Any update how the Hammer Guard has fared in competitive scrims?

I too would like to know!

aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld

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Posted by: YuiRS.8129

YuiRS.8129

I can’t play Guardian outside meditations or DH.

Yeah I think the biggest problem is that you only have 2 truly reliable condition removes, being Smite Conditions and Contemplation unless you wanna skill full shouts which nobody does.
If they added conremove to some other skills they could open up a lot more variety to Guard. I figured making purge remove a condition every tick could make it worth taking for example, since you got the consecrations trait in the Virtues line anyways.

Traited VoR removes 3 conditions from the entire team, make it double with Renewed Focus. Symbolic Guard has Smite Conditions, 2 condi removal via Smiter’s Boon on heal, Absolute Resolution (x2 with Renewed Focus), Contempation of Purity, Focus 4 (less reliable, but not bad). All of that plus decent healing with Mender’s amulet and other Guardian defenses to negate getting hit in the first place, so surviving condis is not a huge issue in my experience.

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Posted by: Kuya.6495

Kuya.6495

I agree with the previous poster. If condi is the new meta, symbolic dh, whether mender or marauder, is more than equipped to handle it. Primarily thanks to Hunter’s Fortification which is what symbolic dh had over all other dh specs that helped it handle condi better.

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Posted by: Entenkommando.5208

Entenkommando.5208

I can’t play Guardian outside meditations or DH.

Yeah I think the biggest problem is that you only have 2 truly reliable condition removes, being Smite Conditions and Contemplation unless you wanna skill full shouts which nobody does.
If they added conremove to some other skills they could open up a lot more variety to Guard. I figured making purge remove a condition every tick could make it worth taking for example, since you got the consecrations trait in the Virtues line anyways.

Traited VoR removes 3 conditions from the entire team, make it double with Renewed Focus. Symbolic Guard has Smite Conditions, 2 condi removal via Smiter’s Boon on heal, Absolute Resolution (x2 with Renewed Focus), Contempation of Purity, Focus 4 (less reliable, but not bad). All of that plus decent healing with Mender’s amulet and other Guardian defenses to negate getting hit in the first place, so surviving condis is not a huge issue in my experience.

Eeeeeh..you missed my point I think.
Of course your average DH is really strong against condi, but it’s basically impossible to build a decent build without Valor and Medis, hence why I said that guard is much more limited in terms of builds than it would need to be.
Playing medi is the only viable choice because they give you everything you need. They give you a very good amount of conremove, a useful stunbreaker, some nice burst damage that can easily be timed, fury and healing. And yet all of that in addition to 2x Virtues is barely enaugh to keep DH on the edge of being meta.

Personally I’m trying to play a bit more bruiser-like right now. While DH isn’t very strong in teamfights anymore you got a very good amount of mobility and excellent 1v1 capabilities so that’s what I try to focus on right now.

R.I.P Kodasch Allianz [KoA]

All we wanted was a GvG.

(edited by Entenkommando.5208)

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Posted by: YuiRS.8129

YuiRS.8129

I can’t play Guardian outside meditations or DH.

Yeah I think the biggest problem is that you only have 2 truly reliable condition removes, being Smite Conditions and Contemplation unless you wanna skill full shouts which nobody does.
If they added conremove to some other skills they could open up a lot more variety to Guard. I figured making purge remove a condition every tick could make it worth taking for example, since you got the consecrations trait in the Virtues line anyways.

Traited VoR removes 3 conditions from the entire team, make it double with Renewed Focus. Symbolic Guard has Smite Conditions, 2 condi removal via Smiter’s Boon on heal, Absolute Resolution (x2 with Renewed Focus), Contempation of Purity, Focus 4 (less reliable, but not bad). All of that plus decent healing with Mender’s amulet and other Guardian defenses to negate getting hit in the first place, so surviving condis is not a huge issue in my experience.

Eeeeeh..you missed my point I think.
Of course your average DH is really strong against condi, but it’s basically impossible to build a decent build without Valor and Medis, hence why I said that guard is much more limited in terms of builds than it would need to be.
Playing medi is the only viable choice because they give you everything you need. They give you a very good amount of conremove, a useful stunbreaker, some nice burst damage that can easily be timed, fury and healing. And yet all of that in addition to 2x Virtues is barely enaugh to keep DH on the edge of being meta.

Personally I’m trying to play a bit more bruiser-like right now. While DH isn’t very strong in teamfights anymore you got a very good amount of mobility and excellent 1v1 capabilities so that’s what I try to focus on right now.

Ah, I see. Yeah, agreed. I actually like running Honor instead of DH aka free-to-play variant of the Symbolic build. All of those healing traits make you stronger in team fights and bigger/longer symbols help you force people off points and provide better cleave.

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Posted by: Entenkommando.5208

Entenkommando.5208

I can’t play Guardian outside meditations or DH.

Yeah I think the biggest problem is that you only have 2 truly reliable condition removes, being Smite Conditions and Contemplation unless you wanna skill full shouts which nobody does.
If they added conremove to some other skills they could open up a lot more variety to Guard. I figured making purge remove a condition every tick could make it worth taking for example, since you got the consecrations trait in the Virtues line anyways.

Traited VoR removes 3 conditions from the entire team, make it double with Renewed Focus. Symbolic Guard has Smite Conditions, 2 condi removal via Smiter’s Boon on heal, Absolute Resolution (x2 with Renewed Focus), Contempation of Purity, Focus 4 (less reliable, but not bad). All of that plus decent healing with Mender’s amulet and other Guardian defenses to negate getting hit in the first place, so surviving condis is not a huge issue in my experience.

Eeeeeh..you missed my point I think.
Of course your average DH is really strong against condi, but it’s basically impossible to build a decent build without Valor and Medis, hence why I said that guard is much more limited in terms of builds than it would need to be.
Playing medi is the only viable choice because they give you everything you need. They give you a very good amount of conremove, a useful stunbreaker, some nice burst damage that can easily be timed, fury and healing. And yet all of that in addition to 2x Virtues is barely enaugh to keep DH on the edge of being meta.

Personally I’m trying to play a bit more bruiser-like right now. While DH isn’t very strong in teamfights anymore you got a very good amount of mobility and excellent 1v1 capabilities so that’s what I try to focus on right now.

Ah, I see. Yeah, agreed. I actually like running Honor instead of DH aka free-to-play variant of the Symbolic build. All of those healing traits make you stronger in team fights and bigger/longer symbols help you force people off points and provide better cleave.

Yeah I love to play symbolic as well, but always with DH. In the past 2 seasons up to about Plat1 I could carry entire games simply by holding points 1v2 with this build, but above that level people finally knew how to counter a DH so I had to settle more for teamplay.
However I’m having doubts about how possible this still is with the recent nerfs :/

R.I.P Kodasch Allianz [KoA]

All we wanted was a GvG.

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Posted by: steelheart.7386

steelheart.7386

A lot of classes got weaker. As for being trash tier thats probably half the classes right now. When you spend a fair amount of time at the top you should expect to spend some time at the bottom. I can’t say Im happy where the class is but I wasn’t happy when DH was strong either because I dont like that play style at all. It totally didnt fit the class concept. I would just not play Guardian this pvp season. Hopefully A-net will get the message and buff things that make sense. To me guardians should be support. Either offense oriented with a little support or defense oriented with a lot of support. But always an element of support should be involved. Guardian as full out dps was never meant to be a thing imo.

(edited by steelheart.7386)

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

To me guardians should be support. Either offense oriented with a little support or defense oriented with a lot of support. But always an element of support should be involved. Guardian as full out dps was never meant to be a thing imo.

I always though of Guardian as this Paladin type class with a sword and shield, doing chivalry type jobs and protecting people as oppose to a Monk who straight up heals people.

I’m perfectly fine with Guardian’s big F3 shield, aoe aegis, and cleanses with mini-burst heals as oppose to numerous heals throughout a fight.

But we never had a Druid in the game until HoT so… a lot of players turned Guardian into that Monk/Druid/Healer type class. To me, that is not what Guardian was but I understand it was all we had at the time and people adopted that adaptation to the point where they don’t want to lose the Tomb of Courage role.

aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld

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Posted by: Permafrost.2695

Permafrost.2695

What’s your argument in favor of DH over the “free-to-play” base Guardian variant of symbolic? I actually like the base guard much better. It seems like it fulfills Falselight’s aforementioned “paladin” type role far better, at least when I play it, with honor over DH.

I honestly do not like the trap heal at this point, so if I’m going more defensive shelter is again a no-brainer. And I don’t like LoW as a heal with symbolic. It fits much better with the Aegis burst or burn DH.

Honestly, FTP Symbolic and Aegis DH are the two best builds for Guardians I have seen thus far. I’d like to make hammer work, but in pugs it’s just not performing as well for me.

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Posted by: Entenkommando.5208

Entenkommando.5208

Yeah the heal trap became really bad. I actually simply used the heal signet a couple times over this one. The trap already became annoying to use with the cast time nerf.
Arguments for dh?
-more heal due to wings of resolve (also allows you to kite a bit)
-more and longer blocks (duh)
-more protection uptime thanks to Test of faith.
-ez condition removal on block

Conditions really aren’t an issue for dh’s but since mender is your only choice you lack defense which is why I always go for high protection uptime. So playing mace/shield already gives you quite some defensive abilities, but ToF helps you even more, because it stacks even more protection and allows for kiting a bit (and does damage lol)

The biggest counter to your guard is a well placed cc chain. But people can’t do that below plat.
First time I actually noticed how vulnerable you are was right at the start of season 5. I never played ranked before, because I thought the seasons before were a joke, went straight to plat after placement and even got in the top 200 where I got matched against Helseth and his duo friend (who at the time was like rank 10) and kitten … I never got so destroyed.

R.I.P Kodasch Allianz [KoA]

All we wanted was a GvG.

(edited by Entenkommando.5208)

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Posted by: Permafrost.2695

Permafrost.2695

As a personal preference, now that heal trap sucks I would never take ToF. 1 trap is a waste, imo. I bring back JI and have full meditations.

I’ll spin through a couple runs this morning again on DH and compare my stats. This might just be completely related to my playstyle.

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Posted by: Permafrost.2695

Permafrost.2695

On a related now, now that Guardian is in serious flux for the first time a loong time, is there a dedicated discord? Do we need to make one?

(edited by Permafrost.2695)

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Posted by: Nusku.3941

Nusku.3941

Ususally when people say a class is in trash tier, they’re commonly associated with scrubnum mentality. With that being said, guardians are still pretty good, I would tell you what I run, but you wouldn’t care with that mentality.

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Posted by: Permafrost.2695

Permafrost.2695

At this point, trash tier is nomenclature for tiers below mid gold where virtually any build can be successful.

(edited by Permafrost.2695)

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

I agree with the previous posts. DH can and will reach Plat rank.

In the “Esport” scene where class viability on a team matters, that’s debatable but… who cares? There are no tournaments anymore aside from that one community tournaments coming up in June.

“We’re now trash tier” is a terrible mentality that simply doesn’t hold water in the PvP Seasonal Leagues. You’ll still see many guardians in top 100 NA & EU.

aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld

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Posted by: Permafrost.2695

Permafrost.2695

We could build a pretty sound Guardian community if we started a discord. I know there’s folks like Nusku who want to pretend to be experts after 1100 and 1300 seasons, but I think even he/she would benefit from discourse between players who have logged serious time on the class.

Every other AAA title has dedicated discords per class, so unless I have been missing ours, I think we should get it started.

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Posted by: Aeolus.3615

Aeolus.3615

Permafrost.2695, whenever rthey will buff guard they would buff other classes XD, that community would be a double edged sword

Still would be dangerous if player just wanted damage output to make the game more easy, instad of focusing on the real class design issues.

1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.