Guild Wars 2

here is an example of the new pyroguard perma burning build using tome of wrath elite skill

conflagrate hit 5 enemies in radius of 240 burning 4 seconds of +1k and 0.5-1k direct dmg
so potential dmg is 5 enemies * 1.5k-2k * 10-15 seconds => 75000k – 150000k
with no condition duration reduction (if with than divided by ~2)

Might I suggest for the next video you use the song noted below for your sound track:

Burning Ring of Fire…by the great Johnny Cash

I think it would have been appropriate.

Try the same with a real build. Forget the Conditionguardian. It will never be strong.

I feel like I do that much damage autoattacking with staff in PVT gear.

guardians will always have the spot of supporter in the group
staff will hit 0.5k-1.5k dmg from range of 600
maybe try to compare it to condition or power necro role as this build comes from the backline and hit aoe dmg. so compared to that i think this build yield far more dmg

Dat wrath. so much smiting! lol

I didn’t see you use the quickness at all, though. If you’re gonna use book.. you may as well use quickness.

Sorin.4310:

I feel like I do that much damage autoattacking with staff in PVT gear.

Yeah, and surpass that damage when I bother to put the symbol under the enemy group …

Awful build and logic. Almost all of your pve enemies will be perma burned anyway for the short duration of their life.

Therefore how much damage are you actually adding over what would have been inflicted anyway? Probably about 33% of a few burning ticks. And that’s why a condition Guardian will be kicked from any serious pve group.

fadeaway.2807:

Awful build and logic. Almost all of your pve enemies will be perma burned anyway for the short duration of their life.

Therefore how much damage are you actually adding over what would have been inflicted anyway? Probably about 33% of a few burning ticks. And that’s why a condition Guardian will be kicked from any serious pve group.

uhhhhhh I don’t see anything about PvE in this thread… at all…

To be fair I don’t see wvw mentioned either.
Not all of us have the inclination to watch a bad youtube clip or the ability to access youtube. You should explain the build and purpose in the original post.

Besides, both the math and logic are still totally flawed.

@kelnis – i didnt use it as its only 3 seconds with 2 seconds activation so its about less 3 attacks from auto attack. and sometime quickness result in massive retal dmg counter as you attack faster

again why compare it to the power build. you cant compare condition thief to power thief who is better… also here its a different role
power/support guardian will stay with his group always. as you can see i dont do that and go to punish the enemy restack when i can.

also staff is 600 range while mine is 1200 range , this build can hit 4k above 5 enemies while staff only hits up to 2k 5 enemies

my build force the enemies to cleanse and use shout and utilities erlier before they burst so my team has easy the finishing job

@fadeaway – who said it was pve build. pve is only power zerk build

if you watch the movie you’ll see its not pve and also can count the ticks of dmg which are greater the 60k over 12 seconds time

the build is in other thread i post
but for you i will do it again shortly
6,1,6,0,1 meditation build with 100% burning duration and 1700-1900 attack and 1800-1900 condition dmg
i use full dire or semi dire and ramapger gear

the math
burning dmg (1900*0.25+328)1.33=1070 damage per seconds
retal 200-300 per attack
bleeding 100-300 per second
direct dmg 700-1000 per 4 second (if only hit different 5 ppl group)

min dmg per second 1545- max dmg 1920 per second

with tome of wrath its 4 seconds duration on 5 enemies
as i can hit multiply enemies every time

1545*5*4 =30,900 on 5 ppl group. now multiple it by (lets say) 3 group of 5 ppl is 92,700

pls explain where is the flaw on the math?

fadeaway.2807:

To be fair I don’t see wvw mentioned either.
Not all of us have the inclination to watch a bad youtube clip or the ability to access youtube. You should explain the build and purpose in the original post.

Besides, both the math and logic are still totally flawed.

There already is a build thread for this, this was just a video to show the damage. Also why so much hostility? We have new tools that need to be tested and I give him credit for actually going through and showing what they can do. There really is no need to call the video bad, or to say there is any flawed logic.

Bash.7291:

There really is no need to call the video bad, or to say there is any flawed logic.

“potential dmg is 5 enemies * 1.5k-2k * 10-15 seconds => 75000k – 150000k”
I don’t see any variable here which is accurate.
You have no guarantee to hit 5 people who aren’t already burning. With dire gear you’ll need like 3000 condition damage just to hit 1.5k dmg per second. 10-15 sec duration is totally random. And the k symbol in the output is misplaced. You can’t tell your wvw group to wait for the engage just because your tome is on cooldown. Simply hitting with staff will likely provide more damage output than this.

The up side is that you are covering other conditions and eating up cleanses which can be useful, but you could do that in pvt gear.

Crapgame.6519:

Might I suggest for the next video you use the song noted below for your sound track:

Burning Ring of Fire…by the great Johnny Cash

I think it would have been appropriate.

That made me

clearly you didnt watch the video
the main burning comes from me

adding stack of burning will prolong the duration
if you watch closely (its bit hard) you could see ppl burning for 10 second in average(just follow 1 enemy and check the tick)

and above i mention just for you the calculation of how hitting 1.5-2k per second

and you have just mention why ppl igonre burning (maybe till now)
ppl expect you to be pvt guardian so the dmg will be 328 only which is ignorable so they save their cleanse against poison and bleeding mainly and even when they cleanse it i can put it right away so the tick goes on.

and good player dont w8 to tell his group when to engage. he prepare himself
we were on coms in this video and i knew where my group going and whem hitting
if my tome is on cd you can see me using aoe skills like PF which burn for 8-12 seconds longer.
you can see me pushing alone in the front while the enemy restacking so they back up as most of them were on 50% hp and could gain higher hp while my group refreshed freely

i see you dont like this build and you dont have to ( so far you havent put any fact either) . i am glade other like it

p.s i am use to it (from my days as thief creating the build panicond full venom which ppl said its useless but when i put video taking down enemies in 3 seconds… you guess the rest

as Bash said i will try to test more builds and take ideas from ppl here to continue test them as see if they are usefull for me and others

Woot for the superduper, ’leet, “deeps or diaf”, PvE meta build!

Seriously, that’s getting old, and half that statement is ridiculous.

Thanks for posting this and taking the time to actually explore other builds and possible viability of them messiah.

There is one thing im going to suggest, and going to try testing soon hopefully, but messiah, try using some carrion gear as well. I took your spec (with a minor change, and used carrion in sPvP and have been flat out destroying people, to the point that they have been asking me about the build. But I am very curious to see how it translates over into WvW.

i test this build in spvp (also post video of it on my build thread)
i use rabid so 10k hp with high armor (as i didnt want to be burst down) – as i want to check the condition dmg which would be in wvw against 1v2 and 1v3
also tested carrion (no video) and dont want to SCREAM OMG with power
the video above i am using rampeger armor for more power and crit while having 2.95k armor and 18k hp so i could handle big groups

in wvw if you gonna roam take carrion/ rampager
try to be on 1200 base condition dmg and attack 1900-2100 with ferocity/crit
also try using staff for getting 12 stack of might instead of GS
(in fact you can try this build with full zerk as its meditation based. your condition will be 0-350 so alongside huge dirct dmg you will do 436-552 burning – my next test)

for group fight over 20 ppl try to be more tanky
the more zerk you are the less time you will have to dishout your dmg as you need to dodge more/ heal and move out

i am sure the more confidant in ths build the more zerk you can become to do more direct dmg alongside condition

Have you considered using staff with the pbaoe burn trait in virtues? Easier application, less vulnerable to cleanses, great at covering other conditions.
Also, apothecary gear for wvw support? All the sustain and ehp of healway cleric but with conditions instead of power.

All of this was possible before patch, so consider why it wasn’t being used.

I have a few condition armor sets in my bank where they have been collecting dust. I’ll see if I can have a little fun in WvW with them

Bash.7291:

There is one thing im going to suggest, and going to try testing soon hopefully, but messiah, try using some carrion gear as well. I took your spec (with a minor change, and used carrion in sPvP and have been flat out destroying people, to the point that they have been asking me about the build. But I am very curious to see how it translates over into WvW.

Mind if I ask how you live with Carrion gear? That ist he set that I’m using more or less and with 2300k armor I get melted by ambient bunnies. Of course I’m talking about WvW.

Group play I can live longer but I’m standing back. Solo roaming I don’t think I’ve killed one single person yet but then again I’m used to full zerk build and probably still need time to figure out the dance…

Crapgame.6519:

Bash.7291:

There is one thing im going to suggest, and going to try testing soon hopefully, but messiah, try using some carrion gear as well. I took your spec (with a minor change, and used carrion in sPvP and have been flat out destroying people, to the point that they have been asking me about the build. But I am very curious to see how it translates over into WvW.

Mind if I ask how you live with Carrion gear? That ist he set that I’m using more or less and with 2300k armor I get melted by ambient bunnies. Of course I’m talking about WvW.

Group play I can live longer but I’m standing back. Solo roaming I don’t think I’ve killed one single person yet but then again I’m used to full zerk build and probably still need time to figure out the dance…

havent tried WvW yet, only sPvP, :P

However the build i was looking into has about 2.8k armor, and around 21k health, its a mix of carrion/dire (with guard stacks)

fadeaway.2807:

Have you considered using staff with the pbaoe burn trait in virtues? Easier application, less vulnerable to cleanses, great at covering other conditions.
Also, apothecary gear for wvw support? All the sustain and ehp of healway cleric but with conditions instead of power.

All of this was possible before patch, so consider why it wasn’t being used.

33% extra to burning wasn’t made available before the patch, which is where alot of this testing is coming from. I finally got the chance to test it vs people i consider decent, and a carrion version in sPvP works, and works rather well. WvW might be a different beast, and is going to require alot more work and testing, but don’t just shove stuff off because it isn’t the “meta” at least yet.

as i love conditions way before it was meta i was trying this build concept before the patch and it did work (more slowly without the 33% more dmg) and with hybrid set

also other test it and came with the idea long before me – Ceimash
as i love group play i try to take in into wvw group play and not roaming

also i know its hard to bring changes into the game style ppl all around got used to
i dont hink group stop asking for healer guard. it is just an alternative which now more useable (as it does far more dmg than power/condition necro in group play but still we need necros to strip boon and poison/chill etc. so anet made change and give guardian more space to play with

with 300+hp we can go play more zerk build we can be more roamer and 1vX etc

and who knows if more ppl play it and like it, it can become meta and than anet nerf it …

I’m sorry I came across rude to begin with when I couldn’t see it was a pvp/wvw build (this truly is trash in pve), but I still think Guardians are in a bad position when it comes to condition diversity.

In order to understand what will and won’t work/become meta it’s important to understand why existing things work.
Condition engis, blackwater mesmers and necros for example:

Multiple conditions means great difficulty in removing them reliably. High chance you will cleanse something other than the most damaging one. Many of these builds can reliably apply a huge variety of conditions. How many can the guardian apply?

There’s no escape – How do you avoid an incendiary ammunition or a dhuumfire proc? You can’t. You can dodge some attacks, but dodges don’t proc failed procs. The proc will sit waiting until a hit connects. This is huge because your high impact hits will never fail you. Compare this with purging flames which has an obvious cast time and animation. Unless you can force a fight inside the circle, they will simply avoid it.

Low duration, high reapplication – further lessens the impact of cleansing. How many different ways to we have to apply the same conditions? Compare this with a staff mesmer with 3 clones out all throwing burn/bleed/critbleed every second.

Time buying – What abilities do we have to prolong the fight? Compare this with the sheer amount of cc/stealth/life vamp the above classes.

How much of the condition damage on a mesmer/engineer/necro comes from traits/weapons and how much comes from utilities? If we want more ways to apply our conditions we have to use our utility slots. A mesmer for example will simply load up on blinks and stealths. An engi can build up a huge amount of bleed/poison/burn without bothering with utils/sigils.

That was all from a spvp point of view. From a wvw point of view I think it’s as simple as saying I’d rather be loading up on group stabilities and regen/prot utilities. Damage you personally absorb via high toughness/sustain is just as good as extra group healing. Things like sigil of water are incredible at the moment so it would be a shame to have to put condition sigils on your weapon. I can’t even see the damage you are talking about – I watched the video and honestly the burning damage ticks I can see floating around even when you are attacking a stacked group seem both low and far fewer targets than I would have hoped for (I would have hoped that multiple targets would become afflicted by your burning, but I rarely saw more than the 5 most recent targets taking damage).

fadeaway.2807:

I’m sorry I came across rude to begin with when I couldn’t see it was a pvp/wvw build (this truly is trash in pve), but I still think Guardians are in a bad position when it comes to condition diversity.

In order to understand what will and won’t work/become meta it’s important to understand why existing things work.
Condition engis, blackwater mesmers and necros for example:

Multiple conditions means great difficulty in removing them reliably. High chance you will cleanse something other than the most damaging one. Many of these builds can reliably apply a huge variety of conditions. How many can the guardian apply?

There’s no escape – How do you avoid an incendiary ammunition or a dhuumfire proc? You can’t. You can dodge some attacks, but dodges don’t proc failed procs. The proc will sit waiting until a hit connects. This is huge because your high impact hits will never fail you. Compare this with purging flames which has an obvious cast time and animation. Unless you can force a fight inside the circle, they will simply avoid it.

Low duration, high reapplication – further lessens the impact of cleansing. How many different ways to we have to apply the same conditions? Compare this with a staff mesmer with 3 clones out all throwing burn/bleed/critbleed every second.

Time buying – What abilities do we have to prolong the fight? Compare this with the sheer amount of cc/stealth/life vamp the above classes.

How much of the condition damage on a mesmer/engineer/necro comes from traits/weapons and how much comes from utilities? If we want more ways to apply our conditions we have to use our utility slots. A mesmer for example will simply load up on blinks and stealths. An engi can build up a huge amount of bleed/poison/burn without bothering with utils/sigils.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNArfRlsApboVDxcI8DRR8QlT1BQD8o4c9PEE5AA-TJRHwAV2fIwpAAZZAAPBAA

This is the build I am using in sPvP. Sustain comes from meditation healing, damage comes from a combination of conditions and straight physical damage. Critical chance is very low, but is made up for with the fury from mediations. Burning uptime is almost perm depending on cleanses obviously, but can generally be re-applied very quickly. My burning ticks for around 800 per second. However, there is another big thing that really is not mentioned much, and something you overlooked. Binding blade adds another 400+ per tick. with just burning and that alone you are already at 1200 per second, add in poison and 3 stacks of bleed on a weapon swap, and the straight out 1800 power + 24% crit with fury on, and it adds up to ALOT of damage.

The thing you keep overlooking is that the damage does not just come from burning alone.Yes, it is the biggest source of this build’s damage, but with the other conditions, and the straight physical damage (i still see 3k crits on torch throw) it combines very well, and does alot of varied damage.

utilities and weapon i used in the video were for group play. if i wanna roam i will take sw/f and for utilities full meditation (some likes still PF as it cleanse 3 conditions and when you go in and out 1 more condition and also burn your enemy for 10 seconds)
so PF very good in group and solo play

meditation heals you for 1960 each one while merciful intervention heals you for 3920 or if ally next to you for 5880 which is like another heal
other meditation clear condition/s and teleport you

versus engi – so far it was easy fight 1v1 all i do is play passively and block their attack to stack them with burning. you just need to time it right and w8 till they use poison field which proc blocks like crazy. also use sword and focus to blind them and i hardly use my heal skill for heal alone (again i use it to block his attack)

engi dmg – while his burning can tick 900 he got also 2 more conditions which do dmg bleeding and poison but they stack really low so they can get to 1200-1500
while guardian can do the same as burning now hit 33% more dmg with retal, direct dmg bleeding poison etc.
also engi got cd on there main skills between 10 seconds -20 seconds while guardian can put burning almost with each skill they got. so you got window of minimum 10 seconds to do dmg 10k-15k.
one engi who farm outside our spawn kill almost every one who came out alone until i just stood and block and he died. after he got back he hit me and try to understand how he got burned while i was doing nothing and run away to heal . it was funny

now necro are whole different story — they are much much much harder to kill 50/50 chance (for me. and i play necro also) . if you manage to dodge the fear your winning chances raise up to 90%
all necros has the same rotation. he will fear you use #1DS #5+#4 and signet to put lots of condition
but guardian got 5 skills which eliminate the hit. 2 blinds skills and 3 block skills
also you got 2-3 conditions cleanse skills. so if he misses his hits with DS skills you got more easy time. so if you see him DS use focus to block 3 attack then #4 to blind than #2 sword to blind again to eliminate most of his dmg and proc burning which kills his life pool. if you manage that he can do nothing to you maybe 5 stack of bleed and signet which you can cleanse and got the same cd on the meditation skill.

as you can see if you 1v1 against enemy who is condition base the tactic will win here as both using conditions dmg

pu mesmer – hard to kill but cant kill you either as you got 4 heal skills available.
if you manage to immobilize him you win as he wont able to stealth. for me it boring fight. their condition dmg base on that you kill the illusion. and also you can block which proc burning on them also so just dont stand near them and you wont get bleeding proc. also mesmer will need time to get to hit you for high condition tick while you from the start hit higher so you got advantage for few seconds. also mesmer clone hit random and burning is for 1 seconds only.
if the mesmer blink i will use JI to him or sword #2 to teleport
mesmer got low cleanse skills so you got the upper hand.

p/d thief can be pain but also easy fight as again you can block but than they will SR to cleanse so again boring fight. if he get you by surprise you can be in trouble. so far all the thief (power or condition) who attack me died while some manage to down me but the burning took them down as they used all their utilities and couldnt cnd on me. if i got prepared than most of the time i won. again blind and block

pd dmg – 5 stack of bleed and 3 torment, poison in average will yield 1000-1500 +direct dmg can be 2k dps. as do we but we can proc 2k dmg consistently while thief relay on initiative and cd of utilities

ranger can be hard to kill as they got great healing skill combine with good cleanse abilities. so the longer the fight goes i think ranger get the uper hand. if you manage to immobilize him you got a chance

now all the power base profession tend to be easy to moderate to handle as they proc retal+block and got 1-2 cleanse ability so the longer the fight goes you got the upper hand

regarding burning proc. you can hit up to 5 enemies at 1 attack so you will see 5 procs in 1 seconds and if i hit other ppl in the clump they will tick after again 1 seconds so you’ll think its the same enemies. if you can watch it in slow motion you will see i proc it on different enemies so as they clump together you see ticks above their heads but its different enemy. i proc it on 7-9 enemies (the last fight is much easier to see that. watch on my left as i move forward the enemies on my left still ticking)

hope it helps