Guild Wars 2

Yashuoa.9527:

You listed only 4 roles and there are 5 people in a team.

Come on, you saw some teams in the pro league just using 3 Revs + 2 Mesmers and doing it fine. You don’t need 5 roles in a team -and much less five different classes- if some of those roles can be filled stacking unbalanced ones. Most of the teams were 2 Heralds + 2 Chronos and one slot to fill with either Scrapper, Druid or Necro.

Thaddeus.4891:

Maybe i’m alone here, but I liked most of the changes.

That said. It’s true that it doesn’t change 1) Spirit Weapons are garbage, and 2) Guardian have limited place in raids.

Which is IMO the two main problem with Guardian right now. Especially the place in raids.

That’s been pretty much my response. Traps did feel a little too powerful (and now they’ve been nerfed a little) while it’s good to see core guardian getting buffed a bit. YMMV if they went far enough, but they’re at least going in the right general direction, unlike some I could name.

Buran.3796:

Yashuoa.9527:

You listed only 4 roles and there are 5 people in a team.

Come on, you saw some teams in the pro league just using 3 Revs + 2 Mesmers and doing it fine. You don’t need 5 roles in a team -and much less five different classes- if some of those roles can be filled stacking unbalanced ones. Most of the teams were 2 Heralds + 2 Chronos and one slot to fill with either Scrapper, Druid or Necro.

I meant after those 4 roles, there is room for a Guardian/something else not in the team, instead of stacking a class. Or even guardian instead of one of the 4.

Didnt they change lately for ESL for example that you cant stack class anymore?
The game might go in that direction. As in, no stacking of the same build.

Besides which class would you want to stack over 5 different ones?
You are not gonna stack Thiefs. I have never seen a tourny with stacked Scrappers.
Bunker mes has been more or less removed.
Tempest aura ele arent in a great spot anymore. No stacking there probably either (if they get picked at all).
Mallyx revenants will have trouble with extra boon corrupt necros, the power rev glint heal has been given a casttime and the higher burst environment after the patch isnt in the revenant advantage either. I dont expect them to do all that well.

Besides a different class can also complement, rather than having 2 of the same.

I feel that ele, mesmer and revenant at least are in a worse spot than guardian.
Maybe warrior wont be more top than guardian either. Although support shout war might be quite good now due to Necro popularity and Tempest aura ele having been nerfed.

Anyway, not saying that what you mention cant become true, but I still think that it might not be all that bad. However lets wait and see.

Yashuoa.9527:

I meant after those 4 roles, there is room for a Guardian/something else not in the team, instead of stacking a class. Or even guardian instead of one of the 4.

Didnt they change lately for ESL for example that you cant stack class anymore?
The game might go in that direction. As in, no stacking of the same build.

Besides which class would you want to stack over 5 different ones?
You are not gonna stack Thiefs. I have never seen a tourny with stacked Scrappers.
Bunker mes has been more or less removed.

I would use a Reaper, Daredevil, Herald and Druid in any team composition, leaving the last slot to either stack a second Reaper, a second Herald or maybe a “I ignore your blocks” Berserker.

Buran.3796:

Yashuoa.9527:

I meant after those 4 roles, there is room for a Guardian/something else not in the team, instead of stacking a class. Or even guardian instead of one of the 4.

Didnt they change lately for ESL for example that you cant stack class anymore?
The game might go in that direction. As in, no stacking of the same build.

Besides which class would you want to stack over 5 different ones?
You are not gonna stack Thiefs. I have never seen a tourny with stacked Scrappers.
Bunker mes has been more or less removed.

I would use a Reaper, Daredevil, Herald and Druid in any team composition, leaving the last slot to either stack a second Reaper, a second Herald or maybe a “I ignore your blocks” Berserker.

I don’t think it’s as clear night and day though like last meta. You really had to run nothing but elementalists, chrono, and mallyx or you literally had no chance. Ranger was not really meta in the previous meta the top teams did not run them sure they were better then a lot of for just general pvp. Would a Druid really be that much better then a bunker guardian for example? Maybe it would be I admit to not knowing that much about them except the nonsensical daze spam, pet, and they can spam heals once they build up there mechanic. Would it be 5% better, 20% better etc? Questions like that matter because there is no way classes can be exactly proficient at the same role but if its closeish you can kind of make it work.

Buran.3796:

Yashuoa.9527:

I meant after those 4 roles, there is room for a Guardian/something else not in the team, instead of stacking a class. Or even guardian instead of one of the 4.

Didnt they change lately for ESL for example that you cant stack class anymore?
The game might go in that direction. As in, no stacking of the same build.

Besides which class would you want to stack over 5 different ones?
You are not gonna stack Thiefs. I have never seen a tourny with stacked Scrappers.
Bunker mes has been more or less removed.

I would use a Reaper, Daredevil, Herald and Druid in any team composition, leaving the last slot to either stack a second Reaper, a second Herald or maybe a “I ignore your blocks” Berserker.

What is so great about Herald after the patch?
Necro kinda counters Mallyx.
Power Herald has close to no condi cleanse, their Glint heal is not instant anymore and their autoattack dmg is lowered.
No Scrapper in your team?

Didn’t think the Dragon Hunter changes would hurt that bad…but, in game play, they are horrendous!~

brannigan.9831:

Would a Druid really be that much better then a bunker guardian for example? Maybe it would be I admit to not knowing that much about them except the nonsensical daze spam, pet, and they can spam heals once they build up there mechanic. Would it be 5% better, 20% better etc? Questions like that matter because there is no way classes can be exactly proficient at the same role but if its closeish you can kind of make it work.

I think that Druid is better in the current meta than Guard/DH due their heals are a lot more stronger, and that kind of support will be better in small teamfights than boons, which can be easilly rtiped off/corrupted in this new meat in which Necros/Reapers are the new top dogs.

Yashuoa.9527:

What is so great about Herald after the patch?
Necro kinda counters Mallyx.
Power Herald has close to no condi cleanse, their Glint heal is not instant anymore and their autoattack dmg is lowered.
No Scrapper in your team?

My bad, I forget abot Scpapper; I would chose a Reaper, Daredevil, Scrapper, Druid and Herald for team composition.

I would run Mallyx Herald, either hybrid (viper) or pure condi (carrion). Condition Herald remain almost unchanged after the patch and in my opinion they were stronger than physical damage Revenekittenn the previous meta, so oustide losing the
durability rune they are as good as ever -maybe better because now they don’t have to focus classes with celestial/soldier amulets anymore-.

So, Druid and Scrapper work as holders, providing sustain and support; Reaper is the main source of cc and sustained damage, whereas Daredevil and Herald provide high mobility (decaping) and good pressure through damage burst (DD) and insane condi aplication (Herald).

Guardian/DH is neither as good as holder/suport as Druid or Scrapper (also, those classes output decent damage while traited to be bunkers, whereas bunk Guardian hits like a wet towel, so they are viable bruisers, G/DH isn’t). G/DH isn’t as good as Reaper/Necro with cc/debufs, and of course our mobility sucks near to a DD or a Herald. I see no place for Guardians/Dragon Hunters in the new PvP meta.

LordCanti.7124:

Didn’t think the Dragon Hunter changes would hurt that bad…but, in game play, they are horrendous!~

what game mode?

in what game mode doesn’t the DH suck in?

*besides hotjoin farming trap suiciding ambers?

Buran.3796:

Yashuoa.9527:

What is so great about Herald after the patch?
Necro kinda counters Mallyx.
Power Herald has close to no condi cleanse, their Glint heal is not instant anymore and their autoattack dmg is lowered.
No Scrapper in your team?

My bad, I forget abot Scpapper; I would chose a Reaper, Daredevil, Scrapper, Druid and Herald for team composition.

I would run Mallyx Herald, either hybrid (viper) or pure condi (carrion). Condition Herald remain almost unchanged after the patch and in my opinion they were stronger than physical damage Revenekittenn the previous meta, so oustide losing the
durability rune they are as good as ever -maybe better because now they don’t have to focus classes with celestial/soldier amulets anymore-.

So, Druid and Scrapper work as holders, providing sustain and support; Reaper is the main source of cc and sustained damage, whereas Daredevil and Herald provide high mobility (decaping) and good pressure through damage burst (DD) and insane condi aplication (Herald).

Guardian/DH is neither as good as holder/suport as Druid or Scrapper (also, those classes output decent damage while traited to be bunkers, whereas bunk Guardian hits like a wet towel, so they are viable bruisers, G/DH isn’t). G/DH isn’t as good as Reaper/Necro with cc/debufs, and of course our mobility sucks near to a DD or a Herald. I see no place for Guardians/Dragon Hunters in the new PvP meta.

Condition Herald (Mallyx) has a stability uptime nerf and after the patch is a different environment. Reaper will counter them hard (the only class where they really need to use their resistance vs) due to the heavy boon reliance of Mallyx and Mallyx aint all that great vs reveing high power dmg either right? High power dmg will be around more and higher after the patch. Power Rev received a nerf to their Glint heal (first part is now a casttime instead of instant, so you have to let it eat energy if you want to have instant access to part 2).

Mallyx will probably not be terrible or anything, but I would prefer a Dh/guardian or maybe cc Shoutwarrior in that spot
or maybe a Power Herald (Shiro/Glint), rather than a Mallyx.

DH is also great vs the Thief class who we will often see this patch, so you can help protect your team’s Reaper vs them for example. You also bring 6 condition cleanse (3×2 with Mediation elite) and healing to your team, compared to Mallyx.
Tempest aura ele will be less popular now, so less groupreflects flying around on enemies (is more often able to deal dmg with our longbow).

But anyway, to each their own.
There might be several classes (besides the mentioned ones) who could make a good 5ft.

The only way guardians will die is if we abandon it. Stay strong brothers, show the world we still matter and refuse to go over to the dark side! For our time is soon!

Imagine Brian = arena staffs
Stewie = Guardian players
Replace money to “Guardian changes”
Best describe my feelings towards arena.

Sird.4536:

The only way guardians will die is if we abandon it. Stay strong brothers, show the world we still matter and refuse to go over to the dark side! For our time is soon!

I feel like most guardian players went to rev anyway :\

@Yashuoa: Evade + Unwavering Avoidance + Enhanced Bulwark = 60% stability uptime (3 seconds each 5), seems fine to me (DH’s Heavy Light grants 6 seconds stab each 10 but only provides 1 stack instead of the 2 stacks the Herald gets).

I don’t see what problem Mallyx Herald would have against physical damage users taking in consideration that 1) most of time they fight in Shiro stance, anyway and 2) they can spam conditions like crazy with auto attacks, which is one of the reasons due I think that the cleansing power from Guardians is overrated (was great before the stack system revamp, but not now).

The thing is: Guardian has now lesss cc and damage than before the patch, and before the patch our pressence in high level competitive gameplay (PvP) was 0.

Buran.3796:

The thing is: Guardian has now lesss cc and damage than before the patch, and before the patch our pressence in high level competitive gameplay (PvP) was 0.

Saying before the patch guardian pressence in high competitive gameplay (pvp) was low/zero and therefore it will be low now due to a bit less cc duration and dmg, doesnt work as argumentation (more condi cleanse and more often though)

There are more variables that influence this.
The environment after the patch is different. Less bunkery.
Other classes have been changed too.
Tempest ele, one who made longblow life difficult with their group reflects, will be less seen.

Maybe you will be right that Guardian wont be meta,
but I dont think that the argumentation holds as explained, due to many other factors that can influence it, besides the Guardian changes,
and because the environment after the patch isnt the same as before.

Mortifer.2946:

LordCanti.7124:

Didn’t think the Dragon Hunter changes would hurt that bad…but, in game play, they are horrendous!~

what game mode?

Mainly in PVP but, the loss of cc in PvE hurts a lot too. Its just so frustrating, that game has become unfun for me to play.

The bunkers got gutted yes, but the addition of mercenary and paladin’s amulet has made the bruisers way more tanky (and harder hitting as well).

the only class a guardian can safely play against on a node now is a thief.

Buran.3796:

Yashuoa.9527:

Dont know about pve, but how are we useless in pvp?

I wouldnt be surprised if a guardian build enters the pvp meta or does very good at the very least.

PvP, best sustained damage and cc: Reaper/Necro
PvP, best bruiser: Scrapper
PvP, best holder/support: Druid
PvP, best burst damage/deccaper/+1: Daredevil/Revenant

Those classes will have a place in any team. Not sure about Warrior (got buffed) or Tempest (got debufed). But for Chronos and DHs is pretty much game over: you will not hold a point as good as a Druid or Scrapper (and I even have doubts against bunker Necros) nor being as mobile or bursty as a Rev/Thief.

Before HoT most of players (Guardian mainers) were very critic about DHs, but at the release most of us shup up due the power creep did provide a -false- sense of viability. Was a mirage, no DHs in the Pro League. And I can’t see DHs getting a slot in the second season due the reasons above exposed. No place in a competitive landscape for a class which doesn’t bring any remarkable to the table. We aren’t the best dps class, neither the best bunkers or the best at support, and our best builds at the moment doesn’t even bring too much support, to be honest.

ur missing quite a few factors imho.

Revenant will not be a top Sustained DPSer anymore, as its DPS is only effective now when the target is isolated on the majority, they arnt going to output the damage they were as a result of the nerfs to auto attack damage and UA, also their survivability is now below DHs.

Druid, is wiped in team fight focus and now a lot can 1v1 the Druid, the Removal of Cele and Soldiers has hurt the druid, they’re not as strong as they were. also they did receive Nerfs in themselves.

If thief is Top for a Section, then auto puts Dragonhunter above them, we’re the Hardcounter at its Pure form for the thief, we wreck them and they literally cant even stand uptoo us no matter how good they are, so u’ve just placed us right in meta with that statement given the fact they’re going to need to Counter the enemy team, if that consists of thiefs then the opposing team will surely carry a DH.

Dragonhunter is Stronger now then it was in Season 1.

Let me Explain why,

Thief is now meta, DH is a hardcounter even more so then base guardian therefore ur Now a Counterpick for a top pick.

its Zerker meta, so its all about that instant burst, DHs defintly have great insta burst, so our damage is more meaningful as a whole.

Auramancer/Ele got nerfed so they cant counter us as hard or at all compared to what they were, meaning no ones nullifying our damage at all now so we’re actually outputting huge damage with no drawbacks from the fact our major burst in put all into one ability.

we have higher Sustain then most professions do as a Zerker as our survivability is based on abilities and not natural defences.

If dragonhunter isn’t meta this time round, he’ll be very close too it, its actually really strong currently even with lower disruption levels it is still very capable and the traps still do a lot of damage if u set them up properly the only thing is its easier for them to dodge it if ur trying to just run around and Spam traps to bait people with.

ur discounting the factor we’re a very rounded profession, the thief may be able to do more instant damage on initation then the Dragonhunter, but the Dragonhunter has more Survivability and Defences then the thief.

a Rev may have easier access to boons but now they’re countered by anything with a pet or a friend next to him, they’re damage is pretty small against multiple targets and tbh they just dropped BELOW our DPS after the recent nerfs, havnt u bothered to read anything on the rev forums before slotting them into Meta?

in my honest opinon, currently the only professions who are garunteed to be in meta is Scrapper Reaper and Thief.

imho, u can play on node against Revenants and Elementalists, the only proffessions who give you problems is most proberly Necro, because how many boons u give urself and how easy they corrupt them now and the Scrapper because it has ALOT of inbuilt sustain by passively and Reactively. and Dragonhunter isn’t built to bunker points, so ofcourse bruisers outdo you there.