Guild Wars 2

Fragments of Faith, it was real.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Dragon-hunter-traps-instakill-thieves/first#post5585408

Edit Thanks for telling thieves before us btw T_T

There it drops. Ripperonis. It’ll still be worth taking the trait for but imo it should at least have the same power scaling as Shield of Wrath. This trap was the only reason anyone going the pure Dragonhunter route was able to win this weekend.

You will be missed, FoF.

Well it is bugged. So it needs repairs. But don’t expect only that to be nerfed they will nerf other stuff too as usual

This trap was the only reason I could beat Chronomancers with a 50/50 success rate.

Like that trap isn’t excellent without the triple damage bug.

RIP any sense of proportion or lack of melodrama the OP had.

Nike.2631:

Like that trap isn’t excellent without the triple damage bug.

RIP any sense of proportion or lack of melodrama the OP had.

Can you honestly say that you will slot it in a competitive pvp environment?

I highly doubt it, but I’m sure you will say “yes” regardless.

This literally was THE only useful trap. And the one thing besides the VoC change I liked. Without that trap, the damage potential of dragon hunter is awful. I knew this was going to happen, but fooled myself into false hope…

It was obvious FoF wasn’t working as intended. Depending on the target the trap would hit for around 2k-4k, now times that by two or three. It’s not balanced and any sane person should agree. It’ll still be a good trap even without this bug.

I reported it as well. I mean it sucks to see it nerfed but at the same time, having something that’s similar to Smite Condition dmg 3x is a bit much.

what was the bug? that anet made a useful trap for dh?

Well, to me, now, it’s still worth taking the trait for. However, I won’t consider slotting it and replacing one of the medis.

Arken.3725:

I reported it as well. I mean it sucks to see it nerfed but at the same time, having something that’s similar to Smite Condition dmg 3x is a bit much.

I agree. I was hoping that the third hit was the bug and the second hit was intended. The second hit at least made me want to slot it over smite condition.

Harbinger.8637:

It was obvious FoF wasn’t working as intended. Depending on the target the trap would hit for around 2k-4k, now times that by two or three. It’s not balanced and any sane person should agree. It’ll still be a good trap even without this bug.

I do agree that it’s damage was over the top, but going down to one hit, with that same damage coefficient, just does not seem worth the long cooldown anymore. There are other, more useful traits.

Drennon.7190:

Nike.2631:

Like that trap isn’t excellent without the triple damage bug.

RIP any sense of proportion or lack of melodrama the OP had.

Can you honestly say that you will slot it in a competitive pvp environment?

I highly doubt it, but I’m sure you will say “yes” regardless.

Yes, of course I will, because 5 on-demand aegis is crazy powerful in the hands of a Guard/DH. The un-bugged trap is still one of the most powerful tools in the DH kitten nal.

I highly doubt you recognize that, but I’m sure you will say “I know better than you” regardless.

Nike.2631:

Drennon.7190:

Nike.2631:

Like that trap isn’t excellent without the triple damage bug.

RIP any sense of proportion or lack of melodrama the OP had.

Can you honestly say that you will slot it in a competitive pvp environment?

I highly doubt it, but I’m sure you will say “yes” regardless.

Yes, of course I will, because 5 on-demand aegis is crazy powerful in the hands of a Guard/DH. The un-bugged trap is still one of the most powerful tools in the DH kitten nal.

I highly doubt you recognize that, but I’m sure you will say “I know better than you” regardless.

What will you slot it over? If you try to do an offensive Shattered Aegis type build, you’re going to have to sacrifice a lot of sustain by losing either virtues or valor. Maybe you have an idea for a DH Bunker build, but I don’t see any Bunker build being better than the current valor, honor, virtues. But please inform me on what you have tested or theory this trap into. I really want to know. Because as of right now, I don’t see it being better than the typical meditations or shouts.

Karl McLain.5604:

Alas, it was indeed a bug and needed to be fixed. A single skill that deals that much damage (from being CC’d, nonetheless) was a bit much. Sleight of hand was your best friend this last weekend in PvP.

RIP the only trap worth taking over a medi.

Drennon.7190:

What will you slot it over?

And that right there says everything about why you’re not prospering with Dragonhunter. Because you’re not making a Dragonhunter at all, you’re trying to tweak a Guardian build you’re already attached to.

Back way up. Look at your new toolset with fresh eyes. Begin again.

One of the things about being able to fight from range or making meleeing with you an unattractive proposition with mid-fight trap drops is you don’t need or even want the same tools you carry on a medi-Guard.

Will Dragonhunter builds be as potent in the first month of refinement as a build that’s been polished for years? It had better NOT be, because that’s just nuts both as an expectation and as really crap design work. But, give it three months and you’re gonna see both the play-experience and the build-craft mesh to generate some real threats on the field, threats that will kick you’re backside if you try to counter them like every Guard with a bow is just a handicapped medi-guard.

Sorry I don’t have a complete playstyle to lay out in front of you, yet. The class is still in flux and the DH fans have only had six days compared to 2+ years. But keep an open mind. You’ll be fighting against and alongside the real deal very soon.

NotoriousNaru.1705:

Karl McLain.5604:

Alas, it was indeed a bug and needed to be fixed. A single skill that deals that much damage (from being CC’d, nonetheless) was a bit much. Sleight of hand was your best friend this last weekend in PvP.

RIP the only trap worth taking over a medi.

^

Back to the skill bar we’ve used for 3 years, I guess.

Nike.2631:

Drennon.7190:

What will you slot it over?

And that right there says everything about why you’re not prospering with Dragonhunter. Because you’re not making a Dragonhunter at all, you’re trying to tweak a Guardian build you’re already attached to.

Back way up. Look at your new toolset with fresh eyes. Begin again.

One of the things about being able to fight from range or making meleeing with you an unattractive proposition with mid-fight trap drops is you don’t need or even want the same tools you carry on a medi-Guard.

Will Dragonhunter builds be as potent in the first month of refinement as a build that’s been polished for years? It had better NOT be, because that’s just nuts both as an expectation and as really crap design work. But, give it three months and you’re gonna see both the play-experience and the build-craft mesh to generate some real threats on the field, threats that will kick you’re backside if you try to counter them like every Guard with a bow is just a kitten medi-guard.

Sorry I don’t have a complete playstyle to lay out in front of you, yet. The class is still in flux and the DH fans have only had six days compared to 2+ years. But keep an open mind. You’ll be fighting against and alongside the real deal very soon.

That all sounds wonderful and great, but in an sPvP environment, traps are outclassed by other utilities due to long cooldowns and sustain issues. 5 Aegis fragments sounds great until you’re in a team fight and your 13k or 17k health, (depending on build), melts away because you wanted to slot traps over utilities that provide self sustain.

You keep talking like we have options outside of Monks Focus and Altruistic healing, but provide nothing to support it.

I’m pretty sure I just said I can’t yet. But I expect this to be an entirely different conversation by New Year’s Day .

Karl McLain.5604:

Alas, it was indeed a bug and needed to be fixed. A single skill that deals that much damage (from being CC’d, nonetheless) was a bit much. Sleight of hand was your best friend this last weekend in PvP.

Thank you far allaying the (rightful) fears of Thieves everywhere. Now get back to scripting your ‘where we’re headed from here’ posts for the rest of the professions in your care .

Nike.2631:

Drennon.7190:

What will you slot it over?

And that right there says everything about why you’re not prospering with Dragonhunter. Because you’re not making a Dragonhunter at all, you’re trying to tweak a Guardian build you’re already attached to.

Back way up. Look at your new toolset with fresh eyes. Begin again.

One of the things about being able to fight from range or making meleeing with you an unattractive proposition with mid-fight trap drops is you don’t need or even want the same tools you carry on a medi-Guard.

Will Dragonhunter builds be as potent in the first month of refinement as a build that’s been polished for years? It had better NOT be, because that’s just nuts both as an expectation and as really crap design work. But, give it three months and you’re gonna see both the play-experience and the build-craft mesh to generate some real threats on the field, threats that will kick you’re backside if you try to counter them like every Guard with a bow is just a handicapped medi-guard.

Sorry I don’t have a complete playstyle to lay out in front of you, yet. The class is still in flux and the DH fans have only had six days compared to 2+ years. But keep an open mind. You’ll be fighting against and alongside the real deal very soon.

The only real threat last beta from DH was that trap. Even with it being bugged, killing a druid or scrapper wasn’t easy. All the other traps are lackluster. Test of Faith doesn’t even have initial damage. For it to land damage, someone has to walk over it, trigger it, and then cross it.. like seriously you’re better off taking something with self sustain like drennon said. Now LB damage is going to be nerfed because thieves can’t dodge right after they steal or at all.

Nike.2631:

I’m pretty sure I just said I can’t yet. But I expect this to be an entirely different conversation by New Year’s Day .

Good point. Its just like all the builds made with spirit weap… Wait I mean signe…. Well I’m sure these useless traps will become less useless with time. Right guys? Guys…..

NotoriousNaru.1705:

The only real threat last beta from DH was that trap. Even with it being bugged, killing a druid or scrapper wasn’t easy. All the other traps are lackluster. Test of Faith doesn’t even have initial damage. For it to land damage, someone has to walk over it, trigger it, and then cross it.. like seriously you’re better off taking something with self sustain like drennon said. Now LB damage is going to be nerfed because thieves can’t dodge right after they steal or at all.

I am SOOO with you on Test of Faith. That trap is the runt of the litter by a wide margin. I’ve advocated it being a stun break and a light field just to try and give it a use.

That I would always put Fragments of Faith on my bar if I have the option doesn’t mean I’d put any of the other traps on my bar with it. And if I do put many traps on my bar I highly doubt I’d carry a longbow. Which is why I also push for getting Pure of Sight OUT of the minor slot. A greatsword/sword + focus trap-setter will rock, but it suffers from a completely dead slot in Pure of Sight and that’s hurting the Dragonhunter’s options for diversity far more than it’s helping the folks being lead by the nose with it.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Nike.2631:

I’m pretty sure I just said I can’t yet. But I expect this to be an entirely different conversation by New Year’s Day .

Good point. Its just like all the builds made with spirit weap… Wait I mean signe…. Well I’m sure these useless traps will become less useless with time. Right guys? Guys…..

I’m fully prepared to bang the ‘fix the %^(@ing Spirit Weapons’ gong Every. Single. Time. a dev walks in the room.

Hear that Karl? Fix the %^(@ing Spirit Weapons.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Nike.2631:

I’m pretty sure I just said I can’t yet. But I expect this to be an entirely different conversation by New Year’s Day .

Good point. Its just like all the builds made with spirit weap… Wait I mean signe…. Well I’m sure these useless traps will become less useless with time. Right guys? Guys…..

Exactly. I wish I had Nike’s optimism, but time and time again, it’s been proven that we will only ever play meditations or shouts.

Drennon.7190:

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Nike.2631:

I’m pretty sure I just said I can’t yet. But I expect this to be an entirely different conversation by New Year’s Day .

Good point. Its just like all the builds made with spirit weap… Wait I mean signe…. Well I’m sure these useless traps will become less useless with time. Right guys? Guys…..

Exactly. I wish I had Nike’s optimism, but time and time again, it’s been proven that we will only ever play meditations or shouts.

Yeah, especially if people don’t recognize how certain skills need to be adjusted (including the one that’s the topic of this thread) before we can get other nice things to play with. People can’t complain they ONLY have medi to play with if they don’t support equalization of the skills or even fixes on skills that are bugged … no serious conversation about balance can be had with people that cling to broken skills as a declaration of how those skills are needed for a profession to compete. Think about how silly that is. If you need BUGGED skills to compete, they NEED to be fixed to make a case for getting working skills that allow you to compete on fair grounds.

Drennon.7190:

Exactly. I wish I had Nike’s optimism, but time and time again, it’s been proven that we will only ever play meditations or shouts.

I make up for it by being a cynical monster in other areas.

Believe me, I’ve been fiercely passionate about getting DH to a good place by launch day. But clinging to an obviously glitched skill isn’t part of making that happen. It’s getting fixed. Great. Lets hope the other tweaks and minor adjustments to smooth out and enable a range of DH builds get implemented too.

Pure of Sight needs to be a choice not a commandment. Hunter’s Ward needs to stop being so polite and knocking 3 times before entering. Give me just that and we’re gold. A couple of the traps genuinely fall short, but I can work around that be not taking them. But those PoS and HW are issues I can’t tunnel around or bypass.

Obtena.7952:

Drennon.7190:

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Nike.2631:

I’m pretty sure I just said I can’t yet. But I expect this to be an entirely different conversation by New Year’s Day .

Good point. Its just like all the builds made with spirit weap… Wait I mean signe…. Well I’m sure these useless traps will become less useless with time. Right guys? Guys…..

Exactly. I wish I had Nike’s optimism, but time and time again, it’s been proven that we will only ever play meditations or shouts.

Yeah, especially if people don’t recognize how they need to take a hit before we can get other nice things to play with. People can’t complain they ONLY have medi to play with if they don’t support equalization of the skills.

Or simply add sustain traits for those utilies. I don’t know why you’re so hellbent on nerfing our only semi viable power build. This is guardian and this is arenanet. If monks focus was nerfed, we would go months or years before they made valuable traits that put us back in to viable burst roll.

Yes because having a one hit kill button is so balanced.
Come on guys be serious.

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Yes because having a one hit kill button is so balanced.
Come on guys be serious.

Unblockable Killshot/Gun Flame.

That’s three buttons . And a fourth (burn heal for adrenaline) or a lot of hits beforehand.

Nike.2631:

That’s three buttons . And a fourth (burn heal for adrenaline) or a lot of hits beforehand.

Not to mention it was also bugged as the trap hitting multiple times

Drennon.7190:

Obtena.7952:

Drennon.7190:

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Nike.2631:

I’m pretty sure I just said I can’t yet. But I expect this to be an entirely different conversation by New Year’s Day .

Good point. Its just like all the builds made with spirit weap… Wait I mean signe…. Well I’m sure these useless traps will become less useless with time. Right guys? Guys…..

Exactly. I wish I had Nike’s optimism, but time and time again, it’s been proven that we will only ever play meditations or shouts.

Yeah, especially if people don’t recognize how they need to take a hit before we can get other nice things to play with. People can’t complain they ONLY have medi to play with if they don’t support equalization of the skills.

Or simply add sustain traits for those utilies. I don’t know why you’re so hellbent on nerfing our only semi viable power build. This is guardian and this is arenanet. If monks focus was nerfed, we would go months or years before they made valuable traits that put us back in to viable burst roll.

I’m not going to speculate on the worst case scenario you could think of if medi got nerfed … that doesn’t change the fact that nice things are being HELD BACK because they can’t give us more paired with medi without being THIS side of OPed.

You started a thread complaining they were fixing bugs that you seem to have no problem campaigning shouldn’t be fixed. Not sure what’s worse … complaining you only have medi to play with or wanting to keep bugged skills to unfairly PWN everyone with. Seems to me you’re just afraid of change. Meta is going to change anyways … it’s going to be a hard road when you realize you can’t sit on your precious medi build and broken skills any more.

Nike.2631:

That’s three buttons . And a fourth (burn heal for adrenaline) or a lot of hits beforehand.

You’re missing the point. It seems the power creep is only acceptable when it’s other classes. I give Karl credit, it really seems like he wants DH, tempest, and DD to be balanced. Meanwhile other elites are running wild and it’s written off as L2P or whatever other excuse people cling to. DH has ONE high burst trap, that you sacrifice sustain for, and it’s quickly fixed.

I think the only point being missed here is that this is a bug that should be fixed. There is never a reason to keep a bug because of how it benefits someone. That’s just silly.

Obtena.7952:

Drennon.7190:

Obtena.7952:

Drennon.7190:

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Nike.2631:

I’m pretty sure I just said I can’t yet. But I expect this to be an entirely different conversation by New Year’s Day .

Good point. Its just like all the builds made with spirit weap… Wait I mean signe…. Well I’m sure these useless traps will become less useless with time. Right guys? Guys…..

Exactly. I wish I had Nike’s optimism, but time and time again, it’s been proven that we will only ever play meditations or shouts.

Yeah, especially if people don’t recognize how they need to take a hit before we can get other nice things to play with. People can’t complain they ONLY have medi to play with if they don’t support equalization of the skills.

Or simply add sustain traits for those utilies. I don’t know why you’re so hellbent on nerfing our only semi viable power build. This is guardian and this is arenanet. If monks focus was nerfed, we would go months or years before they made valuable traits that put us back in to viable burst roll.

I’m not going to speculate on the worst case scenario you could think of if medi got nerfed … that doesn’t change the fact that nice things are being HELD BACK because they can’t give us more paired with medi without being THIS side of OPed.

You started a thread complaining they were fixing bugs that you seem to have no problem campaigning shouldn’t be fixed. Not sure what’s worse … complaining you only have medi to play with or wanting to keep bugged skills to unfairly PWN everyone with. Seems to me you’re just afraid of change. Meta is going to change anyways … it’s going to be a hard road when you realize you can’t sit on your precious medi build and broken skills any more.

Because Medi is all we have for offense! You want Medi to be nerfed because you actually believe that this will lead to guardian receiving fixes. Anyone who has looked at Guardians track record will know that they RARELY buff or fix anything. It took THREE YEARS for them to listen to us and fix shield. You are literally asking them to take away our only semi viable offensive traits/utilities. It’s not like meditations are even take strong in the current meta. Sure some Medi guards see tournament play, but how many of those teams are actually taking first or second place? It doesn’t happen because there are better professions. We are simply clinging to our most viable offensive trait and you want to take that away.

Obtena.7952:

I think the only point being missed here is that this is a bug that should be fixed. There is never a reason to keep a bug because of how it benefits someone. That’s just silly.

Bugs should be fixed, but at least bump on the damage coefficient. I’m not asking for the bug to stay. I even admitted that the damage was over the top. However, in its unbroken state, it just is not worth taking.

Drennon: The hero we need and deserve!

If it’s only intended to hit once then it needs to hit harder.

It should hit for at least around 7500 in a Berserker set up. It’s a 36-45 second cooldown and it’s not unblockable like Ranger and Thief traps.

A condi spec Ranger will deal 12,000 damage to 5 targets and a knockdown with Spike Trap on a 20s cooldown, or 9200 damage with Flame Trap on a 12s cooldown.

A condi spec Thief will deal 6500 bleeding and 3700 Poison damage with Needle Trap + a 4s Immobilize! On a 24s cooldown.

And the Ranger and Thief traps are all unblockable.

Why can’t we have nice things too? Why must we be the most bland and pigeonholed profession after every reveal, every balance change.

Arken.3725:

Drennon: The hero we need and deserve!

Haha thanks. I know you and I both share similar concerns when it comes to this class. I really want to be more constructive with my personal feedback, but it’s discouraging when people are so content and willing to accept guardian as is.

Drennon.7190:

Because Medi is all we have for offense! You want Medi to be nerfed because you actually believe that this will lead to guardian receiving fixes.

No, I don’t want nerfs to get fixes. I want equalization to get diversity, and so do you as you’ve revealed by expressing dissatisfaction that Anet wants to ‘keep’ us playing medi. That’s not going to happen as long as Medi is the pinnacle of EVERY competitive PVP build Guardians have.

Karl McLain.5604:

Alas, it was indeed a bug and needed to be fixed. A single skill that deals that much damage (from being CC’d, nonetheless) was a bit much. Sleight of hand was your best friend this last weekend in PvP.

So change that trap to the reveal one instead

Drennon, it’s like you are reading my mind. Thank you sir…sometimes I read these forums and wonder if some of these guys want guardians to be in a “good place” forever, i.e. past over by the power creep.

There is literally a poll on the pvp forum of the best/worst elites and DH is consistently on the bottom in most polls, yet for some reason I keep seeing the same players praising this abomination as if it were the 2nd coming….

This isn’t the build I was originally theorycrafting, nor is it the “best” build I considered, but it’s a build I would absolutely be willing to run in pvp.
Shattered Trapper

My favourite trap is no more :‘( why is this happening, I hoped it wouldn’t come true…..NOOOO ;0

Sauncho.8076:

Drennon, it’s like you are reading my mind. Thank you sir…sometimes I read these forums and wonder if some of these guys want guardians to be in a “good place” forever, i.e. past over by the power creep.

There is literally a poll on the pvp forum of the best/worst elites and DH is consistently on the bottom in most polls, yet for some reason I keep seeing the same players praising this abomination as if it were the 2nd coming….

I agree with everything that is said here.

Karl McLain.5604:

Alas, it was indeed a bug and needed to be fixed. A single skill that deals that much damage (from being CC’d, nonetheless) was a bit much. Sleight of hand was your best friend this last weekend in PvP.

I had a post detailing its bugged overpoweredness, but one question that remains to be addressed: Will DH traps will see some overall “burst” damage enhancements to keep the feeling – if certainly not the raw rediculousness – of a power-burst trapper style alive and well in the Dragon Hunter specialization?

Setting up the perfect “explosion combo zone” by laying Vulnerability, burst trap, sustained damage trap, and elite burst-and-lock-them-in trap made for some amzingly fun PvP scenarios, particularly in Strong Hold. Baiting people into traps and taking advantage of the window of opportunity to burst them down with well placed True Shots truly made me consider maintaing Dragon Hunter in Strong Hold PvP. While I DONT agree we need the crazy damage that Fragments brought, I’d really love to see at least a 20% increase on its base damage, a 25+% increase on the sustained damage of Procession of Blades, and perhaps some initial damage added to Test of Faith, moderate increase on Dragon Maul, and maybe a slight boost to the reveal trap.

These traps need to feel punishing enough for foes to really take them seriously, while still not instant killing builds upfront with the burst by themselves. Without bugged FoF, the other traps simply do not elicit enough of a threat of damage to make foes think twice about assaulting my Stronghold Treb carelessly

so Karl finally responds to a thread…
to announce the only useful Trap is “fixed”…
after he tolled Thiefs first.

i give up.

karl clearly has no respect for us players and this profession.