Guild Wars 2

At the moment I’m not sure anyone finds the Grandmaster – Radiant Retaliation useful. I did like the concept of modifying Retaliation for Guardian’s into a unique additional Condition for condition guardian’s to use, but at the moment I feel this comes nowhere close to achieving the required goal.

“Radiant Retaliation: Retaliation damage scales from condition damage instead of power.”

The current problems I find with Radiant Retaliation & the transformation of Retaliation into a type of condition are:

1. Weak trait benefit: small damage increase with no other additional benefits (+10 Retal dmg, 2200 Power = 243 dmg, 1200 Cond Dmg = 253 dmg, Tested in PvP lobby).
2. 100% of the damage depends on your foe hitting you successfully.

+10 damage differences is not even a 5% dmg increase with no other benefit & this is a grandmaster trait! Add that in requires a successful damaging hit from your foe to apply the retal dmg & you start to wonder.

I really like the concept of adding Retaliation as a condition to guardians but feel as a condition the player needs to be able to apply some of the dmg directly to foes & not just through the passive Hit Me of the retaliation Boon. Also a Grandmaster trait needs more Boom for it’s buck:

New Radiant Retaliation
Apply retaliation’s damage to blocked attacks & scales from condition damage instead of power. Create a damaging retaliating aura that pulses every second around you damaging foes while effected by retaliation.

Retaliation Damage: 303.75 (eg. Relat Dmg = 0.25*Condition Damage)
Aura Damage: Uses Retaliation’s Damage (Pulses every second)
Number of Targets: 5
Aura Radius: 120

What I’m looking for is a retaliation damage increase of between 20-33% giving a greater reason to use condition damage instead of power. Giving it at least a grandmasters typical power level effect increase. With the small aura I’m looking at adding a method for players to directly apply retaliation’s condition damage without relying on your foes successfully hitting you.

I see the aura’s damage as a pulsing wave originating from the guardian which can be avoided by dodging, evading, blocking, being invulnerable or effected by resistance.

Could this make Radiant Retaliation useful as a grandmaster or does it need more? What are others ideas?

The idea is nice but the radius is laughably small & if it were made larger it would quickly become overpowered.

Frankly it would probably be best to just get rid of the trait and create something useful from scratch.

Or…could make it more skillful that only lasts 1/2 second that reflects the actual damage dealt to you? I’d assume that’s exactly what retaliation should be. Just my 2cents.

Pregnantman.8259:

I think it shouldn’t limit players for going condi or not. The way I think it should be is ‘Retaliation scales on condition damage or power, whichever is higher.` with some another effect to go with it. It can be `Retaliation now also deals damage when you hit a foe`, `Retaliation deals %25-33 more damage` or `apply Might (5-10 seconds, 1 stack) when you apply Retaliation to an ally` or any other crazy idea, but in any case it shouldn’t be limited to condi only.

Arken.3725:

Or…could make it more skillful that only lasts 1/2 second that reflects the actual damage dealt to you? I’d assume that’s exactly what retaliation should be. Just my 2cents.

These ideas would either be far too powerful or really wouldn’t fit the idea of retaliation.

Possibly, that’s why I suggested a very short duration.

Arken.3725:

Possibly, that’s why I suggested a very short duration.

Still though, with the sheer amount of ways the guardian has to apply retaliation it would be like reflects…… for everything.

Even if it only copied the damage you were to take and applied it back on the attacker it would be insanely powerful.

dont rework plz

just scrap and replace. this isnt even a GM worthy

How about these:

• Retaliation stacks in intensity (max 3 stacks)
• Retaliation reflects 20% of condition damage dealt to you.
• Retaliation deals 33% more damage. If retaliation is removed, deal X damage (300 radius)
• While under the effects of retaliation, you apply bleed on being hit. (3seconds, no ICD)
• While under the effects of retaliation, additionally reflect 10%of damage back to the attacker.
• Retalation deals x damage in a 300 radius for 1 second every time you are hit. (1second ICD)

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Arken.3725:

Possibly, that’s why I suggested a very short duration.

Still though, with the sheer amount of ways the guardian has to apply retaliation it would be like reflects…… for everything.

Even if it only copied the damage you were to take and applied it back on the attacker it would be insanely powerful.

You’d obviously have to reduce the ways of obtaining it. It’s funny you mention retal because I’ve seen Engineer’s with far more retal up time but that’s besides the point.

Just delete it and replace it with a trait that benefits power dps guard. It’s really stupid that there are multiple traits in the master slot that are really nice for dps guard but the grandmaster slot offers nothing at all.

The biggest problem is that it competes with Amplified Wrath: burning is much more common, easier to apply, easier to trait for, and has more EQ synergy than retaliation.

Until retaliation itself becomes a worthy boon to focus on, Radiant Retaliation (and any other retaliation related traits) will never be taken.

Oslaf Beinir.5842:

dont rework plz

just scrap and replace. this isnt even a GM worthy

I agree with this sentiment inconsideration with the currently designed Radiant Retaliation but not the total removal.

I believe at it’s heart transforming Retaliation into a usable condition for guardian’s would be a fantastic addition creating a unique condition build favour differing from other profession condition builds. Also this opens up greater possibilities for the boon, condition & control system for future designs not just locking us into current functionality & understandings.

They main thought here is the transformation of Retaliation into a condition & a condition that benefits condition builds. To take further why even keep the base boon’s functionality, make it a complete transformation.

Radiant Retaliation
Transforms retaliation you apply into a damaging aura that damages foes & applies vulnerability. Applies increase damage the lower your health. Retaliation scales from condition damage instead of power.
Retaliation Aura Damage:
302 – (Relat Dmg = 200+ 0.085*Condition Damage)
320 – 50% health threshold (Relat Dmg = 200 + 0.10*Condition Damage)
380 – 25% health threshold (Relat Dmg = 200 + 0.15*Condition Damage)
Number of Targets: 5
Aura Radius: 180
Vulnerability (8 sec, 1 stack): 1% Incoming Damage, 1% Incoming Condition Damage
(Aura damage is applied every second, 1200 condi dmg used for displayed values)

The idea is that you become more dangerous the closer to death you become (eg. you shine brighter). I feel the core condition guardian is a more melee centric playstyle & have design this trait with melee range in mind. The other main aspect is the sustained pressure to foes making it more dangerous the longer their engaged.

Again this traits idea is not to improve / adjust Retaliation – The Boon but turn retaliation into a condition useful for condition builds & also change guardian retaliation gameplay.

On the note of;

Pregnantman.8259:

I think it shouldn’t limit players for going condi or not. The way I think it should be is ‘Retaliation scales on condition damage or power, whichever is higher.` with some another effect to go with it. It can be `Retaliation now also deals damage when you hit a foe`, `Retaliation deals %25-33 more damage` or `apply Might (5-10 seconds, 1 stack) when you apply Retaliation to an ally` or any other crazy idea, but in any case it shouldn’t be limited to condi only.

I fall into the group that would like to see Retaliation scale with Toughness instead of Power. My reasons are:

• Retaliation feels like it should be the damage enhancement for defensive build helping close the damaging gap between builds instead of increasing it further. No longer being the wet noddle everyone can ignore.
• Damaging builds already get plenty of damage enhancements from boons that benefit them more then other builds (Fury, Might, Quickness).
• With retaliation you want to be hit which plays well with defensive gameplay but seems at odd with damaging gameplay as your trying to avoid as much damage as possible.
• It adds a benefit to skills & effects for defensive stats also increasing the benefits of defensive stats in active gameplay instead of leaving them as passive stats that only effect you armour or health pool. Giving greater reason to have these stats on your equipment.

ZoroDaOtter.3859:

The biggest problem is that it competes with Amplified Wrath: burning is much more common, easier to apply, easier to trait for, and has more EQ synergy than retaliation.

Until retaliation itself becomes a worthy boon to focus on, Radiant Retaliation (and any other retaliation related traits) will never be taken.

And this is half the problem it just doesn’t compete as a grandmaster. Using just 1200 stat increase from PvP Amulets and you don’t even get a 5% damage increase for swapping to using condition damage over power. Minor traits have a greater impact. It also doesn’t change your playstyle with retaliation having little to no impact that you almost don’t even notice it.

The other side is retaliation scales with Power gaining greater benefit from a offensive stat & it requires you to be hit to receive any benefit form retaliation. Offensive builds typically don’t want to be hit which greatly reduces the benefit one would get from retaliation. On the other hand defensive builds are design to take hits which would gain the greatest benefit from retaliation but typically don’t focus on Power as a stat as such their retal’s has reduced damage again provide greatly reduce overall benefit.

Also to note Retaliation is typically tied to defensive skills. If you follow that line of thought you would almost think it should scale with defensive stats. If it did it would have the benefit of slightly reducing offensive builds overall damage & increase defensive builds damage (hard noddle not wet) reducing the overall damage gap between play styles.

Arken.3725:

Or…could make it more skillful that only lasts 1/2 second that reflects the actual damage dealt to you? I’d assume that’s exactly what retaliation should be. Just my 2cents.

Just needs to reflect 33% damage just like Retribution in GW1.

i don’t think that’s going to happen.

retaliation could get pretty out of control in earlier patches and they dont want that to happen again.

maybe something like taking a retaliation damage applies vulnerability?

warherox.7943:

Arken.3725:

Or…could make it more skillful that only lasts 1/2 second that reflects the actual damage dealt to you? I’d assume that’s exactly what retaliation should be. Just my 2cents.

Just needs to reflect 33% damage just like Retribution in GW1.

Even with swapping to a % of damage I feel it would still be left in much the same state it’s currently in. As a passive unavoidable damage for attacking is not a mechanic many players like to play against.

An idea I thought of to change Retaliation from a passive unavoidable damage to active damage is as a next skill damage enhancement (number or for a time limit). Again I’m still placing Retaliation as a defensive play style enhancement (scaling with toughness).

Retaliation
Taking x% of damage within 2 sec increases your outgoing skills damage by x% for 3 sec.

or

Taking x% of damage within 2 sec increases next “x” number of skills damage by 25-50%.

D I V A.6018:

How about these:

• Retaliation stacks in intensity (max 3 stacks)
• Retaliation reflects 20% of condition damage dealt to you.
• Retaliation deals 33% more damage. If retaliation is removed, deal X damage (300 radius)
• While under the effects of retaliation, you apply bleed on being hit. (3seconds, no ICD)
• While under the effects of retaliation, additionally reflect 10%of damage back to the attacker.
• Retalation deals x damage in a 300 radius for 1 second every time you are hit. (1second ICD)

If I had to pick something I would say the 4th or last would be best.

Applying bleed on hit would be great for condi guards.
Similarly turning retaliation into an AOE damage pulse could also be great.

Also the idea that retaliation damage could apply vulnerability could be quite fun to work with.
I love the idea of offense through defense.

I would like some serious consideration to be given to this trait as well. As a condition guardian, 11 times out of 10 I would take Amplified Wrath over this GM even if I’m not using torch or purging flames. There’s seriously no reason to take RR as it is now. It amounts to almost no damage increase, and offers nothing else to compensate.

I like the idea of this GM, it is very novel, and could provide another means of offence for condi guards and hybrid guards. I like the idea of turning retaliation into “oh ****! don’t freaking attack; that guard’s got retal on!”

Considering that this GM is competing with Amplified wrath for a GM trait, which is a pretty strong and offensive condi GM trait, I think a great option would be to make this GM something that is both defensive and offensive.

What if RR did this:

Retaliation now scales with condition damage. Apply weakness (2s, 10s icd per foe) to foes affected by retaliation that you apply.

*note: slightly lower base retal damage than normal, but high scaling such that a full condi build would be dishing out 350-400 retal ticks

This may be op, but something like this would make RR a worthy GM trait, and a great contender for AW. This trait would also be a decent option for power and hybrid guardians who could use this GM trait for its defensive nature as well. It might even encourage players to use the master trait Retribution to get the most out of retaliation as a boon.

If we really need to add something, why not grant Light Aura on crit (dealt or received). Extends retaliation uptime, provides some vuln, and can encourage certain styles of play. Imo, Perfect Inscriptions shouldn’t be granting Light Aura. With a change to PI, RR would have a good niche covered.

Or, perhaps a stacking precision buff when hit. This could make for some interesting pairings with Rabid, Apoth, or Settlers (or similar) armors.

Ghotistyx.6942:

If we really need to add something, why not grant Light Aura on crit (dealt or received). Extends retaliation uptime, provides some vuln, and can encourage certain styles of play. Imo, Perfect Inscriptions shouldn’t be granting Light Aura. With a change to PI, RR would have a good niche covered.

Or, perhaps a stacking precision buff when hit. This could make for some interesting pairings with Rabid, Apoth, or Settlers (or similar) armors.

I like this & I’ve never really liked light aura’s on signets as I feel it has little sync to the gameplay of signet active effects:

• Bane Signet – Knockdown your foe (3 sec). So when’s your foe going to hit you for any benefit from Light Aura (3 sec).
• Signet of Wrath – Immobilise your foe (3 sec). Typically when using a immobilise would your foes be attacking you.
• Signet of Mercy – Revive a nearby ally. Again how much benefit does light aura provide to reviving an ally.
• Signet of Judgement – Stun break & grant retaliation to nearby allies & weakness to foes. Your already get retaliation so how much does vulnerability help when you would be stun breaking.
• Signet of Courage – Fully heal nearby allies. I ask again how much benefit would light aura provide when healing allies.
• Signet of Resolve – Heal yourself. here you might get some punishing your foe for attacking & setting them up for greater damage but typically a foe should be trying to interrupt your heal & if this is the chase what’s the benefit for light aura.

. Thinking about it, my redesign is basically light aura but with a pulsing damage field. I still feel if were adding retaliation to condition gameplay the player needs another option other then “On Hit” to apply retal damage to foes.

If we take light auras from Perfect Inscriptions add them to Radiant Retaliation & include an option to apply retaliation damage directly I think we’ll have a grandmaster that still keeps the theme & favour of the current but makes it viable. Amplified Wrath provides a defensive condition damaging grandmaster so why not turn RR into the offensive condition grandmaster.

Radiant Retaliation
Grants a light aura on utility skill activation. While effected by light aura pulse retaliation damage to foes around you. Retaliation scales from condition damage instead of power.

To side track abit to Signets

I feel Signet of Mercy has lost alot of it’s benefit with the introduction of Signet of Courage. What I would like is for the revive ally function to be incorporated into Signet of Courage full heal, then change signet of mercy.

Signet of Mercy – Active effect Version 1
Grants regeneration & resistance to nearby allies.
Resistance 3 sec
Regeneration 3 sec (For each ally effected increase duration by 1 sec)
Number of Targets: 5
Radius: 180

This provides some much needed active condition protection for signet builds, or;

Signet of Mercy – Active effect Version 2
Grants aegis & resistance to nearby allies.
Aegis 4 sec
Regeneration 3 sec (For each ally effected increase duration by 1 sec)
Number of Targets: 5
Radius: 180

Further improving Aegis focused builds. Now looking at Perfect Inscriptions how about:

Perfect Inscriptions
Sears a lesser symbol of swiftness at your location on signet activation. Signets recharge faster & have improved passive effects.
Damage (3x): 1287 (Dmg = 0.195 * Power)
Swiftness (4 sec) 33% Movement Speed
Number of Targets: 3
Symbol Duration: 2 sec
Symbol Radius: 120

Which could be a great option for providing increased mobility for guardians helping make signets viable.

the problem with singets is the same with traps and SW. We are depending on our utilites for sustain and condi cleanse in most game modes.

I think the perfect inscription idea os really cool but it would still rquire me to slot a signet. Going for Pure of voice and retreat would be a better choice.

ofc i love the radiance line for condi guard. the problem is if you want a focused dps build the GM options are all forcing you into one or another way.

I love the idea with retal aplying bleed. But then what. I have to decide between that and THE go to burn GM trait.

Perfect inscriptions needs to give a powerful but simmple effect like this:
- using a signet grants swiftness on you and allies.
- using a signet cleanses a condition on you and allies.
- using a signet recharges F2 (60 sec CD) > we have recharge traits for F1 and F3

It would create snergy with wrath of justice which would actually get some takers and make the radiance line in total a good choice for a dps guardian and the DH.

they could add a passiv here for 25% movement speed IF you have a passiv signet slotted. i would hate it on my burn guard but I could live with it.

I am not for passivs at all but guard really needs the speed one. There is no reason anymore to deny us a movement trait.

Asmodal.6489:

the problem with singets is the same with traps and SW. We are depending on our utilites for sustain and condi cleanse in most game modes.

I think the perfect inscription idea os really cool but it would still rquire me to slot a signet. Going for Pure of voice and retreat would be a better choice.

I would be interested to test. The advantage I see are:

• You now have multiply sources to apply swiftness which is less susceptible to boon stripping.
• Improved damage with extra symbols sync great with Zeal
• Improved sustain through kiting & symbol sync with Honor

Conditions are still a weakness which I believe should stay. Requiring you to select certain weapons & traits to help cover but I believe increase mobility will also help with this.

Asmodal.6489:

I love the idea with retal aplying bleed. But then what. I have to decide between that and THE go to burn GM trait.

The way I see Radiance grandmasters should be;

• Amplified Wrath - Defensive favour condition damaging build.
• Radiant Retaliation - Offensive favour condition damaging build
• *Perfect Inscription – * Signet enhancement non condition GM option.

I love the idea with retal aplying bleed. But then what. I have to decide between that and THE go to burn GM trait.

Asmodal.6489:

Perfect inscriptions needs to give a powerful but simmple effect like this:
- using a signet grants swiftness on you and allies.
- using a signet cleanses a condition on you and allies.
- using a signet recharges F2 (60 sec CD) > we have recharge traits for F1 and F3

It would create snergy with wrath of justice which would actually get some takers and make the radiance line in total a good choice for a dps guardian and the DH.

they could add a passiv here for 25% movement speed IF you have a passiv signet slotted. i would hate it on my burn guard but I could live with it.

I am not for passivs at all but guard really needs the speed one. There is no reason anymore to deny us a movement trait.

The more I think about it the more I think swiftness & guardian signet build could be a great match. I really like my lesser symbol of swiftness idea as it also changes gameplay with the addition of these extra symbols but any type of swiftness would be great.

Condition are a large weakness of signet build if we were looking at add further condition defence into signets, I would look at a more selfish defence having it only effect you leaving the group condition defence to Shouts. I also like the idea of Radiance using resistance more then cleanses but again believe increased mobility could reduce the overall condition weakness slightly but still keep it as a major weakness of signet builds that you actively need to build for.

Point 3 is a dream trait of mine for both F2 & F3 (Sorry F3’s Courageous Return is one of the worse trait & methods to achieve this). If a F2 trait was added I feel you wouldn’t need the condition cleanse as this plus Absolute Resolution would most likely cover most of your condition needs. The only problem I have is you now have both the F1 & the F2 recharge traits within Radiance heading toward this becoming a required spec line.

Lastly I believe a 25% passive movement speed is not needed at all. Yes if you feel it’s needed it can lock you into Runes of Speed or Traveller but I would prefer they further expand these rune options then add it either to a trait or skill for guardians which could have greater effects or change up your gameplay..

Frankly I’d change perfect inscriptions to the following

Perfect Inscriptions: Reduces signet cool downs, gain protection (4 seconds) & either remove a condition or gain resistance (4 seconds) when activating a signet.

As for signet of mercy & signet of courage.

I’d change them to the following

Signet of Mercy Passive: Increase boon duration by 25%.

Signet of Mercy Active: Grant Regeneration (8 seconds) & resistance _(5 seconds) to nearby allies. Cast time 3/4 second, CD 50 seconds.

Signet of Courage Passive: Radiate healing to nearby allies every second (about 15% of what it does now every 10 seconds) , (360 radius)

Signet of Courage Active: Grant protection (6 seconds) to nearby allies and heal them (say around 3-4k with moderate-high healing power) . Radius 360, cast time 3/4 second, CD 60 seconds.

To get this out of the way:

• Amplified Wrath might be a condition focussed trait at first glance but works perfectly fine in power builds. People didn’t argue about that back when it was in Zeal. Burning is strong regardless and it ensures that you can keep up the additional crit chance through the Minor. Which favours power builds more than condition builds on Guardians.
• Perfect Inscriptions works perfectly fine with both types of builds.
• I therefore don’t see a need for a new power trait instead of Radiant Retaliation.

Regarding Radiant Retaliation – great idea but bad execution – ANet made two major mistakes when reworking the traits. First, they placed it in direct competition with Amplified Wrath which will most of the time be stronger for condition builds especially when combined with Supreme Justice and Permeating Wrath. Second, they attached additional sources of Retaliation to Perfect Inscriptions, leaving Radiant Retaliation with too ineffective ways to actually gain Retaliation. A third smaller mistake were Healers Retribution (way too low uptime) and Retribution (why the lack of condition damage bonus?). If you want to make Radiant Retribution work, you basically have to rework the other Retaliation traits as well.

I really liked the idea of area damage through Retaliation. A simple rework could look like this:

Adept

• Inner Fire – As is.
• Right-Hand Strength – As is.
• Healers Retribution – Gain Retaliation for 3s when gaining Regeneration. 10s ICD.

Master

• Wrath of Justice – As is.
• Inner Fire – As is.
• Retribution – Deal 10% additional power and condition damage while affected by Retaliation.

Grandmaster

• Amplified Wrath – As is.
• Perfect Inscriptions – As is.
• Radiant Retaliation – Retaliation damages nearby enemies each second it is active (r = 180-240, target limit = 5). The damage scales with your condition damage.

Radiant Retaliation would provide a condition damage option which works without heavy investment in Virtues. I’d enjoy it.

I like the overall look at Radiance Xaylin & agree the traits you would pair up with RR aren’t really actively help the plays style you would be looking for.

• Healers Retribution – Gain Retaliation for 3s when gaining Regeneration. 10s ICD. Really like this idea as it provides enough retaliation up time for this play style syncing with many options throughout the whole guardian to provide this allowing for a few variant builds.
• Retribution – Deal 10% additional power and condition damage while affected by Retaliation. Not bad but first I would look at Retaliations play style requirement of getting hit. So I would look at least the inclusion of -10% incoming damage into the trait even at the cost of increased direct damage. If this is overall to strong with Signet of Judgement & the Protection Boon I would look at -10% incoming damage while not effected by protection.
• Radiant Retaliation – Retaliation damages nearby enemies each second it is active. Again how I would like this trait to work allowing players to apply the retal dmg directly, then requiring your foe to hit you for it to be applied. If the combination of this pulsing field & dmg on hit is to strong I would still prefer to keep the damaging field & lose the dmg on hit.

Regarding Perfect Inscriptions I really just feel light aura on activation just doesn’t sync with signet game play. Adding a lesser symbol of swiftness feels likes its opening up a whole new gameplay option for guardians which could make a viable signet symbol builds (Zeal, Radiance, Honor – either offensive or support variants).

Work on these traits & I believe Radiance would be in a place were every trait is a option & a viable choice for differing builds.