Guild Wars 2

I was just wondering how good/bad Guardians are when it comes to ranged attacks.

You’re gonna hear a lot of mixed answers.

I find Guardian’s ranged attacks to be mediocre. It’s not the best and not the worst.

I would however, like it if Anet increased scepter orb speed by just a tiny bit.

well I guess where I am most concerned about it would be for if I decide to do WvWvW.

I am going to guess that for PvE it’s probably ok since Ranged bosses don’t really move around a lot from what I understand.

The scepter is very good.

We’re no Grenadiers or Long-bow Rangers, but we make due when we need to keep our distance.

My 2cp: For WvW, I would not try to make a scepter build. However, I also wouldn’t travel without one.

No, the damage isn’t great, but it is our long-range option. It is not a great option when measured against other classes, but it is the only one we have. While I certainly wouldn’t mind seeing some more buffs to it, I’m a staunch supporter of working with what you have while asking for better.

The rate of fire is decent—fast enough that you can put pressure on your target by forcing them to move or take the hits. It won’t win you a 1v1 against a ranger, but zerg vs. zerg most of your shots will probably connect with somebody. Any attention devoted to avoiding your scepter attacks is attention not spent elsewhere. Skill #2 can tag groups of people nicely, and skill #3 is a ranged immobilize—whats not to like there.

I keep one around, either on swap or in my bag, because there are times when scepter is the best weapon I can produce for a fight. Similarly, I am never without a staff—we missed a mesmer when clearing a fort and he managed to portal in a decent zerg to our inner gate. Staffing through the gate put enough pressure on them to slow the attack long enough for reinforcements to arrive and clear them out. I wouldn’t advocate a staff-centric build for general use, but it does what it does well.

DreamOfACure is right that a scepter is very good, but it is only very good at doing what it does, not necessarily what people want it to do. You probably won’t have the ranged damage that a ranger puts out, no matter how you spec or what buffs are made.

Kasei is correct that, in the grand scheme of ranged combat in WvW, it is not very good; it is on the low end of the spectrum. However, it does have its uses—and this is where it is “very good.” Not “great” but “very good.”

Well I don’t plan really on standing back and using just that since a Guardian is meant to get in there and mix it up but what I wanted to know I guess is that if needed that it would be useful. I will probably pve the most but I want to do some wvwvw as well.

Heck to be honest I don’t even know how good Guardians are for wvwvw to be honest. Been leveling a warrior so far because I was afraid a Guardian wouldn’t cut it.

Limited, at best. Most of our ranged options exist to facilitate closing distance. Even if you build for range, the best you’ll get is midrange (400-900) with a Staff, Scepter, Consecrations and Virtues build. And even then, you’ll need to be pretty mobile.

They are as effective as peeing in the wind.

Peeing into a strong headwind, more like.

Both ranged weapons of the Guardian are situational but are strong if used in the right situation.
The staff provides a little group-wide healing, group-wide Might, group-wide Swiftness and an AoE attack on its auto attacking, making this weapon very good for DE because you can support other players and easily tag a lot of foes for XP and loot and for running from A to B. With [Altruistic Healing] skill #3 and #4 also turn into great self-heals.
The Scepter is one of the highest DPS weapons of the Guardian however due to the slow projectile speed of its auto attack and the nature of its skill #2 it’s only strong against fairly immobile foes.

However it’s not feasible to use one of the ranged weapons as your standard weapon set, they are weapons to switch to if the situation calls for it.

DesertRose.2031:

Both ranged weapons of the Guardian are situational but are strong if used in the right situation.

A ranged weapon that is only effective in near mele range and near useless at range.

Maybe I’m the only one who thinks range weapons should actually be effective at range. Crazy eh?

depends how you play…i’d say its OK if you are forced to kite a mob (pve-wise). I use scepter with torch which is a vry good combo especially if u have nice prec.

I use #3 for immobilizing, next #2, then throw torch with #4 and use #5 while moving so I don’t care a lot about auto-attack dmg. When i complete this circle I switch to GS etc. For WvsW this combo delivers some nice dps but its not gonna one-shot anyone. More likely you will kill someone escaping at low life

scepter have only 2nd and 3rd skill good but auto attack is bad often misses target in movement. if you give speed on yourself you can dodge every attack because of bubble slowness.

Scepter is effective in sPvP and tPvP up to around 300range, very bad in WvW and good in PvE(Dungeons).

With all the riduculous amount of enemies(actually stupid amounts) placed in some areas, I use ranged to draw them to me one or two at a time and switch to my main to finish them off. I do this until their numbers are reduced to a resonable amount to handle with my main. So I use them situationally, got to be quick though because the quick respawn rates in some areas(another bad development choice) kick in.

Guardian range attacks range from poor to mediocre. Staff skill # 2 is a decent skill since it has been buffed, but the staff has never been considered a ranged alternative for guardians anyway.

The scepter is our only “real” range weapon. But it has a lot of issues. Skill 1 is entirely too slow to be effective at range. And skill # 2 divides its damage based upon the amount of targets in the area. So its not a true aoe and worse of all its not a symbol, even though it looks like one.

If they buffed the speed of scepter skill 1 like they did the staff version and changed skill # 2 into a symbol, limit the amount of targets it can hit to 5 and allow full damage on all of them. Then I’d say scepter would be a good ranged weapon imo.

I got just opposite feeling. Specter is much way better in wvw than spvp/tpvp.
All you need is the specter 2 once u see any enemy down among the zerg of enemy, he will die soon and also hurt anyone else who want to rez him. I got tons of kills by just spamming the specter 2 alone. Never mention how useful it is when u atking target on walls.

OneManArmy.5617:

Scepter is effective in sPvP and tPvP up to around 300range, very bad in WvW and good in PvE(Dungeons).

It’s pretty meh but it’s the only real ranged weapon we have.

I did some WvW though and I found it pretty effective to deal ensured damages. But yeah, other than a 20sec recharge immobilization it’s not very sexy.

The damage from scepter isn’t bad. The problem is, as others have already mentioned, the projectile speed of the autoattack. I basically use scepter in WvW mostly for skill #3 and to hit people that are too far out of range for my GS to hit. Scepter is basically a medium-range single-target weapon which opens up more defensive off-hand options and staff is a medium range AoE weapon with some support abilities (at least I think that’s how to best view them).

Attack #1 on the scepter definitely needs to be sped up.

We have the worst ranged options in the game of any profession.

Staff is amazing in WvW, if you take advantage of it(takes practice) and trait for it.

Scepter is just something I am forced to use in some situations with no other option.

Guardian is a very very poor choice of ranged profession. Thief might be worse though.

I only use scepter for two reasons.
1. Kiting Lupicus in Arah Exp
2. Taking down Oil in Wvw

Other than that, it is useless. Staff is not a ranged weapon.

it is completely terrible, we’re forced to use scepter because it’s the only ranged weapon we have and sadly we got only auto attack which does “all time damage” Skill number 2 works on range too but in pve bosses tend to move a lot so it’s useless most of the time, some bosses can’t be rooted so it’s a pain. Guardians are forced to go on meele most of the time due to ranged limitations

Staff isn’t good for its range, but it has the widest arc of any weapon in game. It’s great for running into the masses in WvW and hitting 5 people at once. For PvE the staffs much better with the improved to the Orb’s speed and it meshes very well when you trait it.

Our only “real” ranged weapon really is Reflective Ward. Get the trait that allows you to range cast consecrations and you can strategically place it in front of a group of 10 ranged and watch them murder themselves.

IV Endu.8920:

I find Guardian’s ranged attacks to be mediocre. It’s not the best and not the worst.

I wonder which class has worse ranged abilities in your opinion?

Speaking of the staff the first attack while being a ranged aoe it only has 600 range and it cant hit anything above you and I find that to be annoying because in some dungeons and especially in WVW I can hit the enemies above me so I get blasted constantly. This is the main reason the staff is weak. Not to mention it does mediocre damage.

the scepter is the only “true” ranged option we get as Guardians – though most won’t really count it as ranged. can it be effective? sure. does it get certain objectives done? sure. so we’re not completely useless. it’s not bad while defending/attacking walls. #2 can do pretty decent dmg. #3 good for chasing / stopping enemies.

staff i wouldn’t say is ranged at all. barely if anything. but serves as a good buff for your team before fights if need / as well as a good heal for yourself is traited. boring, but works wonders while behind a gate door and holding off enemy attacks. once got 7 – 8 kills and few bags of loot just by spamming #1 from inside the gate. not sure why people don’t move though.

to add: should probs run with renewed focus but i usually elite Tome of Wrath. short quickness buff as well as scaring enemies off when they see blue flames lighting up around them. not as effective on top of walls as i’d like it to be though. and of course, at the disadvantage of having all your other skills / utilities stripped for the duration.

It can be decent if traited but it’s not worth traiting. I keep scepter/shield/focus in the bag and swap based on situation. I run a 58% crit build and crits definitely boost #1 and #2. My biggest complaint is the aesthetic/animations. I’d be happier with a bow even if basic functions remained the same.

That said, typical WvW fights have evolved and charging in with melee is much more common and effective. The same thing happened in DAoC. Guardian is an effective front line fighter and line breaker.

There is no line. Everyone can just roll past a giant nord for all they cared.
The issue with the World v World is just a straight zerg-up with the right boon and support spam is near unstoppable due to how the hit-capped aoe works.

This is why slapping a Wall of Reflection is a huge factor in ranged engagements because the amount reflected is never capped, and that’s why a.net doesn’t want guardian to have superb ranged options. You just can’t give Guardians both survivability and high ranged damage option with the accompanying virtue – consecration and shout mechanics.

Still don’t get it?
Try imagining a guardian with a Warrior’s Rifle / Longbow skill set with staff as 2nd weapon setup.
Utilities > Wall of Reflection / Save Yourselves / Stand Your Ground.
Have them form a party of 5 vs other 5 and engage in ranged combat exchange.
Not many party can beat that at range.

redknight.8036:

There is no line. Everyone can just roll past a giant nord for all they cared.
The issue with the World v World is just a straight zerg-up with the right boon and support spam is near unstoppable due to how the hit-capped aoe works.

This is why slapping a Wall of Reflection is a huge factor in ranged engagements because the amount reflected is never capped, and that’s why a.net doesn’t want guardian to have superb ranged options. You just can’t give Guardians both survivability and high ranged damage option with the accompanying virtue – consecration and shout mechanics.

Still don’t get it?
Try imagining a guardian with a Warrior’s Rifle / Longbow skill set with staff as 2nd weapon setup.
Utilities > Wall of Reflection / Save Yourselves / Stand Your Ground.
Have them form a party of 5 vs other 5 and engage in ranged combat exchange.
Not many party can beat that at range.

The only good thing guardians have in WvW is the Wall of Reflection and using Staff to hit multiple targets zerging on a gate.
I would trade that for better ranged weaponry.
It doesn’t have to be anything amazing,a simple 33-50% increase to the scepter’s orb of wrath projectile would be just fine.

Guardian Scepter DPS is better than Ranger Bow DPS. OTH, the orbs move so slowly that they’re really only good for hitting stationary or melee-distance targets (afk’ers, gates, etc). And, a lot of the DPS comes from scepter/2, which is also stationary-only for targets.

redknight.8036:

There is no line. Everyone can just roll past a giant nord for all they cared.
The issue with the World v World is just a straight zerg-up with the right boon and support spam is near unstoppable due to how the hit-capped aoe works.

This is why slapping a Wall of Reflection is a huge factor in ranged engagements because the amount reflected is never capped, and that’s why a.net doesn’t want guardian to have superb ranged options. You just can’t give Guardians both survivability and high ranged damage option with the accompanying virtue – consecration and shout mechanics.

Still don’t get it?
Try imagining a guardian with a Warrior’s Rifle / Longbow skill set with staff as 2nd weapon setup.
Utilities > Wall of Reflection / Save Yourselves / Stand Your Ground.
Have them form a party of 5 vs other 5 and engage in ranged combat exchange.
Not many party can beat that at range.

Assuming the longbow attacks would be projectiles, a group of elementalists or mesmers with focuses would destroy that group. Guardians aren’t the only ones who can block or reflect projectiles, but we rely on it since it’s our best option for range combat right now.

The main issue I see with giving the guardian a projectile weapon is that we’d have unlimited ally condition removal with our combo light fields. The only way to prevent this is to give the guardian non-projectile attacks (Orb of Wrath). However, that prevents them from being reflected or blocked by projectile barriers.

So the goal here is to give the guardian a long range weapon that doesn’t have unlimited projectile skills, and that isn’t overpowered when use with our barriers.

My suggestion before was to simply make our barriers interact with our ranged weapons. So many creative mechanics can be made with that idea.

• A light/flame arrow (non-projectile) that does decent damage against a target, but when it passes through a light combo field (any guardian barrier, and symbol), it stops and heals/buffs allies instead. Short cooldown.
• A projectile arrow attack that does medium damage to a target, but when it passes through a light combo field it applies 4 seconds of burning to the target. It could be used to remove one condition from an ally, and to damage a target. However, it can also be reflected since it is a projectile. Long cooldown.

Not everything has to be so straight forward, be creative.

The ranged attacks of the scepter are very strong yet unreliable. It’s as simple as that. You’ll probably see the orbs go wide right or left when your opponent starts to move and it’ll be considered, “out of range.” So all in all, making the orbs faster would make sense.

Guardian does ranged for one reason only: to proc might on crit and weapon swap to staff might stacks to help everyone else range for higher damage. Don’t bother doing range solo, as even tome of wrath is only useful for the 1-2 spells of quickness it can do.

Guardian has worst range options in game hands down. Scepter has its known problems, and Staff is support, its barely a range option.

Scepter has the highest damage per-hit for its #1. However, it doesn’t have a secondary effect like other professions have.(inflicting weakness on hit as an example)

I agree that the Guardian’s ranged attack(s) are pretty bab. But I don’t really care that much, because we have lots of utility skills that let us a) mitigate (and even reflect) ranged attacks against us and our teammates and b) close distance to our enemies.
The damage on the scepter is mediocre at best (not the “raw” damage but the lack of any condition/effect), the projectile of the auto-attack is to slow. #2 attack isn’t too bad if the enemy is rooted, but the damage still is sub par and there seem to be some bugs where it doesn’t hit reliably. #3 is a root, always nice to have, but no real ranged attack (has some minor synergy with #2, but is far more useful if you switch to melee).
I basically only use scepter to attack oil and cannons in WvW.
Staff has been mentioned a couple of times in this thread – it has a ranged attack, but I wouldn’t consider it a ranged weapon. The support skills are quite nice in WvW, #1 can be quite useful to find/annoy stealthed thiefs or do some cone-AoE damage in zerg fights. #5 is a lot of fun if the enemies are trying to storm a breached wall/door.
So… if you find yourself in a ranged fight, my suggestion would be to either mitigate the damage for you and your teammates or use your skills to get your team into melee range. Fighting is a waste of skill slots imho.
(however I would really like to see how you guys would skill/trait for a ranged Guardian. Could at least surprise the enemy)

Scepter > Staff anyday.

Soften them up with a Scepter, kite for a bit and jump right in with a Greatsword.

Works all the time, on groups as well as solos (just don’t try and solo a Champ!)

Well, I wouldn’t suggest relying on ranged-attacks with a Guardian — like said, they’re not that great — but at least we have some options available.

Personally, I prefer Staff due to playing WvW often (love the skills), and it’s not so bad w/ the increased projectile-speed (long-range), but I still mainly use that just to supplement the AoE damage.

Just to correct a few claims here:
- Projectile finishers are not the same thing as projectiles. Many projectiles aren’t combo finishers (like engineer’s Poison Dart Volley) but are still reflected, while some projectile finishers can’t be reflected (or at least one: mesmer’s Mirror Blade). But if something flies to its destination (like a bullet or arrow) it generally can be reflected.
- Wall of Reflection is not a good reason for not giving guardians useful ranged options, since other professions can reflect or block projectiles too and they can also take advantage of Wall of Reflection just as much as a guardian (or even more, because they can also have a better ranged weapon).
- Wall of Reflection doesn’t have the impact some people say it does. If you use it in wvw in a zerg battle, most allies will usually ignore it like they do in dungeons or the “safe” area provided by the wall will get bombarded by AoEs (most AoEs aren’t projectiles and aren’t affected by the wall). With enemy arrow carts it becomes useless. In 1v1 (similar in small battles) the bad guy (enemy) tends to just swap to a melee weapon, plus it’s not 10 seconds of guaranteed projectile reflection with people seemingly randomly running around even if they still use a ranged weapon.

The Scepter isn’t useless by any means, but it certainly is the worst 1200 range weapon.

Both our range options are pretty bad, with the Scepter being slightly more useful as a ranged weapon than the Staff.

redknight.8036:

This is why slapping a Wall of Reflection is a huge factor in ranged engagements because the amount reflected is never capped, and that’s why a.net doesn’t want guardian to have superb ranged options. You just can’t give Guardians both survivability and high ranged damage option with the accompanying virtue – consecration and shout mechanics.

I’ve seen this argument in the past, and it’s easy to circumvent: make sure any new ranged weapons are not damage powerhouses. Give the first attack decent damage, and just make the rest more focused on utility than damage.
Basically, it’s no excuse.

Compared to other classes ranged options, yes Guardians are lacking, but Scepter and Staff should not be underestimated in WvW so long as you are offensively (Not Glass Cannon) built.

Scepter’s #2 hits like a truck, so long as the opponent stands in there long enough which is where #3 comes in. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve popped #2 on the edge of a wall during siege and watching invader’s health drops, sometimes down if they don’t move out of the way. Scepter #3 also works well to stop fleeing foes and synergies well with any other weapon. The auto attack is pretty meh, but if you are switching to Scepter to use the #1 skill you are doing it wrong anyway.

Staff also hits pretty hard, it’s #1 skill can do a lot of AoE damage in a zerg, and the #2 skill hits very hard for being a 3 second skill, and also damages everyone in a zerg that it passes through.

Scepter is in no way good. If we were to compare with the other classes, we are the ONLY class to have the WEAKEST form of Range attacks.

So yes, this needs to be hopefully looked into further. My thoughts, Faster Orb speed is a must. Anything else would be a welcomed change.

It depends on what one understands under ‘range’. Guardian will be very weak if you really want to stay at the long range and snipe moving targets. But its also not Guardian’s purpose.

The Scepter is high DPS at short/mid range and excels at taking out stationary targets like wall defences. The Staff is amazing in group settings, capable of some serious support AOE damage when built properly – just don’t try to fight 1v1 with it.

That said, I’d also like to see some speed increase on the Scepter #1, but that’s more a quality of life question. People just have to understand that Guardian has its limits – just as any other class out there.

Having played a ranger since game release, Guardian range attack is utter rubbish. I don’t see any situation where you would want to use ranged attack when melee works so well.

Staff is probably a decent group support tool, I just haven’t had the occasion to use it as such. Would never consider it as an offensive weapon .Not sure what scepter is supposed to do. I suspect it is meant for single-target control with some damge but it seems to be not very good at either. The #1 auto-attack blobs are a joke. Of all the guardian’s weapons, this one needs some serious attention.

I have been playing the guardian for only a week (lvl 57), so still lots to learn about the class, however, I do know ranged attack is far from the guardian’s best option …

EDIT: Just to add, this has all been in PvE and one dungeon (AC)

The only time I whip out a ranged weapon is when I’m being kited which really only happens to me in spvp and in all honestly I think poping retaliation and just letting them shot themselves to death is a better option.