Guild Wars 2

Hi Arenanet

Remember Guardians? They were one of the classes you made when you created Guild Wars 2. Surprisingly, considering the promising start, they have become the red-headed stepchild class that you left behind way back when. They need to be buffed because ever since release you’ve done nothing but buff all the other classes and, on average, Guardians can’t cope anymore.

This may seem melodramatic, but seriously, just because Josh Groucheroo constantly says, “…and guardians are fine”, it doesn’t make it so.

The guardian profession is fine. Learn the mechanics and how to deal with situations

These kinds of statements fall on deaf ears, quite simply because there’s no one here to hear them.

The devs don’t have the time nor the patience to watch profession subforums ( unless it’s on the internal beta platform ), even support doesn’t do it – so you’d be better off mailing them directly with your concerns

What? Guardian is one of the most played classes in this game and certainly among the most balanced ones.

green plum.7514:

What? Guardian WAS one of the most played classes in this game and WAS certainly among the most balanced ones.

Corrected for accuracy.

Note: WAS as in used to be in the past. Meta is much different now.

As others have said, the Guardian class is fine. You really do have to learn the mechanics of this class if you are going to be successful with it.

I roam/havoc through wvw most of the time. I often 1 v 3 & 4 with this class. In a lot of ways this class is truly OP. But yes. Learn the mechanics. Do well. Cry no moar.

Guardians are fine.

Every class sub-forum has threads that are basically the same blithering complaints, we are under-powered and we are ignored. Call the wambulance…

One word:
Conditions.

That is all.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

One word:
Conditions.

That is all.

Indeed.

They added another condition while leaving condition removal the same for guardians. Not even a sniff of additional aid for the class.

“… and guardians are fine”. LOL!

Guardians are fine for the most part. Sure they need some tweaking just like every other class, but all these QQ threads are starting to get old.

Either:

A) Learn the mechanics and how to deal with situations like mrauls said.
B) Reroll
C) Wait until the 15th

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

One word:
Conditions.

That is all.

This, i run PoV on an all shout build, purity, and Absolute Resolution, still it’s like trying to plug a dam break with my fingers. Our low HP pool really hurts as toughness and armour do nothing against the wave of conditions you are getting hit with.

My lowest timer is 24seconds on syg(2 condis cured for everyone in group). My virtue of resolve is 1minute(cures 3 condis off everyone in the group and heals).

This is why you see groups stacking multiple Guardians, not only for the uptime on prot/stab/regen but the fact that 2 Guardians can keep a group relatively condition free. 1 however cannot due to the long timers on removal, a regen for 2.5k(sy’s) over 10 seconds is virtually useless when ur getting hit for 2k on skill use.

As a good example id like to add an edit my perplexity mesmer’s torment over 12 seconds does 5281dmg with no corruption stacks, so 10k+ if ur moving and can be reapplied every 12 seconds. This is just the torment, not taking into account confusion, or any other condis. And with just exotics.

Svarty.8019:

Hi Arenanet

Remember Guardians? They were one of the classes you made when you created Guild Wars 2. Surprisingly, considering the promising start, they have become the red-headed stepchild class that you left behind way back when. They need to be buffed because ever since release you’ve done nothing but buff all the other classes and, on average, Guardians can’t cope anymore.

This may seem melodramatic, but seriously, just because Josh Groucheroo constantly says, “…and guardians are fine”, it doesn’t make it so.

Svarty… What are you talking about? Guardians are one of the most sought after classes in dungeons, right up there with warrior. And same goes for PvP. And when I say PvP I am talking about WvW can’t speak too much for Spvp cause I don’t really play it. Are we even playing the same game?

i was messing in WvW yesterday after having not “PvP”-ed for a while. and conditiosn realyl are all over the place. within seconds of engagement, i’d have a bar full of condis. and the reapplication is too easy for condi builds it seems. i’m just wondering are there any classes/builds out there that can readily or even easily counter / deal with focus fire condi bombs?

i guess my view point is, sure, maybe the Guardian doesn’t fit as well in the meta now. but i don’t think it’s the class at fault necessarily. if anything, only relative to the meta. i’ve said this before.. i’d rather the meta change and tone conditions down a bit, than change the Guardian to match the meta.. i donno how these thigns are supposed to work, but that’s how i feel for what it’s worth.

i love the class, the mechanics and i ams till polishing my skills. i still have a ton of fun with the class as well. i don’t think we’re in THAT bad of a place. that being said, i will continually welcome positive changes and improvements to the class and the game obviously.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

One word:
Conditions.

That is all.

Yep the condition meta definitely is bad. Not just for Guardians but for anyone not running a condition build.

Throw in perplexity runes and pvp can be a total crapfest.

If you aint got a ranged condi weapon and high base vitality you’re gonna have a bad time.

so how do guardians deal with condi spamfest these days?

Wukunlin.8461:

so how do guardians deal with condi spamfest these days?

We strike like a bee and sting like a tiger

We are not extremely terrible for PvP or WvWvW as you make it sound, our main problem right now seems to be that in PvE there is nothing we can do that someone can’t do bether and for PvP / WvWvW it feels like we are locked to shout build or called a scrub that needs to L2P. Also we have one specc that is kinda silly and performe godly in WvWvW so not terrible, only locked. Side note, oure damage seem to be kinda lack luster in my opinion but that might due to the fact that most people take my attacks in the face and laugh. THen again most of the time they give up after 5 min and run away.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

One word:
Conditions.

That is all.

The problem with this thread is the same problem many of the posts suffer from. You have three types of content.

1. Is PvE
2. Is PvP
3. Is WvW, which is PvE with incidental PvP thrown in.

Guardians are fine as far as I know in PvE. The problem comes in with PvP,

so how do guardians deal with condi spamfest these days?

You get a warrior =P.

What the Guardian lacks the most is the playstyle not the DPS or Healing.

The best example would be Sword/Shield. God knows how much of a passive this set has. The more you land your Auto atk the best you are doing your job. This promotes nothing but boring playstyle.

Zealot’s Defense and Shield of Judgment really need some serious revamp and makes it more of an active skills. But what we got? In Pvp we bunk and anything else is a joke.

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

One word:
Conditions.

That is all.

The problem with this thread is the same problem many of the posts suffer from. You have three types of content.

1. Is PvE
2. Is PvP
3. Is WvW, which is PvE with incidental PvP thrown in.

Guardians are fine as far as I know in PvE. The problem comes in with PvP,

so how do guardians deal with condi spamfest these days?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_BZszcYu6Q

You get a warrior =P.

On eload of BS followed by more of such.
Learn to play Guardian and even condi spamfests can be dealt with.

WvW is PvE = hilarious…….114K kills says otherwise……

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

One word:
Conditions.

That is all.

The problem with this thread is the same problem many of the posts suffer from. You have three types of content.

1. Is PvE
2. Is PvP
3. Is WvW, which is PvE with incidental PvP thrown in.

Guardians are fine as far as I know in PvE. The problem comes in with PvP,

so how do guardians deal with condi spamfest these days?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_BZszcYu6Q

You get a warrior =P.

On eload of BS followed by more of such.
Learn to play Guardian and even condi spamfests can be dealt with.

WvW is PvE = hilarious…….114K kills says otherwise……

akamon.2769:

i was messing in WvW yesterday after having not “PvP”-ed for a while. and conditiosn realyl are all over the place. within seconds of engagement, i’d have a bar full of condis. and the reapplication is too easy for condi builds it seems. i’m just wondering are there any classes/builds out there that can readily or even easily counter / deal with focus fire condi bombs?

Necromancer, the class that nobody plays.

for SPVP, you guys show your rank (low) when you talk about Guardians being bad, or needing buffs?

Every team in every tournament since this game has started contained a guardian.

Guardians are borderline OP, the only reason people don’t complain is because they don’t deal huge damage, that is it. Done.

I don’t main a guardian…but am not bad enough to say they need a buff.

Who needs a buff? How about the class that had a 0% showing during the last tournament…ele.

no eles were harmed in this tournament

Divinity.8041:

for SPVP, you guys show your rank (low) when you talk about Guardians being bad, or needing buffs?

Every team in every tournament since this game has started contained a guardian.

Guardians are borderline OP, the only reason people don’t complain is because they don’t deal huge damage, that is it. Done.

I don’t main a guardian…but am not bad enough to say they need a buff.

Who needs a buff? How about the class that had a 0% showing during the last tournament…ele.

no eles were harmed in this tournament

This guy right here, is a real PvP’er. Most people in this thread probably play WvW and call themselves PvP’ers.

uhhhhh

PVE Gaurd is one of the best prof’s you can take right along with war, mes, ele, ranger.

WvW Gaurd is amazing as it can fill several roles based on its load out. If the meta is conditions it only makes sense to create a build that is made to counter them… I have no problem with condi on my gaurd…… think this might be a L2P issue.

Sure the prof needs some tweaks. But its far from red headed stepchild category. That belongs to engi, or some other class that is truly not viable in many areas

Due to how dungeons are designed in PvE elementalist is currently the best class, don’t know if you have noticed but Fiery GS = kittenloads of damage. And PvE is designed that damage > everything else. Now they might need a buff for SPvP i won’t question that since i’ve never played one. But what i do know that a dedicated ele for buffing, buff bether than a dedicated Guard buff. And the ele got more buffs aswell, what they lack however is Stability.

1. Not everyone plays PvP.
2. “L2P” is not applicable when the mechanics are favored poorly towards Guardians. L2D (or Learn To Deal [with it]) is more applicable.
3. Although I personally think some things on the class need bufferage, that’s not what most people are asking for. The conditions meta is horrendous. Sure Guardians have lots of condi removal, but those go on cool down rather quickly. Since we don’t have access to conditions like the other classes, we have to resort to condi defense, and, well, it’s just not there. It’s only logical then that conditions need nerfing.
4. I think it’s safe to say most of us are talking about more than just single 1 vs X or small group skirmishes here (ie less than 5 in a group).
5. Zerg frontlining used to mean something for a Guardian. Condi-spam negates that. Now zerg frontlining is suicide.
6. More than one Guardian in a group is often frowned upon. One is needed, but that’s typical it. Got two Warriors coming in? Heck yes!
7. Other classes do it better. What specifically? Just name it. One exception: Aegis…. wow…. that’s real game changing there.

Remember we have the tied lowest health with thief and ele thanks to our regeneration and Aegis, Clearly aegis is alot stronger than you think not like aegis will block the first attack no mather what damage. Clearly it is designed to ignore low damage attacks.

Namu.5712:

Sure the prof needs some tweaks. But its far from red headed stepchild category. That belongs to engi, or some other class that is truly not viable in many areas

Engi?! Seriously, your post lost all credibility when you chose engi.

Svarty.8019:

Hi Arenanet

Remember Guardians? They were one of the classes you made when you created Guild Wars 2. Surprisingly, considering the promising start, they have become the red-headed stepchild class that you left behind way back when. They need to be buffed because ever since release you’ve done nothing but buff all the other classes and, on average, Guardians can’t cope anymore.

This may seem melodramatic, but seriously, just because Josh Groucheroo constantly says, “…and guardians are fine”, it doesn’t make it so.

Did someone not read the preview for the upcoming patch on the 15th? In case you didn’t, here’s what our dear friends at Anet said about us;

Guardian
We increased the power of many support skills which weren’t seeing much play. We reworked Purging Flames: it now removes three conditions from allies in an area effect around the guardian on cast while still burning enemies (enemies that enter or exit the flames are still burned). Once the skill has been cast, it then reduces condition duration for allies who remain in the consecration’s area. It’s hawt. Literally. All meditation utility skills are now instant, and Focused Mind now grants fury on meditation use.

Svarty.8019:

Engi?! Seriously, your post lost all credibility when you chose engi.

In his defense, you set the bar for credibility pretty low in the OP.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

7. Other classes do it better. What specifically? Just name it. One exception: Aegis…. wow…. that’s real game changing there.

Let me let you in on a little secret, you know that new dungeon path that just opened? You know when the last boss does his 5 time ground pound charged attacked at 30 stacks? THAT can be totally negated by Aegis. Yeap, that team wiping move, negated by well timed Aegises from two Guardians. Talk about a game changer.

Oh and guess how my team killed Sparki one time? Protection and Retaliation. It was funny.

Step 1: Make a Ranger.
Step 2: Equip longbow.
Step 3: Attack nearest enemy.
Step 4: Come back to forums.
Step 5: Apologize.

Or you could do this with an Elementalist. Just let an enemy attack you and you’ll see how good you have it with a Guardian. I’m lucky to not be insta-killed in a dungeon every two seconds when I’m on my Ele.

I don’t ever feel that guards are underpowered, I have played every class except for necro, and I keep getting drawn to play my guard again and again. The devs must be doing something right with them.

Dirame.8521:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

7. Other classes do it better. What specifically? Just name it. One exception: Aegis…. wow…. that’s real game changing there.

Let me let you in on a little secret, you know that new dungeon path that just opened? You know when the last boss does his 5 time ground pound charged attacked at 30 stacks? THAT can be totally negated by Aegis. Yeap, that team wiping move, negated by well timed Aegises from two Guardians. Talk about a game changer.

Oh and guess how my team killed Sparki one time? Protection and Retaliation. It was funny.

So you are comparing two boons we can apply in the most optimal situation it will ever come to, and as you said you need two guardian for the Aegis part. So Why don’t i see more Guardians with a shield?

In theory you can block over a million projectiles as long as they shoot them during a 4 second window. Or Warrior and guardian invur should be reduced to have maximum one second since you can ignore unlimited amount of damage, same with evade. Why don’t we limit dodge and evade to only one attack since you now evade or dodge unlimited amounts during those seconds it lasts. Well maybe cause that would be the dream scenario, sometimes average things or extremely situational things are precisely that, situational.

Perikittenor.1892:

Dirame.8521:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

7. Other classes do it better. What specifically? Just name it. One exception: Aegis…. wow…. that’s real game changing there.

Let me let you in on a little secret, you know that new dungeon path that just opened? You know when the last boss does his 5 time ground pound charged attacked at 30 stacks? THAT can be totally negated by Aegis. Yeap, that team wiping move, negated by well timed Aegises from two Guardians. Talk about a game changer.

Oh and guess how my team killed Sparki one time? Protection and Retaliation. It was funny.

So you are comparing two boons we can apply in the most optimal situation it will ever come to, and as you said you need two guardian for the Aegis part. So Why don’t i see more Guardians with a shield?

In theory you can block over a million projectiles as long as they shoot them during a 4 second window. Or Warrior and guardian invur should be reduced to have maximum one second since you can ignore unlimited amount of damage, same with evade. Why don’t we limit dodge and evade to only one attack since you now evade or dodge unlimited amounts during those seconds it lasts. Well maybe cause that would be the dream scenario, sometimes average things or extremely situational things are precisely that, situational.

Yea, it is situational. But the situations where you will use Aegis, are anything but rare. So many 1-shot skills from bosses can be blocked by Aegis and just popping and screaming “Aegis!” means that my team doesn’t break DPS because they know I’m going to block the damage for them.

Divinity.8041:

for SPVP, you guys show your rank (low) when you talk about Guardians being bad, or needing buffs?

Every team in every tournament since this game has started contained a guardian.

Guardians are borderline OP, the only reason people don’t complain is because they don’t deal huge damage, that is it. Done.

I don’t main a guardian…but am not bad enough to say they need a buff.

Who needs a buff? How about the class that had a 0% showing during the last tournament…ele.

no eles were harmed in this tournament

I don’t think anyone is denying Bunker Guardians in SPVP are fine.

But what about other playstyles?

I have found a lot of hybrid builds that worked at release and even 6 months ago now rendered useless because of conditions. These builds were a hell of a lot more fun than a Bunker. Aren’t games supposed to be fun?

Do ele’s have issues. I dunno. I don’t play one. How can I comment on a class I don’t have 100+ games in Spvp or 50+ ranks in WvW on.Their forum is elsewhere.

Svarty.8019:

Namu.5712:

Sure the prof needs some tweaks. But its far from red headed stepchild category. That belongs to engi, or some other class that is truly not viable in many areas

Engi?! Seriously, your post lost all credibility when you chose engi.

I should have been more clear compared to the rest of the professions they are rather lackluster for pve….

Namu.5712:

I should have been more clear compared to the rest of the professions they are rather lackluster for pve….

That’s not an accurate statement either.

every pvp team and every pve dungeon run wants a guardian. they’re fine.

Svarty.8019:

This may seem melodramatic

It is melodramatic (not unlike 90% of the complaints on this site), and if you want to see any changes, you should write something of substance, such a describing the problem in a particular game mode if you want to see change. Because you’d be hard pressed to prove that in pve. So I assume you’re talking about “esports” pvp (lol) or wvw, the later of which is quite debatable since it was never meant to be balanced.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Divinity.8041:

for SPVP, you guys show your rank (low) when you talk about Guardians being bad, or needing buffs?

Every team in every tournament since this game has started contained a guardian.

Guardians are borderline OP, the only reason people don’t complain is because they don’t deal huge damage, that is it. Done.

I don’t main a guardian…but am not bad enough to say they need a buff.

Who needs a buff? How about the class that had a 0% showing during the last tournament…ele.

no eles were harmed in this tournament

This guy right here, is a real PvP’er. Most people in this thread probably play WvW and call themselves PvP’ers.

Or they kill lone uplevels in wvw and call themselves pvp’ers.