(edited by CMF.5461)
Retaliation vs. Block
I’ll rather go with a retaliation build. Relying on block to stack burn (or just relying on burn for damage overall) can be easily countered with just one condition removal.
Again, I was going for a defensive build. Retaliation will not increase your ability to survive but only do thorns damage, so you still take full damage.
As I said, this is not an offensive build, but it is one that has been helping me to counter some of the more aggressive professions that have given me problems, such as warriors and 100 blades, or other similar big hitting abilities.
As far as a retal set up, I originally tried to do that one with a great sword, but relying on symbols became to restrictive for my mobility and keeping up with the target, the other option is hammer but that is fairly slow as well.
If you have an interesting retaliation build I would be interested in trying it out.
Oh yeah, thanks for reminding me why I was planning to get Defender’s Flame. I had totally forgot about Shelter +that trait.
Do you know how long is the burn from that trait?
I’m only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.
It is a one second burn, but with repeated blocks I can get the duration up to 11 seconds.
As trungalung said though, one good condition removal can wipe that damage away, but you can always reapply faster than they can typically get the condition removal back up.
don’t underestimate retaliation
it’s fantastic vs all the pw/hs thiefs and 1k blades warriors that run haste, a full hasted pistol whip combo will end up almost killing most thieves that attack you
Again, I was going for a defensive build. Retaliation will not increase your ability to survive but only do thorns damage, so you still take full damage.
As I said, this is not an offensive build, but it is one that has been helping me to counter some of the more aggressive professions that have given me problems, such as warriors and 100 blades, or other similar big hitting abilities.
As far as a retal set up, I originally tried to do that one with a great sword, but relying on symbols became to restrictive for my mobility and keeping up with the target, the other option is hammer but that is fairly slow as well.
If you have an interesting retaliation build I would be interested in trying it out.
You say you want to go a defensive build, but you went 25 radiance. You could have easily pick Monk’s Focus which adds a lot more survivability.
A retaliation build only relies on Signet of Judgement and SYG, not Symbol of Wrath.
It is a one second burn, but with repeated blocks I can get the duration up to 11 seconds.
As trungalung said though, one good condition removal can wipe that damage away, but you can always reapply faster than they can typically get the condition removal back up.
Since you need to block to get your burn up (well, not counting VoJ for now), it will be quite hard to reapply since the blocks cool down is 10+ seconds (passive removal is 10 seconds). Also, any serious PvPer wants at least one active removal (exp: Smite Condition) and one passive (exp: Signet of Resolve) due to the overwhelming popular of condition builds.
(edited by Trungalung.7850)
trung, I’m trying to keep this constructive but your superior attitude and negativity are really distracting with comments like “any real pvper”.
Regardless, no this is not an amazing build, but an idea I have been testing to move away from the generic builds I have been seeing. Once more, I am more than interested in trying the retal build you talk about so please post it or pm me with it.
As far cooldown on block, that is why there multiple forms of block instead of just one. Passive condition removal is every 10 seconds, active might be about 20-30. In essence 3 fairly reliable blocks in the form of protector’s strike (1 block every 15 seconds), shield of wrath (3 blocks every 36 seconds with faster focus cooldown), and shelter every 30 seconds that will block everything for a 2 second duration. Aegis of Courage also adds a block with active or passive.
As far as burning condition being removed, a passive condition removal typically only removes 1 condition every 10 seconds. Blind from Ray of Judgement and from virtue of justice cause vulnerability as well as symbols cause vulnerability, which may or may not get in the way of a condition removal.
Why did I not get Monk’s Focus? I wanted to, because of the meditation/self heals but I was in the mind set of focusing on the innate abilities of block which are: stop damage, cause burning, give might.
Based off of that, I saw extra damage via conditions might make this more effective in surviving as when I have played full defensive, I run out of answers with no skills up and an empty hp bar while my opponent has full life. It’s like beating a rock, eventually it will break but it never hit you back. This is not to say I wont go back and try to adjust for Monk’s Focus because that is still a great idea without sacrificing much defensive damage.
Back to the retaliation build, I completely see the value of retal and I repeat my interest so drop some knowledge on me =)
I spend tons of time in mists just respecing and going over stats/skills.
In the end, as I have said, this build I originally posted has tons of flaws, but it was an idea that I thought was interesting. I played it all this week and it has surprised me in it’s ability to survive while still keep an opponent worried about their life. Many times i have had a warrior or rogue run away from me cause they couldn’t kill me and they ran out of self heals. Is this an amazing “I win” build? No, in fact it needs lots of work and that is why I posted it. To see if anyone can help improve it or if I should scrap the idea and try something else (ie. retaliation)
Anyway, thanks for the feedback, one way or another. This may just end up as my pve build if anything.
Running a retal build tonight based off of what trung pointed out:
A retaliation build only relies on Signet of Judgement and SYG, not Symbol of Wrath.
This is much easier to keep retaliation up persistently, but I do find that I am dying very fast.
While I am doing thorns damage, I’m also taking full damage and the build is reliant on being hit. In the end I haven’t been getting many kills this way against someone doing active damage versus my passive damage.
I may have to adjust and set up more defensive WITH retal, but then I lose power which is what gives retal it’s damage.
Will keep it up and try to adjust though, give feedback with tips cause I love them.
(edited by CMF.5461)
I’m just being real. The build has flaws, and I’m pointing them out. Most of people doing TPvP are bringing quite a bit of condition removals due to the amount of condition stacked teams. They are also more likely to use the same build in hot join matches (like myself having so used to the same setup). For each block, you’ll only get 1 secs of burn which is not much. I know your idea, and it just might work given a few more buffs to the build (longer burn on block would be a start).
As for retaliation build, I used this in the beta: http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#MccozcM0mrRNomrRNo0axaGMzVbMMm
It was nerfed since then however. Signet of Judgement was nerfed so that you can’t have it up all the time (was 16 sec cds with a 15 secs duration). But with combination of Signet of Judgement, SYG, and retal on virtues, it should be up most of the time. I have smite condition + monk’s focus because I’ve never really run a build without it and have grown too dependent (you can spend those 30 points anywhere else you see fit to increase survivability). Use soldier’s amulet with Rune of the Warrior or Solider. For weapon choices, you’ll want to be as defensive as possible since the goal is to have the guy killing himself.
I will try that build right now. With the heal on meditation and smite condition on such a short cooldown it might give me that survivability I was looking for.
Additionally that site is a much better one than the two I have been using for linking/theory crafting builds so far. That guildhead.com page has quickly been bookmarked by me.
Thanks for the feedback trung =)
Small update, testing retal, with the build you posted Trung, I see what you mean about how it was nerfed and the uptime on retal has been lessened.
What I did notice is that with Perfect Inscriptions (signet passives increased) Signet Mastery (20% reduced cooldown on signets) and Vegneful (25% longer duration on retaliation)
The duration of retaliation from Signet of Judgement changes to about 13 seconds and the cooldown on to 16 seconds.
Here is the down side, it is only doing about 339 – 358 dmg depending on how I stack my power stat.
In effect it felt like I wasn’t doing anything in combat. Taking 1-5k dmg and returning 300~ dmg back did not seem worthwhile. So in order for retal to be more effective the dmg output has to be augmented by something else.
As for survivability, yes the build you provided increased survivability but I again was losing the benefit of being useful in combat versus another lump of meat to beat on.