Guild Wars 2

Just reduce the cooldown of Retreat to 25 seconds. That’s all it takes, and guardian can now have perma swiftness with Retreat + Staff, or Retreat + Pure of Voice.

Alternatively, increase the Swiftness duration (or even the duration of both Swiftness and Aegis) to 24 seconds, for the same effect without buffing (or with a smaller buff to) the Aegis component.

With pure of voice this one skill already grants nearly permenant swiftness and boon duration food makes it 100% uptime.

Alternatively 50% boon duration will get this to 100% uptime without any other source of swiftness or traiting.

Just using gnashblade food and a staff will give you 100% swiftness uptime (9s from staff, 23s from shout per 30s) but more importantly will give it to 5 other players.

There’s very few classes that can keep up 100% swiftness without investment, even warriors with a warhorn require traiting and some boon duration. Retreat feels in line with every other class and for its role (shouts being mainly support so you would be traiting support and most likely the trait) it is really good.

I only know 2 classes capable of permanent swiftness without much investment one being daredevil and the other being herald.

Make it so the meditation trait applies fury AND swiftness…

apharma.3741:

With pure of voice this one skill already grants nearly permenant swiftness and boon duration food makes it 100% uptime.

Alternatively 50% boon duration will get this to 100% uptime without any other source of swiftness or traiting.

Just using gnashblade food and a staff will give you 100% swiftness uptime (9s from staff, 23s from shout per 30s) but more importantly will give it to 5 other players.

There’s very few classes that can keep up 100% swiftness without investment, even warriors with a warhorn require traiting and some boon duration. Retreat feels in line with every other class and for its role (shouts being mainly support so you would be traiting support and most likely the trait) it is really good.

I only know 2 classes capable of permanent swiftness without much investment one being daredevil and the other being herald.

All classes, except guardian, can have +25% speed with only 1 utility skill or 1 trait. Guardian doesn’t have access to a +25% speed increase modifier at all.

Perma-swiftness is a lot more common than you think. In fact, all classes can have perma-swiftness (again, except Guardian) using 2 or less skills/traits.

Daredevil, Herald and Engineer all have permanent swiftness with one trait/skill, while Druid has a trait that grants +33% speed, which is the same as swiftness. And base Rev got another way of maintaining perma swiftness.

Elementalist has perma-swiftness with Glyph of Elemental Harmony (air attune) + the Glyph trait. Necromancer does the same with Spectral Walk + the Spectral trait. Mesmer does it with Signet of Inspiration + focus’ Temporal Curtain. Warrior makes a slightly bigger investment, using the Signet of Rage elite + warhorn’s Charge.

Besides the generic gearing options, guardian can maintain swiftness by having 3 things, Retreat, Pure of Voice and the staff. My change reduces that to 2, so you don’t have to dedicate your build into going faster.

RabbitUp.8294:

apharma.3741:

With pure of voice this one skill already grants nearly permenant swiftness and boon duration food makes it 100% uptime.

Alternatively 50% boon duration will get this to 100% uptime without any other source of swiftness or traiting.

Just using gnashblade food and a staff will give you 100% swiftness uptime (9s from staff, 23s from shout per 30s) but more importantly will give it to 5 other players.

There’s very few classes that can keep up 100% swiftness without investment, even warriors with a warhorn require traiting and some boon duration. Retreat feels in line with every other class and for its role (shouts being mainly support so you would be traiting support and most likely the trait) it is really good.

I only know 2 classes capable of permanent swiftness without much investment one being daredevil and the other being herald.

All classes, except guardian, can have +25% speed with only 1 utility skill or 1 trait. Guardian doesn’t have access to a +25% speed increase modifier at all.

Daredevil, Herald and Engineer all have permanent swiftness with one trait/skill, while Druid has a trait that grants +33% speed, which is the same as swiftness. And base Rev got another way of maintaining perma swiftness.

Elementalist has perma-swiftness with Glyph of Elemental Harmony (air attune) + the Glyph trait.

Besides the generic gearing options, guardian can maintain swiftness by having 3 things, Retreat, Pure of Voice and the staff. My change reduces that to 2, so you don’t have to dedicate your build into going faster.

Many of those options do not also provide you and allies with aegis nor do they compliment a set of runes and except maybe speedy kits as it counts as weapon swap.

Also 66% uptime of +33% movement speed is akin to having +22% movement speed so you aren’t significantly slower than a class picking that 25% movement speed option. That’s without mentioning that generally those 25% movement speed options are complete pants for combat where aegis is great especially with how guardians can make use of aegis.

Pure of voice and retreat (one trait + skill) is near permenant swiftness, sure it isn’t 100% uptime but it’s pretty close to not matter too much.

What are you wanting this change for anyway? I’m guessing PvE as most people recognise a guard has exceptional staying power in fights as well as teleports which are worth far more than permanent swiftness. For PvE just take the trait or run some boon duration, anywhere that matters you will be with a party where everyone contributes to swiftness uptime.

apharma.3741:

Many of those options do not also provide you and allies with aegis nor do they compliment a set of runes and except maybe speedy kits as it counts as weapon swap.

Also 66% uptime of +33% movement speed is akin to having +22% movement speed so you aren’t significantly slower than a class picking that 25% movement speed option. That’s without mentioning that generally those 25% movement speed options are complete pants for combat where aegis is great especially with how guardians can make use of aegis.

Pure of voice and retreat (one trait + skill) is near permenant swiftness, sure it isn’t 100% uptime but it’s pretty close to not matter too much.

What are you wanting this change for anyway? I’m guessing PvE as most people recognise a guard has exceptional staying power in fights as well as teleports which are worth far more than permanent swiftness. For PvE just take the trait or run some boon duration, anywhere that matters you will be with a party where everyone contributes to swiftness uptime.

Aegis is garbage, and it won’t change a thing if you give your allies aegis every 20 seconds instead of every 24.

A lot of the above options have other benefits, like not having to go in a totally useless line for pve, such as Honor. Some of these let you use great skills and weapons, and neither staff nor Retreat are great.

Anything below permanent +25% is too low. It’s what every class in the game gets, this is not even asking for buffs at this point, it’s a necessary change.

Guard has exceptional staying power in pve, that’s a good joke. Guard has 2 teleports that both require a target. If you are going from point A to point B, you don’t want to aggro mobs, so you can only use them by targeting something out of range. Meanwhile, mesmer can blink 3 times, and that’s a free-target teleport and warrior has 3 dashes between 2 weapons. I’m not even going to talk about DD.

I mean kitten , he’s not asking for alot. Pretty simple QoL request really. Don’t see why anyone would be against it, especially when most of the other threads I see are about Guardian is garbage in PvE somewhat due to the Guardian not providing much to the group. Not that this would fix that issue, but it suggests that lowering the cooldown on a shout by 5 seconds wouldn’t break anything either.

So if this change provides a small QoL buff and doesn’t break anything, why be so negative about it?

Shaogin.2679:

I mean kitten , he’s not asking for alot. Pretty simple QoL request really. Don’t see why anyone would be against it, especially when most of the other threads I see are about Guardian is garbage in PvE somewhat due to the Guardian not providing much to the group. Not that this would fix that issue, but it suggests that lowering the cooldown on a shout by 5 seconds wouldn’t break anything either.

So if this change provides a small QoL buff and doesn’t break anything, why be so negative about it?

It would be a big buff to support guard. You may not value it at base but if you run support guard you can trait retreat onto a 24s cool down which provides permenant swiftness to the whole party, a 1.2k heal when the aegis is popped, potentially another aegis to yourself and then everyone else as well as cleansing 1 condition and converting another to a boon.

Reducing the cool down to 25s will make it a 20s cool down utility that completely outshines every other option under support.

Also anyone saying aegis is worthless is just that at the game, blocking the right attack can make a big difference. When that warrior goes berserk you hit retreat and that burst skill denies them a condi cleanse, 600 hp/s regen and wastes the adrenaline bar. Using retreat when a thief stealths means everyone gets a warning when the thief will BS as you get a nice block message appearing. There’s lots of places where a well placed blind or aegis makes a huge difference, something that a lot of people have forgotten with their spammy face roll elite meta builds.

Support guard, played nowhere but 1 game mode. If aegis/20 is so much more broken than aegis/24, then reduce it to 25s for pve only.

Only aspect I see it having a moderate effect in is WvW. Every Guard and 5 other players will now have permanent swiftness. I don’t see Anet letting that happen, especially when we have speed runes.

Saiyan.1704:

Only aspect I see it having a moderate effect in is WvW. Every Guard and 5 other players will now have permanent swiftness. I don’t see Anet letting that happen, especially when we have speed runes.

Retreat + Pure of Voice + staff is already perma swiftness for 5, and all 3 are staples of the frontline guardian build anyway. I’m just making it slightly easier for the solo guard.

Let me list all the times I died because I didn’t have 25% movement speed:

Apparently I died because I didn’t have a QoL change.

Here, let me list all the times my quality of life suffered because I couldn’t move at least 3% faster:

The only place this makes any difference would be solo running around open world, even then get boon duration food, pure of voice and tada, solved.

To add flavour and to keep in line with the skill’s name, it will now only work if you are running away from your foe.

RabbitUp.8294:

Elementalist has perma-swiftness with Glyph of Elemental Harmony (air attune) + the Glyph trait. Necromancer does the same with Spectral Walk + the Spectral trait. Mesmer does it with Signet of Inspiration + focus’ Temporal Curtain. Warrior makes a slightly bigger investment, using the Signet of Rage elite + warhorn’s Charge.

Besides the generic gearing options, guardian can maintain swiftness by having 3 things, Retreat, Pure of Voice and the staff. My change reduces that to 2, so you don’t have to dedicate your build into going faster.

What the… how do you feel those are justifiable options when complaining about the options Guardians have?

Yes, Guardians lack a passive perma-speed trait or utility. But the options we got in combination with Retreat are way more attractive and less situational than the options you’ve listed above. By the way, Runes of the Pack + Retreat work out nicely as well.

I’m not against additional options. For example, Zeal could offer mobility with some trait reworks. But I just don’t see how the options we currently have are lacking. If anything, Retreat needs a buff not related to Swiftness.

GrahamW.5397:

It solves a non existent problem. Take the shout cd trait, some boon duration and you have perma swiftness. I get what you’re trying to suggest but this change is not needed.

Except that it’s literally the most demanded thing for guardian. Not this change in particular, but better access to movement speed. And you are not saying anything new, only proving that you didn’t read my posts. I never said permanent swiftness is not possible.

In regards to wvw, i wouldn’t say retreat is a staple of frontline builds (it is a very viable option) since its more of a flex slot for your utilities then something that will be in every build, but thats kind of a different topic so i won’t say too much.

It’s one of the popular choices and it can offer perma-swiftness to 5 with the frontline build. The point was that it wouldn’t be a change for what the build can do.

Also revs exist.

What’s that supposed to mean?

i would say that guardian shouts are very weak and underwhelming is a issue, more than retreat is in need of anything alone.

It is not funny as i like to play with shouts with mace shield, and im forced to play nuub crried by damage builds to look good… not every one likes to play DPS.

Anet needs to buff some traits(mace and shield) and the shouts utilities..

It is a set up that does no damage and the support is very very weak no matter how the CD get reduced…

That and Virtues traits are stupid, who want 240-260 retaliation? its useless… bothin traits and the consecration…

RabbitUp.8294:

Really? How are guardians options more attractive in pve? Honor, Retreat and the staff are all but useless in that game mode.

Meanwhile, mesmer already uses Focus and SoI in their regualr builds. Ele’s Air traitline is amazing, it comes with a minor trait for +25%, and since they already use Glyph as their selfish heal of choice, they can just change from Aeromancer’s Training/Tempest Defense to Inscription when they want swiftness. Necromancer already uses Soul Reaping, so they just change 1 trait, and Spectral Walk is a much better skill than Retreat.

You are literally wrong about all of them, except warrior. And even for warrior, I would rather change skills and weapons than mess with my traitlines.

Am I? You make it sound like taking Honor is that aweful. It is not. Sure, no damage modifiers yadda yadda. But in scenarios where you aim for them you don’t need perma Swiftness anyway.

Retreat + Pure of Voice is very flexible when it comes to creating builds. Removing conditions and being able to more frequently negate a fatal blow on your party is never useless. You don’t even need Staff for that.

Meanwhile, you suggestion is picking a Glyph plus the related trait to get perma Swiftness. Why would any Elementalist ever make such an investment? You said it yourself: There is a way less expensive Minor for movement speed. However, what about all the Elementalists not picking Air? Why is Air okay, but Honor isn’t? Why is it okay for other classes to switch traits or utilities, but it is too much of a bother on Guardian?

Mesmers regularly picking Focus? When? Where? I’m not talking meta build but even on none meta this is debatable. You won’t want SoI on your bar unless you are playing boonshare or a Distortion build which both usually are only used in game modes where you don’t need them for the Swiftness to begin with.

Why is it okay for a Necro to pick Spectral Mastery and Spectral Walk? Although the trait competes with one which is pretty important for your shroud? While not getting perma Swiftness? How is this okay, while it is not for Guardians? And why is this set up better although it doesn’t offer any group utility? Since we ar at it: How do you feel about two other mobility options being stuck in the same traitline while WH will put you in combat all the time?

My point being: This is a very subjective discussion. However, ‘mathematically’ Retreat + Pure Voice or boon duration isn’t any worse than options on other classes. Maybe you don’t like this option. But again, that’s subjective. Focus + SoI (Mes), Spectral Walk + Spectral Mastery (Nec), WH + weapon trait (War) etc. are not universally better.

Your issue seems to be that you don’t want to pick Honor for movement speed. That’s a fair point. It’s also a fair point that other classes might have more options. However, it doesn’t mean that they are more attractive in general. And it doesn’t mean that Retreat sucks and needs to be buffed. It just doesn’t suit you.

It’s worth noting that Spectral Mastery doesn’t effect Spectral Walk’s swiftness, so you need to take warhorn with spectral walk instead, which can put you into combat unnecessarily.

RabbitUp.8294:

GrahamW.5397:

It solves a non existent problem. Take the shout cd trait, some boon duration and you have perma swiftness. I get what you’re trying to suggest but this change is not needed.

Except that it’s literally the most demanded thing for guardian. Not this change in particular, but better access to movement speed. And you are not saying anything new, only proving that you didn’t read my posts. I never said permanent swiftness is not possible.

In regards to wvw, i wouldn’t say retreat is a staple of frontline builds (it is a very viable option) since its more of a flex slot for your utilities then something that will be in every build, but thats kind of a different topic so i won’t say too much.

It’s one of the popular choices and it can offer perma-swiftness to 5 with the frontline build. The point was that it wouldn’t be a change for what the build can do.

Also revs exist.

What’s that supposed to mean?

I never said that you said perma swiftness wasn’t possible, im saying because it is possible and so easy for guard to do that the change you’re suggesting solves an issue that doesn’t exist. Rev part was about wvw, every group should have a rev who can pulse swiftness which is basically permanent while you’re running from place to place. So guards can drop retreat for other options which there are many.

Xaylin.1860:

Meanwhile, you suggestion is picking a Glyph plus the related trait to get perma Swiftness. Why would any Elementalist ever make such an investment? You said it yourself: There is a way less expensive Minor for movement speed. However, what about all the Elementalists not picking Air? Why is Air okay, but Honor isn’t? Why is it okay for other classes to switch traits or utilities, but it is too much of a bother on Guardian?

20% reduced cooldown on your selfish heal of choice is nothing to be sneezed at. That said, once you’re invested into Air you already have the 25% move speed boost when attuned to air anyway, so adding Swiftness is a smaller boost.

Generally if I want to run somewhere as an elementalist, I grab staff and alternate Windborne Speed and the glyph while in air attunement – that will do it. If, for whatever reason I don’t want to run staff, or I want the extra wiggle room, taking the glyph trait from Air will do it with the glyph alone. If for whatever reason I don’t want to run the air traitline, I can slot Signet of Air while running.

With all this said, though, some maths:

Using Retreat on recharge grants 33% additional move speed for 20/24 seconds with Pure of Voice. This works out to a net 27.5% increase – which is better than the passive 25% traits and signets. Without Pure of Voice, it becomes 33% additional move speed for 20/30 seconds, for a net 22% increase – a little less than the passive stuff, but not by much. When running through hostile terrain, as well, guardian gets the benefit of Aegis blocking stray hits and preventing them from putting you into combat mode, thereby slowing you down – this can make a big difference sometimes.

Xaylin.1860:

Am I? You make it sound like taking Honor is that aweful. It is not. Sure, no damage modifiers yadda yadda. But in scenarios where you aim for them you don’t need perma Swiftness anyway.

Retreat + Pure of Voice is very flexible when it comes to creating builds. Removing conditions and being able to more frequently negate a fatal blow on your party is never useless. You don’t even need Staff for that.

You know what Retreat + Pure of Voice isn’t? It’s not perma swiftness. You know what my suggestion’s aiming at? Exactly that.

Meanwhile, you suggestion is picking a Glyph plus the related trait to get perma Swiftness. Why would any Elementalist ever make such an investment? You said it yourself: There is a way less expensive Minor for movement speed. However, what about all the Elementalists not picking Air? Why is Air okay, but Honor isn’t? Why is it okay for other classes to switch traits or utilities, but it is too much of a bother on Guardian?

Mesmers regularly picking Focus? When? Where? I’m not talking meta build but even on none meta this is debatable. You won’t want SoI on your bar unless you are playing boonshare or a Distortion build which both usually are only used in game modes where you don’t need them for the Swiftness to begin with.

Why is it okay for a Necro to pick Spectral Mastery and Spectral Walk? Although the trait competes with one which is pretty important for your shroud? While not getting perma Swiftness? How is this okay, while it is not for Guardians? And why is this set up better although it doesn’t offer any group utility? Since we ar at it: How do you feel about two other mobility options being stuck in the same traitline while WH will put you in combat all the time?

My point being: This is a very subjective discussion. However, ‘mathematically’ Retreat + Pure Voice or boon duration isn’t any worse than options on other classes. Maybe you don’t like this option. But again, that’s subjective. Focus + SoI (Mes), Spectral Walk + Spectral Mastery (Nec), WH + weapon trait (War) etc. are not universally better.

Your issue seems to be that you don’t want to pick Honor for movement speed. That’s a fair point. It’s also a fair point that other classes might have more options. However, it doesn’t mean that they are more attractive in general. And it doesn’t mean that Retreat sucks and needs to be buffed. It just doesn’t suit you.

The more you talk, the more you prove you don’t know a thing about Mesmers. I just pity your pugs.

In the same breath, you say Honor is fine, but picking 1 single trait in a trait line you’d be normally using is an “investment”.

This is a joke.

GrahamW.5397:

RabbitUp.8294:

GrahamW.5397:

It solves a non existent problem. Take the shout cd trait, some boon duration and you have perma swiftness. I get what you’re trying to suggest but this change is not needed.

Except that it’s literally the most demanded thing for guardian. Not this change in particular, but better access to movement speed. And you are not saying anything new, only proving that you didn’t read my posts. I never said permanent swiftness is not possible.

In regards to wvw, i wouldn’t say retreat is a staple of frontline builds (it is a very viable option) since its more of a flex slot for your utilities then something that will be in every build, but thats kind of a different topic so i won’t say too much.

It’s one of the popular choices and it can offer perma-swiftness to 5 with the frontline build. The point was that it wouldn’t be a change for what the build can do.

Also revs exist.

What’s that supposed to mean?

I never said that you said perma swiftness wasn’t possible, im saying because it is possible and so easy for guard to do that the change you’re suggesting solves an issue that doesn’t exist. Rev part was about wvw, every group should have a rev who can pulse swiftness which is basically permanent while you’re running from place to place. So guards can drop retreat for other options which there are many.

Great, from today, you better be on your rev sharing swiftness with me every time I want to do open-world stuff.

RabbitUp.8294:

Xaylin.1860:

Am I? You make it sound like taking Honor is that aweful. It is not. Sure, no damage modifiers yadda yadda. But in scenarios where you aim for them you don’t need perma Swiftness anyway.

Retreat + Pure of Voice is very flexible when it comes to creating builds. Removing conditions and being able to more frequently negate a fatal blow on your party is never useless. You don’t even need Staff for that.

You know what Retreat + Pure of Voice isn’t? It’s not perma swiftness. You know what my suggestion’s aiming at? Exactly that.

Meanwhile, you suggestion is picking a Glyph plus the related trait to get perma Swiftness. Why would any Elementalist ever make such an investment? You said it yourself: There is a way less expensive Minor for movement speed. However, what about all the Elementalists not picking Air? Why is Air okay, but Honor isn’t? Why is it okay for other classes to switch traits or utilities, but it is too much of a bother on Guardian?

Mesmers regularly picking Focus? When? Where? I’m not talking meta build but even on none meta this is debatable. You won’t want SoI on your bar unless you are playing boonshare or a Distortion build which both usually are only used in game modes where you don’t need them for the Swiftness to begin with.

Why is it okay for a Necro to pick Spectral Mastery and Spectral Walk? Although the trait competes with one which is pretty important for your shroud? While not getting perma Swiftness? How is this okay, while it is not for Guardians? And why is this set up better although it doesn’t offer any group utility? Since we ar at it: How do you feel about two other mobility options being stuck in the same traitline while WH will put you in combat all the time?

My point being: This is a very subjective discussion. However, ‘mathematically’ Retreat + Pure Voice or boon duration isn’t any worse than options on other classes. Maybe you don’t like this option. But again, that’s subjective. Focus + SoI (Mes), Spectral Walk + Spectral Mastery (Nec), WH + weapon trait (War) etc. are not universally better.

Your issue seems to be that you don’t want to pick Honor for movement speed. That’s a fair point. It’s also a fair point that other classes might have more options. However, it doesn’t mean that they are more attractive in general. And it doesn’t mean that Retreat sucks and needs to be buffed. It just doesn’t suit you.

The more you talk, the more you prove you don’t know a thing about Mesmers. I just pity your pugs.

In the same breath, you say Honor is fine, but picking 1 single trait in a trait line you’d be normally using is an “investment”.

This is a joke.

GrahamW.5397:

RabbitUp.8294:

GrahamW.5397:

It solves a non existent problem. Take the shout cd trait, some boon duration and you have perma swiftness. I get what you’re trying to suggest but this change is not needed.

Except that it’s literally the most demanded thing for guardian. Not this change in particular, but better access to movement speed. And you are not saying anything new, only proving that you didn’t read my posts. I never said permanent swiftness is not possible.

In regards to wvw, i wouldn’t say retreat is a staple of frontline builds (it is a very viable option) since its more of a flex slot for your utilities then something that will be in every build, but thats kind of a different topic so i won’t say too much.

It’s one of the popular choices and it can offer perma-swiftness to 5 with the frontline build. The point was that it wouldn’t be a change for what the build can do.

Also revs exist.

What’s that supposed to mean?

I never said that you said perma swiftness wasn’t possible, im saying because it is possible and so easy for guard to do that the change you’re suggesting solves an issue that doesn’t exist. Rev part was about wvw, every group should have a rev who can pulse swiftness which is basically permanent while you’re running from place to place. So guards can drop retreat for other options which there are many.

Great, from today, you better be on your rev sharing swiftness with me every time I want to do open-world stuff.

Read, wvw. Open world pve you can run literally anything you want and still be effective so i don’t see how that changes anything. You don’t even need to take the trait for perma swiftness, staff+retreat and some boon duration is enough to give you perma swiftness for just running around open pve.

Also apparently me disagreeing with you about this being an issue or not an issue is a violation and anet removed my first comment. Lmao.

RabbitUp.8294:

The more you talk, the more you prove you don’t know a thing about Mesmers. I just pity your pugs.

[…]

In the same breath, you say Honor is fine, but picking 1 single trait in a trait line you’d be normally using is an “investment”.

This is a joke.

You probably should reread the part about picking a trait and the related investment. You listed options on other classes which aren’t any better or feasible while making them sound oh so great. Ultimatively, your whole rant boils down to not liking Retreat + PoV (or Staff) – presumably because it doesn’t fit your dream build – even though it is perfectly fine as is. In contrast to you, me, the pitty pug can live with the hardship of making choices.

As I said, if anything, we should discuss (new) options aside from something centered around Retreat. But sure… go on throwing a tantrum. I can take it in my blissful ignorance.

Xaylin.1860:

You probably should reread the part about picking a trait and the related investment. You listed options on other classes which aren’t any better or feasible while making them sound oh so great.

1 trait =/= an entire traitline

Ultimatively, your whole rant boils down to not liking Retreat + PoV (or Staff) – presumably because it doesn’t fit your dream build – even though it is perfectly fine as is. In contrast to you, me, the pitty pug can live with the hardship of making choices.

That’s what you got? My suggestion was specifically to make Retreat + PoV (or staff) our perma-swiftness option, which it currently isn’t.

Try to understand what’s being discusased here at least, before dismissing it as a rant.

As I said, if anything, we should discuss (new) options aside from something centered around Retreat. But sure… go on throwing a tantrum. I can take it in my blissful ignorance.

The thread looks like this when I’m asking for a simple cd reduction, and you think we can have a discussion about giving guardian entirely new ways of having increased movement speed? I picked this suggestion specifically because it was the tamest, but the trolls like Ghotistyx are here all the same.

Its just not a new argument after hearing 5 years of the same thing, and even then we’ve had plenty of qol changes in regards to ooc speed. Retreat used to be a 40s cd iirc, Staff gave less total swiftness duration, SY used to be 60s? and Traveler’s runes would peak at something like 11g per. Ooc movement speed has specifically been stated as an intentional limitation of the Guardian, and yet we now have ways to get comparable results. Our in combat speed is still quite good with the leaps and teleports we have access to, so that doesn’t really need to change.

But its easy to toss away a dissenting opinion as “trolling”.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Its just not a new argument after hearing 5 years of the same thing, and even then we’ve had plenty of qol changes in regards to ooc speed. Retreat used to be a 40s cd iirc, Staff gave less total swiftness duration, SY used to be 60s? and Traveler’s runes would peak at something like 11g per.

Retreat used to be 60s. HoT launched with it still being 40s and other kitten like Sanctuary being 120s. If this shows anything, it’s that guardian didn’t get its balance pass with HoT like the other classes, but 1 year later with the symbol patch. And if Retreat can be reduced from 60 to 30, what is it so outrageous that it’s reduced by 5 more seconds?

Staff was wierd, it used to give 8 seconds of swiftness if you didn’t have it already, 1 second if you did. It works better with other sources of swiftness now, but worse as standalone.

Ooc movement speed has specifically been stated as an intentional limitation of the Guardian, and yet we now have ways to get comparable results.

And since guardian has this unique drawback among all classes, what’s the counterbalance? What unique strength does guardian get that makes up for it? Or to switch it around, what aspect of guardian makes this limitation necessary?

Thief, for example, doesn’t get a 1200 range weapon because they have so much mobility. We don’t get a 1200 weapon because “muh flavour”. We are always getting the short end of the stick, and there are people like you that support it. What you don’t realise is that you are looking at a mechanical limitation to find the flavour of the class. That only shows how much it’s lacking of real flavour.

Our in combat speed is still quite good with the leaps and teleports we have access to, so that doesn’t really need to change.

There are professions with more mobility, more defenses, more health, more range than guardian and they still get easy access to swiftness. Yes, it needs to change. A qol feauture should never be a balancing factor.

But its easy to toss away a dissenting opinion as “trolling”.

Not the opinion, but the way it was voiced. Yours was not the only disagreeing opinion I got in this thread. It’s also easy to dismiss a suggestion as low-quality effort, though, if I may add.

Just look at thief, they will get 1200 range sniper weapon and with such mobility they can dance and pew pew from a far. Hope now expansion give guardians passive movement speed finally cause firebrand/purifier will be supportive class and slow AF.

Tired of using speed/traveler runes for 5 years.