Runes of the engineer/ firebrand
Who would ever take those, Firebrand will use Traveler runes as usual cause hes slower than DH and Core guard together.
Might go with boon duration runes as well and use Retreat which also (if traited) gives quickness.
In its current iteration FB will use at least 2 shouts (Retreat and SyG) since they actually hit allies and also provide quickness. I believe most FB will invest in superior aria if going support and i also think trooper runes might be an option and use the condi removal mantra for personal use only.
Shout elite is also better compared to the mantra elite and also provide quickness in a much more reliable fashion.
Tbh i cant se any one using mantras as asupport tool in an affective fashion.
So support will go with 2-3 shouts one mantra for personal use and shelter as heal and renewed focus as elite.
Might go with boon duration runes as well and use Retreat which also (if traited) gives quickness.
In its current iteration FB will use at least 2 shouts (Retreat and SyG) since they actually hit allies and also provide quickness. I believe most FB will invest in superior aria if going support and i also think trooper runes might be an option and use the condi removal mantra for personal use only.
Shout elite is also better compared to the mantra elite and also provide quickness in a much more reliable fashion.
Tbh i cant se any one using mantras as asupport tool in an affective fashion.
So support will go with 2-3 shouts one mantra for personal use and shelter as heal and renewed focus as elite.
When they fix SyG so that it grants 2s of quickness instead for 10, what’s the point in using shouts? You are dedicating 2 traits and a rune set to make them work, and the only thing that’s changed is they now each grant 2 seconds of quickness on a 24s cooldown, and provided that you don’t use them at the same time.
What’s going to happen is that quickness share will be a pve thing only, and wvw/pvp firebrand will just forget it exists, apart from personal use.
I could be wrong but stand your grand might be working as intended because it grants 5 stacks of stability at once which would be 10 seconds of quickness. Between that the shout elite feel my wrat, and the mantra cone quickness and heal skill traited it might be possible to up keep it on a party. Add in some boon duration and you have something.
Might go with boon duration runes as well and use Retreat which also (if traited) gives quickness.
In its current iteration FB will use at least 2 shouts (Retreat and SyG) since they actually hit allies and also provide quickness. I believe most FB will invest in superior aria if going support and i also think trooper runes might be an option and use the condi removal mantra for personal use only.
Shout elite is also better compared to the mantra elite and also provide quickness in a much more reliable fashion.
Tbh i cant se any one using mantras as asupport tool in an affective fashion.
So support will go with 2-3 shouts one mantra for personal use and shelter as heal and renewed focus as elite.
When they fix SyG so that it grants 2s of quickness instead for 10, what’s the point in using shouts? You are dedicating 2 traits and a rune set to make them work, and the only thing that’s changed is they now each grant 2 seconds of quickness on a 24s cooldown, and provided that you don’t use them at the same time.
What’s going to happen is that quickness share will be a pve thing only, and wvw/pvp firebrand will just forget it exists, apart from personal use.
That was the feeling i had as well, with mantras what is the point of having shouts?
mantra of lore itself is a 2+2 condi cleanse on a 20-25CD, and both casts of the mantras have heals as well.
And the elite mantra that gives stability and stun breakers for WvW will be the options to choose imo.
1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.
I could be wrong but stand your grand might be working as intended because it grants 5 stacks of stability at once which would be 10 seconds of quickness. Between that the shout elite feel my wrat, and the mantra cone quickness and heal skill traited it might be possible to up keep it on a party. Add in some boon duration and you have something.
Stalwart Speed has an internal cooldown of 5 seconds. Multiple stacks shouldn’t be able to ignore this icd. This is how Venom Echantment works, for example. Even if you inflict multiple stacks of torment at the same time, the poison is the same.
Keeping permanent quickness was never the issue. You can ignore SyG completely and use the 2 quickness traits, the heal mantra, the quickness mantra, and Feel my Wrath. If you spam all charges of Mantra of Potence and recast it every time, you can keep perma-quickness with only 31% boon duration, or 14% with alacrity.
The issue was always that the area you affect is extremely small, which makes this build only usable in pve, and even then it will be a struggle.
Might go with boon duration runes as well and use Retreat which also (if traited) gives quickness.
In its current iteration FB will use at least 2 shouts (Retreat and SyG) since they actually hit allies and also provide quickness. I believe most FB will invest in superior aria if going support and i also think trooper runes might be an option and use the condi removal mantra for personal use only.
Shout elite is also better compared to the mantra elite and also provide quickness in a much more reliable fashion.
Tbh i cant se any one using mantras as asupport tool in an affective fashion.
So support will go with 2-3 shouts one mantra for personal use and shelter as heal and renewed focus as elite.
When they fix SyG so that it grants 2s of quickness instead for 10, what’s the point in using shouts? You are dedicating 2 traits and a rune set to make them work, and the only thing that’s changed is they now each grant 2 seconds of quickness on a 24s cooldown, and provided that you don’t use them at the same time.
What’s going to happen is that quickness share will be a pve thing only, and wvw/pvp firebrand will just forget it exists, apart from personal use.
Well its not 2s quickness, it is 10 sec since shouts actually hit allies.
And i am not so certain that SyG is bugged. The way it worked during preview is the exact same way AH works, every applikation of a stacking boon counts. Hallowed ground did the exact same thing as SyG, even though quickness didnt stack as it supposed to do when using multiple skills or repplications from the same skill.
And you dont have to trait shouts or use the runes. I had a Valor/virtues/Fb setup in wvw that was nice. And in the end i used only one mantra (remove condition) as utility skill and shelter/RF as heal/elite. I swapped the other mantras for Retreat and SyG and there was huge difference in impact. The advantage with AH is that you can actually tell when you are doing a good jobb at distributing boons to allies and shouts are way better then mantras for support.
Also remember that the stacking of quickness was bugged during the pre view so quickness didnt stack the way it should have.
And i am not so certain that SyG is bugged. The way it worked during preview is the exact same way AH works, every applikation of a stacking boon counts. Hallowed ground did the exact same thing as SyG, even though quickness didnt stack as it supposed to do when using multiple skills or repplications from the same skill.
Stalwart Speed, the trait that grants quickness with stability/aegis, has a 5s cooldown. Altruistic Healing has no cooldown.
Hallowed Ground, on the other hand, worked as intended.
And you dont have to trait shouts or use the runes. I had a Valor/virtues/Fb setup in wvw that was nice. And in the end i used only one mantra (remove condition) as utility skill and shelter/RF as heal/elite. I swapped the other mantras for Retreat and SyG and there was huge difference in impact. The advantage with AH is that you can actually tell when you are doing a good jobb at distributing boons to allies and shouts are way better then mantras for support.
Shouts are not new skills. We had them for 5 years and shout builds have proven to be mediocre. Of course, there was a huge difference when you swapped your skills, you were playing wvw with a mantra build, and mantras are garbage there. So, while shouts are better than mantras, we have other skills that are better than both.
SyG will be used anyway, but Retreat does nothing that useful, 1 stack of aegis on a 30s cooldown is nothing, and swiftness is completely superfluous. I’d much rather use WoR or Sanctuary, especially if I go Virtues.
(edited by RabbitUp.8294)
And i am not so certain that SyG is bugged. The way it worked during preview is the exact same way AH works, every applikation of a stacking boon counts. Hallowed ground did the exact same thing as SyG, even though quickness didnt stack as it supposed to do when using multiple skills or repplications from the same skill.
Stalwart Speed, the trait that grants quickness with stability/aegis, has a 5s cooldown. Altruistic Healing has no cooldown.
Hallowed Ground, on the other hand, worked as intended.
And you dont have to trait shouts or use the runes. I had a Valor/virtues/Fb setup in wvw that was nice. And in the end i used only one mantra (remove condition) as utility skill and shelter/RF as heal/elite. I swapped the other mantras for Retreat and SyG and there was huge difference in impact. The advantage with AH is that you can actually tell when you are doing a good jobb at distributing boons to allies and shouts are way better then mantras for support.
Shouts are not new skills. We had them for 5 years and shout builds have proven to be mediocre. Of course, there was a huge difference when you swapped your skills, you were playing wvw with a mantra build, and mantras are garbage there. So, while shouts are better than mantras, we have other skills that are better than both.
SyG will be used anyway, but Retreat does nothing that useful, 1 stack of aegis on a 30s cooldown is nothing, and swiftness is completely superfluous. I’d much rather use WoR or Sanctuary, especially if I go Virtues.
My point was that AH is applied 5 times as well in one single spell. it might be so its the application of quickness that has an internal cd, not the application of a boon. There is a big difference between the two. Well we will see at release and can just speculate atm.
The hallowed ground example was a reference to AH function not FB. When i read my post again i realize it makes no sense in the context i wrote it.
My point with shouts is that they are better to use as support in FB compared with most mantras. If people run a Fb support build i bet my ass that at least one utility will be SyG no matter if its bugged or not, one will be Purging flames and hallowed ground might be an option even though i suspect Mantra of Lore (personal use) will be in there.
We can argue that shouts are bad or not (i think they need a buff) but in the current state of the guardian they are one of the best (even though mediocre) support tools we have and FB mantras in its current iteration wont change that.
And i think most support guardian that play FB will invest in honor since the best traits for aegis and healing power is in there and with FB Pure of Heart will be one of the best traits in the entire game, say hello “Retreat”, now we are talking about quickness and a nice small heal. Runes of the defender (symbolheal build) or trooper (shoutbuild) might also be interesting. Troopers also add tough/vit so you can have pretty nice condi damage thru armor and trinkets, with about 1200 in healing power and still be around 18k health.
So i have to disagree, there are tons of arguments that at least two shouts will be in a build that revolves around healing, aegis and quickness.
But again, we will see how things pan out and a 600 cone on mantras and i will definitely reconsider.
All consecrations are of interest in a FB build even though WoR has lost its luster due to almost all damage in wvw is aoe and when roaming its only purging flames that has its place and is so in condi builds only.
(edited by Brutaly.6257)
Most considered Stalwart Speed to be “bugged”, this “bug” was reported on reddit as well, and the general response towards it has been one of amusement; most do not expect Stalwart Speed to remain unchanged at launch. With 100% boon duration, u can grant 20 seconds of quickness with a single shout, which is pretty insane. It will be tweaked for sure.
I also find it to be super strong and more of an amusement.
But it actually makes sense that if a single skill applies multiple stacks of stability in one application you should get more quickneess out of it. After all we have to assume that Anet has balanced skills thru their cd/impact ratio.
Given that SyG, imo, is the most powerful shout (impact/cd) it might actually be so that its not a bug but a balance issue. I wouldnt be suprised one bit if SyG is nerfed and Stalwart Speed remains untouched. I am not saying i want that but i wouldnt be surprised.
Stalwart Speed activates 5 times for SyG, but Quickfire is not activated multiple times even if quickness was applied multiple times at once. That is why I consider Stalwart Speed with SyG as an inconsistency.