Chorazin
[lion]~ riperonis
[tRex]
[lion]~ riperonis
[tRex]
Sanctuary
concentration made for group play mainly thus more wvw than tpvp or pve
PF – true cleanse 3 conditions reduced conditions duration by 30% act as fire field so with blast hammer or focs 3-6 might stack and gs leap fire aura and burning for 6-8 sec every foe entering and exiting the are . overall good skill
HG – give aoe stability and fire field increases boon duration . again good skill in several situation if you need to control an area
sanctuary – indeed small radios of 120 so melee can attack you. heals a bit 1200 , and prevent projectile (engi/ranger mainly)
WOR – good skills in several situation against range class
as you see most of them for group play (not tpvp) and some rune them in wvw with concentration build
Consecrations also aren’t very good in tPvP because their cooldown is pretty high compared to the effect. In PvE they have the problem that a lot of fights aren’t static enough.
Wall of Relfections is pretty good, but only because Guardians have some serious issues with ranged professions. Sanctuary is too small to be meaningful. The best use I’ve found with it is making consecrations ground-targeted to knock people of positions. Pretty good for area denial, but that doesn’t use most of its effect.
The other two’s effects aren’t bad but Hallowed Ground has an 80 second cooldown, which alone makes it not worth taking. Purging Flames isn’t half bad either (and a good way to get a Fire Field), but it’s most important effect (condition cleanse) can be done in a lot of ways as a Guardian and almost all of them are better in any situation.
You know what would make them work? If they were actually annoying to walk into for opponents.
“Come on, hit me!”
PvE
They are meta for a guardian to trait MoC, and they are working as intended.
But that’s pve.
I would adjust them a little tough
- Hallowed Ground – decrease the CD to 70s untraited.
- Purging Flames – CD is perfect, make it remove an additional 1 condition per pulse. It pulses 5 times in 5s.
- Wall of Reflection – perfect
- Sanctuary – decrease the CD to 90s untraited. (lol @ 120 CD for an utility). Increase the radius by 60. Make it so it pulses a 1s chill, 6 pulses total in 6s, for people that have stab and enter the dome. That, or make it provide weakness to foes entering it.
tPvp
Shouts shouldn’t be more optimal for a bunker guard than consecrations. Especially on conquest. The fact that you can render a Hamm warri, fearmancer, engie cc useless for 12s with HG it should be a must to have it on your bar.
Same goes for Sanctuary. The fact that you could offer a safe spot for your team on point to hold the decap for at least 6s it’s huge. And ofc you would have PF which in theory should remove more conditions than VoR traited, just because it requires you to stay in the circle.
All of those in theory should have a priority in tPvp over shouts.
But, because Anet gave the guardian the ultimate sustain trait off all classes (VoR passive) we sadly can’t stop from using shouts either to proc AH or PoV.
And the sad thing is that Anet really believes in the following and considers it balanced:
Resolve
Through Resolve, guardians passively regenerate health, allowing them to wade into the most dangerous situation and come out alive. – Anet circa 2012
LOL!
Edit: added LOL!
(edited by creepmatic.9435)
When looking at skills you have to consider every aspect of it. Many skills have effects that are usually overlooked. There are 3 things you also have to look at:
Before Engaging
During combat
Run Away
and then you also have to look at the situation you could end up in.
You should consider Purging Flames more as a self condition removal rather than a party condition removal(its range is pathetic for removing conditions from allies).
Purging Flames can be quite useful in WvW. The part you didnt mention is that PF is the shortest cooldown Fire Field a Guardian can have. Thanks to its short cooldown, you get to use it once before engaging when your commander says “Fire Fields and Blast” and then use it again during combat to remove conditions while burning foes.
In addition, conditions fly around a lot in WvW. If you are being chased by a zerg and are Immobilized and want to get away, you are going to pop your VoR(Absolute Resolution). Then what if you are Immobilized again? So then you are going to pop Renewed Focus while you are still Immobilized and wait for 2 seconds of Invulnerability, then pop VoR again? No, they will probably have caught up with you and destroyed you the instant your Renewed Focus is done casting(while you are still Immobilized). This is where PF shines. You use PF to remove the first Immobilized. Even if they reapply Immobilized immediately, you are then still inside the PF area, it will be a very short Immobilized and you can still get away.
You can consider Trooper Runes+Pure of Voice and Absolute Resolution deal with conditions very effectively, but that’s 6 points in Honor and 4 points in Virtues, meaning it is used for that very dedicated Guardian support builds(which does very little damage).
PF however, only comes at the cost of a utility slot to be effective as a self-condition removal, and can be included in any other Guardian builds.
Sanctuary is a pretty bad skill because of the long cooldown, but it has its niche in spvp(and sometimes in WvW). It can be used on top of downed opponents to give you a better chance at stomping them off, even in front of their allies. Admittedly, Stand Your Ground does a better job at giving you a better chance of stomping a downed enemy more often thanks to its low cooldown.
But there are situations where Sanctuary does the better job:
There are 3 active opponents and 1 downed opponent. By the time your stomping animation ends, even if you have SYG to guarantee your stomping is not interrupted, the 3 active opponents will have revived the downed one with F and your stomping will fail. That’s not the case if you use Sanctuary on top of the downed opponent. First Sanctuary pushes the opponents away from that ally, interrupting their attempt to revive. While you start the stomping animation, they will have to run to that ally again, and all 3 would need to have Stability at the same time to revive that ally in time(because you are stomping) or they will be pushed back again.
Another situation is having a Thief opponent and a downed opponent. The Thief will use Shadow Refuge and attempt to revive their downed stealthed ally. If you pop Sanctuary right on top of the downed ally(you know the location since downed players cant move), it will kick the Thief out of Shadow Refuge. Since Thieves have no access to Stability, they cannot return inside the Shadow Refuge to re-attempt a revive on that ally or they will get pushed back again. Meanwhile, you can continue to damage the stealthed downed opponent with other things to stop them from bandaging, and/or take down the revealed Thief.
(edited by Turtle Dragon.9241)
PvEAnd the sad thing is that Anet really believes in the following and considers it balanced:
Resolve
Through Resolve, guardians passively regenerate health, allowing them to wade into the most dangerous situation and come out alive. – Anet circa 2012
If the Consecrations actually pulsed one-second boons, it’d make a pretty good Altruist Healing build. Alternatively, we should have a trait that provides some (significant) amount of healing when using them (or when players enter them or something). That’d be nice.
“Come on, hit me!”
Sanctuary is used all the time in sPvP by bunker guards – for better or for worse. It can be pretty nifty in holding points, largely because of the on-going KB. It is also good for reviving team mates if needed. The CD is pretty sucky though and it is rather niche. I don’t think there are any situations where it is applied outside of sPvP because there are always better set ups without it
Desolation EU
Guardian / WvW Enthusiast
Guardian / WvW Enthusiast
It is used by some sPvP bunker guards, but only in the sense that the Shield is also used by PvP bunker guards: Hardly and generally not the best thing to use.
“Come on, hit me!”
cooldown way to long….. sometimes works more like a self trap than anything
else, some skills will hit target inside due mellee being range, some classes can have long stability duration, low healing, low regen, and the cooldown is an insult.
i dont understand why Anet is ignoring this much the class.
1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.
(edited by Aeolus.3615)
Been saying it since beta.
CD should be 1/2 lower and radius higher.
Consecrations are the best group utilities the guardian has with the exception of sanctuary. purging flames is the best condition removal removing 3 conditions from the whole party while burning enemies and creating a firefield on a 28 sec cooldown. wall of reflection doesn’t need an explanation. and hallowed ground is the longest lasting firefield and group stability.
I personally still use Sanctuary in pvp, it’s the only mode where it really shines. It’s an incredible skill when used correctly. However, there are some slight tweaks I’d like to see with it.
It should be slightly larger. As of right now, players can get as close to the bubble and still hit you with melee attacks, this shouldn’t happen.
AoE and ground skills still can damage you. Players just spam AoE near you, and you can take a lot of damage from this. The only way players should be able to attack you, is if they have stab and come in the Sanctuary. Other than that, you shouldn’t be able to take damage.
Guardian WvW Guide!
Heavens Rage
Heavens Rage
Sanctuary’s actually the best Consecration (still) for PvP in a tanky build. It extends our point presence better than any other skill we have (including our elite). The only two things I’d like to see changed is its radius, from 120 to 180, and for poison grenades and choking gas to be blockable. Otherwise I think the skill is perfectly fine as it is – high cooldown but insanely versatile in how it can be used. Counterplay is possible, but that’s fine considering its power level.
(edited by cymerdown.4103)
Sanctuary’s actually the best Consecration (still) for PvP in a tanky build. It extends our point presence better than any other skill we have (including our elite).
People say this, yet when actually using the skill (and staying in the dome, otherwise it’s just an extra Ring of Warding) it hardly has any effect. It’s too small and too easy to play around. It’s only effective against stupid players.
“Come on, hit me!”
Sanctuary’s actually the best Consecration (still) for PvP in a tanky build. It extends our point presence better than any other skill we have (including our elite).
People say this, yet when actually using the skill (and staying in the dome, otherwise it’s just an extra Ring of Warding) it hardly has any effect. It’s too small and too easy to play around.* It’s only effective against stupid players*.
This is sad, but its so true…
1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.
The cooldown is too high for me to ever find a reason to want it on my bar.
It’s not true, though. If you play with it for a long time, you would see how powerful it can be, again because of its versatility. Even against the best players in the game, it’s had many uses. People don’t run around with perma-Stab, if you know they’re out you can drop it right on their head for an AoE CC at a critical moment. If you’re running through a chokepoint and you know the guy behind you doesn’t have any ports or stab available, you can block them off from crossing that point of the map for a full 8 seconds, sometimes that’s huge. Sometimes what you really need is the projectile defense to get off a team res. Or sometimes an enemy downstate body throws interrupts with a projectile, so you lay it down right on them to secure the stomp if your stability’s down. At times, all you need is a single tick more to decap or full cap, so you wait till the enemy dodges and you cast Sanct so that it finishes as their dodge ends, and they get tossed off the point for that moment. Other times you get crashed by 2-3 players at once and need to last a few extra seconds while your teammates are finishing rotating to you, and sanct buys you that extra time. Teammate’s getting trained? Drop a Sanct for them and then Empower + Orb of Light + pop it on them for a bunch of healing. I’ve played Guardian for over a year and a half at a high level and I can assure you that Sanctuary is as good as I’m saying, there’s a reason the meta Virtues bunker build had it locked in for all this time.
Also keep in mind, if you’re facing a single enemy with no stab, you don’t want to stand in the middle of the Sanctuary. You stand just inside the back edge of it on the opposite side from them, out of melee range and usually protected from any PBAoEs they can cast (like nades at their feet).
(edited by cymerdown.4103)
Sanctuary is ridiculous, shouldh have 15s duration and a 90s cooldown untraited. Should heal up the party about 50% and reflect all projectiles, make it Elite. Oh I would love something like this.
‘would have/would’ve been’ —> correct
‘would of been’ —> wrong
‘would of been’ —> wrong
It’s not true, though. If you play with it for a long time, you would see how powerful it can be, again because of its versatility. Even against the best players in the game, it’s had many uses. People don’t run around with perma-Stab, if you know they’re out you can drop it right on their head for an AoE CC at a critical moment. If you’re running through a chokepoint(…).
In theory yes and iagree with you but in the practice not.
Even SoA is better against nades and ranger spikes, Sanctuary on choke point to CC that only stop bad players where 90% (random value) is clever enaugh to use stability or use leap to target, also CC and condis go trough sanctuary, any kind of knockback will put you out of it, or will work not matter side player is, by the point u need to use stability for not get pushed outside your protected area skill becomes useless and a burden and a CC with 90’s cooldown, something is fishy with this class if players have been using it like this becouse only worked in the first month when many were brainless to counter it.
Edit, also combat mobility for the dome size is way to small some melee skill will hit dont need stability.
1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.
(edited by Aeolus.3615)
It’s not true, though. If you play with it for a long time, you would see how powerful it can be, again because of its versatility. Even against the best players in the game, it’s had many uses. People don’t run around with perma-Stab, if you know they’re out you can drop it right on their head for an AoE CC at a critical moment. If you’re running through a chokepoint(…).
In theory yes and iagree with you but in the practice not.
Even SoA is better against nades and ranger spikes, Sanctuary on choke point to CC that only stop bad players where 90% (random value) is clever enaugh to use stability or use leap to target, also CC and condis go trough sanctuary, any kind of knockback will put you out of it, or will work not matter side player is, by the point u need to use stability for not get pushed outside your protected area skill becomes useless and a burden and a CC with 90’s cooldown, something is fishy with this class if players have been using it like this becouse only worked in the first month when many were brainless to counter it.Edit, also combat mobility for the dome size is way to small some melee skill will hit dont need stability.
This ^.
Guardian has a decent number of skills (both weapon & utility) that are badly designed and more then a few traits that suck (20+ by my last count).
But as far as good ideas that are horribly implemented go sanctuary takes the cake.
It’s not true, though. If you play with it for a long time, you would see how powerful it can be, again because of its versatility.
Please continue to assume I give my opinion on things without actually trying them.
Sanctuary has niche uses. This is true of every skill. Signet of Mercy has niche uses. Niche uses don’t justify a spot on my bar, unless the skill is called Wall of Reflection (and I’d hardly call that niche, given the meta and our role in it).
“Come on, hit me!”
I agree with Ken on this one, his argument is sound, and I know he plays bunker Guard at a high level, more so then everyone in this thread. However, there is one thing we all agree on, the radius should be larger.
Guardian WvW Guide!
Heavens Rage
Heavens Rage
been usign sactuary against the cheap meta builds and meta blobs, i cant even cast sanctuary sometimes due the skill cast time, need to start cleaning stacks of conditions every 2 or 3 seconds or when sanctuary is casted the number of red circles and the seconds of fear i get plus torment its a self suicide, also santuary wont work becouse classes with alot of stability.
SoA(or any other spirit weapon) is also a mistake to bring in bar since will be 1hit ko.
Well making.. a cheap condi class is also out of question.
What i see here is that Anet tryed to balance colldowns over classes to be similiar yet they do not work anymore becouse how game fight (un)balance has changed over time.
1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.
(edited by Aeolus.3615)
What i see here is that Anet tryed to balance colldowns over classes to be similiar yet they do not work anymore becouse how game fight (un)balance has changed over time.
This is the problem that has been plaguing the guardian class all along. The meta of today is much, much different from what it was 2 years ago, yet the guardian as a class has remained largely unchanged. We’ve received very few major skill changes and even fewer trait reworks (with most of the latter being absolute jokes, i.e. Kindled Zeal).
Guardian was a well-balanced class at launch. At this point, it’s become very stagnant and is in great need of some TLC from the balance team.
Ok so Sanctuary(and consecrations in general) see play in sPvP, kinda cool. I guess i will just relegate them to the useless in WvW pile apart from WoR which is actually decent.
I guess if you had a burning build PF could be ok in duels in OS or something.
Chorazin
[lion]~ riperonis
[tRex]
[lion]~ riperonis
[tRex]