Guild Wars 2

There goes my staffless perma swiftness wvw build.
Look at the bright side, if Anet realizes this was uncalled for, they will revert the changes (in 3 months).

Edit: If not changed in DubbaDub, I reserve my right to withdraw my QQ

Donjo.9042”

Given that sPvP involves a lot of 1v1 fights, this nerf makes sense. In PvE and WvWvW, the Guardian is far more likely to have allies around him, and thus far more likely to actually acquire conditions due to this shout.

I was questioning this very point in other threads. Other players insist on telling Guardians who want to 1v1 to “reroll”. Here you are saying it’s precisely this 1v1 situation that crops up so often that causes this nerf, yet I’m being told to reroll for 1v1.

well i am playing now sword/shield, scepter/focus- best combo now because of this nerfs
with 20-30-10-0-10 focused on spirit weapons, in most situations i win, but if you choose gs and hammer combos you will probably lose now.

ImariKurumi.5761:

Brutaly.6257:

@Evilcherry and Lumines
You guys are spot on.

If the groupsupport side (removal of conditions) isnt the mainusage something is very wrong indeed in a skill thats supposed to be supportive.

What it could/should do is lower the cd to 30s, remove all conditions on the team and convert them into two random boons per teammate and fury/quickness for the guardian.

During beta and bwe there were a lot of requests for an offensive shout and SY was (perhaps) arenanets answer but i think the above is a much better solution.

Haha, you’re partially admitting the nerf was unwarranted, or in polite terms, went overboard…

Nope, then you need to read again, i find the entire shout to be bad in its core, the nerf is fine in all aspects but i wouldnt mind if the shout it self did something completely different.

Reading comprehension isnt this forums forte….

Okay. This skill was nerfed in PvP. From what it seems, it was only nerfed in sPvP, not WvWvW.

Let’s try to examine why.

The effect of Save Yourselves is to take all of the conditions of your nearby allies and bring them to you. To compensate, you’re booned to high heaven. Always remember the the skill does both of these things.

In sPvP, this has been nerfed because it was too powerful in a 1v1 situation. I do not think that retaliation was the reason for this nerf. When a Guardian is alone, this skill is equivalent to an “I Win” button since there are no allies to cure the conditions of. Given that sPvP involves a lot of 1v1 fights, this nerf makes sense. In PvE and WvWvW, the Guardian is far more likely to have allies around him, and thus far more likely to actually acquire conditions due to this shout. Not changing the skill makes sense here because being booned to high heaven is truly being compensated by the conditions that were just acquired. Of course, a Guardian could still play alone in PvE, but it seems that ANet has chosen not to nerf a skill because of a way that a player can choose to play but rather because of a balancing issue.

In conclusion, I can see how this was unbalanced, and I’m glad that skill separation between PvE and PvP was reintroduced to address it.

Excellent post and as a tpvp player i fully agree, its beyond me that people cant see this but its probabaly since they dont actively do spvp or tpvp or are casuals.

Donjo.9042”

Donjo.9042”

Given that sPvP involves a lot of 1v1 fights, this nerf makes sense. In PvE and WvWvW, the Guardian is far more likely to have allies around him, and thus far more likely to actually acquire conditions due to this shout.

I was questioning this very point in other threads. Other players insist on telling Guardians who want to 1v1 to “reroll”. Here you are saying it’s precisely this 1v1 situation that crops up so often that causes this nerf, yet I’m being told to reroll for 1v1.

The problem is that you dont read and understand what they are trying to tell you and just twist into your own agenda.

Fabsm didnt say guardians cant do one on one, he infact said the opposite but you didnt understand it and then he urged you to reroll since you seem to have issues understanding the entire class tbh.

No. I see other Guardians play and am skeptical of your claims. That’s it. I know the range of classes and there is a reason sPvP i went against a team of 15 all but 1 composed of thieves. While anet do next to nothing about it, they pore over Guardian abilities with an almost peevish degree of interest.

Once again you twist words or dont respond at all, i asked you questions regarding supportbuilds in an attempt to dispute one of your false claims and you dont answer and here you first make a claim by twisting an other persons words to fit your agenda and when i confront you in that persons defense you try to make it personal by miscrediting my claims.

Im done with you, you are a troll sir and as such you have gotten way to much attention all ready.

Brutaly.6257:

ImariKurumi.5761:

Brutaly.6257:

@Evilcherry and Lumines
You guys are spot on.

If the groupsupport side (removal of conditions) isnt the mainusage something is very wrong indeed in a skill thats supposed to be supportive.

What it could/should do is lower the cd to 30s, remove all conditions on the team and convert them into two random boons per teammate and fury/quickness for the guardian.

During beta and bwe there were a lot of requests for an offensive shout and SY was (perhaps) arenanets answer but i think the above is a much better solution.

Haha, you’re partially admitting the nerf was unwarranted, or in polite terms, went overboard…

Nope, then you need to read again, i find the entire shout to be bad in its core, the nerf is fine in all aspects but i wouldnt mind if the shout it self did something completely different.

Reading comprehension isnt this forums forte….

Okay. This skill was nerfed in PvP. From what it seems, it was only nerfed in sPvP, not WvWvW.

Let’s try to examine why.

The effect of Save Yourselves is to take all of the conditions of your nearby allies and bring them to you. To compensate, you’re booned to high heaven. Always remember the the skill does both of these things.

In sPvP, this has been nerfed because it was too powerful in a 1v1 situation. I do not think that retaliation was the reason for this nerf. When a Guardian is alone, this skill is equivalent to an “I Win” button since there are no allies to cure the conditions of. Given that sPvP involves a lot of 1v1 fights, this nerf makes sense. In PvE and WvWvW, the Guardian is far more likely to have allies around him, and thus far more likely to actually acquire conditions due to this shout. Not changing the skill makes sense here because being booned to high heaven is truly being compensated by the conditions that were just acquired. Of course, a Guardian could still play alone in PvE, but it seems that ANet has chosen not to nerf a skill because of a way that a player can choose to play but rather because of a balancing issue.

In conclusion, I can see how this was unbalanced, and I’m glad that skill separation between PvE and PvP was reintroduced to address it.

Excellent post and as a tpvp player i fully agree, its beyond me that people cant see this but its probabaly since they dont actively do spvp or tpvp or are casuals.

Donjo.9042”

Donjo.9042”

Given that sPvP involves a lot of 1v1 fights, this nerf makes sense. In PvE and WvWvW, the Guardian is far more likely to have allies around him, and thus far more likely to actually acquire conditions due to this shout.

I was questioning this very point in other threads. Other players insist on telling Guardians who want to 1v1 to “reroll”. Here you are saying it’s precisely this 1v1 situation that crops up so often that causes this nerf, yet I’m being told to reroll for 1v1.

The problem is that you dont read and understand what they are trying to tell you and just twist into your own agenda.

Fabsm didnt say guardians cant do one on one, he infact said the opposite but you didnt understand it and then he urged you to reroll since you seem to have issues understanding the entire class tbh.

I agree too. I don’t like so much Guardians “wannabe warriors” (that complains once their anomaly is partially fixed). Furthermore in this kittening game (sPVP/tPVP side) if u find a class so OP the only thing to do is to push the “Create Character Button” → “Choose THAT Class” and play it, then repost your opinions. No whine should be allowed for OP classes as long as none limit you from playing them (and none does in sPVP/tPVP, you begin capped). However thief and mesmers have annoying mechanics that IMHO damage the experience in WvW, nothing tragic but quite annoying in long term.

Please STAHP with this unconditioned complains.

SimoxTav.5189:

Said from a friend that has a guardian: “every 48 secs we were invincible war machines, even without mates around”. Sounds quite reasonable a nerf in that direction IMHO. So please stop complaining, none likes to be nerfed but if u’re OP then it’s called BALANCE

Really? Did your theoretical friend claim SY made him invincible and this justifies “BALANCE” in your world? Well I see no need to argue this so I’ll just bring this down to your level. My theoretical friend claims SY doesn’t make him invincible so there was no need for BALANCE.

Lumines.3916:

Save Yourselves on the other hand wasn’t even used by most people for its intended purposes, to rip everything off your allies and use your own body as a vessel to tank/remove them.

The intended purpose you say? Gotta love that god complex. Anyone playing differently from your point of view clearly has it wrong.

Ynna.8769:

The Shout was never used for the “intended” purpose. Guardian’s Shouts are defensive and are used for upping the survivability of the team, not for becoming an offensive powerhouse every minute.

Hey look another dev, sure is alot of them in this thread. I seriously love how you kids keep throwing around the word intended as if you created the class. Go on, explain to me why I was playing the class wrong and how YOU believe it should be played. After all, I’m only playing this game for your benefit.

wolfie.7296:

Donjo.9042”

Given that sPvP involves a lot of 1v1 fights, this nerf makes sense. In PvE and WvWvW, the Guardian is far more likely to have allies around him, and thus far more likely to actually acquire conditions due to this shout.

I was questioning this very point in other threads. Other players insist on telling Guardians who want to 1v1 to “reroll”. Here you are saying it’s precisely this 1v1 situation that crops up so often that causes this nerf, yet I’m being told to reroll for 1v1.

I’ll try to answer this.

When you go to a profession board – ANY profession board, after a nerf takes place, several casual players will complain about those nerfs and threaten they’ll reroll or advice others to reroll. It’s something people say when they’re hot-heated, annoyed that their favourite skills will no longer be used the way they were using them, which we can understand why. It does not means, however, that they are right.

“Save Yourselves!” is a skill about saving other allies, as the name outright tells. It was once called Martyr, because you’re being the victim for the good of others. However, to compensate for being too harsh on you, and to make it not useless when playing solo, it gives you a lot of boons. In a way, 5s retaliation + protection + regeneration + lots of stuff will still be excellent at turning the tides of battle in your favor, because it does instantly make you take too little damage and deal back too much damage. It’s still a strong solo skill. In normal 1vs1 pvp, if that’s already strong as it is, 10s basically made it a win button. For 10s seconds the target would kill themselves while you would take almost no damage. That was downright overpowered. You can still time this skill to completely destroy a thief, a warrior or anything that bursts you down in a few seconds, so it’s still good even at what isn’t its main purpose.

Feni.4306:

SimoxTav.5189:

Said from a friend that has a guardian: “every 48 secs we were invincible war machines, even without mates around”. Sounds quite reasonable a nerf in that direction IMHO. So please stop complaining, none likes to be nerfed but if u’re OP then it’s called BALANCE

Really? Did your theoretical friend claim SY made him invincible and this justifies “BALANCE” in your world? Well I see no need to argue this so I’ll just bring this down to your level. My theoretical friend claims SY doesn’t make him invincible so there was no need for BALANCE.

Lumines.3916:

Save Yourselves on the other hand wasn’t even used by most people for its intended purposes, to rip everything off your allies and use your own body as a vessel to tank/remove them.

The intended purpose you say? Gotta love that god complex. Anyone playing differently from your point of view clearly has it wrong.

Ynna.8769:

The Shout was never used for the “intended” purpose. Guardian’s Shouts are defensive and are used for upping the survivability of the team, not for becoming an offensive powerhouse every minute.

Hey look another dev, sure is alot of them in this thread. I seriously love how you kids keep throwing around the word intended as if you created the class. Go on, explain to me why I was playing the class wrong and how YOU believe it should be played. After all, I’m only playing this game for your benefit.

“Save Yourselves!”
Draw conditions from nearby allies to yourself. Gain multiple boons for a short duration.

Let’s make it: No condition from allies to be catched? NO BOONS then (leaving it 10s, really). I would ROTFL about your next whine.

EDIT: Oh and i have a guardian too, never used that shout due its high CD, simply useless in the majority of the situations. Oh, but wait you were one of those “BUBBLEDIN” in WoW (and before you reply, I had a PLD in WoW too as my main class for 5years), so your argument sounds like another whine

Random nerfs. Great. My spec was built entirely on the boons do more damage buff in virtues. Now I can’t play gg, arenanet. You won.

I checked last night in WvW and it’s still 10s, is tooltip wrong? Or is the nerf only for sPvP?

Feni.4306:

Hey look another dev, sure is a lot of them in this thread. I seriously love how you kids keep throwing around the word intended as if you created the class. Go on, explain to me why I was playing the class wrong and how YOU believe it should be played. After all, I’m only playing this game for your benefit.

I don’t know the exact intent behind every skill, nor do I claim to. It’s why I put “intent” between quotation marks, because it wasn’t the perfect word.
That being said, I suspect I’m right about the intent of “Save Yourselves!”. All Guardian Shouts are defensive in nature, so it’s not unassailable that this is also the case for “Save Yourselves!”. If people are using a skill that was designed (which I know, because more than any Shout, “Save Yourselves!” is group focused) around group support is used more often as an offensive tool, something went wrong.

Svarty.8019:

Random nerfs. Great. My spec was built entirely on the boons do more damage buff in virtues. Now I can’t play gg, arenanet. You won.

Basically you have a build thats ignorable when its on cd and the 17 sec boon duration has run out.

In short a retaliation build that requires about zero skill and positioning and very little effort from you as a player.

Well then the nerf is more then justified since it competitive gameplay we are talking about and those builds has to go if e-sport in any way or form should be an option for this game.

Considering the great numbers of posts you made declaring how bad the guardians is i now understand your choice of build.

If this breaks your build it just shows that the skill itself allowed for totaly worthless builds to be valid thru a truly overpowered skill.

Kazak.8459:

I checked last night in WvW and it’s still 10s, is tooltip wrong? Or is the nerf only for sPvP?

Its only for spvp and tpvp.

Funny to see people posting reply about quitting their guardian because ONE of their skill got his duration reduced.

It’s even more funny, when they play a class that is considered in the top tier in PVP/WVW. If I play a class and everyone say I’m OP, I know a nerf will happens. Soon or later, it’s gonna happen. It’s like that in every MMOrpg.

Don’t quit the game, just try another class. That’s how you realize : “ kitten my guardian wasn’t too bad finally. It was actually pretty good”.

I had the same reaction. I was having fun on my engi, but I thought they were lacking in some aspect. Then I leveled a Necro, and I can tell you that I realized how good and versatile was the engi. I didn’t know the meaning of “bugs” or “bad traits” before playing Necro.

TL;DR : Happens to top tier class in MMORPG, don’t act like it’s the end of the world. Try another class to open your eyes!

P.S : I know Mesmer didn’t get the nerf bat, but they will eventually. Just give Anet some time.

Question, was the heal on it kept at the same level in PVP? – what i mean is, in PvE mine will do 1800+ over the 10 seconds, has that to been halfed to 900 over 5 seconds?.

If it has been halfed, surely that part at least should have remained the same.

Ynna.8769:

I don’t know the exact intent behind every skill, nor do I claim to. It’s why I put “intent” between quotation marks, because it wasn’t the perfect word.
That being said, I suspect I’m right about the intent of “Save Yourselves!”. All Guardian Shouts are defensive in nature, so it’s not unassailable that this is also the case for “Save Yourselves!”. If people are using a skill that was designed (which I know, because more than any Shout, “Save Yourselves!” is group focused) around group support is used more often as an offensive tool, something went wrong.

This is a preposterous statement for several reasons. Firstly, you claim to know the intent behind the Shouts despite not claiming to know the intent behind every skill. Frankly, the post smacks of hypocrisy before you even get to the point.

Secondly, you state that Shouts are defensive in nature. I disagree. It’s wholly subjective and basically, …your opinion. Ignoring the effects of the skills for a moment, Hold(ing) the Line or Stand(ing) Your Ground are hardly defensive things. They are offensive, allowing someone to remain the combat (hurting enemies) for longer.

Thirdly, if Arenanet intend something, they should explicitly state it. Frankly, putting the trait Power of the Virtuous in the game seems to be encouraging people to spec for shouts in an offensive way. They even have Might, Fury and Retaliation on boons – hardly defensive at all.

Svarty.8019:

This is a preposterous statement for several reasons. Firstly, you claim to know the intent behind the Shouts despite not claiming to know the intent behind every skill. Frankly, the post smacks of hypocrisy before you even get to the point.

Secondly, you state that Shouts are defensive in nature. I disagree. It’s wholly subjective and basically, …your opinion. Ignoring the effects of the skills for a moment, Hold(ing) the Line or Stand(ing) Your Ground are hardly defensive things. They are offensive, allowing someone to remain the combat (hurting enemies) for longer.

1. I cannot know the intent, but I can guess or speculate about it. It’s not that hard. Unless Arenanet tells me what the intent is, everything I say is conjecture. That means that I can make an educated guess.
2. Holding the Line is pretty much making sure the enemy doesn’t get through and so is Standing Your Ground. The images I associate with those phrases are not offensive. They are groups of soldiers making sure the castle doesn’t fall, or making sure the enemy will not pass and burn their crops. Allowing someone to stay in combat longer is defensive.

I can’t help but wonder why it wasn’t nerfed in PvE as well.

What do Arenanet intend? What is this great mysterious “Indended” that we all must kowtow to, lest we receive another nerf? Is it sinful to even think about asking such questions? Will we all be punished in the afterlife?

Please can we have abilities that don’t change depending on which side of a line we stand on?

I can’t believe people didn’t see this coming, oh well. If players are going to get this shook up over changes they should probably take some time off and come back after the developers have finished balancing the mechanics of every profession.

Or they could just not take things so seriously, it is only a game after all.

So I use the skill save yourself and now have 5 seconds to target someone and get approximately how many attacks in on said target with buffs?

nope you get into the thick of things and are already striking the enemy then use save yourselves for maximum effect. You know you can shout while using weapon skills right?

I can understand a lot of the QQ going on in here.
I will have to agree that most guardians didn’t use this skill to strip any conditions from allies. They more or less used it as their only soruce for fury and such.

As it stands right now, it is pretty much useless. Especially if you compare it to “For great justice!”. Where is the justice here?

1. Lower the CD to at least 35 seconds
2. Change the boon-gain to any effect that scales with conditions being drawn.
3. Stomp this skill and create something new and original.
4. ??!
5. profit.

MastaNeenja.1537:

nope you get into the thick of things and are already striking the enemy then use save yourselves for maximum effect. You know you can shout while using weapon skills right?

5 seconds still….

Khellendros.5189:

MastaNeenja.1537:

nope you get into the thick of things and are already striking the enemy then use save yourselves for maximum effect. You know you can shout while using weapon skills right?

5 seconds still….

And that is about 10-15k damage.
its exactly 2 mighty blows and one chain on the hammer. But once again its a shout and as all shouts its ment, hence the area of effect, to help out the team.

Unfortunately its a left over from the staff (hence i also “know” its made to support the team primarily with conditionremovers) and the supportmechanic isnt that attractive for some.

It is just INCREDIBLE how NO MATTER what Anet nerfs from anyclass for that matter. they will always be idiots who will defend the nerf and say “Oh that nerf was long coming” yeah except the fact there there was only ONE dumb thread idiot qqer from around 500 guardian qq threads regarding SY.

The truth is that NO ONE here, I repeat.. NO ONE! NOT YOU who are reading this thinking of your self like a pro pvper. NO ONE knows why A Net nerfs the things they do.

They have a wall with a massive Theory crafting going on where they compare SY skill against all other classes on hundreds of tpvp senarios and then figure out the change was needed like kids playing around with matches who dont know what they are doing.

Put that on your pipe and smoke it. smoke all of it!

Wow you are mad man :P

Calm down, it’s only a single nerf on a single ability, it will happen again and again in very MMO.

Kardiamond.6952:

Wow you are mad man :P

Calm down, it’s only a single nerf on a single ability, it will happen again and again in very MMO.

Just having a reasonable discussion about this. I still believe it was a bit extreme, like most nerfs to this classes abilities. This isn’t some minor decrease, a 50% reduction in effectiveness is quite the nerf and I honestly haven’t encountered many people who thought it was op to begin with.

Every other class complain about us, because every other class is a freaking warrior.

As a Guardian who has been played more than 200 sPvP matches… yes, this nerf has needed. All buffs for 10 seconds was pretty much, a “demigod” mode activated for Guardians: -33% reduction of all incoming damage, 20% more critical chance, 1,7k+ healing per 10 seconds, 33% of all incoming damage is sent back to the attacker and so on. In. 10. Seconds.

All I can say Is: Gg, and keep up the good work, ANet. But there’s still alot of tweaking to do.

You realize that with a simple nullfield/corrupt boons, you’re essentially screwed? There’s a few counters to this to make your day go from awesome to a sudden,“oh crap i’m dead.”

And so? U want to be OP against every class? Don’t be silly, there will ALWAYS BE classes that are the nemesis of yours, whatever class you play. That’s not because “that class can counter this” that the balance is planned (at least not as a source for a nerf/buff, at most to give everyone the possibility to survive and deal damage). Otherwise pls, play a FPS with a single gun, in a single plain without walls map in LAN and find a new source of whine against your opponent. If u want to be constructive, instead, complain about the scepter speed increase on mesmer that isn’t available for guardians, that, in fact, looks quite annoying.

Donjo.9042:

Okay. This skill was nerfed in PvP. From what it seems, it was only nerfed in sPvP, not WvWvW.

Let’s try to examine why.

The effect of Save Yourselves is to take all of the conditions of your nearby allies and bring them to you. To compensate, you’re booned to high heaven. Always remember the the skill does both of these things.

In sPvP, this has been nerfed because it was too powerful in a 1v1 situation. I do not think that retaliation was the reason for this nerf. When a Guardian is alone, this skill is equivalent to an “I Win” button since there are no allies to cure the conditions of. Given that sPvP involves a lot of 1v1 fights, this nerf makes sense. In PvE and WvWvW, the Guardian is far more likely to have allies around him, and thus far more likely to actually acquire conditions due to this shout. Not changing the skill makes sense here because being booned to high heaven is truly being compensated by the conditions that were just acquired. Of course, a Guardian could still play alone in PvE, but it seems that ANet has chosen not to nerf a skill because of a way that a player can choose to play but rather because of a balancing issue.

In conclusion, I can see how this was unbalanced, and I’m glad that skill separation between PvE and PvP was reintroduced to address it.

Thank you for understanding logic.

Everyone says it was op (including Anet) seems to conveniently ignore that one dodge roll and you are out of range. Plus CC and that’s most of it gone. Now on 5 seconds it can be wiped out. Plus that guy saying 1.7k heal/10seconds??? You think that is good when people hit for >1000 easily. In fact they can do over 10000+ in the same time.

Seriously.. i play a mesmer, and 5 seconds is the upper bound for most of my abilities like this.
People whine too much. “omg i’m going to quit, my friends are joining me” … please, go play halo 4 where you’ll get your “instant gratification”. The rest of us will be patient and enjoy the game.

Long live my guardian

It was too strong to begin with. The value is yet again arbitrary but it’s the thought that counts

Plenty of other classes that can be said to be too strong in some way or another and some admit it openly with nothing done. Line of Warding was considered op over 2 second kills…which is hilarious imagine the extreme whining that brought on that change…also if you can dodge 100blades then you should be able to dodge/avoid someone with a few boons of SY much more easily since you have more time to react… Plus the Line of Warding being targeted for nerfs must have been super whining by other classes who fear and get buthurt by the tamest non-damaging abilities. Which are now gone due to it.

what’s funny is this is straight after the announcement about not nerfing and taking a hands off approach, which came immediately after nerfing Line of Warding.

The change to Line of Warding was to bring the skill in line with the tooltip. It was never intended to last that long.

Nerfing Line of Warding was silly. That’s one thing i don’t understand.

Nerfing Save Yourselves is justifiable under the assumption that it was used the wrong way: as a “God Mode” in sPvP where there aren’t usually any conditions to draw on you.

If you have an Invulnerable/“I win” ability, let’s be assured it will be nerfed when opposite players notice that. It happens in every MMO. Gw2 is no exception.

SY is a skill with a really bad concept.
Something like:
2 random boons for every condition you take from ally, with duration based on the condition duration (max 10 sec) can fit the basic idea of this skill.

You Guardians are in dire need of a lot more nerfs than that so stop whining. I know you all like to play your overpowered profession and faceroll SPvP but that’s too bad. You need to be nerfed. The only class I’ve seen that can take out a good Guardian 1v1 is a boon removal Necromancer.

Stop complaining. Guardian is OP.

Ruufio.1496:

You Guardians are in dire need of a lot more nerfs than that so stop whining. I know you all like to play your overpowered profession and faceroll SPvP but that’s too bad. You need to be nerfed. The only class I’ve seen that can take out a good Guardian 1v1 is a boon removal Necromancer.

Stop complaining. Guardian is OP.

Amen.

That’s exactly what happens to me (and i really hate necromancers!).

Ruufio.1496:

You Guardians are in dire need of a lot more nerfs than that so stop whining. I know you all like to play your overpowered profession and faceroll SPvP but that’s too bad. You need to be nerfed. The only class I’ve seen that can take out a good Guardian 1v1 is a boon removal Necromancer.

Stop complaining. Guardian is OP.

what guardian build in particular did you ever play a guardian? why don’t you go play a guardian in pvp and see how many theifs mesmer engineers will kill you THEN come back and here and tell how op it is.

tom.7468:

Ruufio.1496:

You Guardians are in dire need of a lot more nerfs than that so stop whining. I know you all like to play your overpowered profession and faceroll SPvP but that’s too bad. You need to be nerfed. The only class I’ve seen that can take out a good Guardian 1v1 is a boon removal Necromancer.

Stop complaining. Guardian is OP.

what guardian build in particular did you ever play a guardian? why don’t you go play a guardian in pvp and see how many theifs mesmer engineers will kill you THEN come back and here and tell how op it is.

Thieves, Guardians and Mesmers are definitely the best professions at the moment to play pvp with, as shown by the number of players who pick them up, and by the amount of nerfs targetting those three.

This trio will see more nerfs in the future, I don’t doubt it, and it’s fun to see how their fans (especially for guardian and for thief) react to each nerf they get. You would think the world is coming at an end, the sky is falling, the profession is being ruined. But in reality, only a selected few (abused) skills get targetted each per patch, and the trio still remains on the stronger side of the spectrum. Not that I would want the devs to rush in, mind you. I think balance should be slow and wise, because the weaker builds are also getting buffs very slowly, and there’ll be a time where elementalists, necromancers and rangers, and guardians, thieves and mesmers, will all be at an equal level to each other.

ok i know how to play guardian but if this is the case that theif,guardian,mesmer is stronger than the others then why not just buff them to make them equally useful?? instead of making those 3 less fun. i also don’t like how people categorize it as tier 1,2,3 all the classes is tier 1 ok tier means upgraded units there is no such thing on classes.

tom.7468:

ok i know how to play guardian but if this is the case that theif,guardian,mesmer is stronger than the others then why not just buff them to make them equally useful?? instead of making those 3 less fun. i also don’t like how people categorize it as tier 1,2,3 all the classes is tier 1 ok tier means upgraded units there is no such thing on classes.

In a MMO game, it’s best to nerf the few strongest options than buff everything else to their level. Or else, if you keep buffing, buffing, buffing, the game will suffer from powercreep months/ year later, and all professions will one hit or two hit kill others. :P

I don’t think nerfs make the professions less fun, at least good nerfs that target specific skills without making them useless. SY! is still a strong pvp skill, greatsword is still great for breezing through pve and decent for pvp, etc. Unless fun for some players means easy, unfair wins over other players. Retaliation stacking and SY! did lead to easy wins.

That being said, the weaker professions are getting slowly buffed too. Elementalist was buffed this time (finally!), necromancers have been previously, rangers were supposed to get buffs to their terrible utilities but those changes haven’t been in time for the patch. Even “mid-tier” professions like engineers and warriors, and even the thief, guardian and mesmer, have gotten some buffs to weaker skills, so obviously, it’s not all about nerfing either. It’s just not a good idea to buff everything.

Why is it that i fight against such good players on elementists, necros.engies, rangers even wich can keep me snared and CCed almost the whole fight and they all can kill me very well? guardians do not have that op condition removal and heres a tip: get all the stunn,daze,fear,blind or better even imobilize and cycle that on a guardian. learn to switch weapons when fitghing because my warrior and ranger have been killing a lot of guardians just by cycling my weapons and abilities every 9 seconds. plus guardians have no escape button while on the warrior or ranger i can escape much easier if i do get in trouble.

To sum things up i agree with the SY nerf if it had reduced the cooldown on it to 35sec traited because like this i just got another abilitie that i will not use at all. seems like ANET will only be happy when we get so nerfed that we wont be able to hold our own and not even be viable as dps while every other class in game is!

This nerf doesn’t even do anything, so it’s fine to me.

Being unable to knock down friendly npcs anymore removes the core ability of my guardian tho.