Guild Wars 2

I abandoned this couple last year and moved on to another build that better suited for my play style. I did not pay attention to this matter back then. Now that I do small roaming with 4 other party members, I would think PoV would be very helpful since conditions tend to hurt small group more than a zerg.

According to wiki, “Save Yourself!” absorbs the conditions from allies to you, then PoV triggers after it. That means PoV and Soldier runes have no effects on allies if you use “Save Yourself!”. Is this correct? I kinda don’t want to believe this since it seems really lame. I would think that PoV and Soldier Runes would help reduce the amount of conditions you absorb, making “SY!” less dangerous. At least give allies the converted boons.

I can’t test/observe this tonight since guildmates already went to bed.

Seriously… I feel the more I learn about GW2 mechanics, the more likely I am to get disappointed. Hopefully the next balance patch will make me feel better about this game.

FAQ Question 21 should answer that.

Thanks, Tarsius.

Q21 If I have Pure of Voice traited with Runes of the Soldier and use “Save Yourselves!” in what order do these remove and convert conditions.

1. “Save Yourselves!” will always trigger first, stripping conditions from Allies in range and stacking them on yourself. Allies will not get the benefit of boon conversion from Pure of Voice.
2. The 6th Soldier Rune will then remove a condition (see note) from yourself and Allies.
3. Finally Pure of Voice which will remove another condition from yourself and allies and grant a corresponding boon to the players that were cured..

Can I ask why you wrote “and allies” (bold-ed)? Wiki mentions that PoV triggers first. If you’re correct, then this disappoints me even more.

Save yourselves would be absurdly overpowered if it stacked with POV. 5 people getting boons immediately and condition clear? At least the necro Well of Power pulses and you have to stand in it.

However, Pure of Voice is a pretty bad trait and needs a buff. The only reason it was popular in the first place is that it removed two conditions and sorta worked. When it got “fixed”, it became the mediocre trait it is now. It doesn’t help that honor 25 is also pretty bad so it’s not like the journey to it is worth it.

I mean think about it. Even if you’re full shout traited, you’re burning all your cooldowns to remove 3 conditions. Every cooldown. That’s pretty awful and it quickly died in PvE. Adding some boons does not cancel it out if you still have confusion or Immobo on you. There’s soldier runes, but they’re irrelevant because they work without POV. Soldier-less POV is bad because a trait that requires a runeset is bad, and Anet should feel bad for making this happen.

But it’s taken by many outside of PvE because the only other good choice is Absolute Resolution and going down that line you can also take the somewhat acceptable Purging Flames for good condition removal if you do it in conjunction with Renewed Focus. But it’s pretty static and you have to make concessions elsewhere (typically greatly reducing your health… Of course most people can’t let go of their AH because zerg hammer trains are best. So that leaves us with 0/0/10/30/30 having great condition removal.

xFireize.6318:

Thanks, Tarsius.

Q21 If I have Pure of Voice traited with Runes of the Soldier and use “Save Yourselves!” in what order do these remove and convert conditions.

1. “Save Yourselves!” will always trigger first, stripping conditions from Allies in range and stacking them on yourself. Allies will not get the benefit of boon conversion from Pure of Voice.
2. The 6th Soldier Rune will then remove a condition (see note) from yourself and Allies.
3. Finally Pure of Voice which will remove another condition from yourself and allies and grant a corresponding boon to the players that were cured..

Can I ask why you wrote “and allies” (bold-ed)? Wiki mentions that PoV triggers first. If you’re correct, then this disappoints me even more.

I refer to the fact that the condition removal/conversion applies to all allies affected by the shout. In anet terminology “Allies” means up to 5 people including yourself who are in range of the skill, in the following priority: Party Member, Party Member Pet, Other Allies, Other Allies’ Pets and NPCs – and where this is no clear priority it’s measure by distance from the centre of the skill area of effect.

ArchonWing.9480:

Save yourselves would be absurdly overpowered if it stacked with POV. 5 people getting boons immediately and condition clear? At least the necro Well of Power pulses and you have to stand in it.

However, Pure of Voice is a pretty bad trait and needs a buff. The only reason it was popular in the first place is that it removed two conditions and sorta worked. When it got “fixed”, it became the mediocre trait it is now. It doesn’t help that honor 25 is also pretty bad so it’s not like the journey to it is worth it.

I mean think about it. Even if you’re full shout traited, you’re burning all your cooldowns to remove 3 conditions. Every cooldown. That’s pretty awful and it quickly died in PvE. Adding some boons does not cancel it out if you still have confusion or Immobo on you. There’s soldier runes, but they’re irrelevant because they work without POV. Soldier-less POV is bad because a trait that requires a runeset is bad, and Anet should feel bad for making this happen.

But it’s taken by many outside of PvE because the only other good choice is Absolute Resolution and going down that line you can also take the somewhat acceptable Purging Flames for good condition removal if you do it in conjunction with Renewed Focus. But it’s pretty static and you have to make concessions elsewhere (typically greatly reducing your health… Of course most people can’t let go of their AH because zerg hammer trains are best. So that leaves us with 0/0/10/30/30 having great condition removal.

I’m not whining that PoV is weak nor asking for a buff.
Let’s not get off topic.

I’m just disappointed that PoV + Soldier Runes are less rewarding for “Save Yourself!”.

How is “5 people getting boons immediately and condition clear” absurdly overpowered? It’s just one extra boon for each ally, every 48s. You can’t even fully control what boon your allies are getting.

The change that I would like to see is on the user, that PoV + Soldier runes would remove 2 conditions from allies before transferring the rest to you, making “SY!” less dangerous. I’m not a big fan of “Save Yourself!”, since in a huge WvW situation it sounds more like “Save Yourself, I’ll Kill Myself!”.

This change is way more significant than “5 people getting boons immediately and condition clear”, and I can understand if some people think it can be overpowered. I’m open to suggestions, but leaving PoV + Soldier runes to have no effects on allies for “SY!” is disappointing.

Tarsius.3170:

xFireize.6318:

Thanks, Tarsius.

Q21 If I have Pure of Voice traited with Runes of the Soldier and use “Save Yourselves!” in what order do these remove and convert conditions.

1. “Save Yourselves!” will always trigger first, stripping conditions from Allies in range and stacking them on yourself. Allies will not get the benefit of boon conversion from Pure of Voice.
2. The 6th Soldier Rune will then remove a condition (see note) from yourself and Allies.
3. Finally Pure of Voice which will remove another condition from yourself and allies and grant a corresponding boon to the players that were cured..

Can I ask why you wrote “and allies” (bold-ed)? Wiki mentions that PoV triggers first. If you’re correct, then this disappoints me even more.

The conditions removal/conversion applies to all allies affected by the shout. In anet terminology “Allies” means up to 5 people including yourself who are in range of the skill, in the following priority: Party Member, Party Member Pet, Other Allies, Other Allies’ Pets and NPCs

I understand that. But in “Save Yourself!” case, these affected allies will not get any further benefits from PoV + Soldier runes. Am I missing something?

xFireize.6318:

Tarsius.3170:

xFireize.6318:

Thanks, Tarsius.

Q21 If I have Pure of Voice traited with Runes of the Soldier and use “Save Yourselves!” in what order do these remove and convert conditions.

1. “Save Yourselves!” will always trigger first, stripping conditions from Allies in range and stacking them on yourself. Allies will not get the benefit of boon conversion from Pure of Voice.
2. The 6th Soldier Rune will then remove a condition (see note) from yourself and Allies.
3. Finally Pure of Voice which will remove another condition from yourself and allies and grant a corresponding boon to the players that were cured..

Can I ask why you wrote “and allies” (bold-ed)? Wiki mentions that PoV triggers first. If you’re correct, then this disappoints me even more.

The conditions removal/conversion applies to all allies affected by the shout. In anet terminology “Allies” means up to 5 people including yourself who are in range of the skill, in the following priority: Party Member, Party Member Pet, Other Allies, Other Allies’ Pets and NPCs

I understand that. But in “Save Yourself!” case, these affected allies will not get any further benefits from PoV + Soldier runes. Am I missing something?

I was trying to highlight the order things occur rather than whether on not players receive any actual benefits ( I guess it could be clearer ) – bear in mind that in a dynamic battlefield people can move in and out of your shout range priority from one skill to the next, as well as have conditions re-applied – in which case you would still see some positive effects from PoV and Soldier runes.

To answer you earlier comment about the wiki saying PoV triggered first – originally the FAQ made the same statement, but someone here spotted that was incorrect which I confirmed through testing in the mists. ( it may have been a stealth change from a patch )

xFireize.6318:

ArchonWing.9480:

Save yourselves would be absurdly overpowered if it stacked with POV. 5 people getting boons immediately and condition clear? At least the necro Well of Power pulses and you have to stand in it.

However, Pure of Voice is a pretty bad trait and needs a buff. The only reason it was popular in the first place is that it removed two conditions and sorta worked. When it got “fixed”, it became the mediocre trait it is now. It doesn’t help that honor 25 is also pretty bad so it’s not like the journey to it is worth it.

I mean think about it. Even if you’re full shout traited, you’re burning all your cooldowns to remove 3 conditions. Every cooldown. That’s pretty awful and it quickly died in PvE. Adding some boons does not cancel it out if you still have confusion or Immobo on you. There’s soldier runes, but they’re irrelevant because they work without POV. Soldier-less POV is bad because a trait that requires a runeset is bad, and Anet should feel bad for making this happen.

But it’s taken by many outside of PvE because the only other good choice is Absolute Resolution and going down that line you can also take the somewhat acceptable Purging Flames for good condition removal if you do it in conjunction with Renewed Focus. But it’s pretty static and you have to make concessions elsewhere (typically greatly reducing your health… Of course most people can’t let go of their AH because zerg hammer trains are best. So that leaves us with 0/0/10/30/30 having great condition removal.

I’m not whining that PoV is weak and I’m not asking for a buff.
Let’s not get off topic.

I’m just disappointed that PoV + Soldier Runes are less rewarding for “Save Yourself!”.

How is “5 people getting boons immediately and condition clear” absurdly overpowered? It’s just one extra boon for each ally, every 48s. You can’t even fully control what boon your allies are getting.

The change that I would like to see is on the user, that PoV + Soldier runes would remove 2 conditions from allies before transferring the rest to you, making “SY!” less dangerous. I’m not a big fan of “Save Yourself!”, since in a huge WvW situation it sounds more like “Save Yourself, I’ll Kill Myself!”.

This change is way more significant than “5 people getting boons immediately and condition clear”, and I can understand if some people think it can be overpowered. I’m open to suggestions, but leaving PoV + Soldier runes to have no effects on allies for “SY!” is disappointing.

Yes, I mistakenly thought that in this scenario that every ally would have all their conditions converted to boons. You can scratch that point.

Though, I never said you were whining. That’s my job, but you are free to restrict the topic to such. I think it’s more of a fundamental design issue, in that I think that PoV is weak and SY is fine.

Tarsius.3170:

xFireize.6318:

Tarsius.3170:

xFireize.6318:

Thanks, Tarsius.

Q21 If I have Pure of Voice traited with Runes of the Soldier and use “Save Yourselves!” in what order do these remove and convert conditions.

1. “Save Yourselves!” will always trigger first, stripping conditions from Allies in range and stacking them on yourself. Allies will not get the benefit of boon conversion from Pure of Voice.
2. The 6th Soldier Rune will then remove a condition (see note) from yourself and Allies.
3. Finally Pure of Voice which will remove another condition from yourself and allies and grant a corresponding boon to the players that were cured..

Can I ask why you wrote “and allies” (bold-ed)? Wiki mentions that PoV triggers first. If you’re correct, then this disappoints me even more.

The conditions removal/conversion applies to all allies affected by the shout. In anet terminology “Allies” means up to 5 people including yourself who are in range of the skill, in the following priority: Party Member, Party Member Pet, Other Allies, Other Allies’ Pets and NPCs

I understand that. But in “Save Yourself!” case, these affected allies will not get any further benefits from PoV + Soldier runes. Am I missing something?

I was trying to highlight the order things occur rather than whether on not players receive any actual benefits ( I guess it could be clearer ) – bear in mind that in a dynamic battlefield people can move in and out of your shout range priority from one skill to the next, as well as have conditions re-applied – in which case you would still see some positive effects from PoV and Soldier runes.

To answer you earlier comment about the wiki saying PoV triggered first – originally the FAQ made the same statement, but someone here spotted that was incorrect which I confirmed through testing in the mists. ( it may have been a stealth change from a patch )

Does that ever happen? Even tho PoV and Soldier runes are triggered after “SY!”, I would think they are still instant. Are you saying it’s possible for my allies get a condition in the moment between “SY!” and PoV + Soldier runes?

This is all bad news to me, but I appreciate the clarifications.

ArchonWing.9480:

Yes, I mistakenly thought that in this scenario that every ally would have all their conditions converted to boons. You can scratch that point.

Though, I never said you were whining. That’s my job, but you are free to restrict the topic to such. I think it’s more of a fundamental design issue, in that I think that PoV is weak and SY is fine.

Oh lol no no. I would agree as well that “SY!” would be absurdly overpowered if that’s the case.

I apologize if I sounded harsh. I’m kinda cynical because I’ve seen many guardian threads got out of hand because one person started whining. It triggers a swarm of absurd buffs suggestions.

xFireize.6318:

ArchonWing.9480:

Yes, I mistakenly thought that in this scenario that every ally would have all their conditions converted to boons. You can scratch that point.

Though, I never said you were whining. That’s my job, but you are free to restrict the topic to such. I think it’s more of a fundamental design issue, in that I think that PoV is weak and SY is fine.

Oh lol no no. I would agree as well that “SY!” would be absurdly overpowered if that’s the case.

I apologize if I sounded harsh. I’m kinda cynical because I’ve seen many guardian threads got out of hand because one person started whining. It triggers a swarm of absurd buffs suggestions.

No problem. I would be pretty hypocritical to really condemn you for being harsh.

Anyhow, yea too much hyperbole about negative stuff has ruined many threads across Gw2. I swear we could talk about what’s the best way to make a grilled cheese sandwich and someone would come screaming about how terrible healing signet is and low guardian health. :p Though the condition-hp relationship is a touching issue for some.

But yea, it’s good that you’re making an attempt to figure it out how it works, because it’s honestly not very intuitive and even the wiki is confusing sometimes on these matters. It will only help the game more if its mechanics are more consistent and transparent.

xFireize.6318:

Does that ever happen? Even tho PoV and Soldier runes are triggered after “SY!”, I would think they are still instant. Are you saying it’s possible for my allies get a condition in the moment between “SY!” and PoV + Soldier runes?

This is all bad news to me, but I appreciate the clarifications.

It’s my turn for confusion – I was thinking of re-application between shouts and not just on a single cast of SY! – so no, you are right that won’t ever happen

xFireize.6318:

Seriously… I feel the more I learn about GW2 mechanics, the more likely I am to get disappointed.

Welcome to why so many veteran PvPers have dropped the game to wait for improvements. That, and the meta seems to take an excessively long time to evolve at all.