Guild Wars 2

33% damage reduction for an entire group for 5 secs and an AoE knockback, interrupt, stun, ranged mitigator, and a small heal on top of that. Not to mention an amazing easy to get trait that increases toughness by 90 and reduces shield cooldowns by 20%

Why would anyone choose 2 more damage skills when they can swap to a dps weapon when its time to burn someone?

People who say shields are bad are crazy.

Is that a thing? Do people think shields are bad? I use a shield on my Guardian, but I also frequently use a focus. I feel like the focus might even be a better choice in some cases. Coupled with a sword you get incredible defensive capability with a focus with two blinds and three blocks.

I don’t think that it’s a matter of people thinking the shield is bad, because it isn’t. It’s probably just that it’s not as good as a focus in most cases.

nldixon.8514:

Is that a thing? Do people think shields are bad? I use a shield on my Guardian, but I also frequently use a focus. I feel like the focus might even be a better choice in some cases. Coupled with a sword you get incredible defensive capability with a focus with two blinds and three blocks.

I don’t think that it’s a matter of people thinking the shield is bad, because it isn’t. It’s probably just that it’s not as good as a focus in most cases.

There’s been a few pretty heated threads decrying the uselessness of Shields. I never bought it either, although your last sentence totally nailed it: for general use, Focus offers more benefits in more situations. Of course, you really should be keeping a good shield and a good focus in your backpack, if not in your swap sets. Guardians seem to forget that we can use both.

I much prefer the Shield offhand for dungeons though, by far.

I still prefer scepter/focus for the ranged capability.

Shield is limited to defense while a focus can be used for both, and its a pretty well-known concept that a good offense is the best defense… that and kiting, lots of kiting.

I’ll pull up with some “shield hate” for you :P

No I don’t really hate shields on Guardian because they do have uses but…

I like focus more as an offhand defensive weapon because of the focus 5. It can be used while stunned or knocked down and absorbs 3 hits. AKA saves your life when things go bad in dungeons or pvp. Shield cannot do that.

Shield is better in WvW or throwing people off a point in spvp. But shield will not save your kitten when things really get bad.

EDIT: I would like shields more if one or more of the following:

Shield absorb prevented aoe damage in the area (red circle damage)
Shield cooldowns were reduced.
Shield Armor was drastically increased (factor of 300 to 500%)

Eveningstar.6940:

nldixon.8514:

Is that a thing? Do people think shields are bad? I use a shield on my Guardian, but I also frequently use a focus. I feel like the focus might even be a better choice in some cases. Coupled with a sword you get incredible defensive capability with a focus with two blinds and three blocks.

I don’t think that it’s a matter of people thinking the shield is bad, because it isn’t. It’s probably just that it’s not as good as a focus in most cases.

There’s been a few pretty heated threads decrying the uselessness of Shields. I never bought it either, although your last sentence totally nailed it: for general use, Focus offers more benefits in more situations. Of course, you really should be keeping a good shield and a good focus in your backpack, if not in your swap sets. Guardians seem to forget that we can use both.

I much prefer the Shield offhand for dungeons though, by far.

Gotcha. I tend to skip over threads with a bunch of whining in them, so I probably missed most of the “shields stink” threads. Hehe.

Shields are infinitely better when you fight in groups.
Small scale I would say focus is better if you want survivability.

I too think the defense on shields should be upped. Normally a shield would have the same defense as your breastlplate. But 61 defence on a lvl 80 unique is a joke when my breastplates defense is 363. Using a shield without a blocking ability should at least give a benefit by reducing damage taken by a certain % which it doesn`t. We aren`t going to get a block skill for it, we allready have aegis that refreshes every 40 seconds or so. Could you imagine if a shields worn benifit was a 25% chance to block attacks? Which would make sense, but I can hear the people screaming now at how op we would be with a skill or tool that actually makes kitten sense.

I doubt they will ever revamp the shield skills. They have uses. You got the projectile bubble/heal which is nice and you got the on demand protection which is always saved for heavy attacks or covering wounded allies. To Anet I imagine these skills seem perfect. And even if they were, the shield needs a huge defense increase to make it more appealing.

Shield is harder to use because its 5 is rather situational and hard to work into a combat strategy. It would be fine as a utility, but you generally want your weapon skills to be things that you use frequently in combat with as little “niche-filling” as possible. They’re the skills you’re using most often and the source of your damage.

That’s why, I think, most people say it’s bad. Shield’s 4 is amazing, but it gets married to a 5 that’s difficult to use except in the particular situations where it shines. Focus has a good 4 and a good 5, both generally useful in almost any occasion, and both useful for the tanky and support builds that would otherwise consider the shield.

lol, why use a shield for protection boon? It lasts 5 secs and has a 30 sec cd. Its easier, more effective to just use hammer skill 1. Its not a cone, it has no cd, it has a large radius if you take the trait that increase symbol size. There really is no real reason to take the shield AT ALL. Not even for weapon swap.

Wall of Reflection> Shield of Absorption
Hammer chain> Shield of Judgement

It’s not that shield is bad per se. It’s just worse than its alternatives in PVE content.

In sPVP the knocback and anti-projectile dome is indeed useful. However in PVE if I’m fighting with lots of ranged mobs I take wall of reflection. And against melee I want to use focus 10 out of 10 times. I mean – sure, shield can give you cone protection to your allies. Or, you can keep the melee mob on yourself, and survive him easily with 4 and 5 of focus, combined with mace, while your party takes no dmg from the mob., because you’re keeping him busy.

If bosses weren’t practically immune to knocback, shield might’ve been a viable alternative in pve. However they are, which means most of the time shield is subpar to focus in defensive scenarios (not useless, just less useful).

Why take the Shield over the Hammer for the prot boon?

Simply put, people don’t pile up in dungeons, or anywhere that’s not a zerg (not counting certain fights where blocking ranged spells means an easy win, in which case Shield gets to go anyway). Or, simply put, I can save someone who’s running for their life with a Shield Prot, instead of needing an enemy, five seconds windup time, and the guy to stop running for his life.

Not that this debate means much to me, since I switch my weapons around all the time anyway. This is not a class where I feel like choosing two weapon sets and keeping them forever is a smart move, I put on whatever’s going to best help me complete my objective.

Luigi,

That still doesn’t seem practical. You won’t save anyone from death with protection boon and its harder to catch other players with Shield of Judgement than it is with the Hammer chain.

Reason? Most people tend to keep moving and the shield is a small frontal cone. There is ZERO reason to even consider the shield as option at this time. You shouldn’t be protecting it, you should be voicing to Anet to change it.

If the shield #4 did aoe rather than cone I can see it be good.

Right now im gonna be honest, focus is just way better.
Im saying this and I’m a shield user.

I use shield for aesthetic/flavor reasons. I just like shields.
They were useful in Crucible of Eternity but thats the problem, its niche while focus is just good all around.

Jimmyup.5236:

Shields are infinitely better when you fight in groups.
Small scale I would say focus is better if you want survivability.

This guy basically nailed it. Warrior an Engineer shields are meant to defend themselves mostly. For Guardians, we’re alnost sheilds incarnate, so our sheilds are sheilds^2, we use them to protect others plus ourselves. The focus now mostly protects ourself, whereas another’s focus is only a “slight” defensive help, instead of a main one. We move defence to the next level. Thats how Guardians roll.

Jimmyup.5236:

Shields are infinitely better when you fight in groups.
Small scale I would say focus is better if you want survivability.

This guy basically nailed it. Warrior an Engineer shields are meant to defend themselves mostly. For Guardians, we’re alnost sheilds incarnate, so our sheilds are sheilds^2, we use them to protect others plus ourselves. The focus now mostly protects ourself, whereas another’s focus is only a “slight” defensive help, instead of a main one. We move defence to the next level. Thats how Guardians roll.

The Hammer vs. Shield debate doesn’t really make sense, because these two weapons are not in competition with each other. Shield doesn’t operate in a vacuum. It’s never Hammer or just Shield. It’s Hammer or Scepter/Shield, or Sword/Shield, or Mace/Shield. You don’t take Hammer purely for Symbol of Protection, and you don’t take Shield purely for Shield of Judgement.

Shield is a group support weapon. In any situation in which you’re taking damage, Shield of Judgement is useful. -33% damage to your entire team can and does save lives in PVE, especially when damage comes rapidly from multiple sources, but even when it doesn’t. Because Blind isn’t so useful on Champion level enemies, and Shield of Wrath doesn’t protect anyone else but you, Shield has a good place in Dungeon PVE when paired with a one-hander.

There really is no real reason to take the shield AT ALL. Not even for weapon swap.

This is pretty excessive, even for hyperbole. If you want to argue that Shield is lackluster, could use a real block/aegis mechanic and tends to lose out to Focus in general play, I’d actually agree with you. But I can’t imagine whom you’d convince making statements like that. Definitely not ANet.

I run Hammer + Scepter/Shield in explorable modes and find it really useful. I use it in conjunction with Scepter as there are a lot of scenarios where it’d be unwise to sit in melee range the whole time, scepter/shield is extremely effective at peeling for your teammates with both the immobilize and the knockback. With the luxury of range, it’s also not rocket science to hit your party with the cone protection.

People complain a lot about the CDs on shield, while it’s not short, it’s not by any means THAT long. Shield of Wrath is 45s, it’s even longer than SoA. Hell, even Reaper’s Mark is a 40s CD and all it does is a 1s fear.

In the end, a peel is a peel, using it a crucial moments is all it needs, no matter the distance, a knockback/interrupt serves its purpose. Can it better? I’d welcome it, but you shouldn’t dismiss shields entirely.

have you try your guardian in a big fight? you can buff only 4 ppl and only for 5 sec, then the 33% damage is based on their tough value they for sure take a lot of damage if the enemys push, cos they will take at least 3k of damage x sec so they will take 2k damage for 5 sec…….. mean = 10k of damage .
Your defination of amazing SHOULD BE DIRECT TO THIEF SKILL THAT CAN DO 19.8K OF DAMAGE
Silence please!!!!!!!!!!

AspectsOfWar.5602:

People who say shields are bad are crazy.

The things you list are crap. Go and look at what other classes get.

To all the people saying Shield of Judgement gives protection to your entire team:

How the kitten do you pull that off when it’s a small, difficult to aim cone and your allies are mostly behind you and moving around?

It almost never affects more than one person in my experience.

I’d rather give allies all around me protection with a shout or retaliation with a hammer.

I think Tesq means …

Guardian is not “amazing” and that:

[There] SHOULD BE [a] DIRECT [counter] TO THIEF SKILL THAT CAN DO 19.8K OF DAMAGE.

@gabo:
You had it right when you said scepter/focus was best for ranged and kiting. It’s the only off-hand that really has any use when kiting.

@jimmyup:
I would take it a step further and say in sPvP/WvW focus is great personal defense. In PvE, not so much. You can use something like Hammer with enough control never to need the block and have 2 useful swaps instead of something/focus just so you can block when you can dodge. Focus is kind of useless in PvE outside of kiting some tougher champions, etc. Later on when you start getting sigils, this will become even more apparent. For example, I run with a sigil of stamina on my shield which recharges my endurance (dodge bar) on every kill. Between Hammer which has insane control and the sigil in my mace/shield set, I rarely have to block in PvE.

@OutsiderSubtype:
Turn your enemy around and then use it. You should be doing this anyway so your team isn’t affected by any cone AoE’s the enemy has.

@ANET:
Fix your forums so we can quote people consistently!

So I could be using this difficult to use skill to grant my team protection, or I could be using Hold the Line on a shorter cooldown which also grants regeneration?

You will say that Hold the Line is a utility. True, but if my goal is buffing my team there are better ways to do it than Shield of Judgment.

I do see the value of Scepter/Shield for some situations in dungeons. But it’s a niche role. For general play the shield is lackluster.

It’s virtually useless against bosses in dungeons. Usually they are resistant to Blind and are totally immune to the knockback/interrupt of 5.

OutsiderSubtype.4329:

So I could be using this difficult to use skill to grant my team protection, or I could be using Hold the Line on a shorter cooldown which also grants regeneration?

You will say that Hold the Line is a utility. True, but if my goal is buffing my team there are better ways to do it than Shield of Judgment.

I do see the value of Scepter/Shield for some situations in dungeons. But it’s a niche role. For general play the shield is lackluster.

Nope, I won’t say that. I run both so that I can have protection up on my allies for longer.

Darx.9842:

It’s virtually useless against bosses in dungeons. Usually they are resistant to Blind and are totally immune to the knockback/interrupt of 5.

Shield doesn’t have a blind, you’re thinking of focus.

Aza.2105:

Luigi,

That still doesn’t seem practical. You won’t save anyone from death with protection boon and its harder to catch other players with Shield of Judgement than it is with the Hammer chain.

Reason? Most people tend to keep moving and the shield is a small frontal cone. There is ZERO reason to even consider the shield as option at this time. You shouldn’t be protecting it, you should be voicing to Anet to change it.

What? What sort of crazy moon logic is this?

You think it’s easier to…what….get ahead of a person, find a convenient enemy, and wind up the FULL Hammer chain……than it is to simply fire off the shield blast? And the shield blast is both instant and easy to aim, so no, I don’t find it easier to work my way through the Hammer chain while trying to get ahead of a fleeing comrade.

And your argument that I won’t save lives with Prot is invalid, as I HAVE saved lives with Prot before. I’d hit someone with it, and they managed to get their heal off a couple seconds later with 19 health left, and did not die. Without my Prot boon, they would have died.

You don’t like the shield, I get that. But that is no excuse for using bad logic to support your dislike.

It must be illogical to someone like you. Are you running in a pug? Tell your friends to stay around you. My god, how hard is that!? Is it easier to tell oh i dunno a group of 4 other people to stand directly in a small area in front of you OR is it easier to tell them to stand within that big glowing circle on the ground (while getting healed if you trait for it)?

I don’t dislike the shield, I’m just not dense enough to try to make it seem like its amazing! Hold the line is even better than shield of judgement hah.

So you can have prot on your friends every 30 seconds. I can perma keep prot up with the hammer chain. If you don’t have a enemy close to you and they use projectiles, use wall of reflection that way your friends take no damage! Who would of thought that! ?

Here’s what’s illogical to me: telling a group of people to bunch up on one spot in a dungeon and expecting them to do it.

Unless I’m bouncing between multiple ranged walls against a solely ranged enemy, they’re not going to do it. They’re not going to have TIME to do it, and bunching up in a boss fight is likely to increase overall damage sustained, even if it lowers the damage done to an individual.

I’d much rather have a group that’s spread out, and only one person eating damage, than a bunched up group where EVERYONE is taking less damage, but still getting the crap knocked out of them.

Oh, and lulz at the WoR reference, since I stated that ranged fights were the exception to spreading out, and the Shield is useful in that particular instance too, thanks to it being able to block range, in the FIRST post you responded to.

Also lulz, as I never once stated that the shield is amazing. Not ONCE. I don’t worship the shield, but I don’t sit there and try to pretend the Hammer is be-all end-all better, either. I simply stated that there are situations where the Shield Prot boon is much more useful than people are making it out to be.

And one of the fundamental building blocks of this game is adapting to situations. Hence why you should always be carrying a full set of weapons—to maximize your options and use what’s best for each situation. So yeah, in the scenario YOU described, the Hammer may work better. In the scenario I described, the Shield may work better.

That’s kind of the point.

Again, I say, if you dislike the shield, fine, you want improvements made, great, I welcome them. But bad logic is not an acceptable reason, and saying the Hammer is better as a blanket statement is bad logic.

I admit I use shield in open PvE largely for aesthetics (though knocking a clusterkitten of enemies off someone else can be nice as well). However I do like it on its own merits in WvW. The more projectile defense for your group, the better imo. Wall of Reflection is awesome, but a backup never hurts.

I think the shield cooldowns need to be reduced slightly. It feels ridiculous to just walk around waiting for my cooldowns to pop and doing nothing with my shield arm.

The 90 toughness trait now also reduces you shields cooldowns to a more reasonable timer. Still long but better then it was.

Shields are pretty much amazing on all 3 classes that can use them.

lol, why use a shield for protection boon? It lasts 5 secs and has a 30 sec cd. Its easier, more effective to just use hammer skill 1. Its not a cone, it has no cd, it has a large radius if you take the trait that increase symbol size. There really is no real reason to take the shield AT ALL. Not even for weapon swap.
Wall of Reflection> Shield of Absorption
Hammer chain> Shield of Judgement

While I think the shield feels completely empty when the skills are on cool down, you cannot compare Wall Of Reflection to Shield Of Absorption since one is a utility skill and both can be used at the same time.

Shield Of Judgement does feel like it is lacking something by itself but with the correct traits, 20% cool down reduction and +90 toughness, the shield is quite handy.

I have tried every weapon combination in the game, and i support the fact that choosing a particular weapon or offhand as “superior” is silly.

Shield and focus, being offhands, are better compared when paired with their main hand best match. Then, they both shine in what they do. Traits, or not.

Take Sword+Focus. Brilliant combination, two blind, two blocks, ranged defense, good attack. Fast, kitten chain that activates burning. Best used? Single, hard hitting mobs that AREN’T IMMUNE TO BLIND (important).
You start with 2 and after a couple of second, 4. You have avoided 2 hits from the boss. Then you hit 5, you have avoided another 3 hits from the boss and can reliably activate 3 and do some damage, then is swapping time to your DPS weapon or waiting to restart in a few seconds.

Take Mace+Shield. Solid as a ROCK. Double group and self heals, a block of sort, two ways of granting protection and ranged defense. Best used? Groups of mobs, or a boss who is immune to blind IF the group can stay together. Start with 3 and then 2, then after a while, 4. 5 if needed, else is switch time.

What is the best combination? Guess what… i use both. I use one of these and the hammer. Which of them i use, it depends on the next encounter. Yes, i switch alot of weapons during dungeons, and even traits. I switch to the traits that makes symbols larger when i use the mace, and to blind=vulnerability trait when using the sword.

So, argument on “this is better than that” are moot for me. It is always situational. As all of this game’s mechanics are.

Shield is lacklustre, could use a real block/aegis mechanic and tends to lose out to Focus in general play.

Wish the shield had some kind of passive trait that made it a shield. Unless I am mistaken the only thing different between say a focus and a shield is the spells.

Sokelial.1428:

Wish the shield had some kind of passive trait that made it a shield. Unless I am mistaken the only thing different between say a focus and a shield is the spells.

Shield gives defense. There’s another difference. I would love it if one of the shield skills gave Aegis. It fits the concept of shield and guardian very well, imo.

Fabsm.5897:

I have tried every weapon combination in the game, and i support the fact that choosing a particular weapon or offhand as “superior” is silly.

So, argument on “this is better than that” are moot for me. It is always situational. As all of this game’s mechanics are.

This is 100% true. GW2 definitely dictates weapon use by situation.

Sairenkao.6485:

Shield gives defense. There’s another difference. I would love it if one of the shield skills gave Aegis. It fits the concept of shield and guardian very well, imo.

Where are you seeing that shields give defense? Maybe I’m not high enough lvl to have such a shield :/…

Sokelial.1428:

Sairenkao.6485:

Shield gives defense. There’s another difference. I would love it if one of the shield skills gave Aegis. It fits the concept of shield and guardian very well, imo.

Where are you seeing that shields give defense? Maybe I’m not high enough lvl to have such a shield :/…

All Shields give some defense on equip. The tooltip should mention how much. A level 80 Shield gives about 37 defense.

Traited, Shields also grant Toughness to you and your teammates.

Shield is awful and whoever says otherwise, simply hasn’t tested the Focus or never played with the Shield.

In theory, it is indeed amazing: OH MY it gives defense, plus has a trait with NINETY toughness and 20% CD reduction O-M-G why would I ever use another offhand.

On practice: you already have well over 1.5k toughness as a Guardian, whereas 90 is a WASTE of master trait slot, the 20% CD on the abysmal long cd skills makes no differnce whatsoever, you will still use the skills ONCE per encounter at most not counting the terrible mechanic on #4 and the huge failure that #5 is, KD doesnt work half the time, heal is pitiful, projectile absorption? wall of reflection says hi tyvm.

OP, I suggest you playin Guardian more. You seem like a newbie to me trying to make people believe the shield is amazing when it is actually just subpar in every aspect.

“Shield is awful and whoever says otherwise, simply hasn’t tested the Focus or never played with the Shield.”
Played with both Shield and Focus roughly an equal amount of time. Did some Torch, but not very much. Still love the Shield, especially in sPvP. The #4 skill isn’t the best thing ever, but it works well enough. The #5 is just so amazingly good in sPvP.

Wow, Knuckledust. That was….well, at least you’re right about 90 Toughness being insignificant?

We aren’t saying shield are bad, in fact the skills the shield has are pretty cool. The main complain is that the shield is badly designed because the shield should have the skills the focus has, and the focus should have the skills the shield has. Shields are meant to block melee close quarter combat attacks, so it would be a good idea to at least switch the second shield skill for the second focus skill. The first shield skill is cool and aligned with the warrior first shield skill, but the second one is lame and pretty ridiculous for a shield, making a bubble that blocks projectiles? cmon’ it would be better and more appropiate for a shield to give you something like the focus second skill does “block the next 3 incoming attacks”

Eveningstar.6940:

All Shields give some defense on equip. The tooltip should mention how much. A level 80 Shield gives about 37 defense.

Traited, Shields also grant Toughness to you and your teammates.

Just had a shield offered as a personal story quest reward and it does have the defense listed on it now. Checked on the BLTC and they all list defense as well. Either I’m blind or they just decided to add it to the tooltips today

Mace/Shield boon spamming -33% damage

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again—Guardians don’t put shields on to protect THEMSELVES. They put shields on to protect OTHERS. And there is no bodyblocking in this game, so the only way to protect others is through AoE effects.

Regardless or whether or not the shield’s skills are worthwhile at the moment, they are a perfect fit for the theme of the Guardian, and I disagree that the focus block needs to be switched, as it not only has an offensive component to it, but is actively used by many players for the AoE blast, and thus fits the focus more than the shield.

You want a shield to help your personal survival? Play a Warrior or an Engineer. Guardians are out there to shield everyone else as well.

And Sokelial, you’re just blind ;p

I find the #5 skill more fitting for a shield than the #4. It reminds me of 300, where they all raise their shields to stop the rain of arrows.