Guild Wars 2

Okay fellow Guardians, I have a dilemma. While running Fractals yesterday (lvl 1, no less) Skybringer dropped for me. I know, awesome, right? Or maybe not? Or maybe it could be? Hmmm….

I know +heal is crap right now. But, Superior Sigil of Life was already on the sword. That is a potential +378 heals on one item. Is there a point when +heals becomes significant?

I have been running the typical AH support build with a Hammer/Staff and my gear is for a support roll. I mainly do Wv3 and PvE. This sword will be an obvious upgrade to my rare weapons. But, I am not rich, so grabbing a couple gold would be nice, as well.

That is my dilemma. Should I try the great sword and see if there is a point when +heals becomes acceptable or just sell it for as much gold as I can get?

Sell it. GS likely won’t work with you Hammer/Staff build. Use the cash to buy a nice exotic hammer.

A named exotic will likely sell for enough gold to get you your exotic hammer or close to it.

Healing Power is the worst statpoint in the Game. I would Never invest in it.

if the weapon doesn’t fit your playstyle and none of your alts can use it’d I’d say sell it and by something more useful such as Ironfist

I really like this hammer it’s simple yet awesome.

Kyouhei.2341:

Healing Power is the worst statpoint in the Game. I would Never invest in it.

It’s good for elementalists. Unfortunately you’re not an elementalist so it’s worthless for you.

Hey GraynX,

Unless you’re strapped for cash and the Skybringer is selling well, I’d hang on to it. There’s a possibility ANet will talk about relative stat value in a coming update, because I can’t possibly imagine they intend all Guardians to sit in Knights+Valkyrie’s, if not full Berserker’s. So a future update may make the greatsword more useful than it is now.

This is assuming you’re attached to the sword and want a good excuse to use it. If that’s not the case, and it’s selling well, may as well rake in a fistful of gold.

If you don’t like the stats can’t you just transmute it?
Or i it not possible to transmute it
Btw i think the stats are crap ^^

Well, unless you have some other stacking sigil you prefer, you can always just get 25 kills and then stick it in the bag. The stacks stay on till you zone or are downed. I use Skybringer that way a lot. Same for Breath of Flame and the 25 stacks of .6 magic find if farming (EDIT: I replaced the stock sigil with a Superior Luck.) Dosn’t work in dungeon’s very well as I go down too often, but in general PvE it seems fine.

Eveningstar.6940:

Hey GraynX,

Unless you’re strapped for cash and the Skybringer is selling well, I’d hang on to it. There’s a possibility ANet will talk about relative stat value in a coming update, because I can’t possibly imagine they intend all Guardians to sit in Knights+Valkyrie’s, if not full Berserker’s. So a future update may make the greatsword more useful than it is now.

This is assuming you’re attached to the sword and want a good excuse to use it. If that’s not the case, and it’s selling well, may as well rake in a fistful of gold.

I have to agree with you, healing power seems to be so undervalued right now that Anet probably needs to take a look at it. In which case, if they decide to give the secondary attribute some love, this sword’s worth may improve.

I have been reading people having success with healing power, once they reach the +1500 range. That is a lot of sacrifice to get that high, though. Right now I am in the acceptable 300-600 range and probably will stay there until I see some changes to the attribute.

There are also some reports that upper level Fractals require much more survivability vice DPS. I wonder if there is a niche for healing gear moving into upper Fractals.

Unfortunately, the sword is only selling for 2-3 gold. That is nothing to balk at, but it is not going to buy my precursor either. I will probably just hold for awhile and see where this goes.

It’s a garbage sword, but because it is, the skin isn’t commonly seen. The same is true of the Runic Scimitar. So I’ve bought one just for the skin.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Kyouhei.2341:

Healing Power is the worst statpoint in the Game. I would Never invest in it.

It’s good for elementalists. Unfortunately you’re not an elementalist so it’s worthless for you.

Why would it only be good for elementalists? I find it pretty effective or every professions I play.

i think it’s an awesome looking sword and i’ve never seen it on anyone before in-game. the stats i’d probably transmutate if i were to use it. but again, fingers crossed we’ll see some improvements as to how +Healing Power scales.

i’d bank it for now too. :PP

Kyouhei.2341:

Healing Power is the worst statpoint in the Game. I would Never invest in it.

According to your own bias. No offense meant. I would certainly invest in it.

OP, if it was me, I would even use it, as my builds and gear favor healing (of course, this might not be your case at all). I haven’t even crafted my own Cleric’s Exotic Pearl Blade, since I no longer use Greatswords, but would be elated if such a sword dropped for me. I am one of those “horrible” players with 1,454-1804 healing builds (depending on Sigil of Life stack/build.)

Since it’s not that desirable in the market, you may as well put it in your bank for now, if you are not going to use it for now.

I just did a little testing.

Signet heal – 8150
Healing Breeze – 6525 (self) – 1725 (outgoing)
Meditation Heal (Monk’s Focus) – 1960
Staff Heal – 1500
Virtue of Resolve – 1625
Virtue of Resolve Tick – 84
Mace Autoattack Heal – 335
Symbol of Faith Regen Heal (x4) – 130 – 520

With 1088 healing power (No Honor)

Signet Heal – 9510
Healing Breeze – 7615 (self) – 2815 (outgoing)
Meditation Heal – 2096
Staff heal: 2561
Virtue of Resolve – 2053
Virtue of Resolve Tick – 144
Mace Heal – 523
Symbol of Faith Regen Heal (x4) – 266 – 1064

With 1388 healing power (30 honor)

Signet Heal – 9885
Meditation Heal – 2099
Staff Heal – 2888
Virtue of Resolve Heal – 1666
Virtue of Resolve Tick – 167
Mace Heal – 585
Symbol of Faith Regen Heal (x4) – 304 – 1216

So self heals scale 1 to 1 for healing power more or less, as does the staff. Symbol of Faith is roughly .5. Virtue of Resolve is roughly a .7 scaling.

The problem is mostly a lack of outgoing heals. Staff is the only outgoing that scales 1:1. Virtue of Resolve is next. Tome of Courage may also but I didn’t test it. Either way the cooldowns keep it from being all that stunning, as opposed to what you get from Power for example.

And because I left out Altruistic Healing:

0 Healing Power – 64
1088 Healing Power – 80
1388 Healing Power – 83

And since we’re talking about a greatsword in particular:

Zealous Blade

Healing Power 0 – 25
Healing Power 1088 – 25
Healing Power 1388 – 25

So basically, a +healing greatsword is worthless for anything but the skin.

senoph.2930:

So basically, a +healing greatsword is worthless for anything but the skin.

Based on your own interpretation of your own research. You didn’t try even more healing power. Also, why would it be available as a player option if it was all but worthless? Because someone out there (not you, as it’s really not for you it seems) may find good use for it. The more correct wording would be that it would be worthless for you but for the skin, as your research didn’t turn me off from the sword or healing power at all.

No offense/harshness meant above! Let’s aree to disagree.

A exotic Cleric’s greatsword would suit me just fine-it’s just that I am not using Greatswords nowadays.

There’s no “agree to disagree” on this matter. Zealous Blade does not scale with healing. The best outgoing heal is Staff’s, not Greatsword’s. Altruistic Healing adds another 20 or so healing per tick with 1388 healing. It may be the single worst stat for a greatsword user in any regard in a race to the bottom with condition damage (ignoring things like poison duration).

You’re better off investing in toughness or vitality if you want to improve your own survivability, and your outgoing heals aren’t going to save your group more than you actually killing the enemy faster and cutting down the total engagement time accordingly.

(Edit: In response to the question, “Also, why would it be available as a player option if it was all but worthless?,” the answer is that they haven’t figured out a proper scaling formula in relation to every class that uses the stat, in the same way that Guardians don’t benefit from condition damage beyond Burning. There are essentially no builds across all professions which benefit from a +condition damage Greatsword that are effective, as far as I am aware. All of them benefit far more from direct power, crit, and crit damage. In the same vein, a +healing Greatsword has extremely limited applications, none of which are really suitable for Guardian. It is true that you can equip it. It is true that it does slightly boost some healing [the majority of the “full healing gain” skills are either on long cooldowns or not on Greatsword at all.] It is not true that it is a “good stat” objectively speaking.)

BTW, I was confusing Skybringer’s stats with a Cleric’s Gretsword stats. Therefore, even I wouldn’t use this particular sword, though someone may have some use for it somewhere. Vitality is nice, but I don’t like Shaman’s gear that much. Perhaps it would be better for a different type of Warrior rather than a Guardian? I do feel a Cleric’s Exotic greatsword would be “good” for a Guardian with such leanings, but this thread is about a Shaman’s Greatsword instead.

I must disagree with the “all DPS, all the time” mentality, though. It’s not for everybody.

And agreeing to disagree should always be an option, no matter how logical or “right” our point looks to ourselves. Things are just not black and white like that, and there’s room for personal preference-especially on this type of game.

The Greatsword is a DPS weapon. It isn’t a matter of whether or not a full DPS mindset is correct. Its purpose, for Guardian, is to deal damage. It offers some mobility and control, some combo fields, and some buffs, but those buffs are all meant to increase or cause damage (might and retaliation.) That is why the focus of discussion as to whether or not the +healing would make it useful is weighed against damage.

I do not believe in “agreeing to disagree” about something that can be tested, nor do I agree about it in matters of providing information. You can “agree to disagree” about a lot of things, like philosophy. You cannot “agree to disagree” on numbers and logic. The two viewpoints don’t have equal footing, and they shouldn’t be considered equal. OP requested advice, I ran the numbers and showed why it is not a viable weapon, and why a +healing greatsword is not considered to be a reasonable alternative. If you can argue against that also using some sort of evidence, then do so. This is the definition of a black and white situation, because we are dealing with definite values.

I welcome anyone to run the numbers themselves and tell me that +healing is a viable alternative or anything other than inferior to a power/crit/damage% spread instead, in any situation (solo, sPVP, WvWvW, dungeons, or any build that uses a Greatsword.) I’d like to see some actual discussion of the numbers if there is a valid counterpoint, or some scenario where the +healing would be advantageous over the +damage.

The only bias I have here is toward the actual mechanics of the game itself. While I can appreciate anyone that wants to explore the boundaries of those mechanics, presenting any opinion without some sort of evidence or even the slightest testing is misleading for new posters and players that are looking for any actual information.

senoph.2930:

The Greatsword is a DPS weapon. It isn’t a matter of whether or not a full DPS mindset is correct. Its purpose, for Guardian, is to deal damage. It offers some mobility and control, some combo fields, and some buffs, but those buffs are all meant to increase or cause damage (might and retaliation.) That is why the focus of discussion as to whether or not the +healing would make it useful is weighed against damage.

I do not believe in “agreeing to disagree” about something that can be tested, nor do I agree about it in matters of providing information. You can “agree to disagree” about a lot of things, like philosophy. You cannot “agree to disagree” on numbers and logic. The two viewpoints don’t have equal footing, and they shouldn’t be considered equal. OP requested advice, I ran the numbers and showed why it is not a viable weapon, and why a +healing greatsword is not considered to be a reasonable alternative. If you can argue against that also using some sort of evidence, then do so. This is the definition of a black and white situation, because we are dealing with definite values.

I welcome anyone to run the numbers themselves and tell me that +healing is a viable alternative or anything other than inferior to a power/crit/damage% spread instead, in any situation (solo, sPVP, WvWvW, dungeons, or any build that uses a Greatsword.) I’d like to see some actual discussion of the numbers if there is a valid counterpoint, or some scenario where the +healing would be advantageous over the +damage.

The only bias I have here is toward the actual mechanics of the game itself. While I can appreciate anyone that wants to explore the boundaries of those mechanics, presenting any opinion without some sort of evidence or even the slightest testing is misleading for new posters and players that are looking for any actual information.

I mean no disrespect, but it is not black and white because numbers don’t take into account a player’s personal playstyle. 2+2=4, but that doesn’t translate into 4 being necessarily better than 3 (the “wrong” answer), because for somebody’s playing style, 3 may work better for him/her. In short, number crunching is only one part of the equation, and if there were only one or two “best/efficient ways” to play, it would make all other options non-viable (which is what happens for your personal playing style and personality-and that’s fine for you, but not necessarily for everybody else.)

We are very different personality types, and that’s fine. Let’s just agree to disagree on agreeing to disagree. It’s not worth the argument, and I don’t like to debate in any case.

As far as evidence is concerned, DPS builds, which I admit are not my forte nor do I enjoy playing them, get me killed fast vs my 1,500-1800+ healing builds, in which I can survive absurd Orr mobs constantly pounding on me when soloing, which I doubt (no evidence, but previous experience has taught me) I could achieve as a pure Berserker DPS Guardian. And BTW, I also dislike when people mock Berserker players, because it is THEIR CHOICE, and it’s a valid way to play. But the way I choose to “nerf” myself in the eyes of many not only works for me, but makes the gaming experience way more fun (not to mention my allies getting Protection and an awesome Regen almost constantly.) I know from the type of person you seem to be that this isn’t enough “evidence” for you, but I am not one to give you “infallible” numbers as a test of anything-just not who I am.

To be fair, I have considered getting armor with more offensive stats, but what turns me off from doing so is that healing power works so well for my playstyle. I may do a slight compromise later on (I honestly feel I am “kittening” myself if I do not have enough Healing Power-it’s basically what I prefer, whether it is logical or not.) This is, IMHO, what cannot be accounted for by numbers-a players affinity with a certain playing approach. And of course, I would never tell you that it’s “wrong” to play your Guardian as a DPS class, for who am I to tell you how to enjoy GW2? But yeah, knowing how I do play GW2, I could see myself devising builds to work around healing and the Greatsword somehow (I even have a “Fiery Dragon Sword of Life”, so I talk from experience.)

Perhaps I should make my own Exotic Cleric Greatsword, but I honestly hate the Pearl Blade skin, and have only one Advanced Transmutation Stone left. Since I barely use it anyway, it might be a waste. The ugly skin really turns me off from trying it, and I haven’t unlocked the Fellblade from GW1 yet, sadly.

I hope I didn’t anger you for my lack of a more logical approach, such as yours. Safe ventures to you.

Regeneration Boon scales particularly well with Healing Power and Guardians have good ways to apply it to teammates.

Kyouhei.2341:

Healing Power is the worst statpoint in the Game. I would Never invest in it.

Are you kidding? I have about 1300 healing and 2 dodges from Selfless daring fills up close to half my life. Weapon swap for another 50% endurance and I’m almost full HP with Virtue of Resolve ticks.

Just to respond to most of the thread after my last post, it is true that people have different playstyles. Healing Guardians and Support Guardians are obviously viable alternatives to a straight DPS spec, and I myself enjoy Monk’s Focus and using a Staff/Greatsword combination for a good deal of content because it allows for more varied play and support. However, we’re talking about this sword, and healing greatswords in particular. There is a definite situation for which greatswords are used. It is damage. The skills are all for damage or control. If you want to be good support and damage in one weapon, you pick up a Hammer for that, because it is better (protection, combo blast finisher, heals yourself with AH, healing symbols if you trait it, etc.)

I can appreciate that there are different playstyles, and there are lots of different situations, but the Greatsword is a DPS weapon. That is what it is meant to do. I don’t know how much more obvious that could be. I’m not even an elitist in these matters. I like strange specs, I like playing with professions in my group outside of the normal rotation of other Guardians and Warriors, and I’ve even messed around with Condition-based builds even though I’ve already stated they’re not very good, but if someone asks for advice, you give them advice. You shouldn’t give them “well maybes.” If they want to try it out on their own and build a healing spec around Greatsword, they should ask for that specifically.

And yes, Healing Power is the worst stat in the game. It scales horribly. That’s not a question of “should you ever use it,” it just means that you don’t get as much as you probably should for the amount of stat points that you have to invest into it. I understand why that is, of course. If it scaled better you really would get people trying to be straight healers as a part of the trinity system again. They will have to balance it at some point so that people will want to have some of it in a “balanced” spec. As it is right now, you can’t really have a little condition damage, a little healing, etc. The benefits just aren’t worth it.

If you want to try a more offensive spec with healing and survivability, my advice is to invest in Valkyrie gear and pick up 30 in valor so that you get Monk’s Focus or Altruistic Healing. I think Berserker specs are usually bad personally speaking. As long as you maintain a decent amount of crit and crit damage you will be more than fine, and Monk’s Focus is good for most things (sPVP, solo, etc) My current gear is a mix of Valkyrie, Berserker weapons, some soldiers pieces, Beryl (Valkyrie) accessories, and right now I’m doing 10/30/30/0/0. You could easily do 10/0/30/20/0 or even just 0/0/30/20/20 for a hybrid type spec as long as your gear is right while picking up stuff like Altruistic Healing and Empowering Might, or larger symbols. You’re open to a lot more possibilities with damage-focused (but not glass cannon) gear than you are without. You can always spec to heal a bit better or have more healing in general through traits, but if you hit like a wet noodle, the traits aren’t going to help.

There is an interesting discussion going on over at Reddit concerning +healing power and other attributes.

“tl;dr: Healing Power scales just as effectively as any other stat, at least for Guardian. People who say it’s useless aren’t considering how many different things it affects, how often healing happens, and the fact that in GW2 offense is linear while survivability is cyclical.”

As I have said before and what I have seen about most things in this game, there are very few hard standards; most things (even when they seem obvious), tend to be open for debate.

+healing power is amazing.

I rock a mace/shield/hammer with sigils of life on the melee and a sigil of energy on the shield.
Im mostly in Cleric’s with some apothecary thrown in (money constraints) snd ive got two superior runes of water, the monk, and 2 major runes of sanctuary. The heals and boon duration stack.
Im also traited so that i heal when i dodge, put down a symbol, etc.

Im not too much for damage but im not really supposed to. I keep everyone alive, apply boons and remove conditions. Just last night I tanked Kohler for a pug while everyone else line of sighted him from range.

I didnt dodge every pull either. Lol

My point is +heals is very useful in the hands of a capable player. I pretty much dont die. Lol

To each their own tho

As a side note, i do like that skin. Lol

If you don’t want its stats, get an ugly one with good stats and transmute it.

I run Guardian main and I speak from my experience. Funnily enough my Healing Power is 1,337 at the moment. It’s far from useless imo. I’m running a shout based healing build and it works well. Mace/Focus, Scepter/Shield. Scepter needs buffing but the immobile is extremely useful when someone’s getting hit on hard by a vet or champ. Also the knockback and heal from SoA is nice. I’m not entirely sure if it’s working correctly though. Arrows seem to go through it are they supposed too???

Personally with your build I would not stick with that and actually knowing
the stats of Skybringer its not really a weapon for your guardian.

Although I understand the importance and utilization of healing power
the great sword is not the weapon that maximizes its potential .

Lets also not forget those who use the GS heal to somehow make up for the lack of viability
in terms of AH maximization that would to invest a gross amount
of points into zeal and throw off his whole build, if you ask me one
weapon is not worth a complete change of play-style.

Even beyond that, the weapon uses condition damage
(I may receive some reply’s for this)
is one of the worst stats to invest in as a guardian not because
I’m dismissing the power of condition damage overall but the
guardian honestly has like 2 conditions.

A burn (constantly prevalent but overall its dps compared to
bleeds or poisons is on the lower side) a unique condition created
by the great sword (not usually used for the dot itself as it doesn’t
last for an extreme amount of time and is really used for a CC).

So in conclusion no this weapons is about a 1/3 a
pretty deep miss for your build your better off selling it
and get yourself a nice hammer