Guild Wars 2

- Now this is a topic i have yet to see and therefore i will post it myself. I know one cannot directly compare two classes since there is a lot more to consider rather than direct traits and effects but there are some intuits shait going on here in my opinion.

- This will be a long first post and yes i am sorry about that.

- So to get the core component of the class we have to understand the basic goal of each of the two class, i am going to refer to the wiki on this so it might and probably is outdated but that is the best i got.

- Warriors - are masters of martial skills. They rely on speed, strength, toughness, and heavy armor to survive. They’re versatile in combat and benefit from offensive and defensive abilities. Warriors inspire allies and demoralize enemies. As a soldier profession, warriors wear heavy armor.

- Guardians - specialize in protective and defensive magic. A deep sense of loyalty to their allies fuels their passion and power. As a soldier profession, guardians wear heavy armor.

- So that is the core concept of the two classes now lets get to work shall we.
The below post will show you a spreadsheet of all the meditation and shout mechanics. But i warn you, it will be a wall of text so if you already know the mechanics skip them.

- Now let the discussion begin, As i can see it most of the Warriors shout do what they intend to do for a offensive class focused on supporting. Giving exactly that a offensive support with the exception of “Shrug it off”.

- Both classes have rather similar traits when it comes down to it, they both have recharge reduction both have healing on activation as Grandmaster and they both have one additional trait that both give it in two different ways. Warrior gain adrenalin and Guardian gain fury.

- Now lets start the direct discussion about Guardians version, first off two of our meditation are offensive tools one with teleport in it and one with condition cleansing. Now this for me At least seems awkward, for a class that is about protecting allies.

- This once again become really awkward when you start comparing both Guardian vs Warrior as there version heals themselves and an additional 4 allies for a smaller base but a lot higher scaling value than the Guardian. And add to that that there version that removes condition will cure Allies and act as a stun breaker(self only as a breaker i assume) with only a difference of 5 second, while our version deals damage(We are supposed to be defensive support right.

- That adds even more to the awkwardness of what they want to achieve with Guardian Meditation, Then we have the additional trait recently added in a patch and probably not fully balanced yet but it last for 4 seconds(No Guardian that run full meditation is ever going to have boon duration, but with boon duration of 100% it becomes good) it is really lack lusting, once again it feels weird as it only buffs ourselves.

- And Warrior has an additional choice if they want to use Runes so all there shouts will remove one additional condition of yourself and four other allies within range. While as far as i know there is no Runes to buff meditations.

- We do however have one benefit over the warriors so far when comparing traits, we have all our three in the same tree while they have two in the same and one in a different so we do have that on them at least.

- So what does this add up to. Well i am not against Warriors gaining a supportive role, we all should be able to contribute with more than one role but our classes are defined that Warrior is supposed to be the offensive support. While we are the Defensive support, Yet when one compare the two builds traits and skills against each other, it feels almost like the opposite. That the Guardian is a overall offensive skills while the Warrior has defensive support.

- And as a final notice as i have posted before if one compare the current cool down on average to a Warrior vs Meditation, Warriors average is a lot lower if we use the three fastest shouts vs the three fastest meditations.

Without Traits 20% as both classes have it.
Fourth one was excluded as they both have 60 seconds cool down.
Warrior average cool down = 26.6666666667 on the three fastest one equipped.

Guardian average cool down =38.3333333333 on the three fastest one equipped.

- I know Meditation is supposed to be a more selfish spec but for me, it makes no sense currently if we compare the two against each other. Especially since Guardian is supposed to be more defensive support class overall while warriors is supposed to be offensive.

- And that concludes my demonstration any questions?

Spreadsheet of doom from hell.
————————————————————————————————————————————
Warrior
“Fear Me!”

60 Recharge
Induce fear in your foes.

400-600 range: 1 s
200-400 range: 2 s
0-200 range: 3 s
Range: 600

“For Great Justice!”

25 Recharge time
Grant fury and might to yourself and allies.

Fury: 8 s
Might: 25 s
Radius: 600

“On My Mark!”

30 Recharge time
Call out target foe to make them vulnerable.

Vulnerability: 10 s
Range: 1,200

“Shake It Off!”

25 Recharge time
Cure a condition on yourself and nearby allies. Also breaks stuns.

Radius: 600
Breaks stun

Guardian
Contemplation of Purity

60 Recharge time
Convert the conditions you are suffering from into boons.
(Long list so check the wiki.)
Breaks stun

Judge’s Intervention

45 Recharge time
Teleport to your target and burn nearby foes.

Burning: 3 s (984 damage)
Damage: 122 (base)
Breaks stun
Range: 1,200

Merciful Intervention

50 Recharge time
Teleport to the nearest ally with the lowest health and create a healing area around them.(Nearest ally so ignore the tooltip above)

Healing: 1,960 (0.6)?
Range: 1,200

Smite Condition

20 Recharge time
Cure a condition and damage nearby foes. More damage if a condition is cured.

Damage with no conditions: 207 (0.58)?
Damage with condition: 463 (1.31)?

- Ok phew now we have that sorted out, sorry about the long post but i assume not everyone know what each of the “Shout” and “Meditation” means so i had to get it out there now lets move on to the next part.

- We will start with Warrior Again, even though this is the Guard Forum

Warrior
Discipline

Inspiring Shouts(Adept) – Gain adrenaline when using a shout.
Adrenaline: 8(=27% Adrenalin)

Tactics

Lung Capacity(Adept) – Reduces recharge on shouts.
Recharge reduced: 20%

Vigorous Shouts(GrandMaster) – Shouts heal.
Healing: 1,480 (0.9)?

Guardian
Valor

Meditation Mastery(Adept) – Your meditations faster.
Recharge reduced: 20%

Focused Mind(Major) – Meditations grant Fury.
Fury: 4 s

Monk’s Focus(GrandMaster) – You are healed when you use a meditation.
Healing: 1,960 (0.4)?
————————————————————————————————————————————

- Mechanics spreadsheet is over.

I’m not sure this is a meaningful comparison – you’re comparing a group support warrior to a roaming damage focused guardian build. They’re naturally at opposite ends of the utility scale.

Or are you trying to prove the mediocrity of guardian offsensive options even compared to a defensively spec’d warrior

Shout Guard vs Shout Warrior would be a more interesting topic for discussion.

I could add that as well, the reason i put meditation vs shout. Was there similarity and traits and what role they do perform. I only find it odd that there Grandmaster VS our GrandMaster is such a big difference between, especially if you consider the overall cooldown.

Right – well I certainly agree that Guardians have always seem to have a bad deal when it comes to skill cooldowns and effect durations

- And i always did consider the Warrior Banner, although slightly more immobile yet with good coordination used to give up to 15 players permanent regeneration and buffs spread along 5 people each buffs consisting of two stats that get improved. And with the added benefit of other boons such as even 5 more stacks of regeneration and burst healing, with cooldown on the player and not the banner, swiftness, fury and if one would assume the Elite skill an additional 5 people that can get regeneration and might(3stacks i believe) and fury and group stability with once again cooldown on the individual using the banner rather than the banner itself.

- Now banner warriors might have gotten a slight nerf due to the recent priority change to focus on your party members and that is why it might not be regeneration from 5 – 25 people anymore.

- I always feel the shout Warrior was the lazy buff warriors way rather than the banner.

Warrior Shouts and Guardian Shouts both serve as group support utilities.
Inherently, Warrior Shouts are offensive boons/conditions based; Guardians are defensive boons/condi pull.
Warrior shouts traited AoE heal, Guardian shouts traited wipe conditions.

Guardian Meditation should be compared to the Warrior Physical utility line. They offer offensive gap closers and opportunities to do damage.

Guard meditation traits come with Fury (used to be reduction of cast time) because Guardian burst is very compact and intolerant of mistakes; you have to make everything crit/combine skills rapidly to 100-0 something quickly due to how you gear (Full zerker is very fragile) with Trip Med setups. The Grandmaster offers high self-heal at low healing power coefficients (1.9k around) because the Guardian has inherent low health. Meditation augments offensive weapons with ports and extra damage. The utilities in the Meditation line also have condition removal in mind because of the susceptibility to conditions. You can also tell that Meditations are offensive by looking at the Valour trait line; it has critical damage %.

Warrior Physicals are all CC and 2 of them are single target (Kick can cleave!). Although there has been rarely people who run full physical (for fun mostly), most know about Bull’s Charge and Bolas, both of which help with melee gap closing/landing key abilities to gain an upper hand in 1v1.

I dont know if it is a little off topic, but I think that Contemplation of Purity should have its CD reduced to 45 sec. It is basically a Signet of Stamina (Warrior), but with no passive effect, but Contemplation of Purity break out stun and convert conditions into boons.

For me Signet of Stamina is better couse its cooldown and passive effect.

One last note, the main reason i did compare the two “Shout vs Meditaton” Is the last Grandmaster traits vs eachother. Someone probaly did the math before but im going to post it again so people can see, how much bullkitten some of the “balance” is right now

Shout
Average cooldown (25 + 25 + 30) / 3 = 26.6666666667

Healing per use 1,480 (0.9), assuming 0 healing power

1480 × 3 = 4440

4440 / 26.6666666667 = 166.5

So Warriors Grandmaster equals 166.5 HP/s for one up to five people.
Assuming 0 healing power and missing the 20% recharge trait.

Guardian
Average cooldown (45 + 50 + 20) / 3 = 38.3333333333

Healing per use 1,960 (0.4) assuming 0 healing power.

1960 × 3 =5880

5880 / 38.3333333333 = 153.391304348

So Guardian grandmaster equals 153.391304348 HP/s for only yourself.
Assuming no healing power and whitout the 20% recharge.

- Am i the only one that find it weird that not only is Warriors shout healing more per second but also applying to more people and scale +125% bether with healing than our grandmaster?

- Now ofcourse there are other factors but this highly illogical and inbalanced as fudge.