Guild Wars 2

Aza.2105:

Just use blind or aegis while healing. At least that would be the smart thing to do.

I’m not sure if you’re trying to call me dumb. But since you’d always have a blind or aegis available when healing I guess SoR would be a good choice.

The guardian that won the North American TOL used healing breeze as his heal skill. So no you don’t need to use shelter.

There are situations and builds that can capitalize on all of the guardian heals, shelter is very strong but not flat better.

Saying that if you use X skill or X trait you are automatically “bad” is exceptionally stupid. I know of quite a few highly skilled players who use traits/skills that would get them called out as a moron by most of the kitten s on the forums.

brannigan.9831:

The guardian that won the North American TOL used healing breeze as his heal skill. So no you don’t need to use shelter.

/thread

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

brannigan.9831:

The guardian that won the North American TOL used healing breeze as his heal skill. So no you don’t need to use shelter.

/thread

Indeed. Healing Breeze is one of (if not the most) underrated abilities in the game imo.
If you ask me, it’s what makes healer guardians decent.

Fashion Mage.3712:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

brannigan.9831:

The guardian that won the North American TOL used healing breeze as his heal skill. So no you don’t need to use shelter.

/thread

Indeed. Healing Breeze is one of (if not the most) underrated abilities in the game imo.
If you ask me, it’s what makes healer guardians decent.

Yeah its awesome.

I believe the reason/s why its underrated is because the tooltip errors. Initially healing breeze sucked, then they changed it to have a wider cone. No one cared.

Then I believe they changed so it healed allies for a lot….but the tooltip never reflected this. So no one who didn’t see Tarsius healing chart probably didn’t know how much it healed for.

The recent change which is the biggest makes the skill really good. Its definitely the heal to use if you are cleric and in a group. A 7k ally heal on a 40sec cd is HUGE. The biggest ally heal in the game afaik.

Edit: Found the series of changes to healing breeze:

Feb 26, 2013:

• Healing Breeze: Angle of this ability has been increased so that allies are easier to hit.

Oct 15, 2013:

• Healing Breeze: Doubled the base heal when healing allies. Scaling from healing power has been increased from 20% to 40% when healing allies.

Apr 15, 2014:

• Healing Breeze: This skill has been rescaled so that the guardian receives 50% of the heal up front, and the remaining healing is distributed over 5 ticks to the caster and up to 5 allies in the cone’s radius.

It took three balance passes on the skill to make it a real option to the other heals available.

Aza.2105:

Then I believe they changed it heal allies for a lot….but the tooltip never reflected this. So no one who didn’t see Tarsius healing chart probably didn’t know how much it healed for.

Heh, I hadn’t even updated it for the Apr15th patch until you reminded me. thanks!

The numbers should be correct now: Group healing per minute: 52k with 1k healing power or 45k with 0 HP – nothing to be laughed at really.

Also, one thing I never added was Shelter + Might of the Protector + AH which can increase Shelter’s healing potential quite substantially if you time it right.

Tarsius.3170:

Aza.2105:

Then I believe they changed it heal allies for a lot….but the tooltip never reflected this. So no one who didn’t see Tarsius healing chart probably didn’t know how much it healed for.

Heh, I hadn’t even updated it for the Apr15th patch until you reminded me. thanks!

The numbers should be correct now: Group healing per minute: 52k with 1k healing power or 45k with 0 HP – nothing to be laughed at really.

Also, one thing I never added was Shelter + Might of the Protector + AH which can increase Shelter’s healing potential quite substantially if you time it right.

Nice!

That chart should be made a sticky.

Nono, listen to me. I got Dolyak Finisher, I know best.

Use whatever heal you want.

Attachment for proof, because I’m pro and all that.

3 guardians ? wtf?

One for every game mode I guess. They are also trivial to level.

trivial to level? i spilled blood to get my 2nd character to 80 ……………………..

i can’t bring myself to level a 3rd. it just feels so mind numbing

Azure.8670:

You need more class selection and dyes

No.

she’s pretty pretty

What are the armor skins anyways?

Chaotic.9742:

Keksmuffin.1450:

Chaotic.9742:

Keksmuffin.1450:

Chaotic.9742:

Not to be rude or anything. But you’re on your soapbox preaching like you’re top guard world and honestly, I’ve never seen your name before now.

On to the matter at hand – SoR is situational. Simple as that. Remember around release when SoR was the meta heal? I sure do. Then the transition to shelter happened but a few still stuck with SoR for a bit longer. I mean, even now people run healing breeze recently so dont try to preach about shelter being the only viable choice.

k

K.
I’ve been rank 3 high. My kittens just as big as yours but I don’t have to flaunt it and yell “everybody look at me and do as I say or you’re bad.”

Edit: cant type

k

edit: you do realize that you’re from na and i’m from eu?

K.

You do realize that doesn’t justify you to act like you’re such an elite and everyone needs to do what you sayings they are absolutely wrong if they oppose

LOL EU SO GOOD — that is why 55 HP monks lost 2-1 to Apex
#EUSWAG #EUTRASH #EUkitten

dont bother bullet, useless to discuss with hotjoin hero/pve-ers:D everything you say( even with 3000+ pvp games) will be wrong in here:)

personally i prefer signet, i always spec for faster recharge so the recharge is similar to shelter (2 seconds longer), it has a pretty nice passive, shelter has no passive, it has a faster cast time than shelter and heals almost twice as much.
plus guardians are the masters of block skills, pop aegis if you think someone is going to interrupt it.

i’m not a fan of the “play like me or you’re playing wrong!” post btw.

Agree 100% but shouldn’t have posted on the class forums. Only casuals peruse these parts. They could give a crap about pvp. It’s fine to get salty when a guard is not using shelter but this is the wrong crowd to preach to.
Oh and abyss and celestial are the only dyes one needs, rest are obsolete. #youshouldknowdisbynow.

Keksmuffin.1450:

Chaotic.9742:

Not to be rude or anything. But you’re on your soapbox preaching like you’re top guard world and honestly, I’ve never seen your name before now.

On to the matter at hand – SoR is situational. Simple as that. Remember around release when SoR was the meta heal? I sure do. Then the transition to shelter happened but a few still stuck with SoR for a bit longer. I mean, even now people run healing breeze recently so dont try to preach about shelter being the only viable choice.

k

While I agree that shelter is better than SoR keksmuffin, I must say I too have never heard of you =( I think its because like 30 people play spvp

shelter is pretty much impossible to interrupt, gives you a lot of blocks and does not require you to put 30 points in valor with signet specific traits to be decent.
So do you even guard bro!

Teckos.1305:

shelter is pretty much impossible to interrupt, gives you a lot of blocks and does not require you to put 30 points in valor with signet specific traits to be decent.
So do you even guard bro!

There is enough wrong with this that im not sure if you are just a troll or not…

Wow, the bashing and the crashing and the mashing.
Intense PvP here, much damages. Egos flying everywhere.
This could be a bit more civil.

We can’t see things like “No, I don’t agree with your statement. I find Signet of Resolve to be better for my play style. Here is my setup and gear and preferred game mode amongst PvE/WvW/PvP. I have tried both amply in Pv??? and from my experience I find it to be the most effective. Here are some tips to help you pull off a SoR heal to the maximum benefit (eg without poison). While I agree that Shelter may have its uses, I will agree to disagree.”

Bullet Punch is a EU player who has run offensive Guardian setups since he first played. Although during my time in Desolation I didn’t have any direct contact with him, he’s fairly active in the dueling servers and also in team tournaments (which you can watch online easily).

It is a shared common knowledge amongst sPvP regulars that Shelter is by far the better heal in that game mode, because of the 2 main specs that these Guardians are built for: Bunker (in Clerics) and Triple Meditation (Zerker). Both have health below 16k as of the current patch (bunker can be run with Soldiers or Celestial, but have less sustain). Disregarding the variations, there are a few reasons SoR is not optimal in these builds:
1. Low health threshold for SoR. To let SoR do its work, you need to have a health deficit of ~8k to be optimal. For Guardians, it is a dangerous health level, because glass cannon roamers such as D/P Thief can instantly spike a Guardian down.
2. More interruptible. An interrupted SoR with 4s CD while bunkering a mid point vs smart players at around 7k health means almost certain death. Sure, you can protect it with a stability, but that’s one less stability for a stomp. With PvP, the more CDs you can save, the better, because in a teamfight even something coming off CD could turn the fight in your favour. Also, with Shelter you won’t risk getting poisoned by players looking for that huge signet animation and have to waste a shout, or worse two to go through cover condi like sig of spite, or being slow and reducing SoR heal by 33%.
3. Awkward trait placement and long CD. For bunkers it is 01661 and for trip med it is either 26600 06611 21614 or even 01616. For these builds to be optimal, it is not recommended to take signet CD because you can’t really justify that when you lose AH or Pure of Voice/Inner Fire or Powerful Blades or Radiant Fire. Okay, maybe you can do that on Trip Med. But you are paper, and waiting until 6k health to heal is absolute suicide vs good thieves who are adept at bursting low targets. Long CD of 40 seconds: if you are dying and heal is 10 seconds away, dead is dead. Maybe you can stall 30, or even 40 in a big fight. But lower allows more clutch plays.
4. Heal potential. SoR looks delicious with its huge heal and a condi remove, great. But you can be damaged while healing. Shelter scales with the number of attacks it blocks and if you block a S/D Ele or D/P Thief or hambow or burst guard main combo, you just healed for 5k + 10k potential damage. This is even more apparent when multiple enemies focus you. In the same situation, SoR might not even go off (corrupt boon, bountiful theft + sleight of hand, mines, shattered concentration) and you’ll eat the whole burst and possibly die.

This might not be comprehensive and it is of course, only my experience and opinions. But I understand where Bullet is coming from.

Hope people can contribute to the discussion of the skill.

Ralkuth.1456:

Hope people can contribute to the discussion of the skill.

I think the issue is that most replies have been focused on just a single game mode or play style rather than the full picture.

The issue I had with the OP’s assertion was it was basically making a blanket statement across all game modes ( PvP, PvE, WvW ) all of which are very different and have multiple builds and roles ( with some modes having more, other modes having less )

I don’t think anyone has actually said that shelter isn’t the best guardian heal. Most guards will agree it’s incredibly strong. The main point is that it’s not the best heal in 100% of cases, and there are several posts which lay out exactly what those cases are.

The more acerbic posts tend to defend views about just a single game mode. For instance “Shelter is the only viable heal for tPvP” which is undoubtedly 98% true. But that’s just one element of Guild Wars 2

I will say that my own experience agrees with Bullet in a PvP setting.

However, I don’t think this mode of advocacy works well in a population where a player’s own belief is held in a high regard due to accumulated experience and where him/herself is not ready for persuasion.

Guardian being a welcomed and accessible class that is inherently forgiving with builds in many game modes means that it does have a lot of players with large build diversity and utility choices (which they vigorously defend).

I’ll just take what Bullet has to say on the matter and think on it and maybe learn something. No need to shiet blood or pop an artery over this guys. If he sounds overbearing, just shrug/give it a try and move on.

Trying to change other people’s opinion is pointless anyway.

“Some who have read the book, or at any rate have reviewed it, have found it boring, absurd, or contemptible, and I have no cause to complain, since I have similar opinions of their works, or of the kinds of writing that they evidently prefer.”
- J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

Ralkuth.1456:

Wow, the bashing and the crashing and the mashing.
Intense PvP here, much damages. Egos flying everywhere. This could be a bit more civil.
-snip-

Hope people can contribute to the discussion of the skill.

What a well thought out post, Ralkuth. I think if that was the OP instead of simply bashing SoR, this may be a better conversation. Most people are arguing against the original poster himself and his attitude and not about shelter/SoR.

It creates a sense of hostility that makes people defend what they’ve been using all this time, instead of giving them solid information to make a better decision. No one wants to be told how to play, especially when it’s in a condescending tone.

I wasn’t sure whether it was true, but after testing it seems that Shelter goes on full cooldown if you cancel it while using or if you get interrupted, whereas SoR will only suffer for the regular interrupt duration. Being interrupted while channeling Shelter can be rare, but against skilled opponents such as a Necro who has more than 2 options to interrupt you, Shelter may not be your best choice. In other words, as SoR shows a floating icon upon channeling, Shelter envelops you in a huge blue shield and blocks all attacks; so can be recognised by a skillful eye just the same. The foe’s counterplay, however, can put you in a much more dramatic position than what you would suffer for SoR.

Edit: I understand this may be a little over the top, and the “counterplay” against Shelter can be too few overall that its almost theoretical. But since we are comparing the two skills, I thought – theoretical or not – situations where Shelter is not “%100 better than SoR” as OP suggests can be discussed. Who knows, maybe you really have competed against such skillful opponents and you were left with 30 seconds of cooldown without actually healing. Cheers.

hehk.8705:

Chaotic.9742:

Keksmuffin.1450:

Chaotic.9742:

Keksmuffin.1450:

Chaotic.9742:

Not to be rude or anything. But you’re on your soapbox preaching like you’re top guard world and honestly, I’ve never seen your name before now.

On to the matter at hand – SoR is situational. Simple as that. Remember around release when SoR was the meta heal? I sure do. Then the transition to shelter happened but a few still stuck with SoR for a bit longer. I mean, even now people run healing breeze recently so dont try to preach about shelter being the only viable choice.

k

K.
I’ve been rank 3 high. My kittens just as big as yours but I don’t have to flaunt it and yell “everybody look at me and do as I say or you’re bad.”

Edit: cant type

k

edit: you do realize that you’re from na and i’m from eu?

K.

You do realize that doesn’t justify you to act like you’re such an elite and everyone needs to do what you sayings they are absolutely wrong if they oppose

LOL EU SO GOOD — that is why 55 HP monks lost 2-1 to Apex
#EUSWAG #EUTRASH #EUkitten

#rekt

Keksmuffin.1450:

Chaotic.9742:

Not to be rude or anything. But you’re on your soapbox preaching like you’re top guard world and honestly, I’ve never seen your name before now.

On to the matter at hand – SoR is situational. Simple as that. Remember around release when SoR was the meta heal? I sure do. Then the transition to shelter happened but a few still stuck with SoR for a bit longer. I mean, even now people run healing breeze recently so dont try to preach about shelter being the only viable choice.

k

Keksmuffin.1450:

This game has been out for almost 2 years and I still see way too many people running arround with Signet of Resolve. While it might be the best choice when you look at it as somebody who just started the game or is still learning because the tooltip says it would heal for more than Shelter, it is actually much worse in almost every PvP and WvW and in most PvE situations.

The only times Signet of Resolve is better than Shelter are if you don’t know how to use the block because you’re fighting something you don’t know or there is just nothing to block (unblockable attacks from bosses, debuffs).

Shelter is the better heal in most PvE situations, you can block some 1 shots from bosses, you can get it through without trashmobs killing you during the cast, it is pretty hard NOT to block 4k damage or more as a glasscannon.

This applies even more to PvP; blocking stuff like Earthshaker, Mind Wreck, Signet of Spite or other avoidable stuff with Shelter means avoiding a lot of damage, saving a dodge while keeping the point contested and healing up. On top of that thieves and mesmers could easily interupt Signet of Resolve since it has a really obvious animation and people can see the Signet being on your bar. Shelter can only get interupted by own mistakes (running into a Line of Warding or similar stuff) and some unblockable stuff (Fear Me, traited Reaper’s Mark or Basilisk Venom with Larcenous Strike). This applies to both, DPS and Bunker Guard.

tl;dr: Signet of Resolve makes you look stupid. Use Shelter. Thank you.

~Somebody who actually has experience on Guardian

Look at this rank
Isn’t it neat?
Wouldn’t you think my life is complete?
Wouldn’t you think I’m the guy
The guy who has everything?
Look at this account
Treasures untold
How many achievements can one account hold?
Looking around here you think
Sure, he’s got everything
I’ve got CM and Orian boxes a-plenty
I’ve got exotic and ascended galore
You want WvW boosters?
I’ve got twenty!
But who cares?
No big deal
I want more!!!!!!!!!
I wanna be where the elitists are
I wanna see
Wanna see ‘em pawning’
Walkin’ around on those
Whad’ya call ‘em?
Oh – noobs
Switchin’ your builds you don’t get too far
Metas are required for playin’, winin’
Strollin’ along down a
What’s those words again?
reward track
Up where they walk
Up where they pawn
Up where they play all day in the (virtual) sun
Roamin’ all free
Wish I could be
Part of that world
What would I give
If I could live
With out these gibs?
What would I pay
To spend a day
havin fun while I play…
Betcha on hand
we’d understand
Bet they don’t reprimand their new players
Bright young newbies
Elites sick o’ lowbies’
Ready to stand
And I’m ready to know what the try hards know
Ask ‘em my questions
And get some answers
What’s a nuke build and why does it
What’s the word? Burn?
When’s it my turn?
Wouldn’t I love
Love to explore those ranks up above?
Out of glory
Wish I could be
Part of that world

1. Shelter can be interrupted.
2. But a well-timed shelter can block a condi-burst from a condi engi and allow the guard to walk away unscathed.
3. Shelter is indispensable in Arah and fractals. It is your personal block, you can waste it on yourself.
4. I cringed whenever I see a SoR on my pug guard. 99% of the time that guard never uses condi cleanse on the group anyways. 100% of the time he uses aegis selfishly.
5. With the current PvE meta, Shelter has become much more used, even in the Volcanic Fractal now.

My two cents.

@OP: I’m impressed with your experience with the class in both PvP and PvE.

or, you know, no.

I hardly ever have to pop a heal, and when I do, I like it to be big. I have so many blocks and ways of avoiding dmg, shelter is just not needed most of the time, and I prefer the passive condition removal of the signet.

OF course I’m not saying my way is best, but it works for me. then again, I’m not trying to come off as an arrogant kitten like the op does either.

I’ll run shelter when I think it necessary, but signet is my go to heal.

then you obviously dont play top tier spvp:)

Slayer.4238:

Look at this rank
Isn’t it neat?
Wouldn’t you think my life is complete?
Wouldn’t you think I’m the guy
The guy who has everything?
Look at this account
Treasures untold
How many achievements can one account hold?
Looking around here you think
Sure, he’s got everything
I’ve got CM and Orian boxes a-plenty
I’ve got exotic and ascended galore
You want WvW boosters?
I’ve got twenty!
But who cares?
No big deal
I want more!!!!!!!!!
I wanna be where the elitists are
I wanna see
Wanna see ‘em pawning’
Walkin’ around on those
Whad’ya call ‘em?
Oh – noobs
Switchin’ your builds you don’t get too far
Metas are required for playin’, winin’
Strollin’ along down a
What’s those words again?
reward track
Up where they walk
Up where they pawn
Up where they play all day in the (virtual) sun
Roamin’ all free
Wish I could be
Part of that world
What would I give
If I could live
With out these gibs?
What would I pay
To spend a day
havin fun while I play…
Betcha on hand
we’d understand
Bet they don’t reprimand their new players
Bright young newbies
Elites sick o’ lowbies’
Ready to stand
And I’m ready to know what the try hards know
Ask ‘em my questions
And get some answers
What’s a nuke build and why does it
What’s the word? Burn?
When’s it my turn?
Wouldn’t I love
Love to explore those ranks up above?
Out of glory
Wish I could be
Part of that world

LOL!

whenever I see a guard going shelter I just don’t use any of my 2-5 keys and then his block function becomes pointless. With shelter you only really mitigate large bursts against bad players who repeatedly attack you despite the obvious animation, not realising they are probably buffing the guard or damaging themselves in some way by doing it….

It really does depend on the build; for example, using shelter against a warrior or necro is just asking for pain. Signet of resolve is by far the better option against condition based builds.

You get pretty much the same effect using shield of wrath at the same time as SoR, you can also kite your enemy for a few seconds while healing. Either way you look at it, SoR is the better option unless the enemy team is full of thieves.

edit: looking at the image in your original post, I can tell that you run as a zerker guardian. Yes, shelter is the better option for zerk but SoR is much much better for bunker.

TrOtskY.5927:

whenever I see a guard going shelter I just don’t use any of my 2-5 keys and then his block function becomes pointless. With shelter you only really mitigate large bursts against bad players who repeatedly attack you despite the obvious animation, not realising they are probably buffing the guard or damaging themselves in some way by doing it….

[offtopic]
Like those rangers that die atacking WoR and thiefs killed by rateliation :|