Guild Wars 2

This has been bugging me for awhile now. Every other Signet has a niche it fills with different builds.

Then you have Wrath. Grants you increased condition damage… Seriously Anet, Guardians have ONE reliable condition damage, Burning. Why would you make a Signet for that?!

I propose you change it to, improves critical chance. Or something else if you guys have a better idea.

I think it should add 25% movement speed! (joking) seriously though it is pretty useless i agree i think it should add critical chance

imagangsta.1349:

I think it should add 25% movement speed! (joking)

Well, why not?

Just because the only condition we have is burning doesn’t mean condition damage is worthless. If played right you can have nearly constant burning on you target.

And burning is the highest damage condition in the game

Just saying….

Well, since burning doesn’t stack intensity like bleeds, chances are your burns will be overriden by direct damage guard\ele\engi. So it’s not that good unless you have a specific party composition.

Voj+sword practically made for thus signet or vice versa. You dont need to worry about duration as you activate on hits. Though 10% of highest con to burn dmg is only 70

Quite worthless for short fights.

Vitu.3580:

Just because the only condition we have is burning doesn’t mean condition damage is worthless. If played right you can have nearly constant burning on you target.

And burning is the highest damage condition in the game

Just saying….

Burn is worth about 5 stacks of bleed. Bleed however scales better with condition damage and quickly eclipses it. Burning sucks.

foofad.5162:

Vitu.3580:

Just because the only condition we have is burning doesn’t mean condition damage is worthless. If played right you can have nearly constant burning on you target.

And burning is the highest damage condition in the game

Just saying….

Burn is worth about 5 stacks of bleed. Bleed however scales better with condition damage and quickly eclipses it. Burning sucks.

This is pretty much correct. Burning isn’t worth the effort you put in to get effectiveness out of it either. The passive we get from Justice is just fine for damage, dedicating more is just losing out on direct damage.

Also, adding 100 condition damage barely changes the damage you deal with burning at lv 80.

It adds 25 damage per 100 condition damage, to be specific. Bleeds add 5 damage per 100 condition damage, and you might think “but that’s less!” And you’d be right. But that’s per stack. So at 5 stacks, that’s 25 per 100. Six stacks is 30 per 100, and so on up to 25 (which warriors can hit, albeit briefly) which is 125 damage per 100 condition damage. Hence, Bleed scales better the more bleeds you apply.

To be fair though: Signet of Wrath’s Immobilize at 1200 range is really awesome for chasing people down in WvW to finish them off. Beyond that…

I don’t have a problem with the active, that can stay the same. The passive is just lol…

I just don’t understand what Anet was thinking when they made this Signet.

Harbinger.8637:

I don’t have a problem with the active, that can stay the same. The passive is just lol…

I just don’t understand what Anet was thinking when they made this Signet.

I do. They needed filler.

Harbinger.8637:

I don’t have a problem with the active, that can stay the same. The passive is just lol…

I just don’t understand what Anet was thinking when they made this Signet.

Either they thought conditions would be a lot more prominent than they are.
Or they never meant anyone to build solely for condition damage and instead intended it to compliment other builds and direct damage.

I am leaning on the latter personally.

This signet does fill a niche … it’s for burning builds. Anet made a dedicated signet for that because burning is a unique and interesting approach for Guardians with lots of support. Could it be better? I think so, but I don’t think it’s made better by abandoning the intent for supporting condition damage. I would make the passive give guardians an ‘edge’ for burning, like applying an AOE cripple that only affects burning mobs.

If you want to talk about nerfing signets due to applicability, have a look at Signet of Mercy ….

Oh look, people actually believe in the signet and condition build on a guardian.

Just like Alarox said, I’m pretty sure it’s a filler and there’s more skills/signets like this in the game that should be tweaked. We can’t expect major overhauls of skills/traits before first expansion, in my opinion.

8 + (4 * Level) + (0.25 * Condition Damage) per second

2.5 + (0.5 * Level) + (0.05 * Condition Damage) per stack per second

Burning is quite a bit better damage wise, however bleeding usually stacks faster.

at 1k condition damage burn ticks for around 700, and bleeds tick for around 100, so you need to maintain 7 stacks of bleeds constantly to maintain the same damage as burning.

If you don’t like wrath stick with Bane. The knockdown is an interrupt and hard CC. I don’t run condition damage on a guardian because its too difficult to get toughness/condition damage (which is the main weakness of condition builds IMO) but I have been seen mace/torch guards do some really nasty things before.

^ Yeah the condition damage increases, but look at how much you’ve just lost in survival or direct damage in getting 1k condition damage and building to get 100% burning duration on a single target, let alone AoE.

Yea the only way for it to be good for AOE is with 30 into virtues to get Permeating Wreath/Supreme Justice. Defenders flame works well with that as well, especially if you have focus offhand and Sanctuary. There is heavy armor thats CD/T/P and then to augment the lack of health you can get carrion accessories. You just don’t hit that hard and its rough to maintain the burning if not done properly. With 30 into virtues it comes down to knowing the right time to hit Virtue of Justice and the wrong time.

Dynnen.6405:

8 + (4 * Level) + (0.25 * Condition Damage) per second

2.5 + (0.5 * Level) + (0.05 * Condition Damage) per stack per second

Burning is quite a bit better damage wise, however bleeding usually stacks faster.

at 1k condition damage burn ticks for around 700, and bleeds tick for around 100, so you need to maintain 7 stacks of bleeds constantly to maintain the same damage as burning.

It scales poorly with condition damage in this way:

With 0 condition damage, 8 stacks of bleed roughly equals burning.

With 500 condition damage, 7 stacks of bleed roughly equals burning.

With 1000 condition damage, 6 stacks of bleed roughly equals burning.

That’s what I’m talking about. The more condition damage the two parties have, the burner and the bleeder, the more bleeding is favored. Burning is slowly outpaced in a dedicated condition build.

Furthermore, sources of Guardian burning are typically very short in duration, on the order of a couple of seconds, to five seconds from Justice. Maintaining burning can be a challenge, moreso than maintaining bleeds for any kind of dedicated bleeding build on say a Thief or a Warrior or what have you. Most classes that can bleed, can do so for anywhere from 3-10 seconds at a stretch, which means that the total damage done over the course of the condition is also higher. When you add all of these factors, Burning is a very lackluster condition to gear condition damage for.

I think the argument that burning is lackluster or not is moot. Either way, it’s not a reason to call for ideas to nerf the things that support burning in the Guardian toolset. SoW could be better but I don’t think it should be different.

I agree that many of the stats on things of this sort are a lot of filler. Adding more CD or whatever isn’t really that original.

Talking about speed almost all classes have some trait or pasive buff that grants x% of speed why not us.

Like my hp i hate it.

Wrath Active = Crit Rate / Damage bonus would be much more preferable.
I’d take it if it’s the case.
We have Power Signet but not Precision.
We have Damage Reduction but not Swiftness.

redknight.8036:

Wrath Active = Crit Rate / Damage bonus would be much more preferable.
I’d take it if it’s the case.
We have Power Signet but not Precision.
We have Damage Reduction but not Swiftness.

You are heavy armor user, check out the game and see which classes get speed signet and what gear do they wear. It would be stupid to have a guardian run as fast as a thief…seriously, be realistic guys.

Being a defensive class, 10% damage reduction makes more sense than 10/25% run speed.

I for one think that ANet made a great job with the guardian. I enjoy playing it as I’ve played dagger/tank in most MMOs I really find myself in the guardian/thief. Keeping in mind their manifesto by getting rid of holy trinity, I don’t think we need more boosts nor nerfs.

Can’t wait for an expansion to see what ANet has in store for us and of course the other classes.

I do agree that a perma run speed wouldn’t be a good choice. That’s one of the counters to a Guardian. You have to kite to beat a Guardian, no class but another Guard or a well played Warrior can stand toe to toe in a melee fight. So speed imo would be op.

The main argument here is how little +90 condition damage does. It’s pointless. I have yet to see anyone make a viable condition dmg build for PvP.

It honestly is not that bad of a signet considering it gives a 3 sec immobilize on a 1200 range, and does passively increase our… passive damage. Also when traited it could be on a 24 sec cooldown and also remove a condition on use. However because of the way that condition damage scales it is pretty underwhelming and could be helped some.

I have tried every single spec that has been posted on this site, because condiotion damage is “bad” but you know what? My condition damage spec is the only one I have no problem either Soloing champions or Killing People in Spvp.

Anyway, the signet of wrath is useless there no way to be able to fit in a condtion damage build if you want to keep up burning all the time. better to keep burning up than getting a insignificant amount of extra damage from the signet.

Alarox.4590:

^ Yeah the condition damage increases, but look at how much you’ve just lost in survival or direct damage in getting 1k condition damage and building to get 100% burning duration on a single target, let alone AoE.

The only thing you really miss with my spec is the toughness, Direct damage you only really see it when you are in a group since your burning might be behinds an elementalist or engineer.

You dont really need to sacrifice that much to get pretty significant condition damage. The build in my sig has around 750 condition damage and does not sacrifice too much in terms of raw power, and also has no change at all with my survivablity compared to my non-condition damage build. The issue is that burning is our ONLY damage condition, where as if we had some type of bleed or confusion the signet would be more useful.

While I never run it for the condition damage (or in pve), with scepter 3 the immobilize can set you up for some great burst. With Inscribed Removal you also have the option to use it as condition removal while waiting for other CDs. It fills it’s niche in roles, but personally, I’ll use it on cooldown as control, rather than for the condition damage.

Edit: corrected trait name from Purity to Inscribed Removal