Guild Wars 2

Its true that revs outshine guards? If its true guards are going to be the next bottom tier class?

No.

Revenants do some things better than guardian, and guardians do some things better than revenant. Revenant’s balance is also a bit rough right now on the side of being a little too powerful.

Guardian is middle tiered now, if you equip DH then it’s going down.

Support Guardians will always have amazing group condi clear with quickness stomps/rezzs

However….

That is the only reason I would play a bunker Guard over Rev. Other then that I think Guardian is garbage.

Being frustrated in the direction Guardian is heading, Im taking all my ascended gear from my Guard and putting it on my Rev.

Wont even think twice about it.

Greek.4396:

Being frustrated in the direction Guardian is heading, Im taking all my ascended gear from my Guard and putting it on my Rev.

Please do. Because that kind of movement in the playerbase is easily tracked by the metrics and the best ammunition imaginable at the Balance Team meeting that Revenant is over-incentivized and that Guard finally needs to be looked at without the “its in a good place” noose around it’s neck. Because a couple of the guard’s less used utility lines really need to have that kind of attention.

Guard is still amazing.

Killyox.3950:

Guard is still amazing.

Only until Revenants arrives, then i’m not so sure.

Guardian offers stability, condition clear, quickness and reliable aoe heals.
Herald offers none of these, don’t be too quick to say it replaces guardian as a whole.

Wandelaar.3746:

Guardian offers stability, condition clear, quickness and reliable aoe heals.
Herald offers none of these, don’t be too quick to say it replaces guardian as a whole.

Revenant have stability on dodge, condition cleanse (sort of), very good dmg and awesome SHIELD SKILLS.

Talking about offering these things aoe to others, rev’s stab, condi cleanse and shield 5 only benefit themselves.

Here a quick list of all the aoe that the revenant can apply to the party:

Damage Reduction:
Rite of the Great Dwarf (Legendary Dwarf Stance)

Healing:
Ventari’s Will (Legendary Centaur Stance)
Purifying Essence (Legendary Centaur Stance)
Natural Harmony (Legendary Centaur Stance)
Energy Expulsion (Legendary Centaur Stance)
Rejuvenating Assault (Staff 1 Last Chain Skill)
Renewing Wave (Staff 4)
Envoy of Exuberance (Shield 4)

AOE Stun Breaker
Rite of the Great Dwarf (Legendary Dwarf Stance)
Harmonize Continuity (Herald Trait)

Condi Cleanse:
Pain Absorption (Legendary Demon Stance)
Purifying Essence (Legendary Centaur Stance)
Renewing Wave (Staff 4)
Eluding Nullification (Salvation Trait)

Increase Healing Effect:
Invoking Harmony (Salvation Trait)
Serene Rejuvenation (Salvation Trait)

Boon Duration:
Facet of Nature (Legendary Dragon Stance)

Regeneration:
One with Nature (Legendary Dragon Stance)
Facet of Light (Legendary Dragon Stance)
Nourishing Roots (Salvation Trait)
Tranquil Benediction (Salvation Trait)

Might
One with Nature (Legendary Dragon Stance)
Facet of Strength (Legendary Dragon Stance)
Shared Empowerment (Herald Trait)

Fury
One with Nature (Legendary Dragon Stance)
Facet of Darkness (Legendary Dragon Stance)

Swiftness:
One with Nature (Legendary Dragon Stance)
Facet of Elements (Legendary Dragon Stance)
Tranquil Benediction (Salvation Trait)

Protection:
One with Nature (Legendary Dragon Stance)
Facet of Chaos (Legendary Dragon Stance)
Bolster Fortifications (Herald Trait)
Envoy of Exuberance (Shield 4)

Quickness
Chaotic Release (Legendary Dragon Stance)

Resistance
Pain Absorption (Legendary Demon Stance)

Stability
Inspiring Reinforcement (Legendary Dwarf Stance)

Pd: Added Rite of the Great Dwarf to Aoe Stun Breaker

Nike.2631:

Greek.4396:

Being frustrated in the direction Guardian is heading, Im taking all my ascended gear from my Guard and putting it on my Rev.

Please do. Because that kind of movement in the playerbase is easily tracked by the metrics and the best ammunition imaginable at the Balance Team meeting that Revenant is over-incentivized and that Guard finally needs to be looked at without the “its in a good place” noose around it’s neck. Because a couple of the guard’s less used utility lines really need to have that kind of attention.

I wholeheartedly agree, because if they don’t want subjective measures, one can give them a more objective measure.

Avit.3165:

Killyox.3950:

Guard is still amazing.

Only until Revenants arrives, then i’m not so sure.

Still not sure how Rev will replace Guards.. or any class for that matter.

They basically got a 1/3rd of Wars, Necros, Guards and smashed them together. The Rev will not replace any of these classes (well, maybe war).

I’ll be impressed with the Rev when I start seeing Revs actually perform well. Didn’t see any last BWE. That said, the class improved a lot.

Revenant is the true guardian, because when you play it, you really feel like one…

Rev has only two sources of stability over all within the whole class. Only Jalis applies stability to allies and its really bad at 1s. Our condi clear options are limited as well.

I don’t get why people do these comparisons without doing research. You shouldn’t be comparing two really different aspects in the first place but meh.

Guard can aoe heal, a lot of boons, quickness, and can be pretty tanky.
Rev has aoe boons on herald, healing on Ventari, and one aoe stab on Jalis.

Rev has to give up options to be good at certain stuff while not having any access to other things. Guard can provide a wide array of stuff within its support builds.

Most of revs builds are for dmg atm because its a new class and people haven’t explored much of the combos. Where are guards are still mostly known for support and their dmg builds limited.

Rev may have some aspects from classes but it isn’t better at those aspects in any way.

Nike.2631:

Greek.4396:

Being frustrated in the direction Guardian is heading, Im taking all my ascended gear from my Guard and putting it on my Rev.

Please do. Because that kind of movement in the playerbase is easily tracked by the metrics and the best ammunition imaginable at the Balance Team meeting that Revenant is over-incentivized and that Guard finally needs to be looked at without the “its in a good place” noose around it’s neck. Because a couple of the guard’s less used utility lines really need to have that kind of attention.

There is actually a Balance Team for the game? I believe some of the PvP players would like to get a hold of them so they can have a chat. I think most people put that team right up there with the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny.

As for loosing numbers, a WHOLE LOT of people would need to move from Guardian to Revenant before it became noticeable. Guardian is the second-most played profession from every poll and survey I have ever seen (only Warrior is higher) and I think a lot of people will move from other professions to Revenant and not just from Guardian.

The optimist in me does hope that the whole, “in a good place” mantra will die in a fire at some point though as I do agree that the Guardian could use some more attention in both utility and trait lines.

Thanks.

As it stands right now I can out party heal my Guardian with a Necro, Warrior, Elementalist, Mesmer and Engineer, so a Rev out-healing my Guardian is nothing new.

Tungsten Monarch.6058:

As it stands right now I can out party heal my Guardian with a Necro, Warrior, Elementalist, Mesmer and Engineer, so a Rev out-healing my Guardian is nothing new.

You talking pvp right?

But on a PVE note:

Guardian’s blocks, reflects, team stability, blinds, quickness and conditon removal all in 1 meta build is freaking nuts. You literally can have everything I just mentioned at the same time in the current meta build.

Revenant in some ways will be better then a guardian, that is true. But that’s the point of different classes. The opposite applies where guardian will be better then revenant in some ways too.

It will be very very difficult to make a guard not good, considering even without any elite specs they can group condi cleanse,buff, reflect and apply aoe quickness every 30 seconds. Guards have always been welcome in just about any group, I highly doubt that will ever change.

The only 3 things the guardian really does better then the rev is

1: AOE stability
2: AOE condi cleanse
3: Projectile reflects

The rev however does the following better then guardians

1: AOE might stacking
2: AOE fury
3: AOE swiftness
4: AOE protection
5: AOE regeneration
6: Condi damage
7: Vulnerability stacking
8: Crowd control

So unless the new raids have a ton of conditions & projectile attacks I’d much rather take a rev then a guardian.
As for PvP and WvW, guardians will still have a place. It will be less of one though given the sheer amount of bruiser specs out there.

You are acting like the revenant can do ALL of those things at the same time. Yea the rev can give more might if he ONLY focuses on it. Or yes he can give better protection if he ONLY focuses on that. Where as a guardian can give protection, aoe stability, aoe condi cleanse and reflect all at the same time. The revenant has more ability to play different roles I completely agree but I don’t think it by any means overshadows what a guardian can do. I will be playing revenant and guardian because I think both of them will be wanted in just about any group. I personally don’t think one is “better” then the other because its hard to compare when they play different roles.

Although I should mention if you are only talking about elite specializations then yes I agree guardian is junk. Cause traps and lb at this point are just….bad..

From PvE perspective:
Guards>Rev
Cause guards can multitask, rev not.
I tested rev in the beta, and I almost never switch to buffing “mode”, because our meta is still dmg dmg dmg so shiro mode was up all the time. There is enough other class to provide might and fury, so I didn’t bother switching, it was more a waste of time.
Protection and reg are not always needed.
All I did was, activate dat quickness, and press 1111111111 till everything drops lol.
Damage was high though, but it is more constant high dmg than burst damage with guards.

Kronos.2560:

You are acting like the revenant can do ALL of those things at the same time. Yea the rev can give more might if he ONLY focuses on it. Or yes he can give better protection if he ONLY focuses on that. Where as a guardian can give protection, aoe stability, aoe condi cleanse and reflect all at the same time. The revenant has more ability to play different roles I completely agree but I don’t think it by any means overshadows what a guardian can do. I will be playing revenant and guardian because I think both of them will be wanted in just about any group. I personally don’t think one is “better” then the other because its hard to compare when they play different roles.

And the funny thing is there is already a class that easily spits out AOE might, protection, fury, aoe cleanse, regen, and fury while lounging around.

Stuff like AOE regen is so trivial given by many random builds that they are hardly relevant anyways.

ArchonWing.9480:

And the funny thing is there is a class that easily spits out AOE might, protection, fury, might, aoe cleanse, regen, and fury while lounging around.

“You said might twice.”
“I like might.”

Sorry, having a Blazing Saddles moment .

We’re not at 25 stacks yet. Maybe I need to say it again.

i havent seen any notes, or feedback from the rev forum, but what are rev stats against guardian and warrior? does rev have more natural tankyness? damage, etc

Mirrodin.8729:

i havent seen any notes, or feedback from the rev forum, but what are rev stats against guardian and warrior? does rev have more natural tankyness? damage, etc

Rev is between Guard and Warrior in HP, but it has Ele diversity with the Legends which means it can do anything, the DPS right now is inferior to Guardian but I’m sure they’ll buff it again so it outshines us and we get left behind except for some Fractals and Arah…

Even if rev has better hp pool it is clearly less tanky than guard. He is VEEEEERY squishy to condi and mobility is his key for survive.

gannondorf.7628:

Even if rev has better hp pool it is clearly less tanky than guard. He is VEEEEERY squishy to condi and mobility is his key for survive.

Rev can push out a 100% up-time in resistance with Mallyx which allows them to 1 v 2 much better then a Guard would.

Rev also has nice dmg reduction through their traits and can maintain a huge up time in protection. Rev also has their Crystal Hibernation buffed (no break bar anymore) with a 20 second cool down on their shield

Their Ventari tablet is buffed with all their utilities instant, have a 3 condi cleanse on a 5 second cooldown, plus more condi cleanses with their staff and condi dmg mitigation through their other stances.

Are they more tankier then Guards?
It is still hard to tell but to say they are “clearly” less tanky and squeeeshy to condis is not true at all.

Well actually you have to take one legend to heal or condi cleanse or one to resist on conditions taking a legend plot. You can take Mallyx over Shiro but you don’t have mobility. You can take ventari over glint and have condi clean and healing but you can’t support. Revenant can do a lot of things, they are jacks of all trades. But you can’t do all of them at the same time.

Greek.4396:

gannondorf.7628:

Even if rev has better hp pool it is clearly less tanky than guard. He is VEEEEERY squishy to condi and mobility is his key for survive.

Rev can push out a 100% up-time in resistance with Mallyx which allows them to 1 v 2 much better then a Guard would.

Rev also has nice dmg reduction through their traits and can maintain a huge up time in protection. Rev also has their Crystal Hibernation buffed (no break bar anymore) with a 20 second cool down on their shield

Their Ventari tablet is buffed with all their utilities instant, have a 3 condi cleanse on a 5 second cooldown, plus more condi cleanses with their staff and condi dmg mitigation through their other stances.

Are they more tankier then Guards?
It is still hard to tell but to say they are “clearly” less tanky and squeeeshy to condis is not true at all.

You obviously don’t know very much about the Rev. If you have played with Mallyx at all then you’d know that it by no means gives you immunity to conditions.

You should also know that Ventari is easily the most difficult and annoying legend to use. The heals and condition cleanses are very expensive. We don’t just get 3 conditions cleansed every five seconds automatically. Combine that with the fact that it’s extremely difficult to maneuver the tablet to where it needs to be in this era of mobility and you’ll realise that this is in no way a better option than any condition cleanses the guardian has.

Condi damage mitigation? You mean the 20% reduction in damage from the -7 upkeep hammers that disappear when you go near a wall. Good one.

People seem to think that the revenant can keep up permanent protection but nobody in their right mind would keep up the Glint elite for too long, especially if you have any other upkeeps active (very likely).

Crystal Hibernation: You seem to think that all revs will use this skill every 20 seconds. What you need to know is that a lot of people deem it very risky to use since you cannot move. Again, nobody in their right mind is going to use this every 20 seconds. The energy restriction is also a reasonably large factor.

MESSAGE TO ALL GUARDIANS: If you have to be upset about any profession making you obsolete, go and look at the druid. Every skill they have is a healing skill.

Killyox.3950:

Guard is still amazing.

At least the base specs, yes. Not sword/shield though, even more so bow/traps.

As a side note: “still amazing” and “someone else is even more amazing” are two different things. But ya, we guards should pride ourselves as the only people will still play (or HAVE TO play ) our core specs to retain our effective level LoL.

I played ranked and unranked que in Spvp as a bunker Rev. So pls let me reply to your wall of text.

Demented Yak.6105:

You obviously don’t know very much about the Rev. If you have played with Mallyx at all then you’d know that it by no means gives you immunity to conditions.

You must not know what the Resistance boon does…

Demented Yak.6105:

You should also know that Ventari is easily the most difficult and annoying legend to use. The heals and condition cleanses are very expensive. We don’t just get 3 conditions cleansed every five seconds automatically. Combine that with the fact that it’s extremely difficult to maneuver the tablet to where it needs to be in this era of mobility and you’ll realise that this is in no way a better option than any condition cleanses the guardian has.

Ventari is easy in spvp to manage when your on a point, there is no difficulty at all when bunkering a point with this legend. If you think it is then you need practice and learn how to manage your energy.

Demented Yak.6105:

Condi damage mitigation? You mean the 20% reduction in damage from the -7 upkeep hammers that disappear when you go near a wall. Good one.

Glint Heal and Crystal Hibernation are very strong in mitigating condi damage and condi re-application. Good one : ]

Demented Yak.6105:

People seem to think that the revenant can keep up permanent protection but nobody in their right mind would keep up the Glint elite for too long, especially if you have any other upkeeps active (very likely).

1st I never said permanent protection
2nd its a long uptime with boon duration
3rd you can use ventari heal for on-demand protection not needing to sit in Glint 24/7 when using the herald trait line
4th you can Trait to gain protection when CC’d
5th Facet of Nature active

Demented Yak.6105:

Crystal Hibernation: You seem to think that all revs will use this skill every 20 seconds. What you need to know is that a lot of people deem it very risky to use since you cannot move. Again, nobody in their right mind is going to use this every 20 seconds. The energy restriction is also a reasonably large factor.

Good Revs will time their Crystal Hibernation and manage the cool down. Who cares if you “cannot move” when your bunkering a point.

Also Crystal Hibernation new buff does not prevent point capturing in Spvp

Goes back to enjoying this delicious burger

Revs are pretty awesome at this time. The game play is quite different and refreshing. Like some other peeps ; I’ll be moving my ascended gear over to rev and be on that as guards are broke atm.