Guild Wars 2

I think Torment should have been added to warrior and guardian over thief and mesmer. The former two are kited often and have limited sets of chase-down skills. The later two are already men in a field of boys when it comes to pvp class balance.

I agree, the whole blog post does not sound very great, especially the torment thing. But maybe they also solve our kiting problem in the patch …

… ok, I admit, that joke was pretty bad.

….. seriously? Something that would actually solve one of the biggest issues with guardians, and they give it to thieves and mesmers?

Edit: Sorry, 2 issues. lack of a strong condition build, and enemy mobility reduction.

Bash.7291:

..... seriously? Something that would actually solve one of the biggest issues with guardians, and they give it to thieves and mesmers?

Edit: Sorry, 2 issues. lack of a strong condition build, and enemy mobility reduction.

Sometimes I feel like I am dating my ex-girlfriend when reading Dev Post’s. They get me all hyped up and excited only to let me down in the end.

The logic behind giving mesmers, who already have access to confusion, torment seems beyond me. Torment + Confusion + Clones + Ranged Class = obviously unfair. You’re punishing your enemies for trying to fight you . Thieves too? Not like giving the best mobility class this condition so they can kite even more and laugh at you as your run yourself into the ground is a wise decision.

Feels more like a Necromancer or guardian condition.

juno.1840:

I think Torment should have been added to warrior and guardian over thief and mesmer. The former two are kited often and have limited sets of chase-down skills. The later two are already men in a field of boys when it comes to pvp class balance.

This is what I came to say.
Their decision makes no sense.

Giving it to Mesmer is probably a bad choice.

Confusion + Torment = I can stand there and take damage. Or I can move/fight back and take even more damage!

A good Mesmer is already a pain to beat for a Guard. Oh well, just have to wait until the 25th and see.

While I wouldn’t mind such a thing, it will still be nice to know SOMETHING is out there with the ability to detriment very mobile classes.

Obtena.7952:

While I wouldn’t mind such a thing, it will still be nice to know SOMETHING is out there with the ability to detriment very mobile classes.

I agree, when I first heard of torment, I thought it was to counter act the mobility of some classes/builds.

However, and maybe I dont understand it correctly, it was actually given TO the most mobile classes.

I just hope I am wrong about it, because in principle it actually sounds like a neat condition. However, the execution is what really matters and I suppose we wont see that until its actually in game.

Just a further thought. I’ve spent much time experimenting with CD on Guardian. I’m a firm believer that if we were to get access to another reliable and consistent condition damage effect on top of our burning, it would be ridiculous damage coupled with some very good defensive stats. Now, saying that, it is limited in application (I wouldn’t recommend CDamage for WvW) but for your regular PVE running around stuff, I don’t think there would be any challenge in playing Guardian at all if that were to happen.

it is pretty funny they are deciding to give Torment to thief and mesmer. mesmer already has confusion which sort of forces you to not do anything. now you literally will be standing there, doing nothing. can’t even dodge to not take further damage.

and for thief, well i guess it’s to ensure we won’t chase after them when they start to flee. right?

snideness aside.. will wait for the day of the patch and see how they actually implement these into game.

PLS give torment to sword auto-attack!

Deathmond.7328:

PLS give torment to sword auto-attack!

Good lord no.

The sword isn’t a condi weapon. At all.

Mesmers are getting Torment on Scepter, which on reflection is fine. Anything to cut down the number of crappy shatter mesmers out there.

The problems I see with reflection though; our shout→soldier builds are still going to be #1, and, the classes that really need a mechanic to punish the kiters aren’t getting Torment.

Torment on VoJ or traited into symbols would be nice… and perhaps Sword + Scepter could finally get a symbol? pls?

Sword is the closest thing we have to a condition weapon, second only to torch. Why do you think its autoattack 3rd attack counts as 3 different attacks? Why do you think we reach the best burning uptime with sword/torch? Food for thoughts.

I would like to see that torment could have been added to Guardians instead of Thieves, just to punish the more mobile classes for abusing their mobility on the “too-slow-heavy-butt-” classes who do not have enough mobility to generally handle the super-mobile classes. (I do not mean handling as in beating, but handling as in generally keeping up/somewhat being able to keep a little up in movements without looking like question marks.)

Hope this made a little sense.

Oh, I have an idea, related to the Off-Hand Weapon thread:

Give Guardians an off hand sword option and attach Torment to its #4 or 5!

Movement barb effects are usually for melee characters…no idea why Mesmers would be getting them.

I hope it’s because they are nerfing Confusion and Retaliation into the ground myself, because they just aren’t fair and don’t balance well at all…but we will see.

Wolfheart.1938:

Sword is the closest thing we have to a condition weapon, second only to torch. Why do you think its autoattack 3rd attack counts as 3 different attacks? Why do you think we reach the best burning uptime with sword/torch? Food for thoughts.

Sure, it’s the closest thing to a condi weapon, but that doesn’t make it a condi weapon. The scepter is the closest thing we have to a rifle, it doesn’t make us a warrior.

I’d like to see Torment added to the guardian as a class-level mechanic, not something that is weapon specific. ALL builds, regardless of weapon, have kiting problems. Even Scepter users (who you need to be close to in order to be punishing). So given our huge focus on being in or close to melee range, Torment seems like a natural fit for all builds.

I’m a 1H sword user btw, it’s my main weapon of choice (1Hs+Shield, Hammer). I’d like to be able to apply Torment… just not with an auto attack, because getting that auto-attack chain off is exactly the problem we’re discussing.

The Thief’s Skale Venom trait is getting weakness switched to Torment – perhaps if they just re-enabled the consumable for WvW then all classes would have some kind of access to the new condition.

I was thinking on similar lines to why the more mobile professions are receiving a new condition while some who are much slower don’t. To me, it should have been given to the Guardian along with Necromancer, these professions are very slow compared to the rest. When compared to others, this profession is severely lacking in condition application.

Guardians really don’t need torment. Actually, it isn’t really needed in the game at all.

Bash.7291:

….. seriously? Something that would actually solve one of the biggest issues with guardians, and they give it to thieves and mesmers?

Edit: Sorry, 2 issues. lack of a strong condition build, and enemy mobility reduction.

Agreed. ‘lets give the ability to punish people for being mobile to the most mobile class. And the class that gets the most mobility, the best way to break targets and the highest single target damage’.

WTF. If this is implemented as is, one of the best counters to beating thieves and mesmers (being mobile and using your roll heals) will get you killed and force guards even more towards condition removals.

I sincerely hope this has been thought out more than the blog post suggests. Why not give this to the 2 classes that gets kitted the most?!

Anzu.5702:

Bash.7291:

….. seriously? Something that would actually solve one of the biggest issues with guardians, and they give it to thieves and mesmers?

Edit: Sorry, 2 issues. lack of a strong condition build, and enemy mobility reduction.

Agreed. ‘lets give the ability to punish people for being mobile to the most mobile class. And the class that gets the most mobility, the best way to break targets and the highest single target damage’.

WTF. If this is implemented as is, one of the best counters to beating thieves and mesmers (being mobile and using your roll heals) will get you killed and force guards even more towards condition removals.

I sincerely hope this has been thought out more than the blog post suggests. Why not give the class that gets kited the most this?!

ummmm…. this discussion so belong to mesmer and theives

I know a bit about the mesmer class

To make torment effective, a mesmer have to give up direct damage potential. Which means, less glass cannon shatter builds.

To add more relief, sword and scepter are both opposite ends of the damage spectrum and are main hand weapon.

So, if you see a scepter main hand then you are more likely to see a staff which mean no more 2 sec invul blurr frenzy every 8 or 10 seconds.

Basically, Anet is making more build diversity possible

I am worried about the buff to interrupt damage trait. It might be OP on a shatter mesmer

you might see more pistol off hand since the temporal curtain nerf

I agree guardians need to get this because it is a pain using my whirling wrath only to find my opponent has ran out of its radius. Or having to constantly switch to staff because I am being kited.

Hold on. Are you guys actually acting like Confusion is a viable source of damage?

What skill of ours is getting torment

Stranger.2039:

Hold on. Are you guys actually acting like Confusion is a viable source of damage?

It’s more than viable for what it does. Max stacks of it will still knock you flat.

Anzu.5702:

Bash.7291:

….. seriously? Something that would actually solve one of the biggest issues with guardians, and they give it to thieves and mesmers?

Edit: Sorry, 2 issues. lack of a strong condition build, and enemy mobility reduction.

Agreed. ‘lets give the ability to punish people for being mobile to the most mobile class. And the class that gets the most mobility, the best way to break targets and the highest single target damage’.

WTF. If this is implemented as is, one of the best counters to beating thieves and mesmers (being mobile and using your roll heals) will get you killed and force guards even more towards condition removals.

I sincerely hope this has been thought out more than the blog post suggests. Why not give this to the 2 classes that gets kitted the most?!

Yeh, it definitely makes melandru or soldier runes a must for guardians. Depending on how hard this torment condition hits, guardians will need to get it off of them asap.

I love this… so now thieves not only go glass cannon or condition P/P, w/ stealth, they get to apply a condition on you, where if you move, you’re going to be damaged….

So now, we have to literally EAT IT. Regardless of what we do.

I can just see it now… leap of faith, bulls charge, ranger leaps… all like getting bursted down by a quickness/WW combo against someone who has retal on.

I’m so kittening tired of anet’s extremely POOR balancing ability..

This new conditon need to go to Necro’s and Guardians…. the 2 least mobile classes of them all…. NOT the 2 most mobile / stealth based classes.

I srsly hope this is a troll.

Amins.3710:

I love this… so now thieves not only go glass cannon or condition P/P, w/ stealth, they get to apply a condition on you, where if you move, you’re going to be damaged….

So now, we have to literally EAT IT. Regardless of what we do.

I can just see it now… leap of faith, bulls charge, ranger leaps… all like getting bursted down by a quickness/WW combo against someone who has retal on.

I’m so kittening tired of anet’s extremely POOR balancing ability..

This new conditon need to go to Necro’s and Guardians…. the 2 least mobile classes of them all…. NOT the 2 most mobile / stealth based classes.

I srsly hope this is a troll.

I will say that torment makes sense on mesmer only because the class is all about kittening with someone’s mind and all that, but to give it to thieves as well is a tad silly.

I can certainly see it going to Mesmer’s and being tied to Scepter but the Thief change doesn’t make much sense. Depending on what type of number ticks we see with Torment, we may see a massive influx of Mesmers and Thieves.

Setun.4368:

Amins.3710:

I love this… so now thieves not only go glass cannon or condition P/P, w/ stealth, they get to apply a condition on you, where if you move, you’re going to be damaged….

So now, we have to literally EAT IT. Regardless of what we do.

I can just see it now… leap of faith, bulls charge, ranger leaps… all like getting bursted down by a quickness/WW combo against someone who has retal on.

I’m so kittening tired of anet’s extremely POOR balancing ability..

This new conditon need to go to Necro’s and Guardians…. the 2 least mobile classes of them all…. NOT the 2 most mobile / stealth based classes.

I srsly hope this is a troll.

I will say that torment makes sense on mesmer only because the class is all about kittening with someone’s mind and all that, but to give it to thieves as well is a tad silly.

To give it to a mesmer…

We’re going to see way more Confusion/Torment bombs… bringing the class right back up to where they got nerf’d from…

I am just glad I already run a heavy condition removal damage spec…. last thing I need is to take damage while I am horribly failing at trying to hit someone just out of range of me. -.-

I visit(/lurk) the guardian forums regularly because I have an alt guardian that I’m interested in with PvE/WvW.

Yes I do main Mesmer.

I cannot believe that you guys still think that confusion is powerful. After the 50% nerf, I have never encountered a confusion Mesmer. Ever.

“But not if you have 25 stacks on you!” … Seriously? When do you ever see 25 stacks of confusion on you? Especially now that confusion (for both Engineers and Mesmers) have been destroyed to oblivion?

Now confusion is that random condition that you can probably shrug off and keep doing w/e you’ll be doing. Also, you’ll probably be fine anyway, since Torment will be limited to certain skills (and an unfavorable weapon)

Also, from the “leaked” patch notes in GW2hub, Mesmers are going to get a huge nerf to their “diversity”

So please, don’t worry about the Mesmers getting Torment. In fact, I suggest you worry more about how Necros (<— especially these guys, now with the alleged buff on “Focused Rituals” allowing easier trait management and Ground Targeted [ranged!] Well of Corruption) and Thieves would get torment, while easily shredding boons off.

Here’s a (somewhat untrustworthy…) preview of their new DS skill http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tainted_Shackles

Sorry for intruding

phokus.8934:

I can certainly see it going to Mesmer’s and being tied to Scepter but the Thief change doesn’t make much sense. Depending on what type of number ticks we see with Torment, we may see a massive influx of Mesmers and Thieves.

(0.11 * Condition Damage + 32) per stack per second at level 80

Looks like that’s the formula from the wiki. So at 1500 condition damage it’s going to be doing like 197 per tic, unless you are moving. Then it’s double. It does stack in intensity though.

Torment falls right in line with the Mesmer ideal, since GW1 it’s been thier role to Suppress, Control, and Punish thier opponents. Doesn’t make as much sense for it to be a Thief Venom but it suits Thieves fine too.
Guardian’s may not excel at kiting but they’re far from in desperate need of torment. Guards perform well in all modes. Enjoy that fact.