Guild Wars 2

Anyone tried this yet? Going full condition damage for PvE (dungeons, exploring).

Can you kill things fast just like a zerk?

I really wanna try but i don’t want to waste money.

About 14% less damage.

I have a screen somewhere one moment.

20 stacks of burning

- Without Superior Sigil of Smoldering.
- Without Superior Rune of Balthazar. I have Superior Runes of Melandru in this armour and they are too expensive to replace them for this test only.
- Beigarth’s Gear (Knight).
- I have less than 500 Condition Damage there (signet + 10% of Power was converted into Condition Damage).

I know that this dmg is nothing to “things” Ele can do with fire, but I wanted to show that it is possible to stack burning up to 20 ALONE.

Assic.2746:

I have a screen somewhere one moment.

20 stacks of burning

- Without Superior Sigil of Smoldering.
- Without Superior Rune of Balthazar. I have Superior Runes of Melandru in this armour and they are too expensive to replace them for this test only.
- Beigarth’s Gear (Knight).
- I have less than 500 Condition Damage there (signet + 10% of Power was converted into Condition Damage).

I know that this dmg is nothing to “things” Ele can do with fire, but I wanted to show that it is possible to stack burning up to 20 ALONE.

Sure you can get high burn numbers. And it will kill. But its far from optional.

1. Ramp up time.

2. The loss of support utilities also hurts the group.

3. Burning Nerf might be incoming.

Until this whole miss with conditions gets sorted out. I would stick with power builds.

Yep, I did it for test and I also can’t “approve” this build as a good one. It’s all a spike burning. It’s almost imposible to maintain it and the best option for Dungeons/Fractals are power builds with a little dose of burning (maybe torch; depends on variation).

But it is fun to see those numbers in PvE after all.

Assic.2746:

Yep, I did it for test and I also can’t “approve” this build as a good one. It’s all a spike burning. It’s almost imposible to maintain it and the best option for Dungeons/Fractals are power builds with a little dose of burning (maybe torch; depends on variation).

But it is fun to see those numbers in PvE after all.

The numbers were very impressive.

I find that I am using burning more in my power builds, what with the changes to radiant fire torch feels so much better.

Lets not forget that you would need 5 targets in relatively close quarters for burns to stack best. Burns is not going to out damage zerkers if it’s just 1 target or minion.

That’s just my opinion, I don’t pve much at all so what do I know about burn dmg vs raw dmg :p

i run zerker with Condi runes. Run scepter, torch, GS. The upgrades i use are poison on swap, bleed on swap, and burn duration on swap. My burst is high enough on trash for condis to not matter, but on high HP mobs/bosses, im critting like a beast + ticking for 3+k condi damage. This also scales well in wvw.

The other day i had a ranger try to gank me, he had me down to 50% HP when i was able to properly react. Managed to burst him and walk away, im not even that great in 1v1 situations. So far, im enjoying the build… while it lasts.

I’ve been enjoying it so much in PvP I’ve started messing around with it in PvE and am even considering a Sinister set. The one thing I can’t decide if the third trait line is Zeal vs Valor in PvE. In PvP it’s a no brainer for me MEditations and Valor is awesome. But I’’m wondering about the increased modifiers in Zeal for sustain. I’m also using a Greatsword to get plenty of AoE application and the greatsword trait is in Zeal.

I guess I should mention that I haven’t figured out anything useful for dungeons. SW and PvE open world doesn’t seem much slower than a Power build but it is bursty. I don’t feel like I have reasonable sustain for a dungeon at all.

Talyn.3295:

Assic.2746:

I have a screen somewhere one moment.

20 stacks of burning

- Without Superior Sigil of Smoldering.
- Without Superior Rune of Balthazar. I have Superior Runes of Melandru in this armour and they are too expensive to replace them for this test only.
- Beigarth’s Gear (Knight).
- I have less than 500 Condition Damage there (signet + 10% of Power was converted into Condition Damage).

I know that this dmg is nothing to “things” Ele can do with fire, but I wanted to show that it is possible to stack burning up to 20 ALONE.

Sure you can get high burn numbers. And it will kill. But its far from optional.

1. Ramp up time.

2. The loss of support utilities also hurts the group.

3. Burning Nerf might be incoming.

Until this whole miss with conditions gets sorted out. I would stick with power builds.

“3. Burning Nerf might be incoming.”

This pretty much is contradictory to your argument. If its not at least optimal, then why would it be considered for a nerf? Also, the ramp up time doesnt take long at all between scepter 2, torch 5, zealot’s flame proc, gs 2, and gs 4 and … well you get the point.

As described in my above post, you do enough damage on trash for it to not matter between zerk and condi/zerk. But, if run into a few elites, champ, or boss, your burn / other condi damage shine. Literally, take any hit you have (which is already massive, my torch 4 will hit for 6.5k without a group cohesively might stacking) and add a flat 3k to it.. Thats INSANE.

Additionally, i still run “Stand Your Ground” and “Retreat!” for utility, not counting my f1-3 boon procs.

konawolv.3971:

Talyn.3295:

Assic.2746:

I have a screen somewhere one moment.

20 stacks of burning

- Without Superior Sigil of Smoldering.
- Without Superior Rune of Balthazar. I have Superior Runes of Melandru in this armour and they are too expensive to replace them for this test only.
- Beigarth’s Gear (Knight).
- I have less than 500 Condition Damage there (signet + 10% of Power was converted into Condition Damage).

I know that this dmg is nothing to “things” Ele can do with fire, but I wanted to show that it is possible to stack burning up to 20 ALONE.

Sure you can get high burn numbers. And it will kill. But its far from optional.

1. Ramp up time.

2. The loss of support utilities also hurts the group.

3. Burning Nerf might be incoming.

Until this whole miss with conditions gets sorted out. I would stick with power builds.

“3. Burning Nerf might be incoming.”

This pretty much is contradictory to your argument. If its not at least optimal, then why would it be considered for a nerf? Also, the ramp up time doesnt take long at all between scepter 2, torch 5, zealot’s flame proc, gs 2, and gs 4 and … well you get the point.

As described in my above post, you do enough damage on trash for it to not matter between zerk and condi/zerk. But, if run into a few elites, champ, or boss, your burn / other condi damage shine. Literally, take any hit you have (which is already massive, my torch 4 will hit for 6.5k without a group cohesively might stacking) and add a flat 3k to it.. Thats INSANE.

Additionally, i still run “Stand Your Ground” and “Retreat!” for utility, not counting my f1-3 boon procs.

Because we are not the only class that uses burning for condition damage.

The math has already show the difference between direct damage very condition damage for guardians. Fact is: Guardians deal more damage with direct damage.

Unless you front load your conditions, which we can’t do, there is still a ramp up time. If done right a boss will die faster to direct damage before you get enough stacks to matter.

I would never suggest going for burning damage alone even if we were sure it would not get the nerf bat.

That being said a mix of carrion/sinister can work quite well as can celestial if your sure your going to have someone to stack might.

As for ramp up time, its rather low considering its a condition but it still isn’t as good as pure physical damage.

Dristig.9678:

I’ve been enjoying it so much in PvP I’ve started messing around with it in PvE and am even considering a Sinister set. The one thing I can’t decide if the third trait line is Zeal vs Valor in PvE. In PvP it’s a no brainer for me MEditations and Valor is awesome. But I’’m wondering about the increased modifiers in Zeal for sustain. I’m also using a Greatsword to get plenty of AoE application and the greatsword trait is in Zeal.

I guess I should mention that I haven’t figured out anything useful for dungeons. SW and PvE open world doesn’t seem much slower than a Power build but it is bursty. I don’t feel like I have reasonable sustain for a dungeon at all.

If your going to run burning at all in PvE try radiance, virtues, zeal with supreme justice, permeating wrath and either a mace/torch or sword/torch build.
The aoe and single target damage is insane.

If you need more support you can also easily drop valor for honor and run a mix of shouts & consecrations.

Talyn.3295:

konawolv.3971:

Talyn.3295:

Assic.2746:

I have a screen somewhere one moment.

20 stacks of burning

- Without Superior Sigil of Smoldering.
- Without Superior Rune of Balthazar. I have Superior Runes of Melandru in this armour and they are too expensive to replace them for this test only.
- Beigarth’s Gear (Knight).
- I have less than 500 Condition Damage there (signet + 10% of Power was converted into Condition Damage).

I know that this dmg is nothing to “things” Ele can do with fire, but I wanted to show that it is possible to stack burning up to 20 ALONE.

Sure you can get high burn numbers. And it will kill. But its far from optional.

1. Ramp up time.

2. The loss of support utilities also hurts the group.

3. Burning Nerf might be incoming.

Until this whole miss with conditions gets sorted out. I would stick with power builds.

“3. Burning Nerf might be incoming.”

This pretty much is contradictory to your argument. If its not at least optimal, then why would it be considered for a nerf? Also, the ramp up time doesnt take long at all between scepter 2, torch 5, zealot’s flame proc, gs 2, and gs 4 and … well you get the point.

As described in my above post, you do enough damage on trash for it to not matter between zerk and condi/zerk. But, if run into a few elites, champ, or boss, your burn / other condi damage shine. Literally, take any hit you have (which is already massive, my torch 4 will hit for 6.5k without a group cohesively might stacking) and add a flat 3k to it.. Thats INSANE.

Additionally, i still run “Stand Your Ground” and “Retreat!” for utility, not counting my f1-3 boon procs.

Because we are not the only class that uses burning for condition damage.

The math has already show the difference between direct damage very condition damage for guardians. Fact is: Guardians deal more damage with direct damage.

Unless you front load your conditions, which we can’t do, there is still a ramp up time. If done right a boss will die faster to direct damage before you get enough stacks to matter.

The OP asked about exploration and dungeons. not just dungeons, so Zerker may be marginally better in dungeons because of the low hp pools, but condi is far superior in world content. This, to me, makes the decision kind of clear atm. Also, i would like to know what gear was used in regards to the math that was done. Im currently using Zerker gear + condi runes.

its really not a joke when i say that i hit HARD and it seems like the extra 3k ticks are just bonus damage that i otherwise wouldnt have had.

konawolv.3971:

Talyn.3295:

konawolv.3971:

Talyn.3295:

Assic.2746:

I have a screen somewhere one moment.

20 stacks of burning

- Without Superior Sigil of Smoldering.
- Without Superior Rune of Balthazar. I have Superior Runes of Melandru in this armour and they are too expensive to replace them for this test only.
- Beigarth’s Gear (Knight).
- I have less than 500 Condition Damage there (signet + 10% of Power was converted into Condition Damage).

I know that this dmg is nothing to “things” Ele can do with fire, but I wanted to show that it is possible to stack burning up to 20 ALONE.

Sure you can get high burn numbers. And it will kill. But its far from optional.

1. Ramp up time.

2. The loss of support utilities also hurts the group.

3. Burning Nerf might be incoming.

Until this whole miss with conditions gets sorted out. I would stick with power builds.

“3. Burning Nerf might be incoming.”

This pretty much is contradictory to your argument. If its not at least optimal, then why would it be considered for a nerf? Also, the ramp up time doesnt take long at all between scepter 2, torch 5, zealot’s flame proc, gs 2, and gs 4 and … well you get the point.

As described in my above post, you do enough damage on trash for it to not matter between zerk and condi/zerk. But, if run into a few elites, champ, or boss, your burn / other condi damage shine. Literally, take any hit you have (which is already massive, my torch 4 will hit for 6.5k without a group cohesively might stacking) and add a flat 3k to it.. Thats INSANE.

Additionally, i still run “Stand Your Ground” and “Retreat!” for utility, not counting my f1-3 boon procs.

Because we are not the only class that uses burning for condition damage.

The math has already show the difference between direct damage very condition damage for guardians. Fact is: Guardians deal more damage with direct damage.

Unless you front load your conditions, which we can’t do, there is still a ramp up time. If done right a boss will die faster to direct damage before you get enough stacks to matter.

The OP asked about exploration and dungeons. not just dungeons, so Zerker may be marginally better in dungeons because of the low hp pools, but condi is far superior in world content. This, to me, makes the decision kind of clear atm. Also, i would like to know what gear was used in regards to the math that was done. Im currently using Zerker gear + condi runes.

its really not a joke when i say that i hit HARD and it seems like the extra 3k ticks are just bonus damage that i otherwise wouldnt have had.

Sinister was the gear used for testing, as it is the most damaging condi gear. And it’s about 14% better without the use of Unscathed Contender. Higher damage if you can keep UC up for most of the fight.

Any build can hit hard, I find zerker works best on my guardian in all game modes from wvw roaming to spvp and both open world and dungeons. Others have different experiences, and that is fine. I however don’t like to pack around an entire armor chest all time, so I use the one gear that works well in all.

Something I don’t see anyone mention when it comes to condition damage is Permeating Wrath. That’s the trait that makes Justice proc as an aoe. On groups or boss fights with multiple enemies the aoe procs every 3rd hit, which means you’re applying a burn every single attack in ideal cases, and it’s applied to every mob around you. While direct damage is decidedly better for single target right now, I feel like it’s worth noting that you can do some intense aoe condi damage with the right circumstances.

konawolv.3971:

The OP asked about exploration and dungeons. not just dungeons, so Zerker may be marginally better in dungeons because of the low hp pools, but condi is far superior in world content. This, to me, makes the decision kind of clear atm. Also, i would like to know what gear was used in regards to the math that was done. Im currently using Zerker gear + condi runes.

its really not a joke when i say that i hit HARD and it seems like the extra 3k ticks are just bonus damage that i otherwise wouldnt have had.

14-20% less dps is not marginal. True open world and solo is different than dungeon in party and the difference between both will be smaller, but it don’t seem that condi guardian is able to close the gap completely (compare to other profession like engie and warrior). But I can be wrong on that point, we’ll have to see the actual number for solo.

Talyn.3295:

konawolv.3971:

Talyn.3295:

konawolv.3971:

Talyn.3295:

Assic.2746:

I have a screen somewhere one moment.

20 stacks of burning

- Without Superior Sigil of Smoldering.
- Without Superior Rune of Balthazar. I have Superior Runes of Melandru in this armour and they are too expensive to replace them for this test only.
- Beigarth’s Gear (Knight).
- I have less than 500 Condition Damage there (signet + 10% of Power was converted into Condition Damage).

I know that this dmg is nothing to “things” Ele can do with fire, but I wanted to show that it is possible to stack burning up to 20 ALONE.

Sure you can get high burn numbers. And it will kill. But its far from optional.

1. Ramp up time.

2. The loss of support utilities also hurts the group.

3. Burning Nerf might be incoming.

Until this whole miss with conditions gets sorted out. I would stick with power builds.

“3. Burning Nerf might be incoming.”

This pretty much is contradictory to your argument. If its not at least optimal, then why would it be considered for a nerf? Also, the ramp up time doesnt take long at all between scepter 2, torch 5, zealot’s flame proc, gs 2, and gs 4 and … well you get the point.

As described in my above post, you do enough damage on trash for it to not matter between zerk and condi/zerk. But, if run into a few elites, champ, or boss, your burn / other condi damage shine. Literally, take any hit you have (which is already massive, my torch 4 will hit for 6.5k without a group cohesively might stacking) and add a flat 3k to it.. Thats INSANE.

Additionally, i still run “Stand Your Ground” and “Retreat!” for utility, not counting my f1-3 boon procs.

Because we are not the only class that uses burning for condition damage.

The math has already show the difference between direct damage very condition damage for guardians. Fact is: Guardians deal more damage with direct damage.

Unless you front load your conditions, which we can’t do, there is still a ramp up time. If done right a boss will die faster to direct damage before you get enough stacks to matter.

The OP asked about exploration and dungeons. not just dungeons, so Zerker may be marginally better in dungeons because of the low hp pools, but condi is far superior in world content. This, to me, makes the decision kind of clear atm. Also, i would like to know what gear was used in regards to the math that was done. Im currently using Zerker gear + condi runes.

its really not a joke when i say that i hit HARD and it seems like the extra 3k ticks are just bonus damage that i otherwise wouldnt have had.

Sinister was the gear used for testing, as it is the most damaging condi gear. And it’s about 14% better without the use of Unscathed Contender. Higher damage if you can keep UC up for most of the fight.

Any build can hit hard, I find zerker works best on my guardian in all game modes from wvw roaming to spvp and both open world and dungeons. Others have different experiences, and that is fine. I however don’t like to pack around an entire armor chest all time, so I use the one gear that works well in all.

I see. So the comparison was done between full on condi vs full zerker. If i was versed in testing methodology i would test my setup with zerker gear + condi runes and sigils. But i really dont have the time for it. This just seemed like a no brainer to me. Having major in Zerker and a minor in Condi per se. Its also super cheap as it isnt the meta.

the general rotation im using is to torch 4 —> scepter 2 --> torch 5 —> torch 4 --> gs 4 —> gs 2 --> gs 3 —> auto --> swap —> repeat. I swap ASAP to apply bleeding and posion consistently and apply my burst skills to keep the burning stacks up. The weapon sigils arent optimal for pve, but they are cheap, and are fantastic for wvwvw as applying more condis makes it harder for your foe to remove your burn stacks.

This builds my stacks, seemingly, very quickly

konawolv.3971:

I see. So the comparison was done between full on condi vs full zerker. If i was versed in testing methodology i would test my setup with zerker gear + condi runes and sigils. But i really dont have the time for it. This just seemed like a no brainer to me. Having major in Zerker and a minor in Condi per se. Its also super cheap as it isnt the meta.

Well several people already did some testing, but it’s early still. Other people may come with different build are setup or different result that could change the final answer. But I doubt the answer will be extremely different than what we have now. Zerker gear + condition rune is a bad idea. They changed how condition work. You need a good amount of condition before the damage is worth it now. You can either go full power, full damage or balanced hybrid, but full power with a little condition is a waste.

About this topic, I did a little bit of numbers at the PvP trainer, and got 22k of physycall dmg+burning, with full zerker and runes of scholar, and 24k for precision, power, condi (dont remember the name in english) with runes of balthasar.

The combo I used was purging flames, gs3, gs2, gs5, gs4

Thats raw dmg solo and without any kind of buff.
So I decide to give it a try at sw, bought an exotic gear and runes (all pretty cheap, not even 1g for the 6 runes) and its amaizing how things melt.

For those worried about a major burn nerf, I wouldn’t be. Anet has said any change will be minor to burning.

SoulTaker.2093:

About this topic, I did a little bit of numbers at the PvP trainer, and got 22k of physycall dmg+burning, with full zerker and runes of scholar, and 24k for precision, power, condi (dont remember the name in english) with runes of balthasar.

The combo I used was purging flames, gs3, gs2, gs5, gs4

Thats raw dmg solo and without any kind of buff.
So I decide to give it a try at sw, bought an exotic gear and runes (all pretty cheap, not even 1g for the 6 runes) and its amaizing how things melt.

Shhshshhhhhhh, burning is bad. don’t tell anyone!
I've been doing it too. I've got a Sinister Greatsword and the rest is Carrion right now. On multiple targets it is amazing. When my cooldowns are down and I only have one target it is a little underwhelming but when my cooldowns are available killing 3-4 teragriffs at once is SOOOO fun.

Burning will obviously be good when the targets are multiplied, just like AOE damage is when you get multiple targets. I’m not sure that’s the question of the OP or shows how good burning is right now.

I haven’t seen any theorycrafting convincing me that I can get equivalent, sustainable damage using a focused condi build on Guardian vs. straight up direct damage.

The name of the game for guardians is hybrid damage (carrion, sinister, celestial, rampager). We don’t have many skills that proc damaging conditions alone, but by combining what we do have with the power damage we naturally do well makes for a scary dual threat. In open world (and especially fighting mobs higher level than you while leveling), aoe condition damage is quality.

i just love my Guard Build GS – Mace/Torch

Farming Flats.5370:

i just love my Guard Build GS – Mace/Torch

TeeHee Mace/Torch, posts a Scepter/Torch screenshot.