Guild Wars 2

The current fire and forget functionality of spirit weapons (and pretty much every other pet in the game) diminishes their viability in a setting where AOE is the dominate form of attack. Instead of the current design, I propose several changes that together will make these weapons more practical.

-Make spirit weapons immune to healing and regeneration.

-Give each Spirit Weapon utility a passive effect that summons their associated Spirit Weapon. The weapons will be intangible in this form, i.e. they can neither attack nor be attacked. They are also passive and will follow the player around, ignoring aggro.

-On activation of the utility skill, the weapons become tangible for a short period of time and will use their associated skills (the same skills they use when you summon them currently). In this form they may be attacked and destroyed.

-If activated and not destroyed, the weapons will go on a short cooldown and become intangible before being available for use.

-The cooldown is the same length as length of each weapon’s duration. This will allow the Guardian to keep their Spirit Weapons tangible indefinitely so long as they continue to activate them as they go intangible.

-The spirit weapons will not replenish health points while intangible if the player is in combat. They will begin to regenerate while out of combat.

-If activated and destroyed, the weapons will go on a much longer cooldown. Once this cooldown is finished, the weapons will by re-summoned in their intangible state at full health.

-Shield of absorption’s active effect may need some tweaking in order to not be OP.

Rational behind the changes
With these changes, usage of the spirit weapons becomes more strategic. The player is given more control over when, where and how they’re used. As intangible pets, they will follow the player around. This will allow players more acute control over where the spirits will activate, and a short window of activation ensures that they won’t wander off to attack/draw aggro from unintented targets. This will also indirectly buff them against AOE, and that’s a logistical issue that sorely needs addressing.

For PVP, this design of the Spirit Weapons will also pose challenges for both the users and their opponent. The health and tangibility mechanics create a sort of risk/reward resource game. The user of the weapon must choose to risk Spirit Weapon health (the resource) for their active abilities (the reward). Opponents facing Spirit Weapon builds will be challenged to either deplete the weapons in a timely manner or avoid them while going for the guardian; in either case, these weapons should change the way players fight this type of Guardians.

Edit: Clarification, mixed up some bullet points

Personally, I’d much rather see Spirit Weapons revamped closer to Mantras (use each effect X times before the cooldown) or Conjure skills (summon the weapon for 5 new skills, X charges or Y duration).

Basically what you have is a slightly different Signet skill. You get a passive effect while not using the weapon. Instead of a single active effect, you have a duration in which the weapon can use its effects. I don’t quite understand what you mean by “use their associated skills.” Do you mean the command ability (ex. healing arrows) or the standard ability (condition-removing arrows)?

I don’t see how it makes Spirit Weapons better. Adding a passive effect doesn’t make Spirit Weapons better. Everything you described in terms of strategic uses can be applied to how signets should be. You either give up the passive boost for a short, powerful effect or you maintain the stat boost. Spirit Weapons don’t need the same function.

I don’t think you read that correctly. These are nothing like signets. The passive effect is to summon the weapon, similar to Necromancer pets (minus the attacking). The active effect causes the weapon to use their skills (the skills they use while summoned in the current system) and be attacked. The fact that they only take damage while active is where the strategy comes in, and also how the design deals with AoE. I.E. don’t activate them when there’s AOE everywhere and they won’t die.

Hm, then wouldn’t it be just as efficient to remove the casting time from the skills? Granted, you wouldn’t have the possibility for a lower cooldown. It sounds like you want Spirit Weapons to be ready to strike when the opportunity is right. Removing the casting time offers the same function. The only thing you’d lose is seeing your weapons float around you prior to activation.

That would remove all the challenge in using Spirit Weapon. They would be even more of a fire and forget utility (even though they’re ineffectual when used that way) because you can use them any time without repercussion.

It would function nearly identical to what you’re suggesting. You want to ready Spirit Weapons prior to attacking (similar to Mantras) and to choose when to have the weapons start attacking. The only differences are an extra step to summon the Spirit Weapon and the possibility for a shorter cooldown. There’s not much more stategy around it. With either senario, you watch for AoE and strike when the enemy as used nearly all area attacks. What am I missing with your suggestion that promotes a different skill level from how Spirit Weapons already function?

Again, I think you’ve read the OP incorrectly.

TwoBit.5903:

Again, I think you’ve read the OP incorrectly.

Then clarify it for him if you think he’s reading it incorrectly.

The only real change I’m reading here is to make spirit weapons immune/passive on command. This suggestion doesn’t even hit the tip of the iceberg with what’s wrong with spirit weapons. Spirit weapons traits completely spread out and deep, health is still extremely low, abilities lackluster (other than shield), and sword damage is pitiful.

There really is no good reason to use spirit weapons at all and would require an overhaul (maybe similar to ranger spirits) to even make them worthwhile.

You’ve read it incorrectly as well.

They’re immune when passive. Vulnerable on command. This problem deals with the core issues with AOE and poor AI (which I’m not confident that ANet will ever work out). It gives more control of the weapons to the player, and adds risk to using them as a tradeoff for using them (if they die, you get a very long cooldown). Traits and health can always be tweaked, but tweaking them doesn’t deal with the issue of their viability in the metagame. The actual functionality is what’s wrong with the weapons.

Goodness, seems that when I posted this, I sorely underestimated the average forum poster’s level of reading comprehension.

You really believe that? I was well aware you’re suggesting Spirit Weapons be immune on passive. What I don’t understand is why a player needs additional control if you’ve stated the true problem of the weapons is the AI and not the basic function. The AI needs fixed if anything. AoE will exist regardless. Your weapons will take damage. If you wait for the enemies to waste their AoE skills before activating a Spirit Weapon, your Spirit Weapon automatically has a better chance of survival. There’s no need to have Spirit Weapons floating around the character until you’re ready to press the same key that would otherwise summon it in the first place.

TwoBit.5903:

You’ve read it incorrectly as well.

They’re immune when passive. Vulnerable on command. This problem deals with the core issues with AOE and poor AI (which I’m not confident that ANet will ever work out). It gives more control of the weapons to the player, and adds risk to using them as a tradeoff for using them (if they die, you get a very long cooldown). Traits and health can always be tweaked, but tweaking them doesn’t deal with the issue of their viability in the metagame. The actual functionality is what’s wrong with the weapons.

Goodness, seems that when I posted this, I sorely underestimated the average forum poster’s level of reading comprehension.

I made it quite clear on what your suggestion for spirit weapon was. Putting your condescending attitude to the side for a moment…

Your idea still lacks utter control of the weapons, albeit, more so than what we currently have. The full control you appear to be looking for is treating spirit weapons as pets. Activating whether or not they go immune to damage and breaks combat doesn’t really make much sense from a practical standpoint. It’s needlessly complicating a set of utilities whose purpose is to provide damage, cc, condition removal, and projectile absorption.

There’s an inherent problem when a set of utilities are not even looked at because they don’t compare to shouts or meditations. From traits, to health, to functionality all need to be looked at and not just some gimmicky concept of making them invulnerable and then making them aggressive. To even be considered in the guardian meta game, spirit weapons need more utility with them. I wouldn’t be against spirit weapons behaving like Ranger Spirit utilities. Adding more to what they do to groups would be a start.

I’d rather have the current spirit weapons than what you’re suggesting (longer cooldown for the sake of going invulnerable and not regaining health…) and get them back in the fight after they die to AOE in matter of 1-2 seconds. Kind of how the Necromancer healing minion works.

phokus.8934:

]I made it quite clear on what your suggestion for spirit weapon was. Putting your condescending attitude to the side for a moment…

Your idea still lacks utter control of the weapons, albeit, more so than what we currently have. The full control you appear to be looking for is treating spirit weapons as pets. Activating whether or not they go immune to damage and breaks combat doesn’t really make much sense from a practical standpoint. It’s needlessly complicating a set of utilities whose purpose is to provide damage, cc, condition removal, and projectile absorption.

You don’t need Ranger pet controls to have reasonable controls of pets. Toggling their aggro and control their movement with your own is enough more precise use. That’s what these suggestions try to accomplish. The current system is less complicated with respect to actually executing the skills, but that’s not a good thing and its inadequate when you consider the environment they’re used in. Once they’re let loose the combination of poor AI (ANet has shown their they’re incapable of designing decent AI) and dynamic environments compromises their function. They go rogue, aggroing random enemies. Aside from the shield (only because of its niche in PvE), These weapons are completely unreliable after firing off their skills once or twice. Once they inevitably die, you’re left with a utility on cooldown. This is why no one uses spirit weapons. You should know as much if you play guardians at a high level.

By making activation windows shorter there’s less of a chance that this will happen, because the AI resets after every use. What’s so complicated about pressing a button every time you want to use them and managing their HP?

phokus.8934:

There’s an inherent problem when a set of utilities are not even looked at because they don’t compare to shouts or meditations. From traits, to health, to functionality all need to be looked at and not just some gimmicky concept of making them invulnerable and then making them aggressive. To even be considered in the guardian meta game, spirit weapons need more utility with them. I wouldn’t be against spirit weapons behaving like Ranger Spirit utilities. Adding more to what they do to groups would be a start.

Weapon effects are more than fine (the hammer knocks down enemies quite consistently if you fight solo enemies). The problem lies with the game’s execution of them. Toggling invulnerability will make them more viable in an AOE environment and also make their use more opportunistic. It’s hardly a gimmick. It’s a workaround. If you increase their health without changing the way they work with respect to their environment all that will accomplish is to change how long they stay out. Go overboard and you have a situation where they’re unkillable with no risk-reward play like with ranger pets.

If that’s the extent of your criticisms and insights, then I think my condescension is fully justified.

To understand your proposition :
- as soon as you slot them, they are invoked, but they do nothing and they are invulnerable – Passive Status
- by activating the the utility, they instantly go to Active Mode, where they works as now -but you cannot activate their special abilities
- you can activate them one more time to let them back to the Passive status.
- In Passive mode, there health only regenerate out of combat.

Right ? Or have I missed something ?

My point is that I will miss their special abilities (Heal on Bow, SmashDown on hammer).