Paragon of the Seraphim Order [Ankh]
a small, casual Guild with a play as you want style.
a small, casual Guild with a play as you want style.
Spirit Weaponry, once more.
I’ll start off myself with both an idealistic vision and a hopefully more realistic one.
Personal Ideal:
I agree that Spirit Weapons currently aren’t COMPLETELY useless.
or at least 1 isn’t.
The Shield.
Eventhough it isn’t a reliable way to protect yourself from projectiles.
The first time I saw that Spirit Weapons concept art I immediately figured it’d be an elite skill. We’d become a bulwark to be feared.
When I came back to GW2 not too long ago, I saw that our tomes have disappeared. We now have a Signet of Courage and a Shout “Feel my wrath!”
Feel my wrath in particular is a nice buff from what it used to be.
Gameplay in GW2 isn’t about being locked in place spamming a few skills.
But I personally did love this playstyle and think it would suit an elite focussed on spirit weaponry.
Don’t lock us in place though, allow us to move around with Spirit Weapons chained to our Guardians as the Concept Art shows, the mobility would give this new skill a chance and not have it be dead on release.
I do realize that my lack of information given surrounding this “new elite” can make it seem horribly overpowered and for this I apologize.
Now for something I hope to be a bit more realistic:
We’ve seen a lot of improvements with the revenant regarding to “What Spirit Weapons could have been.”
The Revenant’s “Vengeful Hammers” (The spinning hammers) are great!
They feel powerful and because it’s a skill and not a summon the hammers can’t be destroyed either.
The Protective Solace feels like what the Shield could have been.
A mobile anti-projectile bubble on-demand.
So basically, Allow Spirit Weapons to be maintained.
Problem being: Revenants maintain, Guardians sustain.
Perhaps I should play around more with my Revenant.. ^^
Paragon of the Seraphim Order [Ankh]
a small, casual Guild with a play as you want style.
a small, casual Guild with a play as you want style.
spirit weapons need to be completely reworked from the core concept.
an AI summon that takes the slot of an utility skill will NEVER be competitive with meditations/traps/consecrations.
Darknicrofia Sage – Bad Gerdian, Merciless Legend, Platinum NA Solo Que
My reason exactly for making it want to be an elite skill with all spirit weapons combined.
I fear we won’t EVER see Spirit Weapons in the Meta.
But should we really focus on updating skills so they can fit in the meta?
“Feel my wrath!” is just so much nicer right now. it’s quick and offensive.
But a Spirit Weapon elite could at least give players something new.
After all there’s more to GW2 than Speed Clears and Raids. ^^
Paragon of the Seraphim Order [Ankh]
a small, casual Guild with a play as you want style.
a small, casual Guild with a play as you want style.
Oh where to begin.
Overall change: Spirit weapons’ health bar should be replaced with a break bar similar to how a chalk sapper is designed. That way they aren’t going to get killed prematurely in PVE and opponents have to waste valuable CC to get rid of them in PVP and it would become immune to CC. For PVE their aggro would have to be almost completely eliminated since it can’t tank for you.
Their cooldowns also need to be rethought. Possibly a variation of how traps are handled. Cooldown starts immediately after use, but then will reset if you use a command skill.
Expeditious Spirit: Since half of spirit weapons don’t attack enemies it needs an extra component added, or Bow of Truth and Shield of the Avenger need to be changed to gain benefit from the burning. For example Bow of Truth’s command burns enemies if hit with the healing arrows, and Shield of the Avenger causing burning if it successfully absorbs a projectile.
Spirit Sword: The command skill needs to be fix so that it can hit reliably. I’d prefer if sword becomes a condi damage utility since that is the only build that uses it now. The damage per hit would scale down dramatically, but the attack speed would increase to give higher Expeditious Spirit procs. It’s movement speed would need to be tweaked so that it could reliably stay on target.
Spirit Hammer: Needs to knock down, not back in the auto attack chain. Wish it did something valuable during the ~6s dead period between chains. Maybe pulse cripple or protection.
Spirit Shield: NEEDS to stay on my kitten , not dance around and leisurely follow me. If it did a good job of creating a dome where I actually was then this would be a solid utility. Could use a better buff from Expeditious Spirit.
Spirit Bow: Too many problems with it to offer constructive feedback.
Spirit weapons are pretty much useless.
I’m all about wvw but I also do a great deal of pve. Only once did I ever rely on SW’s. I can’t remember the name of the boss and instance but it was the one where you had to run and fire at the boss while jumping over disappearing floor panels (as little asuran). In that instance it was helpful to me, but that was the only case.
Personally I’d like to see them (spirit weapons) shelved and something else brought in to define the Guardian more since other classes heal better, provide better stability, better DPS. Better tanking (thanks to having a HP lower than a medium class).
Guardian/Dragon Hunter is like the so-so class of the game that’s not really wanted or needed in top tier pvp tournaments or raids. The only other class that is as bad or worse is ranger (and yes I have both).
Burn guard is not bad, but its far from having an I win button and is easily countered. If it was all that it would also be in the top tier PvP meta and its not. So I hope the Dev’s use some wisdom before they nerf the heck out of it over the cries of the thieves that have had the I-win-button since launch.
(edited by Kamara.4187)
My thoughts on current spirit weapons
Outside of extremely niche situations where you must have the shield to stop projectiles there is no reason to ever use them.
The CC, damage & condi clear they provide does not justify the utility, damage & or sustain lost from not using shouts or meditations.
This is especially true outside of PvE where they do not have the 90% damage reduction.
As for what they should do with them. I think they should get rid of them & redesign the concept into something else.
That something else could be
1: A weapon you summon for personal use similar to an ele conjure weapon, albeit one with high up time and allot of flexibility in what it can do since it is for your use only.
2: A mix between a banner & ranger spirit. By this I mean an invulnerable immobile summoned item with high up time that provides an AOE boost to one stat and can be commanded to provide a special effect.
2A: Sword could grant + condition damage & a command which causes the next X hits to bleed enemies.
2B: Hammer could provide + power & a command which causes the next hit to be a knock down.
2C: Shield could provide + vitality & a command which creates a projectile absorbing bubble
2D: Bow could provide + healing power & a command which creates an AOE which heals and removes conditions.
Either one would work though I would prefer number 1.
Number 1 is nice, but as you said it’s like the elementalist’s summoned weapons.
Guardians are currently in a situation where every other class seems to be doing everything better.
1. Damage – Don’t get me started. (traps were a nice source of burst damage and this is getting hate already.)
2. Tanking – Other classes simply do it better than the “master of defences”. (Utility Chronotank for example.)
3. Boons – the ones most often used are best distributed by other classes such as a Warrior.
4. CC – other classes can use CC at least as well as a Guardian and most of a Guardian’s CC is ignored because Ring of Warding, Line of Warding are ineffective + they don’t break bars.
5. Condition – Guardians apply burning, they’re great with burning! Yet again, others do it better. Condi-Engi + not to speak of the Burnzerker…
and likely many others as well but my point is:
I don’t want Guardians to copy something off of another class.
We’d likely get a weaker version of summoned weapons and if our Spirit Weapons would end up being stronger (!!) we’ll get the entire non-guardian community lighting torches and grabbing pitchforks because useful Guardians should simply get sent into the mists for some reason or another.
Paragon of the Seraphim Order [Ankh]
a small, casual Guild with a play as you want style.
a small, casual Guild with a play as you want style.
@Ragnar: LOL option 2 sounds like an alternative version to signets, and option 2b is Bane signet.
@Ragnar: LOL option 2 sounds like an alternative version to signets, and option 2b is Bane signet.
Well technically ya.
However they would be signets your entire group benefits from.
Hence why I prefer option 1. Either one would be a vast improvement however.
As for the actual signets I sincerely hope they get a rework as well. As is there is no reason to use any of them besides judgment due to how long the Cd’s are, how long the cast times are, how telegraphed the attacks are and or due to the fact that their actives are just really weak versions of stuff other classes can do.
Imo, Spirit weapons should work like a mix of Nerco minions, Ele conjurers and Engi toolkits. So, you can use them as minions (Necro), or grab them to replace your #1-5 skills (Ele/Engi). I mean, there’s already tons of GS, hammer, LB and shield skills in the game, devs don’t have to create new ones, just give as AT LEAST a slightly weaker version of them.
Imo, Spirit weapons should work like a mix of Nerco minions, Ele conjurers and Engi toolkits. So, you can use them as minions (Necro), or grab them to replace your #1-5 skills (Ele/Engi). I mean, there’s already tons of GS, hammer, LB and shield skills in the game, devs don’t have to create new ones, just give as AT LEAST a slightly weaker version of them.
We have access to all those weapons anyways. They are going to be either worse than there physical counterparts that we already have or they will be better and then I’ll wonder why Guardian’s hammer isn’t just the Spirit version.
What about giving spirit weapons a “2nd strike” mechanic?
Example:
You slash your enemy with a Greatsword, the Sword of Justice slashes soon after that.
As if the attack is echo’d.
Naturally the echo attack should be weaker than the initial attack with your own greatsword (or any other weapon perhaps?) and perhaps the echo can has special effects?
Paragon of the Seraphim Order [Ankh]
a small, casual Guild with a play as you want style.
a small, casual Guild with a play as you want style.
What about giving spirit weapons a “2nd strike” mechanic?
Example:
You slash your enemy with a Greatsword, the Sword of Justice slashes soon after that.
As if the attack is echo’d.Naturally the echo attack should be weaker than the initial attack with your own greatsword (or any other weapon perhaps?) and perhaps the echo can has special effects?
That is essentially worse then they are now.
As is now they have crappy Ai but when it works they attack on their own (till they get easily nuked)
Personally I’m still in favor of the banner/spirit rework or making them akin to conjured weapons.
My suggestion:
Buff the Command effects. We no longer summon Spirit Weapons, the instant Command effect IS the skill. Once you use the Command effect a “lingering spirit stays with you aiding you in battle”, this will be the Spirit Weapon we know today. It will do its passive effect until killed or timer runs out. Lower the cooldown on all Spirit Skills and the cooldown starts instantly when the Command is first used.
This puts the majority of the strength of the skill in the instant Command with the Lingering Spirit Weapon an added effect.
Kinda like Mesmer Illusions except we can not control Spirit Weapons anymore, the strength is 80% in the instant command.
No longer have to waste time summoning the weapons, less worry on if they die because the instant Command carried the weight of the skill.
For example:
Bow of Truth – Summon a barrage of healing arrows at the target location healing allies and curing X condition/s. 40 second cooldown. The Bows Lingering Spirit remains healing individual allies and removing conditions for 10 seconds or until destroyed.
Sword of Justice – Instantly strike your enemy for X damage, applying vulnerability and searing a Symbol into the ground. 20 second cooldown. The Swords Lingering Spirit remains striking foes you hit applying vulnerability, remains for 15 seconds or until destroyed.
Talents could increase the Lingering Spirits duration so you could have the Sword out all the time, 20 second cooldown and 20 second Lingering Spirit, for example.
(edited by Arnath.2319)
Honnestly, Spirit Weapons should be able to activate our F1 passive effect too, in addition to their traits.
Sword Damages should be reduced while also increasing it’s attack speed by 3×. It can proc Justice’s F1 abilities.
Hammer Should permanently be near the Guardian, running with him everywhere he goes. Hammer’s command skill functions like our Hammer skill#1 – you have to keep pressing it to deal it’s combo effect knockdown. Damages reduced to scale.
Shield Bubble effect should stay with the Guardian permanently just like Spirit Hammer, considering we can already throw out a Sanctuary bubble. The Shield’s command skill acts the exact same, throwing itself out applying Aegis and hitting foes except it comes right back to the Guardian for its bubble effect, again, follows the Guardian.
Spirit Bow should have a longer range, at least 800 radius so it can stay clear of combat and be more effective with its cleansing effect. It’s cleansing effect only cleanses around the Guardian himself in a 250 radius. Its healing effect radius also deals minuscule damages in the healing area but can also proc Guardian’s F1 virtues.
aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld
Well, the only thing they could be useful for in my eyes is PvE. Things like summoned weapons, turrets or minions are never really great in PvP. Sure we had the occasional cheeze build but all in all on a competitive level AI is just never gonna compete with actual players.
So for PvE… While I’m not a fan of making spirit weapons the saving grace of guardians because I just don’t like pet classes with crappy AI in general (even phantasms just feel horribly boring to me) a buff to uptime, or even constant uptime like minions and a buff to damage could at least bridge the gap between guardian and the current meta classes DPS-wise. IMO a very nice change here would be to make the bow’s active a damaging AoE skill rather than a completely useless healing thing.
It’d be quite a lazy way of going about PvE balance, but it’d be something at least.
Spirit weapons should be a crossbreed between Minions and kits. When you press it once it deploys as an AI minion, When you press it a second time it equips like a kit. Or forget the AI part and make them kits, That would be pretty bad kitten in my opinion.
1: A weapon you summon for personal use similar to an ele conjure weapon, albeit one with high up time and allot of flexibility in what it can do since it is for your use only.
That should be saved for the supposed return of tomes.