Staff - Does it need adjusted?

Staff - Does it need adjusted?

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Posted by: Exedore.6320

Exedore.6320

Currently I have a love-hate relationship with the staff. Some aspects of it are really good some of the time, and others are just awful all-around and make me not want to use it. Here are my thoughts. I’d appreciate feedback.

General
The staff is intended as a support weapon, and I have no quarrel with that. However, it doesn’t support well. The support it offers is almost exclusively offensive in nature, but, the lack of offense of the staff itself, combined with channels on two major abilities greatly detracts from this. The abilities tend to be extremely situational and one-dimensional (they only have one function). To contrast, Flashing Blade on the sword can be used as a gap closer or a blind, which allows it to be used in more situations and presents the player with a choice in some. Lastly, and I feel this is the biggest detractor, only the longer cooldown abilities feel useful, which makes the staff feel like a “cooldown stick” rather than a weapon you’d want to keep out.

#1 Wave of Wrath
I find this ability absolutely useless. And when your weapon’s default attack feels useless, it has a huge negative impact on the weapon as a whole. What makes it bad is the terrible damage combined with the short range. If the staff is intended as offensive support, I would expect slightly higher damage to compensate for the increased danger. Conversely if the range was longer, it could justify the low damage. It seems it was balanced around the fact that it can hit 5 targets in a cone, which is often not the case.

#2 Orb of Light / Flash of Light
Ignoring the terrain collision bugs (including it sometimes not resetting the chain when it doesn’t collide), it’s an okay ability. But with such a short cooldown, it feels awkward – almost like it should be the auto-attack ability. The slow speed makes it impossible to hit anything that moves if you’re at the max range. In comparison, scepter #1 has a much higher attack speed, no cooldown, and faster travel time.

#3 Symbol of Swiftness
Aside from bugs (sometimes doesn’t add duration or doesn’t apply at all), it’s great. Swiftness by itself is offensive and defensive; it gives secondary uses of ranged area damage and a light combo field.

#4 Empowering Might
Seems great in theory, but has issues in practice. You’ll only really care about might when you want to do damage, which is generally an offensive scenario. However, that’s not so bad since 420 power and condition damage is pretty good. The problem is that in an offensive scenario and at medium range (I believe all boon abilities have a 600 range limit), the self-root makes you a sitting duck in PvP and many PvE situations. It’s an okay risk/reward, though I think the risk is a bit much for the reward.

#5 Line of Warding
Works decently in PvE because NPCs are too dumb to go around and will constantly run into it and be knocked down. However, stability, which most champions and some dungeon mobs have innately, renders its primary purpose completely useless. The secondary of a light field is still there at least. The cast time makes it hard to use while advancing or retreating because by the time it actually goes off, your targets have moved 600 range or more. In a retreat, that means you’ll be targeted and nuked down. In an advance, that means you need to be nearly on top of them in the first place.

Summary
I’ve tried staff in zones, dungeons, and WvW. For zones, it’s only useful for swiftness. The damage is too pitiful to do anything else with. For dungeons, again the pitiful damage and no support on short cooldown abilities makes me not want to use it. I’ll pull, throw down the Line of Warding (though only on trash since it doesn’t work on most bosses), empower, then weapon swap while it empower is on cooldown. Swiftness isn’t that great for dungeons and there’s little benefit to using the first two abilities over other weapons. WvW feels the same as dungeons, except swiftness is immensely powerful. The first two abilities still feel useless though.

Kirrena Rosenkreutz

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Posted by: Exedore.6320

Exedore.6320

(character limit hit)

Recommendations
I would like to see the staff have a better focus on offensive support, since the mace tends to cover defensive support, with the hammer being a balance of the two with damage. In addition to fixing bugs:
- Add damage to Line of Warding when enemies pass through it. This makes it feel less useless against immune opponents.
- Increase the cast speed of Line of Warding. This is to specifically allow it to be used a retreat mechanism in PvP.
- Change Wave of Wrath. I recommend 900 range (you’re about 600 yards from your melee, so you’ll be able to hit opposing melee as they move around) and re-balancing it for a lesser number of targets. Possibly even single target.
- Consider changing the Orb of Light detonate to yield a condition or boon. Since Empower has a heal at the end, the heal on detonate seems to have a lesser impact.
- Consider making Empower one second shorter (4s to 3s with 3stack/tick to 4stack/tick) or make the Might boons last a little longer. The latter could be a problem in a ranged group. This allows the guardian to keep up with a mobile group a little better and not be as restricted by instant death attacks in PvE that you have to dodge immediately.

Kirrena Rosenkreutz

(edited by Exedore.6320)

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Posted by: Grakor.3450

Grakor.3450

- Maybe make Orb of Light pierce targets (doesn’t stop when it hits something) with a longer cooldown. That would allow it to be fired into a group and hit something.

Er, it’s already piercing.

That said, I like staff and I think it’s in a pretty good place, as far as weapons go. I wouldn’t really call it “offensive support” so much as it’s the ranged defensive support, the alternative to mace main-hand. Both work much better on support/healing builds, and I think the staff is good enough at its job. The only thing I could think to change is maybe alter the 1, since it seems a little at odds with the rest of the weapon’s skills due to the stark range difference.

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Posted by: Xolo.3580

Xolo.3580

you find Wave of Wrath useless, wow. I think it’s one of the best autoattacks in the game. The range and rate of fire are incredible for a spammable cone aoe. Of course only when hitting multiple targets

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Posted by: Mana.6154

Mana.6154

I find wave of wrath REALLY good…

…when tagging mobs in a DE. Other than that, it’s basically worthless with the amount of damage it can put out. It’s much too low. I’d prefer if A-net narrowed the cone down, reduced mobbing to 3 targets max, and increased the damage of the autoattack.

Either that, or wave of wrath and orb of light can be switched around.

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Posted by: Exedore.6320

Exedore.6320

Er, it’s already piercing.

Ya, just noticed that. It was probably the myriad of terrain collision issues that it has, or the fact that the width is so small.

Kirrena Rosenkreutz

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Posted by: Alarox.4590

Alarox.4590

Wave of Wrath: It’s actually a great skill. It hits fast in a 600 range with a WIDE arc. At lv 80 with my gear, it’s hitting 1000-1200 damage per crit constantly to 5 enemies.

In PvE/WvW I find it to be very useful. That being said, I would much prefer this skill to be thinner and at a 900 range. It would make it overall more useful, effective, and fun to use.

Orb of Light: Hits pretty hard actually. The only issue is that it’s annoying to use and misses easily. The only time I find the detonate to be useful is when I need to double tap it for health or when it’s near the end of a fight and I was an AoE burst. When not in those situations, it’s frustrating because I have to watch the orb slowly float away and fade until I can use it again.

Symbol of Swiftness: Awesome.

Empowering Might: Let me move and maybe.

Line of Warding: Incredibly useful skill unless you’re fighting an enemy with Defiant/Stability. Other than that, it is useful in every scenario.

Alarox – Human Guardian
Rampage Wilson – Charr Engineer
Sea of Sorrows

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Posted by: Derpnoob.2875

Derpnoob.2875

i just wish it would have an aoe like the ele meteor shower or the rangers barrage

Derp

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Posted by: Aza.2105

Aza.2105

Wave of Wrath is good for killing volatile blossoms in Twilight Arbor. Other than that…..its bad.

Staff would be great if skills 1 and 2 were better. Currently the weapon is being held by skill 3, 4 and 5. All fantastic skills.

Amd Ryzen 1800x – Amd Fury X -64GB of ram
Windows 10

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Posted by: Brutaly.6257

Brutaly.6257

1. hits for 1.2k each crit in wvw and its great when laying down some serious supportive fire on the opponents front, narrow the cone down a bit and increase range and it would just super.
2. Only good thing about it, due to how slow it is, is the selfheal on detonation. Needs to be fixed..
3. Symbol of swiftness, very nice buff and also great aoe damage, hits as hard as 1. People seem to forget about the damage component.
4. Make it possible to move while using, the effect is very nice and in combination with altruisitc healing it is one of the best selfheals, besides the best groupbuff, out there. The only downside is that you are locked in place.
5. Great tool that can be used both in offense and in defense to shut down an area or as a mass-cc when place on top of the opponent.

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Posted by: Bravix.3497

Bravix.3497

Staff is great. Only weakpoint to it is #2.

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Posted by: Ynna.8769

Ynna.8769

I don’t really dislike the Staff, but I find the weapon “unfocused”. Other weapons have a clear goal to them, but apart from a general “support”-idea, the Staff seems to lack that goal.
The skills seem disjointed and don’t really fit together. Individually, the skills are more or less fine (might do with some tweaks, but nothing serious), but put together they just don’t provide an identity for the Staff.

@Exedore: During one of the beta events the devs told us that we could either get ground-targeted or no cast time on Line of Warding, but not both.

“Come on, hit me!”

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Posted by: Shadow.3475

Shadow.3475

Only i would like is longer attack range with it.

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Posted by: Thanerion.3721

Thanerion.3721

Staff #3 – 5 are well thought out abilities that synergise with the idea of guardian support. #2 seems a bit “well, it has to have 5 abilities, no? ok, let’s slap something with light and healing. ok”. And the reason #1 works like it works is clear: guardian didn’t have any ability to tag mobs while supporting, so they slapped it on staff’s autoattack.
It would be much better if the autoattack was actually range 900 and bouncing or 900 range exploding on impact. This would both help tagging and make staff a viable ranged choice.

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Posted by: Arkiels.9016

Arkiels.9016

- #4 with altruistic healing and lots of people around you makes you immortal, why would you want to move.

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Posted by: Yraen.9801

Yraen.9801

I find the auto attack on Staff to be decent, for it’s purpose. It’s not meant to be a single target DPS attack, obviously.

The Heal ball works very well in my experience, you just have to get the aiming part down (don’t angle your screen downwards).

Swiftness is… Swiftness. Not an amazing boon in PvE combat, but not terrible either.

The number 4 ability… I’ve had issues with this recently. I used to be able to heal and buff people near me with it, but my recent attempts have resulted in only myself being healed/buffed. I think this is probably a target prioritization issue. Heals/boons should prioritize players before pets/NPCs. This is a global AE healing issue, however.

The wall has it’s uses. I would prefer it be a bit longer, but it’s not bad as is.

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Posted by: arcdash.4039

arcdash.4039

So…staff is support yes? How about the autoattack give a short buff of some kind to allies in the cone? I don’t know…why not?

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Posted by: Tobeyeus.9376

Tobeyeus.9376

1. It isn’t the worst auto-attack in the game (Guardian Scepter is worse IMO), it has a few instances where it shines but I would have preferred an auto-attack like the Elementalist’s Scepter. Single target ranged auto-attack with blue flames that gave a small AoE heal to allies. Guardians have issues with ranged situations at least if their auto-attacks were decent they could survive in ranged stand offs without being a Boon Bot.

2. Buggy, difficult to use in any situation be it PvE or PvP. So easy to dodge even by mobs and I swear the range of the heal varies or simply doesn’t go off. I can’t think of a better replacement. But a fix wouldn’t help it simply needs replaced. The Trident 2. is better because it actually uses both axises.

3. Perfect!

4. I do agree the channel time could be reduced to 3 seconds and the stacks changed from 3 to 4 per second.

5. I think all walls should do damage to enemies that pass through them. It would make them more useful when the wall effect is cancelled out.

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Posted by: Khenzy.9348

Khenzy.9348

Hey Exedore, you may wanna check this thread I made a while ago: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Concerned-and-dissapointed-with-the-Staff/first#post139700

There is all I have to say about the Staff, but in short, I pretty much agree with you.

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Posted by: Darx.9842

Darx.9842

Changes I’d like to see:

1, Wave of Wrath: along with dealing damage to enemies, it also heals a small amount to allies in front of it.

4, Empowering Might: A channeled heal instead of a mass heal at the end. Or perhaps a regen that stacks on par with Might.

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Posted by: kousei.5914

kousei.5914

I don’t really dislike the Staff, but I find the weapon “unfocused”. Other weapons have a clear goal to them, but apart from a general “support”-idea, the Staff seems to lack that goal.
The skills seem disjointed and don’t really fit together. Individually, the skills are more or less fine (might do with some tweaks, but nothing serious), but put together they just don’t provide an identity for the Staff.

This. 100% this.

Leader of Marked Souls [MkS]
Jade Quarry

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Posted by: Leeain.2431

Leeain.2431

In my opinion Staff should be FULL supportive, no damage…
If you want damage just go greatsword.

Staff is good for healer and supportive player. Not for “wanna be dps”.

<b>Wave of Wrath</b>
I find this ability a little bit useless.
They should copy the mace mechanic.
- 3 hit, and the 3° hit should heal ally in front of you.

<b>Orb of Light / Flash of Light</b>
This sucks. the worst skill ever seen in the MMORPG history.
Change it.
Heal AoE in front of you?
The orb follow the friendly tagert direction?
It become a placeble skill area heal?
Change your autoattak in heal for a short time?
Don’t know… but change it with something USEFULL FOR REAL SUPPORT

<b>Symbol of Swiftness</b>
Is ok… i’ll just convert the damage in heal or regen or a boon.
But even like this is ok.
I like it!

<b>Empowering Might</b>
Is useless if I have to stay still in the position. Friendly target move out of range… and enemykittenme meanwhile!! T_T
50% of the time in pvp, if you are in the fray with low healt, use this is a suicide…
- 900y and not 600y is better.
- Allow me to move!!!!!!!!

<b>Line of Warding</b>
5° skill should be the strongest one. See the shield, or the others weapon… all the weapon are like this, but not the staff… staff got low performance for a big CD.
Right now is 50% useless…
- Reduce CD.
- Allow me to cast the wall in movment. If i’m running away and I have to stop for use it, all the enamy catch me.
- If an ally cross it it remove condition.

Sorry for the spelling mistakes, is not my language. :P

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Posted by: Ynna.8769

Ynna.8769

In my opinion Staff should be FULL supportive, no damage…
If you want damage just go Greatsword.

Staff is good for healer and supportive player. Not for “wanna be DPS”.

Pure support/healing goes against everything Arenanet wants in the game and doesn’t really work in terms of rewards.

Line of Warding
5° skill should be the strongest one. See the Shield, or the others weapon. All the weapon are like this, but not the Staff. The Staff got low performance for a big cooldown.

Line of Warding is an incredibly strong skill. Guardians are the only ones who can physically affect the battle. And as I said before in this thread, either we get cast while moving, ground targetable or instant cast, but we can only have one.

“Come on, hit me!”

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Posted by: Leeain.2431

Leeain.2431

The problem is that this is a full dps game.
Sometimes I have the sensation to play with a 3°person fantasy shoot em up. T_T

All the people who play support are penalized. Is not good in my opinion.

The original Anet idea was to hallow dps player to play even without tank and healer… but in the end they choose to kill the supportive game. :\
Not a good idea…

I’m getting boring to play GW2 cause since I was a kid (talking about baldur’s gate!!) I played supports… and now i’m forced to play dps…. and i don’t want it.

I’m not talking to revolutionize all the game… just to make 1 weapon full supportive and make this game fun for players like me who wanto to be healer and not only DPS.

About line of warding…
There are a lot of skills who ave ground target and istant cast… why not this?
Cause is “supportive”?
This game is getting “supportive racist”! :P

Come on… you call “incredibly strong” this stupid wall??
People can jump it! They can dodge it! They can walk around it!
I found this wall usefull just 30% times…
How many times dps skills are usefull? 90%…
Ooooh… so unbalanced… :\

Sorry for the spelling mistakes, is not my language. :P

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Posted by: Ynna.8769

Ynna.8769

It’s not a full DPS game, but damage is purposely made stronger than support and control. Support and control are things you should in between damage.
I understand what you’re saying (Really, I do. I play a supportive role in any multiplayer game I play, both on- and offline.) But that’s not the game Arenanet made and neither is it the game they advertised.
As much as I hate the phrase, and rally against it: maybe the game just isn’t for you.

About line of warding…
There are a lot of skills who have ground target and instant cast… Why not this?
Cause is “supportive”?

Because it’s a stupidly powerful ability when used right. And it’s not actually support. In the terms of Arenanet, it’s control.

“Come on, hit me!”

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Posted by: Leeain.2431

Leeain.2431

Maybe it is not for me… T_T

Is frustrating. I started GW1 since it was put on the market… i followed all the expansions… i farmed titles and all the things usefull for GW2…
I was whaiting this game since the fist time Anet announced it…

I can’t belive they disappointed me so much. T_T
Just if my girlfriend leaves me I can be more wounded. T_T
ok… i’m getting too much dramatic. XD

Anyway… yes, the wall is CC. right.
the good things is that all of usa agree with the idea that the staf can be better.
I hope Anet will consider it.

Sorry for the spelling mistakes, is not my language. :P

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Posted by: sirnibb.4709

sirnibb.4709

I love the staff. It’s such a good weapon if you use it right. The skills are meant to be used together. For instance, Use symbol of swiftness, throw your orb, and then use auto attack. That is how I use it in pve and spvp, you get a lot of damage on mobs, and you can usually tag everyone in an event. Utilize the traits for staff and two handed weapon cool-down reduction and you will find yourself loving this weapon a lot more.

Rank 80 guild wars 2 player.

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Posted by: Rainshine.5493

Rainshine.5493

I don’t really dislike the Staff, but I find the weapon “unfocused”. Other weapons have a clear goal to them, but apart from a general “support”-idea, the Staff seems to lack that goal.

I agree with this.

I use staff a lot — it’s nice for the run boost in WvW in particular, and with Empower is a fantastic force multiplier. I’ve used Line of Warding a lot too in both PvE and WvW, and that has its uses … I’d prefer it be insta-cast and non ground targetable if there has to be a choice between the two, though.

That said, it just feels clunky. It’s not a bad weapon on paper — even Wave of Wrath when pulling the Empower + Virtue of Justice trick is nice. However, if I’m not running anywhere and 4 and 5 skills are on cooldown, I only ever stay in staff as long as weapon swap cooldowns force me to.

Maybe I’m missing something, but yeah. Overall clunky feel.

Ruse Torrent (elementalist) on JQ
trixnotes tumblr: quick hits of lore | personal tumblr (some other GW2 stuff)

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Posted by: Ynna.8769

Ynna.8769

I’ve used Line of Warding a lot too in both PvE and WvW, and that has its uses … I’d prefer it be insta-cast and non ground targetable if there has to be a choice between the two, though.

It used to be like that in one of the Beta weekends. Trust me, the way it is now is better.

“Come on, hit me!”

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Posted by: Khenzy.9348

Khenzy.9348

I’ve used Line of Warding a lot too in both PvE and WvW, and that has its uses … I’d prefer it be insta-cast and non ground targetable if there has to be a choice between the two, though.

It used to be like that in one of the Beta weekends. Trust me, the way it is now is better.

It was never insta cast and I’ve been playing this since press beta, the only change made to Line of Warding is that it was made ground targetable. Which was a massive buff to the skill by the way, I agree there. I even think it’s a little too strong with 1200 range.

Also, just increase Wave of Wrath’s range, reduce the cone, make it hit less people and increase damage (Z axis too plz). Add AoE blind to Orb of Light’s detonation. Allow Empower to be used on the move and increase the uptime of the Might stacks. And be done with it!

(edited by Khenzy.9348)

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Posted by: Kaelith.2645

Kaelith.2645

I don’t think the staff necessarily needs to be readjusted. it works for what it’s intended to be.however I do feel we need a competent ranged weapon. The greatsword does so much damage, but there is just no option in situations where we need to back off and still do comparable dps.