Guild Wars 2

My guard almost 80 and now i need decide which armor make. Asking in guild they said Knight or Celestial and want to know pro guards opinion.

Berserker.

Aurellian is quite right, specify which type of content you´ll go, then you will get more helpfull answeres (and maybe more friendly „giving Aurellian a hug“)

Hope you´re fine Aurellian, good old mate, most imba PvE-Zerker-Guard-EU

Talking about PvE, forgot to mention :/ Don’t want be zerk, i have warrior for this.

Still Zerker is the best option available for PvE.

Shadow.9641:

Hope you´re fine Aurellian, good old mate, most imba PvE-Zerker-Guard-EU

Now that’s flattering, but it couldn’t be further from the truth. I’m just better than 95% of all those noob guards out there, but that isn’t difficult.

CptAurellian.9537:

Still Zerker is the best option available for PvE.

Shadow.9641:

Hope you´re fine Aurellian, good old mate, most imba PvE-Zerker-Guard-EU

Now that’s flattering, but it couldn’t be further from the truth. I’m just better than 95% of all those noob guards out there, but that isn’t difficult.

Lot of chat-guardians votes for celestial, i’m already start charging quartz(

It seems we were too late to save you.

“hey guys, what stats should I choose?”
“choose this”
“no”

…wat

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

Lot of chat-guardians votes for celestial, i’m already start charging quartz(

Great idea. Next time I’ll ask some random people in the city about the most efficient synthesis routes for some compounds I’m looking for. I’m sure they’ll have the perfect answer.

I would choose Knights over Celestial. if I had to choose.

If anet gives in and makes all bosses immune to crits like the best currently designed boss I would pick either carrion or if you want to play safe and be a bit more tanky – soldier.

CptAurellian.9537:

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

Lot of chat-guardians votes for celestial, i’m already start charging quartz(

Great idea. Next time I’ll ask some random people in the city about the most efficient synthesis routes for some compounds I’m looking for. I’m sure they’ll have the perfect answer.

People on forum random too

PvE = Zerker.

Celestial is not a good idea. The little you gain in Healing Power and Condition Damage and Toughness will not make up for what you lose in Power.

celestial is kittening trash for pve.

Frankly, Celestial is an anti-choice. It’s just buffs your baseline for everything, which is basically choosing nothing. At a minimum, I would advice you only use the Celestial that is optimizing stat returns (Chest and Legs IIRC)

Obtena.7952:

Frankly, Celestial is an anti-choice. It’s just buffs your baseline for everything, which is basically choosing nothing. At a minimum, I would advice you only use the Celestial that is optimizing stat returns (Chest and Legs IIRC)

So zerk is only choice?

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

So zerk is only choice?

Once again PVE elitist at its finest. If you can dodge every single big hit from boss, then yes.

But if you don’t absolutely have every single boss fight down, then add something a little more tanky really goes a long way. Keep in mind Anet is adding new content, good luck running new challenging content with a glass.

Normally when I run dungeon, I really don’t mind people take a little longer to kill the boss. It is the one that goes down every big hit that really kitten me off. Keep in mind if you goes down, not only are you not doing dps, the guy ressing you isn’t either. Think about that and don’t let the elitists get to you.

Celestial. Burning damage is cooler than you may think, especially in WvW, plus the resistance and vitality.

Zerker is overrated. Yes, it’s faster for dungeon runs, for now.
But seeing Twilight P4 design, dodging may not be sufficient in the future, to survive the content.
And when you can’t crit an object, you will cry as 2/3 of your stats are wasted.

Antares.2586:

Celestial. Burning damage is cooler than you may think, especially in WvW, plus the resistance and vitality.

Zerker is overrated. Yes, it’s faster for dungeon runs, for now.
But seeing Twilight P4 design, dodging may not be sufficient in the future, to survive the content.
And when you can’t crit an object, you will cry as 2/3 of your stats are wasted.

Thats the point too.. Ofcourse i could collect both sets, but there is a problem – Charr looking good only in T3 armor and it’s cost 120g, i have to choose one.

And i belive too that A-net gonna get rid of zerk-meta runs

bigmonto.4215:

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

So zerk is only choice?

Once again PVE elitist at its finest. If you can dodge every single big hit from boss, then yes.

But if you don’t absolutely have every single boss fight down, then add something a little more tanky really goes a long way. Keep in mind Anet is adding new content, good luck running new challenging content with a glass.

Normally when I run dungeon, I really don’t mind people take a little longer to kill the boss. It is the one that goes down every big hit that really kitten me off. Keep in mind if you goes down, not only are you not doing dps, the guy ressing you isn’t either. Think about that and don’t let the elitists get to you.

I’m tired of people calling it elitism. Look, there are too many encounters in this game that can 1-shot you regardless of whether you’re wearing PVT or Berserker. Wraithlord Crusher in Arah P3, for example, will 1-shot Bunkers and Zerkers alike.

So when people post stuff like, “Well it’s good to have balance and you know…” WHAT BALANCE? You can’t survive spike damage. You can’t do it. A character fighting Wraithlord Crusher in literally NO GEAR stands as good a chance to survive that hit as a character decked out in PVT.

And that begs the question: why use anything but gear that maximizes damage?

Obtena.7952:

Because there are other encounters that don’t 1 shot you.

Do you die during those encounters? I don’t. I don’t know many people who do.

As much as it grieves me to say it, difficulty with low-damage encounters is the quintessential L2Play problem.

Kilandros.2098:

bigmonto.4215:

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

So zerk is only choice?

Once again PVE elitist at its finest. If you can dodge every single big hit from boss, then yes.

But if you don’t absolutely have every single boss fight down, then add something a little more tanky really goes a long way. Keep in mind Anet is adding new content, good luck running new challenging content with a glass.

Normally when I run dungeon, I really don’t mind people take a little longer to kill the boss. It is the one that goes down every big hit that really kitten me off. Keep in mind if you goes down, not only are you not doing dps, the guy ressing you isn’t either. Think about that and don’t let the elitists get to you.

I’m tired of people calling it elitism. Look, there are too many encounters in this game that can 1-shot you regardless of whether you’re wearing PVT or Berserker. Wraithlord Crusher in Arah P3, for example, will 1-shot Bunkers and Zerkers alike.

So when people post stuff like, “Well it’s good to have balance and you know…” WHAT BALANCE? You can’t survive spike damage. You can’t do it. A character fighting Wraithlord Crusher in literally NO GEAR stands as good a chance to survive that hit as a character decked out in PVT.

And that begs the question: why use anything but gear that maximizes damage?

When others begin calling your gear choices, or any type of choice at all, crap because it doesn’t conform to their standards, that becomes elitism.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Kilandros.2098:

bigmonto.4215:

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

So zerk is only choice?

Once again PVE elitist at its finest. If you can dodge every single big hit from boss, then yes.

But if you don’t absolutely have every single boss fight down, then add something a little more tanky really goes a long way. Keep in mind Anet is adding new content, good luck running new challenging content with a glass.

Normally when I run dungeon, I really don’t mind people take a little longer to kill the boss. It is the one that goes down every big hit that really kitten me off. Keep in mind if you goes down, not only are you not doing dps, the guy ressing you isn’t either. Think about that and don’t let the elitists get to you.

I’m tired of people calling it elitism. Look, there are too many encounters in this game that can 1-shot you regardless of whether you’re wearing PVT or Berserker. Wraithlord Crusher in Arah P3, for example, will 1-shot Bunkers and Zerkers alike.

So when people post stuff like, “Well it’s good to have balance and you know…” WHAT BALANCE? You can’t survive spike damage. You can’t do it. A character fighting Wraithlord Crusher in literally NO GEAR stands as good a chance to survive that hit as a character decked out in PVT.

And that begs the question: why use anything but gear that maximizes damage?

When others begin calling your gear choices, or any type of choice at all, crap because it doesn’t conform to their standards, that becomes elitism.

I certainly didn’t call it “crap.” But I stand by my statement that it isn’t effective. I used to run PVT and was a die-hard believer in its efficacy—until someone on the forums posted the numbers comparing PVT to Zerker gear. The gap is damage reduction is actually quite narrow—and non-existent for many boss encounters. Thinking that math does not always translate well into practical application, I began testing for myself doing FoTM runs in PVT gear and then Zerker gear. Sure enough, the survivability gained from PVT was so negligible I’d hazard to call it entirely inconsequential. But the DPS gains from Zerker were profound.

Look, it’s bad game design. Dodge is OP. The Devs know it’s OP so they keep installing MASSIVE spike damage that can only be mitigated through dodging. As long as that’s the game design—as long as you can dodge with impunity to survive encounters—DPS will be more effective. No one’s saying you can’t play or contribute in PVT. But are you contributing as much? Probably not. Are you capping your potential? Probably yes.

The numbers are out there. Pound your chest all you want, it’s clear to most players what is and is not optimal, and it isn’t Bunker in PvE.

No, what’s clear is that it’s your choice. Don’t try to force it on other people because it doesn’t matter what you think is optimal or not. Correct yourself and say that it isn’t effective for YOU. Don’t try to push that junk onto other people.

Also, I wasn’t accusing you specificially. I certainly was paraphrasing all the crap on here, but that is indeed the general attitude of most proponents of Zerker gear here.

Here’s a quote that’s quite perfect for how this thread has developed:

Zerkers in every profession are specialised and tend to be very unforgiving if any mistakes are made since you’ll be taking incredible amount of damage in exchange for you dealing the same to others.

It’s a very split second, on the ball, pick your moments kind of gameplay and that really isn’t for everyone since some people find it more stressful than enjoyable. If you play a flawless game then there isn’t much you can’t rip to pieces however 1 mistake could be you in the downed state wondering what 1 shot you.

Take it for what you feel its worth.

Kilandros.2098:

Obtena.7952:

Because there are other encounters that don’t 1 shot you.

Do you die during those encounters? I don’t. I don’t know many people who do.

As much as it grieves me to say it, difficulty with low-damage encounters is the quintessential L2Play problem.

Guess what kitten happens, and you are not a bot. If you don’t die, or not close to dying, then yeah Zerker is the best for you. I never said otherwise. But that’s not for most people.

If you expect that everyone need to know exactly how each boss works, the first time they step foot in the dungeon, or that they allow no mistake and they must dodge in the perfect timing, then I have the right to call you an elitist.

This is a game, and half of the fun is to experience the content yourself, and not looking up on youtube and figure out what the boss do before you set foot in it. Unless you really enjoy grinding the same path you know all the time, have a more balanced set does give you more flexibility.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

No, what’s clear is that it’s your choice. Don’t try to force it on other people because it doesn’t matter what you think is optimal or not. Correct yourself and say that it isn’t effective for YOU. Don’t try to push that junk onto other people.

Also, I wasn’t accusing you specificially. I certainly was paraphrasing all the crap on here, but that is indeed the general attitude of most proponents of Zerker gear here.

Here’s a quote that’s quite perfect for how this thread has developed:

Zerkers in every profession are specialised and tend to be very unforgiving if any mistakes are made since you’ll be taking incredible amount of damage in exchange for you dealing the same to others.

It’s a very split second, on the ball, pick your moments kind of gameplay and that really isn’t for everyone since some people find it more stressful than enjoyable. If you play a flawless game then there isn’t much you can’t rip to pieces however 1 mistake could be you in the downed state wondering what 1 shot you.

Take it for what you feel its worth.

Awhile back someone posted a list of of every encounter with 1-shot mechanics and the percentage of damage dealt by those 1-shot mechanics. Every single one of them dealt damage often in excess of 300% of a character’s health. It was then determined that no composition of gear currently available could mitigate that damage to such a degree that it was no longer an instant down scenario. That isn’t subjective; that isn’t me saying what works for me should work for everyone else. That’s objective data showing you that PVT armor confers no benefit over Zerker during encounters with 1-shot mechanic.

There is no “Zerker is really unforgiving and you can’t make any mistakes” here. If you miss a dodge in those situations you’re going down regardless.

Now let’s take away those serious encounters for the sake of argument. What are we left with? Trash mobs essentially. Accepting the math, you’re basically advocating PVT gear because it offers an advantage for trash mobs?

It stinks having to rehash this topic over and over and over. But you guys keep saying the same things: “You’re all elitists” or “There’s no right answer.”

The truth is there is a “right” answer and it’s Zerker. Blame game design and OP dodge. Blame it all day. Hell, I’ll join you because I agree it sucks. But don’t get mad at players for gravitating toward a meta that is objectively superior.

The problem is that you think its “objectively” superior. But we keep telling you, its not. People have different play styles. They like to do different things not just running dungeons or killing bosses. Personally I can pull 10 to 20 mobs in orr, and ww them to death in celetrial + zerker gear, I can’t do that in full zerker. If I am in full zerker gear, even just accidentally pull a champion in orr, I could be in trouble. Its risk and reward. Personally I don’t like the headache when I am running to Grenth.

Even though the OP do pve mostly, are you going to say that he should never set foot in WvW? Good luck with full zerker there.

We are also not comparing full PVT here. You have seem the numbers for PVT, but can you guarantee the huge difference for every other set, or every other mixture of sets.

Actually full PVT with sharpening stone will likely out damage Zerker in world bosses.

bigmonto.4215:

The problem is that you think its “objectively” superior. But we keep telling you, its not. People have different play styles. They like to do different things not just running dungeons or killing bosses. Personally I can pull 10 to 20 mobs in orr, and ww them to death in celetrial + zerker gear, I can’t do that in full zerker. If I am in full zerker gear, even just accidentally pull a champion in orr, I could be in trouble. Its risk and reward. Personally I don’t like the headache when I am running to Grenth.

Even though the OP do pve mostly, are you going to say that he should never set foot in WvW? Good luck with full zerker there.

We are also not comparing full PVT here. You have seem the numbers for PVT, but can you guarantee the huge difference for every other set, or every other mixture of sets.

Disclaimer: I’m talking PvE only. I have a PVT set for WvW.

Last post and then I’m out.

It is objectively superior. The numbers don’t lie. As I said above, no mixture of sets will provide sufficient mitigation of major spike damage to keep a player alive. Furthermore, the gap in damage reduction between full Bunker and Zerker is demonstrably (i.e., numbers have been shown to prove it) narrow.

You might feel more comfortable in certain gear, and you might honestly believe that certain gear makes you a better player. But the numbers have demonstrated over and over that, in PvE, Zerker is superior. The data and the math is what makes my argument objective. Your anecdotes are, by definition, subjective.

I wish I was wrong; I wish GW2 wasn’t a race to the highest DPS. But it is.

Thanks for the discussion. Good luck.

Kilandros.2098:

I wish I was wrong; I wish GW2 wasn’t a race to the highest DPS. But it is.

Ha, so true. Sometimes I really miss the good old trinity.

It seems people can’t even suggest zerker gear without being called elitists these days…

Kilandros.2098:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

No, what’s clear is that it’s your choice. Don’t try to force it on other people because it doesn’t matter what you think is optimal or not. Correct yourself and say that it isn’t effective for YOU. Don’t try to push that junk onto other people.

Also, I wasn’t accusing you specificially. I certainly was paraphrasing all the crap on here, but that is indeed the general attitude of most proponents of Zerker gear here.

Here’s a quote that’s quite perfect for how this thread has developed:

Zerkers in every profession are specialised and tend to be very unforgiving if any mistakes are made since you’ll be taking incredible amount of damage in exchange for you dealing the same to others.

It’s a very split second, on the ball, pick your moments kind of gameplay and that really isn’t for everyone since some people find it more stressful than enjoyable. If you play a flawless game then there isn’t much you can’t rip to pieces however 1 mistake could be you in the downed state wondering what 1 shot you.

Take it for what you feel its worth.

Awhile back someone posted a list of of every encounter with 1-shot mechanics and the percentage of damage dealt by those 1-shot mechanics. Every single one of them dealt damage often in excess of 300% of a character’s health. It was then determined that no composition of gear currently available could mitigate that damage to such a degree that it was no longer an instant down scenario. That isn’t subjective; that isn’t me saying what works for me should work for everyone else. That’s objective data showing you that PVT armor confers no benefit over Zerker during encounters with 1-shot mechanic.

There is no “Zerker is really unforgiving and you can’t make any mistakes” here. If you miss a dodge in those situations you’re going down regardless.

Now let’s take away those serious encounters for the sake of argument. What are we left with? Trash mobs essentially. Accepting the math, you’re basically advocating PVT gear because it offers an advantage for trash mobs?

It stinks having to rehash this topic over and over and over. But you guys keep saying the same things: “You’re all elitists” or “There’s no right answer.”

The truth is there is a “right” answer and it’s Zerker. Blame game design and OP dodge. Blame it all day. Hell, I’ll join you because I agree it sucks. But don’t get mad at players for gravitating toward a meta that is objectively superior.

Math or not, some people absolutely do not have lightning fast reflexes and occasionally miss dodges. I am one of them. A pack of trash mods does sometimes cause me trouble. If I’m running zerker gear, I have to pop a lot of stuff I’d rather not to stay alive. Therefore, your views, your opinion. And your opinion IS subjective.

Factor that in.

Adam.4103:

It seems people can’t even suggest zerker gear without being called elitists these days…

That’s because most of those that do suggest it have the attitude.

If the shoe fits m8, if the shoe fits…

Can you link to the reference to that you claim the number is coming from. In general you are right the numbers don’t lie, but the number usually only covers a very specific context.

In this case you are only talking about the content in which a boss does one-shot you. I am welling to bet there are far more instance of player going into down state from various source of dam than being 1-shotted by a boss. For example I am far more likely to get mobbed by 10 Orr mobs than 1-shotted by an Orr priest, simply because I know the attack is coming and I don’t fight a particular Priest as often as running through Orr. Wearing a tankier set allows me grater chance to survive most situations in exchange for a bit slower killing. I’ll take that. If you don’t I’ll respect that, but that’s your choice.

Most of the bosses in dungeons don’t one shot people, at least I have not seem a huge amount. There are far more attacks that does a huge amount of dam, or even over time it does a huge amount of damage. But you can potentially mitigate with armor, toughness and protections.

Adam.4103:

It seems people can’t even suggest zerker gear without being called elitists these days…

The issue is not suggesting Zerker gear. Heck most of my pieces are Zerker, and I would suggest people to use some Zerker pieces at least for direct dam builds. The issue is the attitude: Zerker is the only way and all other choice sucks, or that if you die wearing full Zerker, you need to l2p.

bigmonto.4215:

Can you link to the reference to that you claim the number is coming from. In general you are right the numbers don’t lie, but the number usually only covers a very specific context.

In this case you are only talking about the content in which a boss does one-shot you. I am welling to bet there are far more instance of player going into down state from various source of dam than being 1-shotted by a boss. For example I am far more likely to get mobbed by 10 Orr mobs than 1-shotted by an Orr priest, simply because I know the attack is coming and I don’t fight a particular Priest as often as running through Orr. Wearing a tankier set allows me grater chance to survive most situations in exchange for a bit slower killing. I’ll take that. If you don’t I’ll respect that, but that’s your choice.

Most of the bosses in dungeons don’t one shot people, at least I have not seem a huge amount. There are far more attacks that does a huge amount of dam, or even over time it does a huge amount of damage. But you can potentially mitigate with armor, toughness and protections.

There’s also this thing called dodging.

Adam.4103:

There’s also this thing called dodging.

That’s the smirk attitude I am talking about. There is this thing called running out of energy. There is this thing called kitten happens. There is this thing called get knocked down when the stun breaker is on cool down.

So many argues.. You confuse me even more.

What about weapon? Greatsword or Hammer?

And by the way – party expecting from guard support and defense

Maybe try knights set first with zerker weapons and trinkets? 0/30/0/30/10 is still viable for pugging and support with condi removal via shouts, consecrations. You can use a sword and focus build and swap to GS. Better precision with knights so you can crit more for more dodges. If you need more survivability add soldier runes, if not ruby orbs is just fine.

Party support by cleansing conditions, F1 blind spam for trash mobs, aegis blocking big hits, reflect projectiles with wall when needed, and pulling mobs with GS, swapping to hammer auto for more protection, burst heal with virtures + renewed focus while still hitting hard with respectable damage.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

If you want the optimal setup, berserker gear in all slots is the way to go. The better you are, the more redundant defensive stats are; this is just how the game is designed. If, however you want some kind of a balance, then you can mix and match some gear pieces which have Power on them to find the medium that you like.

As for traits, if you like GS and sword+focus, I would recommend either:

10/30/0/5/25 or 10/30/0/10/20

If you’re a fan of hammer, and maybe mace (mace isn’t so great, but you can use it):

15/15/0/20/20

These traits combined with berserker/power gear will allow you to maintain high damage output, as well as have a bit of extra team utility via traits (condi removal, cooldown reductions on spirit weapons, shout cooldown etc).

I would highly recommend that you seriously consider running full berserker gear and getting used to it; but I get called an elitist whenever I try to make that suggestion, so play how you want I guess.

…

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

And by the way – party expecting from guard support and defense

‘shrug’ Well, you know, both of them can easily come from a zerker guardian. In that case, the zerker guy is usually even more effective in the support than some kind of PVT or whatever scrub. Of course, if the party equals support with healing, than you’ve found a bunch of very dumb people.