Guild Wars 2

Anyone done any testing in a group/raid setting on which is more helpful against higher numbers or more helpful in sustained fight? I understand communal defenses has 15sec ICD where kitten u can keep 150 strength from SiN 100% of time in party but which one you chose and why?

Communal defenses has no limit for granting aegis to allies. You can be surrounded by 20 ppl and all of them would get aegis while strength in numbers only applies to your teammates.

The difference also applies to what traits you might have that proc on aegis, and the amount of dps taken by allies, both power and condi based.

Pure of voice, retal on aegis, and shattered aegis all push in favor of Communal defenses. Heavy condi damage does also (ignoring toughness, but conditions are applied by attacks, which aegis can stop and maybe proc additional traits). Frequent power damage pushes in favor of SiN, as aegis will only stop one hit every 15s at best, while the extra toughness will be available always.

Ultimately, there are a ton of factors that would go into that kind of decision.

Strength in numbers (it’s 150 toughness), since Aegis only protects from one hit which is of limited usefulness given the cooldown unless you run it with other aegis traits.

However, if your group already has guardians running strength in numbers so that it adequately covers everyone, then you could always take communal defenses, because strength in numbers doesn’t stack anyways. In most reasonable scenarios your group can usually have both as long as you get some guardians to run strength in numbers.

Ghotistyx.6942:

The difference also applies to what traits you might have that proc on aegis, and the amount of dps taken by allies, both power and condi based.

Pure of voice, retal on aegis, and shattered aegis all push in favor of Communal defenses. Heavy condi damage does also (ignoring toughness, but conditions are applied by attacks, which aegis can stop and maybe proc additional traits). Frequent power damage pushes in favor of SiN, as aegis will only stop one hit every 15s at best, while the extra toughness will be available always.

Ultimately, there are a ton of factors that would go into that kind of decision.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQJASWlsAhShYrQwXIQQEHLEV++yv+DfBdQJcDgvcAA-TFiFAB8pE0IlBA8EAIU9HqU6ty+DJcJAQTXApAYSYE-w

Since putting up aegis on yourself isn’t a problem for guard its a guaranteed aegis on whole group every 15 sec. Even without shattered aegis or aegis heals etc I think it could be worth losing the 150 toughness. If you run 2 guards in party and they both have absolute resolution you get aegis every 30 secs passively. Retreat gives aegis to you and your party (30 sec icd), so does retalitatory subconcious (30 sec icd), Valorous Defense (30 sec icd), and shelter block will proc this too. So sources of aegis not a problem.

Am I correct in assuming the following:
1) 2 guardian party engages fight. Both carry passive aegis. The aegis blocks a attack. It procs the trait on both and everyone get’s another aegis.
2) Second guardian’s aegis triggers block and aegis refreshes again on everyone if they both aren’t attacked at exact same sec.
3) Guardians can then pop retreat to keep up another aegis/swiftness on everyone.
4) Melee resets after 10-15 secs and cycle starts over.

So it would be actually minimum of 4 attacks for guardians and 2 attacks for everyone else if you have both guards block instead of strength in numbers no?

Let’s say 2 guards in a 5 man party, both carry CD.

1/2) Guard 1 overwrites Guard 2’s aegis and CD didn’t give Guard 1 another aegis. Guard 2 blocks a new attack after Guard 1, reapplies aegis to guard 1, but no longer has aegis. The party members will either block 1 or 2 attacks, depending on when each CD procs. G1 can block a max 2 attacks, G2 can only block 1, party members can block 2 max.

3) G1 and G2 can each apply retreat for 2 more party wide blocks

4) after 15s CD is back up, and the next block (aegis or not) will proc the trait.

Multiple guards with CD can be fairly effective, but only if a) their cooldowns aren’t synched, and b) each application of aegis is used up, especially if there are aegis traits. 5 CD Guards with damage, retal, and healing on aegis in a tight group of 25 could be nasty to encounter. It’s also extremely effective at places like Teq, possibly doing over well 100k damage per guardian at the burn phases. (I’ve hit 100k+ pre patch, so I can only imagine how high it can go now)

Ghotistyx.6942:

Let’s say 2 guards in a 5 man party, both carry CD.

1/2) Guard 1 overwrites Guard 2’s aegis and CD didn’t give Guard 1 another aegis. Guard 2 blocks a new attack after Guard 1, reapplies aegis to guard 1, but no longer has aegis. The party members will either block 1 or 2 attacks, depending on when each CD procs. G1 can block a max 2 attacks, G2 can only block 1, party members can block 2 max.

3) G1 and G2 can each apply retreat for 2 more party wide blocks

4) after 15s CD is back up, and the next block (aegis or not) will proc the trait.

Multiple guards with CD can be fairly effective, but only if a) their cooldowns aren’t synched, and b) each application of aegis is used up, especially if there are aegis traits. 5 CD Guards with damage, retal, and healing on aegis in a tight group of 25 could be nasty to encounter. It’s also extremely effective at places like Teq, possibly doing over well 100k damage per guardian at the burn phases. (I’ve hit 100k+ pre patch, so I can only imagine how high it can go now)

a) It’s kinda hard to trigger aegis separately timing wise. Does popping virtue of courage remove passive aegis every 30 secs? Timing all other stuff is really hard though. Plenty of ways to get aegis and block with it.
b) I would imagine it would get used up. I am really not that into the heal on aegis or damage on aegis but if it can keep the group sustain would be better then SiN’s flat damage reduction.

a) I think so?, but I haven’t been able to play for awhile. You could test this yourself though

b) The build I mentioned is build around CD, and has potential to be strong, though somewhat unreliable. I know grin the build you linked you had other thoughts. When it comes down to CD or SiN, I personally believe CD will be stronger, especially if it has at least one block based trait. A 50/50 split would probably be acceptable for guardians in a zerg

a) yes it does – although Courageous Return will restore it early if you have it traited ( and you res someone, or get res’d ) – it’s a little buggy though

I can’t test it now, but I thought I read somewhere that CD had a shared cooldown across Guardians, so that once one Guardian’s CD activated, it would be 15 seconds before another Guardian’s could. That would prevent zergs from abusing the trait by stacking multiple Guardians and generating long chains of Aegis procs on the entire group. It makes sense and would push the choice back in favor of SiN, but it would be great if someone could confirm or deny that this is actually how the trait works.

Soryuju.8164:

I can’t test it now, but I thought I read somewhere that CD had a shared cooldown across Guardians, so that once one Guardian’s CD activated, it would be 15 seconds before another Guardian’s could. That would prevent zergs from abusing the trait by stacking multiple Guardians and generating long chains of Aegis procs on the entire group. It makes sense and would push the choice back in favor of SiN, but it would be great if someone could confirm or deny that this is actually how the trait works.

Hmm. I will need to test this then. I hope not because then it’s useless…