Guild Wars 2

As ANet has recently been doing QoL improvements for unused skills and utilities, I would like to forward some suggestions regarding the guardian staff. Some things on this list I’ve posted earlier on a different thread but these are the revised versions. I’ve also kept this thread focused on a single subject.

Old thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Suggestion-Staff-honor-and-shout-reworks/first#post6185326

1. Wave of Wrath – Added functionality as it now heals allies as well by 125 healing baseline, 0.05 scaling from healing power. Damage reduced by 20%. Targets allies and enemies independently, 5 target limit on both.

If somebody doesn’t know how healing power scales, 0.05 basically means gaining 50 healing from 1000 healing power. At 2000 healing power that would be 100 more healing, for example.

2. Orb of Light – I actually have 3 different suggestions as follows.
A. Merge it with the detonation and allow us to ground target this skill. Cooldown 8ish seconds. This would be the easiest QoL improvement, as it doesn’t entirely change how this skill functions.
B. Have it bounce between foes and allies, damaging foes and healing allies. 750ish damage/healing per bounce baseline. 4 bounces with a bounce range of 300. Initial range remains the same. Cooldown 8ish seconds. This is my least favorite idea but posted it because well.. There’s never too many ideas.
C. The entirely original idea for a new skill. Remove Orb of Light in favor of:
Anvil of Light – Call down a column of holy fire that heals allies and damages foes
Damage x4: 552
Healing x4: 285 (Healing Power scaling 0.175)
Duration: 3 seconds
Radius: 180
Combo Field: Fire
Range: 1200
Casting time: 1 s
Cooldown: 10 seconds
This would bring some powercreep to the staff, but is it enough to overshadow other weapons? I don’t know. This is obviously my favorite as it’s my own idea. Inspired by Smite Monks of GW1 and Lava Font. ^^

3. Symbol of Swiftness.
Standing still to gain more speed? Let’s face it, this skill has never been particularly good at what it’s supposed to do.
So, I propose replacing the Swiftness with Resistance(1s per pulse), and increasing the skills cooldown to 25s. I also think that the symbols uptime should be reduced to 3s, down from 4. The damage should be re-adjusted to do the same amount in a shorter time but it would cut down the resi uptime to 4s baseline. That would be 5s with the staff trait, 7.2s with it and WoP; 6s with WoP alone. (WoP = Writ of Persistence)
The name could be changed to reflect the new functionality, Symbol of Tenacity maybe?
PS. I considered Quickness for this as well but came to the conclusion that it synergizes way too well with other guard aspects, and with Chronomancer and Herald for raiding. The only option would’ve been to have a 40+ seconds of cooldown in order to avoid 100% easy uptime for 5 people, which is too much for a weapon skill either way.

4. Empower – This is quite simple, the Swiftness that I removed from #3 is now here. It pulses along with the Might, 4s per pulse. I would also like this skill to be unrooted. The base healing could be better as well.

5. Line of Warding – I feel like the numbers for this are on point for what it does, and I really can’t think of anything more that would make this skill feel unique, so I’m content to leave it as it is.

Any questions, criticisms or feedback? Let me know, I’m open to suggestions. I might be tunnel visioning, and missing some obvious problems.
Edited for easier readability.

Actually, I really like these ideas. Granted I’m just now moving from Warrior to Guardian, so I certainly lack experience. On skill 2 I like your suggestion. I don’t see it as a power creep threat since the target could move out of the AoE. My only dislike is your proposed change to skill 4. The animation, and thus rooting, seems nostalgic. I don’t know if the source of my feeling comes from something in GW1 or just years of watching Guardians in GW2. Was there even a skill similar in animation in GW1? I can’t remember, it’s been to long.

Well, even if Empower were still rooted, it would still improve upon the “standing still to go faster”-problem. Not entirely make it go away but still. However in my mind, nostalgia is something we can give up in favor of QoL. I shall think about this.

I personal really like these ideas skill 1 brings it more in line as a light support weapon which it always seemed to be what they intended but kind missed the mark, skill 2 if they would go with it I would love to see your anvil of light suggestion not only does it fit thematically but it accomplishes what I feel that skill should have done from the onset, skill 3 needs to be done but that being said I think they are going to be resistant to give the guardian resistance wish it wasn’t the case but I feel the guardian should have had from when they first brought in with HoT but we didn’t get it. I hope they could come to accept that it works without pushing the power creep to much and the swiftness change between skill 3 to skill 4 along dropping the rooting issue works nicely , I have also seen an interesting suggestion on Empower with Altruistic Healing trait that along with the Guardian getting healed for every boon he gives that it also heals his allies for half of that amount. Now all of this being said I do think some of these changes would be best implemented by tying them to traits so that you keep the power creep in line but there would also be a trade off. Overall these some really interesting ideas.

Is it so good it’s boring, or what is up with the commenting here?

Disclaimer: The following is based off of a PvE raiding perspective.

While I like the idea of Guardian staff getting buffed (practically anything is an improvement), the ideas here would barely help. The change to #1 and #2 are great ideas, and I have even thought of the exact same changes, the problem for #1 lies in the scaling. Under 0.05 scaling it is pretty pitiful healing, just look at Elementalist staff scaling and how it heals upwards for 1.2k on autos. Yes it doesn’t hit 5 targets for damage but it does have 1200 range and can be ground targeted to heal others.

The suggestion for the symbol is an awesome idea that I can get behind. Would be sweet if it did a secondary effect like all of our newer symbols are doing now (blind on sword, extra hits on scepter, burn on bow). I’d suggest making it cleanse 1 condition on drop or heal per pulse baseline (which with writ would increase the healing farther).

For ability #4, the reason healing Guardian is now brought to heal for raids is because Grace of the Land is way to powerful. Yes the increase to affect all 10 people was a great change, but you will always have to bring at least 1 druid, though probably 2 for spirits. I am of the opinion to remove might from the ability and make it pulse healing and at the end explode for 5 stacks of Grace of the Land or something equivalent. The main problem with this ability is two-fold. The first you did identify which is lack of movement in a game based on moving constantly. The second problem is that the might is mostly useless because you will over cap it.

I believe #5 can use a secondary effect for allies. Against enemies it is fine, for allies this is where you could place a swiftness buff just like the mesmer curtain or make it heal those who pass through.

Another problem with the staff, and healing Guardian in general, is that you need to spend a trait on aegis healing instead of getting it as a minor (like in place of might on blocking maybe? I know, different tree but Honor’s minors are in a good spot). This means if you want to take empowering or the staff trait you reduce your healing by a significant amount so you never have a choice IMO.

TLDR: The ideas are good but there needs to be some ground breaking changes to make it viable in most formats.

Azoqu.8917:

While I like the idea of Guardian staff getting buffed (practically anything is an improvement), the ideas here would barely help. The change to #1 and #2 are great ideas, and I have even thought of the exact same changes, the problem for #1 lies in the scaling. Under 0.05 scaling it is pretty pitiful healing, just look at Elementalist staff scaling and how it heals upwards for 1.2k on autos. Yes it doesn’t hit 5 targets for damage but it does have 1200 range and can be ground targeted to heal others.

I left the numbers small on purpose, as I wanted to have a low starting point for buffing them to required/reasonable levels later. What you have to consider though is that Guardian staff AA is almost twice as fast as Eles Water AA, and Guardian can dish out equal/a bit more outgoing healing than ele can with Force of Will, if you stat into vitality.
I believe the ideal Raid Healing gear for guardian would be Zealot’s or a combination of Seraph/Shaman gear if you go condi(not sure if that’s viable).
I had the HP scaling at 0.15 before making the thread but decided on changing it at the last minute. What do you think would be a reasonable scaling for it?

Azoqu.8917:

The suggestion for the symbol is an awesome idea that I can get behind. Would be sweet if it did a secondary effect like all of our newer symbols are doing now (blind on sword, extra hits on scepter, burn on bow). I’d suggest making it cleanse 1 condition on drop or heal per pulse baseline (which with writ would increase the healing farther).

I can get behind the heal per pulse as a baseline ability. Around 650 baseline with a scaling of 0.3?

Azoqu.8917:

For ability #4, the reason healing Guardian is now brought to heal for raids is because Grace of the Land is way to powerful. Yes the increase to affect all 10 people was a great change, but you will always have to bring at least 1 druid, though probably 2 for spirits. I am of the opinion to remove might from the ability and make it pulse healing and at the end explode for 5 stacks of Grace of the Land or something equivalent. The main problem with this ability is two-fold. The first you did identify which is lack of movement in a game based on moving constantly. The second problem is that the might is mostly useless because you will over cap it.

I guess this was supposed to read as “not brought to heal for raids”?
The rooting effect of Empower currently is a common known issue with the skill so I won’t take credit for identifying that.
I’m not a fan of copy-pasting GotL into this and I don’t think all of the skills have to serve raiding. However, over-abundance of Might is present in other game modes as well. I will think about it and try to come up something.

Azoqu.8917:

I believe #5 can use a secondary effect for allies. Against enemies it is fine, for allies this is where you could place a swiftness buff just like the mesmer curtain or make it heal those who pass through.

I would actually like to make it cleanse conditions for allies. You suggested it for the symbol but I think it fits better here.

Azoqu.8917:

Another problem with the staff, and healing Guardian in general, is that you need to spend a trait on aegis healing instead of getting it as a minor (like in place of might on blocking maybe? I know, different tree but Honor’s minors are in a good spot). This means if you want to take empowering or the staff trait you reduce your healing by a significant amount so you never have a choice IMO.

Traits are another can of worms I don’t really want to go into here, so just a few points:

-But I do believe that Pure of Heart could be merged with Communal Defenses in Valor.
-Purity of Body should also be merged with Battle Presence in Virtues, and Writ of Persistence made into the Honor Grandmaster Minor trait.
-Additionally, Empowering Might should be stronger.

Updated & A bit more concise.

1. Wave of Wrath – Added functionality as it now heals allies as well by 145 healing baseline, 0.15 scaling from healing power. Damage reduced by 20%. Targets allies and enemies independently, 5 target limit on both.
Both baseline healing and HP scaling have been improved slightly. I think it should now hit a sweet spot between Druid Staff AA and Ele Water Staff AA.

2. Remove Orb of Light in favor of:
Anvil of Light – Call down a column of holy fire that heals allies and damages foes
Damage x4: 552
Healing x4: 405 (Healing Power scaling 0.2)
Duration: 3 seconds
Radius: 180
Combo Field: Fire
Range: 1200
Casting time: 1 s
Cooldown: 10 seconds
Putting this forward as my first choice, as people seem to like it. Base healing and scaling slightly improved.

3. Symbol of Tenacity.
Damage(x4): 1215
Resistance: 1 s
Weakness: 1 s
Targets: 5
Symbol Duration: 3 s
Radius: 180
Combo Field: Light
Range: 1200
Cooldown: 25 s

4. Empower – Fully rehauled.
Release two powerful bursts of light that heal allies around you.
Casting Time: 1, 25 s
Swiftness(x2): 6 s
First Pulse Healing: 740 (scaling 0.4)
Second Pulse Healing: 1360 (scaling 0.6)
Combo Finisher: Blast(x2)
Radius: 400
Cooldown: 20 s
It’s also unrooted now but I understand this might be a bit more difficult as it’s basically embedded in the animation.

5. Line of Warding
Added functionality: Allies crossing the ward have their conditions cleansed.
Conditions cleansed: 1
Max conditions cleansed(per ally): 5

Just bumping. Not quite ready to let this die off.

I do realize this is mostly just wishful thinking, but would still like more feedback. ^^

I much prefer having low base and increasing the scaling. When I made my own mock up for changing the staff, I used VoR as my base for hps. Without investment, VoR heals for a literal 88hps so I felt staff should be close. With high investment, you can get into the 300s, and that seems pretty decent when combined with all the other sources of healing you can put with it. Staff 1 doesn’t take a lot of effort to drop on people, so it should be close to other, similar effects.

Ghotistyx.6942:

I much prefer having low base and increasing the scaling. When I made my own mock up for changing the staff, I used VoR as my base for hps. Without investment, VoR heals for a literal 88hps so I felt staff should be close. With high investment, you can get into the 300s, and that seems pretty decent when combined with all the other sources of healing you can put with it. Staff 1 doesn’t take a lot of effort to drop on people, so it should be close to other, similar effects.

I originally used WoP as my point of reference(kinda evolved since then), hence the mediocre base and low scaling, but now that I think about it, VoR would suit the purpose a bit better.

However I’m left wondering if that’s enough to make a guardian healer viable in just dungeons and fractals, let alone raids. If you can find it, would you link me your thread? I’d like to compare notes.

I just looked through my post history from the past 7 months and didn’t find it, so I can only imagine the thread was deleted.

The gist was:
Staff auto grants 88-100 hps (so not necessarily 88hp per attack obv) and scales like Absolute Resolution (0.075 coefficient per second). The premise is that while Druid does their healing in a burst and Ventari + Ele have smaller, more consistent bursty heals (chunks of a 2-3k) with a smidgen of hot (passive tablet and water), Guardians could focus on the hot heals with bursty supplements. Mace heals on aa, VoR (+AR+BP) is literal heal over time, symbols are hots, Sanctuary is a hot, etc. Even Receive the Light is a bursty heal with a hot component. So with that idea in mind, Guardian healing should fill the niche of the hot healer. The reason Staff 1 works so well is because its and easily spammable, wide aoe; just like Battle Presence. Staff already has heals possible on its 2-4, and they fit the bill. Whether or not you heal 1k per second, or 10k every 10 seconds, you have the same output.

Now, I wouldn’t be surprised if all of the above was unnecessary, but I do like to explain my reasonings. Why you do something is no less important than what you do. Also, the reason I like low base/high scaling, in addition to the above, is to reward investment. Some things need a high base. Healing skills most notably because classes are supposed to be self sufficient. Outside of those things, I prefer to reward investment because of the required opportunity cost. So some skills can get a large benefit from high investment, but investment might also be from stacking multiple effects. That’s where the other paragraph comes in. Even with high investment, a proposed Staff 1 heal can’t heal for too much because you can stack it with many other small sources to get that end result. That’s where my philosophy comes into play with both Guardian as a healer (its heal potential), and the skill itself.

I’ll give it a shot.

1. Wave of Light/Beam of Light
   First is default AA that we have now. Maybe add healing to it as someone already suggested.
   The second is more powerful version that scales better with power. Mesmer GS animation.
2. New skill: Prism
   No cooldown. Swaps between 2 autoattacks.
3. Just give it a flat swiftness boon. Pulsing is really dumb mechanic and interrupts the flow of combat
4. Make it mobile. I can stand still just fine when I’m afk.
5. I guess it’s fine. Reflect would be nice too.

Zergs.9715:

1. I guess it’s fine. Reflect would be nice too.

I considered this but it didn’t make the cut. Would kinda make Wall of Reflection obsolete.

I don’t think we will see the removal of the self root on empower and therefore attaching swiftness to it would be a nerf.

As for the auto attack healing,
With 700 healing power and +30% heal allies it will heal for ~350,
With 2000 healing power and +65% heal allies it will heal for ~750.

Staff AA is already lolworthy mindless to spam, no need to buff it more.

Zergs.9715:

1. Just give it a flat swiftness boon. Pulsing is really dumb mechanic and interrupts the flow of combat

It originally did for the first pulse only. I prefer it now, mainly for use in wvw zergs as its a nice way to grant the entire zerg swiftness without anyone having to equip specific skills to gain it (if you’re not running staff in a zerg, you are doing it wrong).

I like the idea of moving swiftness to staff 5, however it doesn’t leave many options for the symbol. Perhaps pulsing Aegis? The amount of pulses can be adjusted.
I think empower is fine as it is. You can’t move while channeling, but the radius is pretty big for an aoe heal.
Orb of Light needs a rework, projectile detonation is an awful mechanic. If it was made ground targeted, the detonation part can stay though (the orb can stay at the targeted location for 1 sec, giving you time to detonate it).

Ozzrel.9825:

I like the idea of moving swiftness to staff 5, however it doesn’t leave many options for the symbol. Perhaps pulsing Aegis? The amount of pulses can be adjusted.
I think empower is fine as it is. You can’t move while channeling, but the radius is pretty big for an aoe heal.
Orb of Light needs a rework, projectile detonation is an awful mechanic. If it was made ground targeted, the detonation part can stay though (the orb can stay at the targeted location for 1 sec, giving you time to detonate it).

I like that but just makes me think too much of mesmers focus #4. Why I opted to throw it into Empower rather than Line of Warding.
I think 1 of the better ideas would be have Orb of Light detonate on its own rather than the player detonating it. Like Ancestral Grace, just the player doesn’t move.