Guild Wars 2

(Please note, I wanted to make this comparison thread sooner, but I was afraid of getting either Guardians, Mesmers, or any other class nerfed. Its a kitten shame that people are scared to make informative threads for fear of nerfing, Anet.)

Hey guys,

Guardians and Elementalists have been lauded as the best support classes in the game, and I was curious as to what makes them so special? This isn’t really a challenge as much as a comparison of what support Guardians bring to a group and what makes them so valuable compared to other classes’ supportive abilities.

In case you don’t know, support Mesmers can bring:

- Up to 25x Might / Fury (AltruismRunes, Signet) / Perma Swiftness / Perma Regen / Perma Vigor / Aegis / Protection (a bit unreliably) / Perma Retaliation / 2.9k AoE burst heals every 3 seconds.

In addition to the usual Portals, Reflects, Rezz, blah blah…

Would anyone knowledgeable on support Guardians be able to enlighten me a bit? I’d like to work on making a comparison of all the different classes’ support abilities.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

(Please note, I wanted to make this comparison thread sooner, but I was afraid of getting either Guardians, Mesmers, or any other class nerfed. Its a kitten shame that people are scared to make informative threads for fear of nerfing, Anet.)

Hey guys,

Guardians and Elementalists have been lauded as the best support classes in the game, and I was curious as to what makes them so special? This isn’t really a challenge as much as a comparison of what support Guardians bring to a group and what makes them so valuable compared to other classes’ supportive abilities.

In case you don’t know, support Mesmers can bring:

- Up to 25x Might / Fury (AltruismRunes, Signet) / Perma Swiftness / Perma Regen / Perma Vigor / Aegis / Protection (a bit unreliably) / Perma Retaliation / 2.9k AoE burst heals every 3 seconds.

In addition to the usual Portals, Reflects, Rezz, blah blah…

Would anyone knowledgeable on support Guardians be able to enlighten me a bit? I’d like to work on making a comparison of all the different classes’ support abilities.

boon spam, heals and ress.

On demand Protection. (Perma via Hammer).

Decent uptime on Regen (perma w/ Mace).

Stability

Light Field

Damage Negation (bubbles/walls/etc)

Awesome Area Denial & Control (lines/rings/bubble/chains)

Sustained Condition Removal or Area Virtue of Resolve ticks.

Great Meat Shield

Bout sums it up.

For WvW all that need be said is consecrations. Hallowed Ground and Wall of Reflection are incredible tools. The rest is more complicated, but the short version is that a Guardian is much easier to play as support than Mesmer. It doesn’t require any elaborate skill combos. It’s all one shot AoE kind of stuff, or built into your weapons. Shouts are a good example of this.

and Aegis :P
I’m surprised nobody mentioned it yet

15 might to the group with one skill.

The stability is understated I think. We have two (three if traited) skills that give group stability. I think this is something other professions cannot easily replicate.

Guardians have better boon support, Mesmers have better utility support. It’s as simple as that.

Amins.3710:

On demand Protection. (Perma via Hammer).

Decent uptime on Regen (perma w/ Mace).

Stability

Light Field

Damage Negation (bubbles/walls/etc)

Awesome Area Denial & Control (lines/rings/bubble/chains)

Sustained Condition Removal or Area Virtue of Resolve ticks.

Great Meat Shield

Bout sums it up.

- How do Guardians survive so long with such low base HP?
- Do Guardians gain condition removal from traits or skills?
- Exactly what boons can guardians provide? I see Regen, Stability, Protection, Might, and Aegis. How much has to be sacrificed to get them?

Those Consecrations are pretty awesome, but some of those cooldowns are nuts.

The thing about Mesmer support is that a support build is very distinct from a damage build. There is a middle ground, of course, but a Mesmer wanting to spec for support will look very different from a Mesmer speccing into damage. Is it the same for guardians?
Damage Mesmer doesn’t really do much boon support, they’re more utility-based such as Feedback (Reflects), Null Field (AoE pulsing condition removal), Illusion of Life (Rezz) or Ethereal combo fields.

@ Kasama: Could you elaborate more? What does Mesmer have that Guardian doesn’t and vice versa?

ok let me explain it for you we survive becouse we have a lots of boons and we are heavys we are conditions denial and we have a lot of stun breakers my guardian have 23k life so we dont have a little hp., we can remove conditions from shouts, skills and some runes or traits we can be total conditions denial, we provide all kind of boons the complete gallery of boons we dont have to sacrifice almost nothing to be support we gain the boons too so we are very difficults to kill as a support on team the only thing we sacrifice a little its damage but hello you are support not a dps

Chaos Archangel.5071:

@ Kasama: Could you elaborate more? What does Mesmer have that Guardian doesn’t and vice versa?

The following is only considering the abilities of each profession, without anything that they can share, like runes or sigils. Also, not counting underwater weapons, healing abilities, or stuns (except pull, as it can be used for multiple purposes).

Boon Support:
Mesmer – Mirror Blade, Winds of Chaos, Chaos Storm, Temporal Curtain, Phantasmal Mage, Signet of Inspiration / Phantasmal Healing, Vigorous Revelation

Guardian – Virtue of Courage, Symbol of Wrath, Symbol of Protection, Symbol of Swiftness, Empower, Symbol of Faith, Ray of Judgement, Shield of Judgment, “Hold The Line!”, Hallowed Ground, Signet of Judgment, “Retreat!”, “Stand Your Ground!”, Smiter’s Boon, Zealot’s Fervor, Protective Spirit / Protective Reviver, Empowering Might, Pure of Voice

Utility Support:
Mesmer – Clones (can give the impression that there are more player present), Temporal Curtain (pull), Phantasmal Warden, Feedback, Null Field, Portal, Veil, Illusion of Life, Phantasmal Disenchanter, Mass Invisibility, Polymorph Moa, Time Warp / Medic’s Feedback, Shattered Conditions

Guardian – Binding Blade (pull), Ring of Warding, Line of Warding, Shield of Absorption, Cleansing Flame, Purging Flames, Sanctuary, Wall of Reflection, “Save Yourselves!”, Signet of Mercy, Bow of Truth, Shield of the Avenger / Strength In Numbers, Resolute Healer

The thing to notice with utility support, is that the Mesmer has a much wider variation of abilities, where as the Guardian mostly supports using wards. Boon support is simply; the more the better.

Better weapon damage.

Much appreciated guys. Have any sample builds I could look at that demonstrates a support guardian? I wanna see how many of these abilities can be taken at once. (In original post, a single Mesmer can do all of the above if he/she gimps his/her damage)

When I run full support in WWW:

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.0|6.1k.h1j|9.1k.h1j.e.1k.h2|1k.7x.1c.7x.1k.7x.1c.7x.1k.7x.1c.7x|21l.0.21l.0.31l.0.21l.0.31l.0.2u.0|0.0.k54.u000.k69|1k.1|w.11.16.19.1j|e

The website is out of date so add 80 more toughness to Strength in Number trait under valor.

Also use stackers so I have an additional 250 healing power.

There are different variations out there. Boon duration runes instead of soldier’s. All cleric’s armor instead of using some soldier’s pieces like I did. Also, it is popular to go 0/0/10/30/30 and take Indomitable Courage. Writ of Exaltation in the Honor tree is interchangeable with Writ of Persistence.

You can use hammer instead of mace/shield and take Two-handed weapon mastery in the honor tree (I do this also).

The skill bar is interchangeable depending on situation, except Stand Your Ground stays.

I hope I covered most of it, but I’m sure there are things I’m missing.

Actually for Guardians there is possibility of rather viable damage-support hybrid

Guardian is simply better than Mesmer in a support role, and it’s not even close. Having played a Mesmer for the first 8 months of the game, I feel very confident in saying this. In fact, I’d rather have an Ele or an Engi in a support role than I would a Mesmer.

Like was said before, a Mesmer is better suited to bring different utility options to a group rather than filling the slot of a pure support role. Part of the problem the Mesmer has is that in order to pick up more support focused traits and utilities, they have to sacrifice a significant amount of damage, and often times survivability. Not only that, but you also start losing some of the more prominent, and overall more useful, utilities that a Mesmer has available to him/her in order to go this route. Also, part of your plan revolves around making use of leap/blast finishers which can be tricky to pull off, especially when you consider the average skill level of people playing. Personally, I think the best role a Mesmer has in a group/utility role is a high damage shatter build. The AoE debuff/damage, coupled with staff and mass invisibility brings a lot to a group.

So, I play a full support build Guardian in a dedicated 5-man roaming/havoc group in the guild [PAXA] on the HoD server. I run with staff/hammer and go heavy into the Honor and Virtues lines.

So combat is essentially broken down to constant/sustained damage, burst/spike damage, conditions (which will cover debuffs, DoT’s, and movement impairing effects), team buffs, and utility options. As a support role, the main thing you should focus on is being able to deal with as many of these roles as possible so that no matter the situation, you’re going to be able to contribute in a fight. As a Guardian, you literally have an answer for all of these, and in some areas you’re flat out dominant compared to other classes.

As far as damage mitigation goes, the Guardian is really strong in this role. Selfless Daring from the Honor line gives you an AoE heal on dodge. Coupled with Sigil of Energy and Vigorous Precision, you’re likely going to be dodge rolling quite a bit in a fight. It’s a strong defensive trait for yourself, that also allows you to keep constant heals on your team. It helps deal with much of the constant/sustained damage, so that the burst/spike damage is likely to be less of a threat for you. You also have multiple ways of gaining heals/regen through Hold the Line!, Virtue of Resolve, Inspired Virtue through the Virtues line, the Staff, and Tome of Courage, which is just a ridiculously good elite that many more Guardians should be using. Aside from a few ways, most of the healing from a Guardian is instant and AoE, and all can be done without sacrificing your own heal, or survivability.

Condition removal is where a Guardian really shines. Superior Aria coupled with Pure of Voice is just a nasty combo when dealing with conditions. Shouts are some of the strongest, if not the strongest, utilities that a Guardian can choose from. Even without Superior Aria and Pure of Voice, I would likely still be using shouts. Now I don’t run them, but Soldier runes allows you to remove 2 conditions per shout instead of 1. I would run those runes in a heavy damage/support build, but not for a pure support build. Simply put, having multiple ways of AoE stripping conditions and turning them into boons is a surefire way of turning the fight in your favor. Not only that, but these same shouts are also giving your team valuable boons as well, likely at a high boon duration. Oh, and Save Yourselves! is easily one of the most game changing utilities in the game. AoE group purge, that gives you a long list of boons?! If that utility gave no boons, I would still run it without hesitation. Not only these shouts, you’ll also be removing 3 AoE conditions with Virtue of Resolve thanks to Absolute Resolution from the Virtues line. When it comes to condition removal, the Guardian is unmatched.

Again, another area in which the Guardian reigns supreme is the ability to throw out so many team buffs. If you’re going support, you’re likely running a shout build which means you’re dishing out boons left and right to your team. With Stand Your Ground!, and Indomitable Courage if you go that far in the Virtues line, you have ways of giving your team stability, which is easily the best boon in the game. Having multiple ways of giving your team AoE stability is enough of a reason in itself to take a Guardian over a Mesmer in a support role. Having your team be immune to control effects is often the difference between winning and losing a fight. That boon is just stupid good, and you have multiple ways of giving it out, all instant cast. I won’t get into all the boons you can dish out, but needless to say, your group is going to have more buffs than the other team will have. Oh, and let’s not forget about the Empower ability on the staff. The ability to give that many stacks of might plus a big AoE heal is just too good to pass up. It’s both an offensive and defensive ability that significantly changes the offensive output of your team, plus provides a big heal.

Now the one area in which the Guardian struggle,s compared to some of the other support roles, is with its utility options. If you’ve gone the route I’ve suggested, you’re only other source of group utility is coming from your weapons. Don’t get me wrong, Line of Warding and Ring of Warding are dominant forms of CC, but stability on the other team completely negates them. Now, coupled with all the support you bring to the team, it’s not a big deal, but you certainly have less nifty utility options than say a Mesmer or an Engi might bring.

I’m not saying you can’t/shouldn’t go support on your Mesmer, but the class is simply better suited for damage, and the Guardian does what you’re trying to do, only a lot better.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

- How do Guardians survive so long with such low base HP?
- Do Guardians gain condition removal from traits or skills?
- Exactly what boons can guardians provide? I see Regen, Stability, Protection, Might, and Aegis. How much has to be sacrificed to get them?

Those Consecrations are pretty awesome, but some of those cooldowns are nuts.

The thing about Mesmer support is that a support build is very distinct from a damage build. There is a middle ground, of course, but a Mesmer wanting to spec for support will look very different from a Mesmer speccing into damage. Is it the same for guardians?
Damage Mesmer doesn’t really do much boon support, they’re more utility-based such as Feedback (Reflects), Null Field (AoE pulsing condition removal), Illusion of Life (Rezz) or Ethereal combo fields.

@ Kasama: Could you elaborate more? What does Mesmer have that Guardian doesn’t and vice versa?

hello, why are you opening the same thread in every class section?
Any class is capable to give support to the team and any class can do a particular thing; guardian is the support class for excellence so there is no way to compare it with mesmers… or rangers… or warriors

now, ill answer to your questions:
1- base hp is low but we get toon of protection (-33% damage), regeneration, aegis and way to heal
2- guardian is the excellence in condition remove since you get “pure of voice” trait which allow you to remove 1 aoe condition per shout used + meditation for direct and personal remove + rune of soldier + save yourselves for the best aoe condition remove.
3- guardian can give: might, protection, regeneration, aegis, swiftness, retailation without to sacrifice anything

consecrations need to be traited to get a real benefit from them but then your 3 consecration can change a critical situation…

while mesmers and other classes have to spec for support guardian, instead, is a support class without to specc it for…
I use guardian for almost everything and with tha same mid/offensive build i give toon of support to my team:
1- toons of might stacks (1 might per crit + 3might per VoJ, aoe)
2- regeneration stack
3- protection
4- retailation
5- aoe heals
6- aegis (2x for critic situations)
7- burning (via VoJ)
8- 1x combo field light (GS 4#)
9- 1x combo finisher leap (GS 3#)
10- 2x combo finisher projectile (GS 5# and Focus 4#)
11- 1x combo finisher blast (Focus 5#)
12- 1x ranged attacks block (sword 3# + utility if equipped

and that’s while maintaining a great damage (only a bit under a full zerker build)

This has all been a very interesting read, and I really appreciate all the constructive feedback.

@Kjeldoran: I posted this question in every thread because it would simply take too long for me to gather all of the data for myself. When it comes to support roles in this game, a lot of the information usually comes from “He said / she said” rather than actual comparative facts. Most people who say “Guardians have the best support” or “Eles have the best support” are saying that because its what they’ve heard from someone else or have not actually explored the supportive nature of other classes.

These threads were meant to separate fact from rumor, and I’ve been able to gather so much information from them that both helps me get a wider view on what people are looking for in a support build, and allows me a true comparison of Mesmer support compared to other classes. (As well as how other people view Mesmer in a support role). I know it seems really obnoxious to post in every thread, and that was part of the reason I was nervous about doing it, but the results have been more than worth it. Hell, I really never knew Engineers brought so much support to the table until I asked.

@Skarloc: I really appreciate the detailed response.. The problem is, Mesmer’s supportive abilities have been greatly improved in these last few months but many people still hold on to older ways of thinking. The thing about Mesmer support is that there’s a large misconception that you have to sacrifice damage in order to achieve a strong support role (I admit, I think I helped perpetuate that), but that’s not exactly true. You’re right that Mesmer definitely has to sacrifice to acquire the healing Guardians can put out, but for everything else, boons and all, it doesn’t take much change. (Staff, 40% boon duration, Altruism runes and you can apply all boons).

I partly disagree with you on Stability. Stability is a great buff but it doesn’t outshine the others as profoundly as you say. There are many situations where Protection (Another boon guardians have over Mesmer) is more valuable.

As for the healing, how much can a guardian heal in 10 seconds? Burst heals have been difficult for me to calculate, because Elementalists (water attunement), Mesmer (mantra heals), Guardian, and Engineer (Water field + blast finishers) can AoE heal effectively in different ways. But while I honestly don’t think the heal numbers are that far ahead of eachother, the application makes a huge difference. Mesmer have to stop attacking in order to cast heals, which could be a problem if you aren’t running a Phantasm build.

Condition Removal isn’t even a comparison, I think Guardians and Necros are the best at that.

Guardians seem to have an abundance of the defensive boons, and lack on the offensive ones (Empower notwithstanding), Mesmer can use weapon skills to acquire what we want.

The thing is, though… A normal Mesmer running staff & SoI are strengthened considerably by their group. If a Guardian (non support) Engineer, Warrior, ect, are on a team, and they’re buffing everyone with boons like Stability/Fury/Might/Protection/ ect. The Mesmer, in addition to his own boons, timewarps, portals, and Ethereal combo fields is multiplying any existing boons on the party.

A support Mes expands on this concept considerably. Sacrificing damage for burst heals, & long duration boons (and the boons that don’t last as long [Less than 6 secs] would be supplied by other classes) in addition to rezzing, reflects, Portals, Timewarp.

I’m not trying to say that Mesmer, Guardians, or any other class should be the go-to support class. I’m trying to see what classes can play a viable support role. So far Guardian, Engineer, Mesmer, and Elementalist bring a considerable amount of support compared to the other four. It seems while Guardians and Elementalists can support pretty well in their natural rotatons, Engineer and Mesmer have to be a bit more specialized but can achieve more versatile support.

This has been a great learning experience, thanks all.

Short version of healing in ten seconds:

With 1k healing power, you can…

• Regenerate for 2550 total
• Dodge twice for 2258 total
• Virtue of Resolve for 2375 (Twice in a row with Renewed Focus)
• Empower for 2500
• Two Mighty Blow blast finishes for 3040 total
• Merciful Intervention for 2560

Naturally, circumstance and your build determine how many of these you can actually pull off in sequence. But that’s just off the top of my head. Everything listed is AOE.

foofad.5162:

Short version of healing in ten seconds:

With 1k healing power, you can…

• Regenerate for 2550 total
• Dodge twice for 2258 total
• Virtue of Resolve for 2375 (Twice in a row with Renewed Focus)
• Empower for 2500
• Two Mighty Blow blast finishes for 3040 total
• Merciful Intervention for 2560

Naturally, circumstance and your build determine how many of these you can actually pull off in sequence. But that’s just off the top of my head. Everything listed is AOE.

That’s pretty frickin’ glorious! Guardians most probably have it on the healing, which is as it should be.

I feel like this thread should get posted to the top, it is extremely informative and helpful. I even learned some things I did not previously know.

foofad.5162:

Short version of healing in ten seconds:

With 1k healing power, you can…

• Regenerate for 2550 total
• Dodge twice for 2258 total
• Virtue of Resolve for 2375 (Twice in a row with Renewed Focus)
• Empower for 2500
• Two Mighty Blow blast finishes for 3040 total
• Merciful Intervention for 2560

Naturally, circumstance and your build determine how many of these you can actually pull off in sequence. But that’s just off the top of my head. Everything listed is AOE.

with vigor You can even make more dodge rolls
and with good boon duration and well crit chance You actually have perma-vigor

Yeah, and with Energy sigils that’s another free dodge every ten seconds.

foofad.5162:

Short version of healing in ten seconds:

With 1k healing power, you can…

• Regenerate for 2550 total
• Dodge twice for 2258 total
• Virtue of Resolve for 2375 (Twice in a row with Renewed Focus)
• Empower for 2500
• Two Mighty Blow blast finishes for 3040 total
• Merciful Intervention for 2560

Naturally, circumstance and your build determine how many of these you can actually pull off in sequence. But that’s just off the top of my head. Everything listed is AOE.

Also Staff #2 for 1388 ( + 471 for every ally the orb touches before detonation ), although you might have trouble squeezing it into a 10 second rotation with all of the above

Knew I was forgetting something. You can detonate even while you’re channeling Empower.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

(Please note, I wanted to make this comparison thread sooner, but I was afraid of getting either Guardians, Mesmers, or any other class nerfed. Its a kitten shame that people are scared to make informative threads for fear of nerfing, Anet.)

Hey guys,

Guardians and Elementalists have been lauded as the best support classes in the game, and I was curious as to what makes them so special? This isn’t really a challenge as much as a comparison of what support Guardians bring to a group and what makes them so valuable compared to other classes’ supportive abilities.

In case you don’t know, support Mesmers can bring:

- Up to 25x Might / Fury (AltruismRunes, Signet) / Perma Swiftness / Perma Regen / Perma Vigor / Aegis / Protection (a bit unreliably) / Perma Retaliation / 2.9k AoE burst heals every 3 seconds.

In addition to the usual Portals, Reflects, Rezz, blah blah…

Would anyone knowledgeable on support Guardians be able to enlighten me a bit? I’d like to work on making a comparison of all the different classes’ support abilities.

Since i’m learning to master the mesmer and want to know everything about it,
can somebody please explain me how to do the supports he said, the perma swift, and 2.9k AoE burst heal every 3 seconds, etc..
greetings

Well for starters, you could try posting in the Mesmer forums.

Guardian can do more healing with Tome Of Courage then any other support class can do with a full rotation, so i don’t think anybody can argue that they are not the top when it comes to healing.

However WvW is not played in a vacuum where only the numbers matter, so we can’t just look at that and call it a day. You’ve heard the arguments for the guardian, so I’ll give you some comparisons where i think the Mesmer comes out on top.

Disclaimer* (I am new to the Mesmer, but i have been playing a support Guardian for nearly a year.)

Where the Mesmer lacks in burst healing it makes up for in constant tics for 2.6k base, and can keep this up throughout the fight. Also the Mesmer is much harder to train and bring down due to having more access to self invuls, and being altogether more slippery. The Guardian also has terrible group mobility support, and i think we all know that the Mesmer holds the highest honors in that category.

I feel like the healing would be comparable between the two in a prolonged fight, if measured correctly. It all depends on what you need from your support. I would say both can fill the role very well, but the play style of the group/zerg would be very different depending on which one was more prevalent.

Preacher

This needs to be moved to the Necro forums now.

ololol 2funny4u.

carlos.2861:

ok let me explain it for you we survive becouse we have a lots of boons and we are heavys we are conditions denial and we have a lot of stun breakers my guardian have 23k life so we dont have a little hp.

Guardian has tied lowest health with elementalist and thief @ 10.8K HP, if you dont call that low, then i am not sure what low is for you. The rest you wrote is fine except the part about runes, since every one can use most runes(some are however tied to specific types), but i would rarely call runes a Guardian specific skills.

Guardians IMO are in a bad place in PvE. They basically have everything that mesmers have, support-wise, but weaker. Their primary sell ATM is being able to stack perma-protection in a fairly wide area while still having okay defensive support across the board; they have healing, condition removal, reflects, and stability, but they aren’t the best at anything.

The biggest problem really is that Anet thought it would be funny to buff Mantra of Resolve and Mantra of Recovery to do the exact same thing that Stand Your Ground and Purging Flames do, except on shorter cooldowns and with more uses, then didn’t bother to really buff anything about guardians to compensate.

Strength in Numbers is a nice pug-carry buff to have though.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Guardians IMO are in a bad place in PvE. They basically have everything that mesmers have, support-wise, but weaker. Their primary sell ATM is being able to stack perma-protection in a fairly wide area while still having okay defensive support across the board; they have healing, condition removal, reflects, and stability, but they aren’t the best at anything.

The biggest problem really is that Anet thought it would be funny to buff Mantra of Resolve and Mantra of Recovery to do the exact same thing that Stand Your Ground and Purging Flames do, except on shorter cooldowns and with more uses, then didn’t bother to really buff anything about guardians to compensate.

Strength in Numbers is a nice pug-carry buff to have though.

support is moot in pve, reflect or go home.

GW2 at it’s finest. Guardian < All other classes in most aspect, nothing Guard can do bether currently than any other class can not. Well besides perma protect assuming you fight a mob that stand still, and you use the most boring weapon set in the game.

Still don’t understand why Banish don’t deal damage, is it cause the short cooldown? 25 sec, 1 sec wind up. Singel target, 1.0 scaling.

Or why Zealot’s Embrace only send out a slow chain that affect up to five targets and immobilize them for 2 seconds every 15 second. Seriously, 0.8 scaling on that aswell really really silly considering the cooldown and effect.

And i guess the Ring of warding would be fine, if it would not be for the random people jumping, dodging out of it whitout stability, a really powerfull tool besides previous mentioned downside.

Wish they would rework alot of hammer skills, GS and Shield skills. And for the love of baby raptor Charr jesus, rework Glacial heart.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUMQNApeSlcgqCnFyMEf4ESmCRCBxegRf0GdpIheIA-jkyAotAi3gIGBiaAmFjYacIrVXN2yrQkamIqWZjJEAytA-w

922 perma aoe hps, perma prot/regen (vigor on self), 2.2k dodge heals (spammable in wvw), lots of stability, decent condi cleanse, ~30% reflect uptime + shield of the avenger, good blast finisher, some hard cc.
I would like to see where you get some of your boons and numbers from, and whether or not those boons are on yourself or on allies as well.
All bark and no bite imo.

Wow, I really hadn’t expect this thread to be revived.

@ Stand The Wall: Well, that’s rude. =P Before I respond, I’d like to quickly link something I wrote earlier in the thread just so we’re on the same page.

I happily admit that Guardians have what’s most likely the best defensive support in the game. Ya’ll outshine us as far a healing, protection, and stability are concerned and our supportive abilities.

But I’ve been playing support Mesmer for over a year now, I guarantee that everything I stated is team-oriented and the build where this is all explained can be found right here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-The-Chaos-Maestro-Support-Builds/first

In that link is a video to what’s called the “Boon Storm” which is a technique Mesmer that take Signet of Inspiration use to share as many as 8 of the 9 boons in the game.

As far as boon variety goes, Mesmers offer a larger abundance, however fury is passed with Runes of Altruism and then multiplied with the signet. Reflection we definitely have in abundance, Illusion of Life (our rezz) is rather popular in higher level PvP, and Portal.. yeah.

But I specifically didn’t come here to gloat or claim Mesmer were a “better class” than Guardian in any form. I wanted to compare the data for each classes supportive abilities (I made this thread in every class) to separate fact from fiction. I learned a lot from this little project too, especially in regards to Engineers.

Even though the post was necro’d I still thought I would share. Cool story.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

But I specifically didn’t come here to gloat or claim Mesmer were a “better class” than Guardian in any form. I wanted to compare the data for each classes supportive abilities (I made this thread in every class) to separate fact from fiction. I learned a lot from this little project too, especially in regards to Engineers.

So when/where are you going to post the results of your project so we all can benefit from your time invested? Or are you just going to horde all this knowledge to yourself? (don’t do that; your head will get fat)

Stand The Wall.6987:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUMQNApeSlcgqCnFyMEf4ESmCRCBxegRf0GdpIheIA-jkyAotAi3gIGBiaAmFjYacIrVXN2yrQkamIqWZjJEAytA-w

922 perma aoe hps, perma prot/regen (vigor on self), 2.2k dodge heals (spammable in wvw), lots of stability, decent condi cleanse, ~30% reflect uptime + shield of the avenger, good blast finisher, some hard cc.
I would like to see where you get some of your boons and numbers from, and whether or not those boons are on yourself or on allies as well.
All bark and no bite imo.

I can not see the 922 perma HP/S, nor the perma protection / perma regeneration. Nor can i see with the build you linked a spammable dodge roll for 2.2k (1938 or 1033.5 in SPvP) are the acctualy healing number on your dodge with current healing power. And all this assuming the +250 Healing from mace trait, so lower when hammer is equiped.

The only stability is SYG for 7½ sec each 24 sec that would mean a 31.25% uptime, assuming you trigger it every 24 sec even if you are not stunned.

The condi cleansing is Nearby Allies 3 each 28 sec 240 radius, and 3 condition every 50 sec assuming you sacrifice the group (84 + (1809 × 0.06)) * 1.25, HPS or one could use the 90 sec renewed focus to recharge it instantly.

And with the current build i can see neither any Reflect skills nor Shield of the avenger, but i assume you mean absorbation.

Now alot of the buffs are there, the problem i can see is that you assume you fight foes that stand inside or stand still inside you’r 180 radius symbols.

So you got the condition cleansing, but with the current build you linked, i can not see the other effects you state we have, atleast not in a valid scenarion where people acctualy performe bether than AI mobs.