Guild Wars 2

Most guardians agree on the fact that sword/focus is the best DPS weapon set because sword AA deals more sustained DPS than any other weapon, granted.
Now, even if it’s the best DPS weapon, after many tries made in different contexts, I find it very situational and no way the best choice in general for PvE, let’s see why:
In normal PvE (I mean open world, trash mobs in dungeons, big groups of enemies) the GS really shines with its larger AoE, better burst and AoE pulls. I know that GS auto attack is one of the weakest we have, but 90% of the times, a single burst is enough to get down any mob group amd the AoE pull allows the team to concentrate all the damage in a single spot killing everything faster.
The sword could be much more effective against single target fights, aka boss fight, but, once again, I prefer other weapons in most cases.
Beside those bosses which have to be killed with ranged weapons, I tried the sword for a dozen times in both fractals and dungeons and I still find the hammer more usefull in most situations, especially against very mobile bosses such as The Mossman or Archdiviner, as I can snare the boss on the AoE to maximize the damage letting my team mates refill their endurance, but also for its decent support with protection and blast finishers, always appreciated in your party.
So, where the sword outclass the other weapons? Against all static bosses like CoF P1, Thaumanova Anomaly or swamp tree I find the sword to be the best choice beacuse you can maximize the profit of your high sustained DPS as you don’t need the hammer extra support and the melee fight is very possibile with low risk.

Everything is purely IMHO and would much appreciate to have a nice and civil discussion with PvE expert guardians, thank you.
Also, sorry for bad english.

stemare.2578:

…and I still find the hammer more usefull in most situations, especially against very mobile bosses such as The Mossman or Archdiviner, as I can snare the boss on the AoE to maximize the damage letting my team mates refill their endurance, but …

What snare are you talking about? Also, I don’t use hammer for dps, it is more a utility choice if I’m using it.

Zerole.7306:

stemare.2578:

…and I still find the hammer more usefull in most situations, especially against very mobile bosses such as The Mossman or Archdiviner, as I can snare the boss on the AoE to maximize the damage letting my team mates refill their endurance, but …

What snare are you talking about? Also, I don’t use hammer for dps, it is more a utility choice if I’m using it.

For snare I mean immobilize.
The hammer has a good amount of sustained DPS with AA + SoP and MB.

stemare.2578:

Most guardians agree on the fact that sword/focus is the best DPS weapon set because sword AA deals more sustained DPS than any other weapon, granted.
Now, even if it’s the best DPS weapon, after many tries made in different contexts, I find it very situational and no way the best choice in general for PvE, let’s see why:
In normal PvE (I mean open world, trash mobs in dungeons, big groups of enemies) the GS really shines with its larger AoE, better burst and AoE pulls. I know that GS auto attack is one of the weakest we have, but 90% of the times, a single burst is enough to get down any mob group amd the AoE pull allows the team to concentrate all the damage in a single spot killing everything faster.
The sword could be much more effective against single target fights, aka boss fight, but, once again, I prefer other weapons in most cases.
Beside those bosses which have to be killed with ranged weapons, I tried the sword for a dozen times in both fractals and dungeons and I still find the hammer more usefull in most situations, especially against very mobile bosses such as The Mossman or Archdiviner, as I can snare the boss on the AoE to maximize the damage letting my team mates refill their endurance, but also for its decent support with protection and blast finishers, always appreciated in your party.
So, where the sword outclass the other weapons? Against all static bosses like CoF P1, Thaumanova Anomaly or swamp tree I find the sword to be the best choice beacuse you can maximize the profit of your high sustained DPS as you don’t need the hammer extra support and the melee fight is very possibile with low risk.

Everything is purely IMHO and would much appreciate to have a nice and civil discussion with PvE expert guardians, thank you.
Also, sorry for bad english.

Hammer is awesome. If you prefer it to Sword, there’s no shame in using it.

Sword/focus does high sustained damage and is very reliable with hits, it has condition removal, 2 blinds (3 with VoJ), regen, blast finisher/3blocks/burst dps not to mention a mini blink (blinding blade). Basically the sword is awesome, but there is no shame is using the hammer as the guy above me stated, it is a great weapon, has good dps and good support with drawbacks being slow (sometimes hard to land all your chain e.g subject alpha) and having lower mobility that other weapons (sword/gs). GS i don’t like but you can use it on rotation with s/f if you want to (light field/unreliable hits/general laziness) is the reason i dont use it on rotation. I’m not sure that in single target scenarios anyway the dps increase is worth rotation, especially after this getting a buff later today.

Painbow.6059:

Sword/focus does high sustained damage and is very reliable with hits, it has condition removal, 2 blinds (3 with VoJ), regen, blast finisher/3blocks/burst dps not to mention a mini blink (blinding blade).

I usually keep focus #5 for blocks, neither for blast finisher nor for burst dps and, due to its high cd, i keep it as a panic button.
RoJ also has a pretty high cd and gives just 3 sec of regen (if bounces hit allies), really not a big deal for me, its blind is good but not spammable.
The most useful things is the blinding blink and the sustained dps of course but again, I can maximize DPS gain just against static bosses where hammer support is not so needed.

the blind is for might stacking with blind exposure since all sword guardian builds should use the trait, focus isn’t amazing or anything but its way better than the shield

I don’t see the use of protection in a large number of bossfights in this game. Hammer is definitely a strong choice in fractals but the lower DPS is not worth permanent protection in normal (e.g. AC-Arah) dungeons. Protection sure as hell isn’t going to save you from a kick or swipe from Lupi.

I will agree that the lack of cleave on sword AA makes it weak at dealing with trash, and that GS burst is normally enough to kill trash, but sadly sword/focus is the only decent weaponset that allows 2 stacking sigils.

Focus offhand is also amazing, the 5 skill has a very wide range of utility (blast finisher/DPS/block) and RoJ is excellent for pulling a pack of mobs and stacking vuln.

I also fail to see how sword is only good against stationary bosses and how the short duration hammer immobilise can make such a huge difference in party DPS. Enemies don’t normally move around very much unless your party members are running around like morons.

Hammer is a very useful weapon and I would definitely recommend it in PUGs, but in optimised parties it’s somewhat overkill defensively in normal dungeons.

guanlongwucaii.3162:

I don’t see the use of protection in a large number of bossfights in this game. Hammer is definitely a strong choice in fractals but the lower DPS is not worth permanent protection in normal (e.g. AC-Arah) dungeons. Protection sure as hell isn’t going to save you from a kick or swipe from Lupi.

against Lupi I see scepter/focus to be much better. Isnt’ it a bit too risky to go melee with sword? Then again, immobilize is also useful to let your party kite boss and refill their endurance.

guanlongwucaii.3162:

Focus offhand is also amazing, the 5 skill has a very wide range of utility (blast finisher/DPS/block) and RoJ is excellent for pulling a pack of mobs and stacking vuln.

I run 20 zeal so I stack vulnerability with symbols. I see your point in aggroing mobs, but often i use staff as second weapon set and it’s an excellent choice to buff team and pull mobs before the fight.

guanlongwucaii.3162:

Enemies don’t normally move around very much unless your party members are running around like morons.

How can you stay in place when Archdriven or Mai Trin are chasing you? I’m not talking about easy boss fights like AC or CoF P1, I’m talking about high end PvE.

stemare.2578:

against Lupi I see scepter/focus to be much better. Isnt’ it a bit too risky to go melee with sword? Then again, immobilize is also useful to let your party kite boss and refill their endurance.

I’m not sure this is worth the lengthy explanation.

lol this took a turn for the worse :/

If you guys do the math, scepter/torch actually has higher dps than any other weapon combo on guard (on par with GS). Focus isn’t a dps weapon, it is a defensive weapon.

Scepter 2 and torch 5 deal a ridiculous amount of damage with low cooldowns. They offer the best dps for a guard. I’ve never understood why people seem to think sword is better dps when the research is out there showing that this isn’t the case….. (Actually it is because a lot of people are comparing auto-attacks, which of course scepter falls into the second to last lowest for guardian on the auto-attack chain, but if you take into account the other skills is quickly rises to seconds best. And best when you add torch offhand.)

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/70080-guardian-effective-dps-tests/

eleshazar.6902:

If you guys do the math, scepter/torch actually has higher dps than any other weapon combo on guard (on par with GS). Focus isn’t a dps weapon, it is a defensive weapon.

Scepter 2 and torch 5 deal a ridiculous amount of damage with low cooldowns. They offer the best dps for a guard. I’ve never understood why people seem to think sword is better dps when the research is out there showing that this isn’t the case….. (Actually it is because a lot of people are comparing auto-attacks, which of course scepter falls into the second to last lowest for guardian on the auto-attack chain, but if you take into account the other skills is quickly rises to seconds best. And best when you add torch offhand.)

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/70080-guardian-effective-dps-tests/

I agree whole-heartedly, just from my own playing I noticed I did far more damage with Greatsword / scepter-torch, plus I have the mobility and distance attack to kite if necessary. Running with full zerker armor and weapons and Runes of the Traveler I do pretty significant damage and still have the mobility to get around even without using Staff SoS….I’m traited 10 25 0 10 25.

1. Scepter is only superior dps if all of Smite hits, which only happens on large model bosses. The autoattack is nothing compared to Sword.

2. Torch 5 is less dps than sword auto attack by a significant amount.

3. Sword dps caught another 5% boost today, now there is nothing remotely close.

4. Your link is to a Guangmath thread.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

1. Scepter is only superior dps if all of Smite hits, which only happens on large model bosses. The autoattack is nothing compared to Sword.

2. Torch 5 is less dps than sword auto attack by a significant amount.

3. Sword dps caught another 5% boost today, now there is nothing remotely close.

4. Your link is to a Guangmath thread.

1) Correct in that this only counts if smite hits with all hits. You are incorrect in saying this only happens on large scale bosses. The number of hits (assuming no blocks) is decided by how many people are standing in the aoe of the attack and remain there through duration. If one person stands there (no matter how small) and does not leave they will take every hit from the attack. This is rather easily accomplished with scepter 3 skill.

2) Incorrect. According to the wiki page on each:
Sword auto attack chain = 269 +269 + 3(504) = 2050
Torch skill 5 = 10(1,000) = 10,000

3) Great for the 5% boost if you trait into it. Still doesn’t match torch 5…. or scepter 2…
Sword auto attack = 0.05(2050) + 2050 = 2152
Torch skill 5 = 10,000
Scepter 2 = 15(1665) = 24975
Also look at the wiki not for Scepter 2: "Relative to the channel and recharge time, this is the most powerful single skill in the game if all hits connect. "

4) I’m not sure I get your point here…..

These threads make me angry.

:)

eleshazar.6902:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

1. Scepter is only superior dps if all of Smite hits, which only happens on large model bosses. The autoattack is nothing compared to Sword.

2. Torch 5 is less dps than sword auto attack by a significant amount.

3. Sword dps caught another 5% boost today, now there is nothing remotely close.

4. Your link is to a Guangmath thread.

1) Correct in that this only counts if smite hits with all hits. You are incorrect in saying this only happens on large scale bosses. The number of hits (assuming no blocks) is decided by how many people are standing in the aoe of the attack and remain there through duration. If one person stands there (no matter how small) and does not leave they will take every hit from the attack. This is rather easily accomplished with scepter 3 skill.

2) Incorrect. According to the wiki page on each:
Sword auto attack chain = 269 +269 + 3(504) = 2050
Torch skill 5 = 10(1,000) = 10,000

3) Great for the 5% boost if you trait into it. Still doesn’t match torch 5…. or scepter 2…
Sword auto attack = 0.05(2050) + 2050 = 2152
Torch skill 5 = 10,000
Scepter 2 = 15(1665) = 24975
Also look at the wiki not for Scepter 2: "Relative to the channel and recharge time, this is the most powerful single skill in the game if all hits connect. "

4) I’m not sure I get your point here…..

Something wrong with those calculations. Try a real world test in the mists on golems, scepter is strong but not that strong. Torch 5 is very slow DPS.

eleshazar.6902:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

1. Scepter is only superior dps if all of Smite hits, which only happens on large model bosses. The autoattack is nothing compared to Sword.

2. Torch 5 is less dps than sword auto attack by a significant amount.

3. Sword dps caught another 5% boost today, now there is nothing remotely close.

4. Your link is to a Guangmath thread.

1) Correct in that this only counts if smite hits with all hits. You are incorrect in saying this only happens on large scale bosses. The number of hits (assuming no blocks) is decided by how many people are standing in the aoe of the attack and remain there through duration. If one person stands there (no matter how small) and does not leave they will take every hit from the attack. This is rather easily accomplished with scepter 3 skill.

2) Incorrect. According to the wiki page on each:
Sword auto attack chain = 269 +269 + 3(504) = 2050
Torch skill 5 = 10(1,000) = 10,000

3) Great for the 5% boost if you trait into it. Still doesn’t match torch 5…. or scepter 2…
Sword auto attack = 0.05(2050) + 2050 = 2152
Torch skill 5 = 10,000
Scepter 2 = 15(1665) = 24975
Also look at the wiki not for Scepter 2: "Relative to the channel and recharge time, this is the most powerful single skill in the game if all hits connect. "

4) I’m not sure I get your point here…..

I had to log in and correct your math, which is incorrect on several accounts, but not entirely your accountability due to tricky tooltips.

1. Each individual hit of smite is a small AoE that drops in an area within the targeted AoE. A single small target will not receive even close to all 16 hits, but it is effective on larger targets. You can try this yourself very easily on small golems in the mists.

2. The math isn’t 10×1000. The tooltips (10x: 1000 [3.3000]) means that it does 1000 total damage over the 10 hits, or 10×100. On top of this, it is over a 4.5 second channel, not counting starting and after-cast delay anmiations. Torch 5 is good for many things, but damage is not one of them, and it pales in comparison to sword autoattack. This is something lamented about for the torch for a good time now.

3. Once again, your math for scepter 2 also made the same fallacy as your math for torch 5. It’s 1665 distributed over 15 hits. Still not bad at all, but not even remotely close to the numbers you posted.

swiftpaw.6397:

These threads make me angry.

Your useless posts in this thread make me angry.
If you are not able to say anything constructive, just ignore the topic and don’t post at all!

i prefer the AoE of symbol weapons in PvE….and then traiting for symbol size/damage/duration.

stemare.2578:

swiftpaw.6397:

These threads make me angry.

Your useless posts in this thread make me angry.
If you are not able to say anything constructive, just ignore the topic and don’t post at all!

No thanks. I’m just joking. I really like the part about scepter on lupi.

When all hits of scepter connect it can be very powerful. If you can guarantee it, I would expect it to do more Dps than sword while providing higher survivability and an easier time keeping up unscathed buff.

Usually the target isn’t big enough for all smite orbs to hit, so sword wins.

Until sword has more than 20 percent more effective power than gs swapping from 1h to gs for ww, symbol, ww rotation will always yield higher Dps than camping 1h. With a 10/30/x build this gets pretty much there, with the gs only being taken for some aoe.

Regarding hammer. I believe gs/1h specs to do roughly 20 percent more Dps and don’t find protection a good enough compensation.

fadeaway.2807:

Until sword has more than 20 percent more effective power than gs

Effective Power is only a valid tool for comparing two builds from the same profession using the same weaponset. Comparing the Effective Power of a sword build to a gs build is meaningless when it comes to determining anything about DPS.

I always use effective power alongside the full damage formula and skill coefficients /dmg to determine Dps.

fadeaway.2807:

I always use effective power alongside the full damage formula and skill coefficients /dmg to determine Dps.

So why did your post make it sound like you didn’t understand the concept at all?

Because I’m tired of offering full explanations and math everywhere I go. Often people don’t care and it ends up as a waste of time, especially when the conclusion basically mirrors Obal’s pve guide anyway.

Always happy to share math and thoughts in private.

Also, many of my posts don’t go into as much detail as I would like because I post from my phone.

eleshazar.6902:

If you guys do the math, scepter/torch actually has higher dps than any other weapon combo on guard (on par with GS). Focus isn’t a dps weapon, it is a defensive weapon.

Scepter 2 and torch 5 deal a ridiculous amount of damage with low cooldowns. They offer the best dps for a guard. I’ve never understood why people seem to think sword is better dps when the research is out there showing that this isn’t the case….. (Actually it is because a lot of people are comparing auto-attacks, which of course scepter falls into the second to last lowest for guardian on the auto-attack chain, but if you take into account the other skills is quickly rises to seconds best. And best when you add torch offhand.)

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/70080-guardian-effective-dps-tests/

Scepter is great but its situational. Projectiles don’t pierce and Smite is stationary, as others have said. 90% of the time I run scepter as a ranged option.

Torch is also situational. If you need burning its a solid choice. T4 is a DPS increase if you crit. T5 is not very good compared to Sword AA, it has a terribly long cast time. I would only use it if I have multiple targets to hit. I cringe when I see guards T5 single targets… If you don’t need Burning, Focus will come out ahead in DPS, 4 is a Blind/Vulnerability if traited and 5 is an instant cast w/blast.

Hammer is, again, situational. With the right build hammer can be competitive DPS with a recent improvement to WoP. If you’re in an organized Fire Field Blasting group it will really mess things up and people will get angry Sword and Scepter are preferred in these situations as they don’t drop fields to cover fire fields. In a pug or non-blasting group Hammer is a solid choice.

Don’t take my word for it though, go to the mists and time some stuff. Comparisons are easily had.

Blood~

fadeaway.2807:

Because I’m tired of offering full explanations and math everywhere I go. Often people don’t care and it ends up as a waste of time, especially when the conclusion basically mirrors Obal’s pve guide anyway.

Always happy to share math and thoughts in private.

Also, many of my posts don’t go into as much detail as I would like because I post from my phone.

I tried to reply to your PM but I do not have the privledge on these forums any more to send PMs.

Thanks for letting me know. I’m on guru as Lilitu if you really want to send it.