Guild Wars 2

i didn’t realize these traits were all at 20% dmg incr

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swift_Termination
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Executioner
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bolt_to_the_Heart
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Close_to_Death

can we trade out this trait for one of these?

amen … while the symbolic avengaer is very positional as the enemy MUST stay in your symbol for the dmg incr to activate, these other traits are active regardless of enemy positioning and actually more useful as they trigger at key moments in fights when enemy is ALREADY being pressured below 50% health.

Why the nerf of symbolic avenger compared to these traits ?

one says it’s because we have traits that give us increase in damage with burning or when we have retaltation .. that’s 7% + 10% respectively on VERY CONDITIONAL situations . so IF i have burning on the enemy and IF i have retaliation at the same time then and only then i have 17% damage increase … well that’s not even 20% compared to the very LOW condition traits the other classes have :/

Guards have damage modifiers but they’re very low/conditional for them to be utilized effectively. Also it’s very very very hard to stack them in a build the synergizes well .. don’t believe me? go try and make a build that’s focused on utilizing as many damage modifiers as possibly and tell me whether you can make a build or not /

Doesn’t Symbolic Avenger boost the damage enemies take for EVERYONE standing in your Symbols?

WindGodGirl.6405:

Doesn’t Symbolic Avenger boost the damage enemies take for EVERYONE standing in your Symbols?

If it was indeed a buff increase to everyone else, I think that would make it ok. But I asked in here : https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Symbolic-Avenger-Intended-Behavior/ .. and by the looks of it, it’s not.

It was strong within meditation builds, symbol(20%)+ji+GS(WW) while under quickness plus fire damage +7%, was a teleport blender, funny how some classes were allowed to have same burst capacity at that time and guard got “balanced”.

Altough was good for mace builds since every one atacks range nowadays, problem ive been noticing is that theres no one on Anet (is willing to) play guardian and they only work class under espsorts medibuilds, even mace-shield pseudo bunkers can be downed in few seconds and almost all classes can be bulkier(in a sense of better survivability) than guard w/o loosing much offensive.

If they change it so it would give the 10% damage to allies as well when attacking people in your symbols, then it would give a whole new meaning to a staff/mace guardian bunker. Zeal might actually be a favorable part of some builds and writ of persistance might become much much more favorable to pure of voice if that was the case.

x indigo x.6981:

If they change it so it would give the 10% damage to allies as well when attacking people in your symbols, then it would give a whole new meaning to a staff/mace guardian bunker. Zeal might actually be a favorable part of some builds and writ of persistance might become much much more favorable to pure of voice if that was the case.

eww …zergs of guardian GS/hammer symbol builds? wasnt that one of the reason trait got nerfed since was easy to pvd due no limit symbol stacking bug ??? ;P

Aeolus.3615:

x indigo x.6981:

If they change it so it would give the 10% damage to allies as well when attacking people in your symbols, then it would give a whole new meaning to a staff/mace guardian bunker. Zeal might actually be a favorable part of some builds and writ of persistance might become much much more favorable to pure of voice if that was the case.

eww …zergs of guardian GS/hammer symbol builds? wasnt that one of the reason trait got nerfed since was easy to pvd due no limit symbol stacking bug ??? ;P

it got changed because the symbol % dmg was stacking, not because it was sharing.

ie. 10 guards drop symbols @ 10%, everyone in the symbol got 100% dmg incr

that was a prob, what wouldn’t be a prob

10 guards drop any number of symbols @10%, everyone in the symbols get 10% dmg incr, that wouldn’t be a big deal, and like some1 above said, that might actually make the 10% mod worthwhile.

as it is tho, its a challenge to keep that enemy in your symbol for 10% dmg, but these other 4 traits give you 20% perma once the enemy is below 50% health, thats a huge disparity.

It’s lame right now lol, 20% was only worth because of how predictable it was.

Symbolic Avenger GrandMaster is actually weaker then the Fiery Wrath minor trait. I do know that you can have both but if you look at these traits in vacuum the Minor is better.

Symbol uptime is restricted by weapon AND range. You get no benefit from it if you use sword+focus for example. Nor you have any bonus damage using scepter.

Fiery Wrath uptime however is not restricted by range (you proc burn every third or fifth auto anyways) and this trait works if the burn condition wasn’t applied by you…

If both of these trait were in the same line in a competitive group fight I would prefer the – currently minor – Fiery Wrath over the Symbolic Avenger any day!

So practically our Zeal Minor trait is more powerful according uptime than the Zeal Grandmaster.

Maybe a staff-hammer-mace or such a build could get more raw damage out of the Symbolic Avenger trait, but the 50-90 % uptime of the Fiery Wrath with it’s ONLY 7% modifier would be the superior choice….

…and we are back to the topic: I have no idea how ANET does the balance of the GW2… mostly with sledgehammers I guess….

My two cents…

EDIT: The symbolic avenger trait does not worth a GM spot! It would be a fair competitor for a minor one…

share your complete opinion here guys:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Guardian-Improvements

baroi.3264:

share your complete opinion here guys:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Guardian-Improvements

that threads already dead. we can barely get any dev support anyways, putting comments in a dead, catch all thread isn’t going to help the cause

our best bet is to be vocal enough on specific threads addressing obv probs and hope something as obv as how weak this GM trait is will catch a dev’s eye

Symbols are combo field and a team support tool. Why does symbolic avenger only give you the damage buff when the whole point of these things is to support the team?

Silhouette.5631:

Symbols are combo field and a team support tool. Why does symbolic avenger only give you the damage buff when the whole point of these things is to support the team?

Are you even serious? What do you expect for symbolic avenger to give you? In a offensive line? And “these things” all deal damage and provide different boons.

I don’t even know, this week was full kitten mode on guard forum.

I dunno. Kinda figured like a 10 stack of vulnerability but as a special effect(So it can go ontop of vuln). It would make people abit more scared of these things and really mess up anybody who wants to run in and do melee.

So basically what we have now but for the whole party.

OR!!!!

We could just give +10% DAMAGE to the party members standing in it. Since that’s what they are supposed to do anyways

Ok, agree. Would be nice to have more unique effects that stack on top of the regular condies/boons. And tbh I don’t think symbols should be a Zeal thing. I want my sword back as top DPS. I hate the fact that sword lost it’s top DPS position to mace (PVE meta wise), which is funny as mace is also our defensive 1H weapon. I think that Symbolic Exposure and Symbolic Power should be in Valor, along side with Glacial Heart.

Zeal needs to get some real minor’s that apply more general. Ohh and don’t get me started on radiance GM’s.

creepmatic.9435:

Zeal needs to get some real minor’s that apply more general. Ohh and don’t get me started on radiance GM’s.

<3

Let’s look at symbols as a whole because I run Symbol guardian in PvP every day and I win most of my fights.

1. 10% damage to anyone in your symbol
2. Symbols have greater damage (10%) and now burn (33%)
3. Symbols apply vulnerability (+1% damage (power or condition))
4. Symbols last longer, heal, and are larger

Now add in some other traits
1. +7% against burning foes (1/3rd of the time while in symbols due to #2)

Add Runes
1. Rune of Flame Legion: 25% to burn when hit, +7% damage against burning foes

Total damage increase: +10% damage without conditions, 11% damage per pulse, 25% maximum damage 33% of the time. Averaged out it’s 15% damage every pulse.

Add in that you get a boon per pulse AND you can heal per pulse and do you see how you can max out symbols?

GS can be traited to heal when used, combined with symbol’s healing, you can increase the healing from symbol of wrath by 20% per pulse. Mace can be traited to increase healing when blocking which will increase your healing by another 15%.

Meaning that you can max out your pulse healing by an extra 35% giving you (with VoR) pulsing healing of about 350. Almost the same has Warrior signet healing. Combined with blocking, invuln, and blinds. You can eek out some good regen.

You can build around symbols but you will lack other things. However that’s no different than building around medication, shouts, or signets.

Oh yes we all should praise the allmighty symbols and spirit weapons… Just keep listing the modifiers and I can tell you even more how much they suck…. IF the enemy stands still… If your party members stay still… They wont….

Hell I’m even struggling to position my AR in a teamfight not to mention a symbol….

If you really think you are able to enjoy these multipliers for more than a second… You are either a top player or somebody who has no idea how sPvP works in reality…

Just my two cents…

Happy Guardin’!

Theifz. I helped a lot of my guild mates rebuild after the specializations update. No other class had a trait line that I avoided as hard as the zeal trait line because some weapons just DON’T benefit from it AT ALL. It’s not that you CAN build around symbols it’s that you HAVE to if you take that line.
Also you probably win because you’re a good player. I can tell you it isn’t because your zeal line is showing you love.

Ok, well let me clarify. In Conquest PVP, where you have to stand on points. They work when grouped with other modifiers. Just like on a shout build, you’ll probably take soldiers, on a burn build, you will take flame legion and symbols since it increases passive burning. You focus around skills that provide burning stacks. You can help your symbols by putting Purging flames on top of that for a fire field and burn stacks. Now you are pulsing 4 stacks of burning every 2 seconds.

You can’t compare a 20% increase damage when the opponent is at 50% hp in a vacuum. Symbols, when done with a goal in mind (Conquest), are decent. It’s not meditation guard and it’s not bunker guard. It’s just different. I would benefit from a 20% increase so doesn’t matter to me.

Thiefz .. This ia response to you:

There are so many things wrong here that i don’t know where to begin..

1. range pressure on point is THE STRONGEST way of getting a guardian off point. The enemy player DOES NOT have to be on point in order to ge the guardian off . (rangers , mesmers , bow warriors, grenade engis, well necros, minion mance necros, staff eles, , etc) .. the idea that i can hold on point cause the enemy has to come on point and stand in my symbols is ludicrious cause that’s RARELY the case. It’s areay of denial tactics and pressureing the guardian OFF point and then capping it yourself when the guard is off of it or downed or dead.

2. Symbols DO NOT increase burning damage. ANY DAMAGE MODIFIER trait, rune , or sigil DO NOT increase condition damage unless it explicitly says it does. What i mean is : Symbolic avenger, Fiery Wrath , Sigil of force, sigil of strength .. etc .. anything that says +x% damage DOES NOT increase condtion damage nor does it in crease Retaliation damage. It’s been tested and proven (i reteseted it myself after specialization) . So saying that burn builds will take Symbolic Avenger to increase passive burn damage is way way missing the mark.

3. Purging flames DOES NOT pulse burning .. It places an initial 3 stacks of burning and that’s it . In order for purging flames to apply more burning to the enemy player, he has to CROSS it . ie he has to walk/run through the borders of the ring of purging flames which would stack 3 more stacks of burning on him (if he dodges through the ring, he doesn’t get the burning) . Also , if he stands inside the ring and never cross it, he will not get more burning than the initial 3 stacks of burning. I’ts been proven and tested. It deson’t. So please don’t confuse people by saying it pulses burning.

4. Even if you’re running a burning build in PVP (this is different in wvw) 9/10 you’re not running a symbol based weapon (mace/staff/hammer) .. the greatsword is the only weapon that has a symbol that fits a burning build style. Why do you say so ? because burning guardian is based on maximizing hits/second. the more you can hit per second that more burn you achieve.. the mace/staff/hammer tend to have very low hits/second when compared with scepter/torch/sword/greatsowrd. Those weapons maximize hits/second. No one in their right mind would use a symbol based setup for pvp for a burn build UNLESS they’re making some sort of a hybrid BUNKER/BURN which i tried and was gimmiky and awkward to use.

5- you said "You can’t compare a 20% increase damage when the opponent is at 50% hp in a vacuum. Symbols, when done with a goal in mind (Conquest), are decent. It’s not meditation guard and it’s not bunker guard. It’s just different. I would benefit from a 20% increase so doesn’t matter to me. " .. I’d like to respond by saying it’s not a vaccum that the comparision is done in. You say it builds up when the other traits are taken into account? the issue is that every single trait that maximizes damage on guard is subpar compared to other classes. (fire based 7+ , retaltiaion based 10%, symbol based 10%) so AT BEST case we have 27% more damage when : enemy has burn, we have retal, AND they are standing in our symbol . Meaning what ? Iam forced to use 2 lines (zeal and radiance) and forced to trait into 4 traits in order to get something that’s VERY conditional at best and a tiny bit stronger than what other classes are getting WITHOUT those limitations . What do i mean with that ? the other classes are getting that 20% increase WITHOUT a ton of conditions set on them triggering, WITHOUT being forced into 4 traits as they get it in ONE trait. No sir it’s not a vaccum.. it’s plain and simple facts.

For DAMAGE MODIFIERS to stack up on a guard to reach similar levels to other classes, you’re forced into 2-3 trait lines .. and forced into 4 traits MINIMUM while other classes get it in 1 SINGLE TRAIT. You have to MAINTAIN multiple conditions (burn/retal/enemy in symbol) while they just focus on damaging enemy without convuluted conditions to manage. You have to spec to maximize: burn procs, retal uptime, symbol uptime, and cc to hold enemy in symbols .. those CAN NOT be put together in a viable build.. the uptime in retal isn’t matching the need for it to maintaing the damage buff ..

2 choices here:

1 – Symbolic avenger damage % increases to 20%

OR

2 – Symbolic avenger makes allies hit the enemy standing in the symbol for 10% more damage (preferable .. better fitting the guardian role .. more use in pvp and wvw) as others said it doesn’t have to stack for guardians or it would be broken. there could be 50 symbols .. only a 10% increase will be achieved.

Ok. Thanks for the info.

1. I use GS/Mace/Focus. I understand the range, you could counter with shield 5 but focus 5 is better for blasting fire field off of purging flames. So that means I have mace 3, focus 5, F3, 2 dodges, and if needed shelter to hold the point while I cap it. Now, when you talk about pressure, from range, while he’s ranging me, I put down mace 2 for regen AND heal from symbol. I use celestial so the heal isn’t horrible. This is normally how I fight range users on open at home since a thief is always sent or mesmer. At some point, the opponent knows they have to get on point to stop the cap at which point you lay down purging flames.
So yes, ranging is difficult but there are ways to hold the point against ranged opponents. (Shield 5 is very nice against GS mesmers and rangers)

2. Symbols, when traited for VULNERABILITY increase condition and normal damage. It’s 1% true but it is still true even though the stacks come off fast. Eeking out extra damage is what all min/maxers do.

3. I sit corrected. Granted, it is no different than ring of fire. However I use purging flames as part of my burst opener. JI, F1 immob, Symbol of Wrath, purging flames.

4. Yes, I use a celestial hybrid. The strategy I listed in 1 holds true in a 1v1 scenario. Dropping symbols and purging flames into a multi team fight has other benefits. Group healing, boons, condi clear, fire fields, AOE damage, condition damage. It’s not that it does 1 thing well but many things Ok. Adding direct damage+modifiers+condition damage means that your overall output isn’t bad. Likewise you have SOME (not alot) group support and self sustain. If you get focus fired, you are screwed but team fights are team fights. You have 2 blinds and some blocks to help. Also immob in symbols is good. The point of the build isn’t about maxing damage or maxing support, it that in this world of meta burst or bunk, it can fill the role for a short time. Can I move fast? Nope. Can I take out NPC for points fast? Nope.

5. So this is the crux of the issue right. One trait that seems easy mode 20% straight up damage at 50% or several traits/runs that get up to that but it’s all the time. I have argued that due to the options available to us we could get 20% or more to damage fairly regularly. Now let’s say we did add another 10% back to what it was. I could now get 30% damage increase all the time for those standing in symbols. I’m just saying that we need to review what we can do when we min/max to say, is that fair. I’ve merely pointed out how one can min/max to get the full potential from symbols having played this build both pre and post patch.

I just wanted to be a counter point. I can agree that symbols are rarely used so it’s not going to be overwhelming but I do think there is a place, from where I play. Now my queue times are less than 4 minutes so my MMR isn’t great. I just seem to have good luck perhaps.