Guild Wars 2

One of the reasons symbols are not effective in PvP, WvW and in raids is because our friends and foes are mostly not standing still in one position. Instead our symbols should either be tethered to the Guardian or around the enemy target. This would allow the symbols to be more effective in dynamic situations subject to mobility. For example, the hammer and mace symbols are defensive of nature and should be surrounding the guardian. While the greatsword and longbow symbols are more offensive and should surround the enemy target.

This could also potentially solve our movement speed problem. As the staff symbol gives us swiftness and by making it tether to the guardian we would have a reliable source of permanent swiftness.

Perhaps it could be part of a trait to give Guardians a choice for those who prefer the current mechanics of symbols.

What about Symbols that work both offensively and defensively?

• Symbol of Swiftness on staff grants damage and swiftness.
• Symbol of Energy burns and grants vigor. (This is one I often switch the offensive/defensive use of.)
• Symbol of Faith damages and rants Regen
• Symbol of Wrath grants retaliation to allies and damages foes.

You said symbols are defensive or offensive of nature but I find this to often not be the cause.

we are already a asource of perma swiftness…

Light fields also clear condis form who shoots trough them.

Still for mace i woul love to get mace 2 removed… skill does nothing usefull for gurdian or its allies and neither is a threat for the target.

Nero.8047:

What about Symbols that work both offensively and defensively?

• Symbol of Swiftness on staff grants damage and swiftness.
• Symbol of Energy burns and grants vigor. (This is one I often switch the offensive/defensive use of.)
• Symbol of Faith damages and rants Regen
• Symbol of Wrath grants retaliation to allies and damages foes.

You said symbols are defensive or offensive of nature but I find this to often not be the cause.

Yes, you are correct. Splitting the symbols in two groups was not a good description of me. I understand that symbols can have multiple purposes. Especially with the symbols where we have the freedom of placement both close and far away (staff and longbow) I see some complications for losing some functionality.

Which is why I propose to make it a trait. This way the change doesn’t pigeonhole guardians into a symbol mechanic that could be disadvantageous in some situations. Instead, it gives the guardian build diversity with regards to the functionality of symbols. Which is much needed in some situations where enemies and party members are too mobile.

For example, the damage of the hammer and mace symbol would still be easily applied on the enemy because in both cases the guardian is already in melee range. I would already be happy if they just made this change only for hammer and mace and left the symbols on staff and longbow the way they are right now.

GS is melee range so make sense have the same range description as mace and hammer.
Even making symbols moving with guard, i dotn see how that would help the class.

Aeolus.3615:

we are already a asource of perma swiftness…

Light fields also clear condis form who shoots trough them.

Still for mace i woul love to get mace 2 removed… skill does nothing usefull for gurdian or its allies and neither is a threat for the target.

The symbol is the only thing that makes mace somewhat viable in pve so no.

If all symbols turned into walking AoE fields that follow you like the Berserker Torch, it would be a good change.

Darknicrofia.2604:

If all symbols turned into walking AoE fields that follow you like the Berserker Torch, it would be a good change.

Agreed. If the point of Guardian is to buff team and be frontline pillars, leaving your symbols so they can be left behind on the ground by moving away from them is a rather silly implementation of them, offensively or defensively.

Darknicrofia.2604:

If all symbols turned into walking AoE fields that follow you like the Berserker Torch, it would be a good change.

Yes. Like the Flames of War from the Berserker’s #5 torch skill. Or the Tempest overloads (without the channeling of course).

My main problem with the current symbols is that you can’t run after an enemy while taking advantage of the symbol. The symbols stay behind and are therefore rather useless. Only when the target remains fixed in one position is where symbols really shine which isn’t all that often. Especially with the hammer and mace the symbols are a vital part of their rotations, both in damage as well as support.

cranos.5913:

Aeolus.3615:

we are already a asource of perma swiftness…

Light fields also clear condis form who shoots trough them.

Still for mace i woul love to get mace 2 removed… skill does nothing usefull for gurdian or its allies and neither is a threat for the target.

The symbol is the only thing that makes mace somewhat viable in pve so no.

Well that i dont know, i dont do pve, but since mobs dont evade stuff makes sense.

Wonder if symbols had Writ of persistance native :P or something similiar that helps allies on symbols.

Remove the ligth field effect and make something guardianish probabaly???

Make it some mixture of symbols + concecrations? where people with traited on virtues/concecrations line could get a buff on symbols and thieir build? last longer, so we could have access to “decent boons” while inside our field place/symbols,
if we move place we could relocate the skill since would get reduced to 4-6 seconds instead of the 8 seconds??

What if guardian symbols were concrations based with fire and light(holy properties similiar to gw1 ??) deppending some trait or atunement?

Aeolus.3615:

cranos.5913:

Aeolus.3615:

we are already a asource of perma swiftness…

Light fields also clear condis form who shoots trough them.

Still for mace i woul love to get mace 2 removed… skill does nothing usefull for gurdian or its allies and neither is a threat for the target.

The symbol is the only thing that makes mace somewhat viable in pve so no.

Well that i dont know, i dont do pve, but since mobs dont evade stuff makes sense.

Some mobs (a lot of them) actually do evade and sometimes they also just randomly move – for example if you run into/through their hitbox or because of bad terrain.
And i’m not even talking about all those happy bowbear rangers using their #4 knockback all the time in open world content. It’s so annoying.
This would really help guardians..

Chingiz.9167:

Aeolus.3615:

cranos.5913:

Aeolus.3615:

we are already a asource of perma swiftness…

Light fields also clear condis form who shoots trough them.

Still for mace i woul love to get mace 2 removed… skill does nothing usefull for gurdian or its allies and neither is a threat for the target.

The symbol is the only thing that makes mace somewhat viable in pve so no.

Well that i dont know, i dont do pve, but since mobs dont evade stuff makes sense.

Some mobs (a lot of them) actually do evade and sometimes they also just randomly move – for example if you run into/through their hitbox or because of bad terrain.
And i’m not even talking about all those happy bowbear rangers using their #4 knockback all the time in open world content. It’s so annoying.
This would really help guardians..

That tends to happen in pvp component as well some ally saving the enemie from your symbol, not that it would do anything but…. it is annoying… even if the enemy stays on your symbol couse it is not doing anythign on him and not helpin me… people will just KB the target from it…

Aeolus.3615:

cranos.5913:

Aeolus.3615:

we are already a asource of perma swiftness…

Light fields also clear condis form who shoots trough them.

Still for mace i woul love to get mace 2 removed… skill does nothing usefull for gurdian or its allies and neither is a threat for the target.

The symbol is the only thing that makes mace somewhat viable in pve so no.

Well that i dont know, i dont do pve, but since mobs dont evade stuff makes sense.

Wonder if symbols had Writ of persistance native :P or something similiar that helps allies on symbols.

Remove the ligth field effect and make something guardianish probabaly???

Make it some mixture of symbols + concecrations? where people with traited on virtues/concecrations line could get a buff on symbols and thieir build? last longer, so we could have access to “decent boons” while inside our field place/symbols,
if we move place we could relocate the skill since would get reduced to 4-6 seconds instead of the 8 seconds??

What if guardian symbols were concrations based with fire and light(holy properties similiar to gw1 ??) deppending some trait or atunement?

From pve PoV in most encounters (instanced) bosses don’t rly move much so you want that symbol for the dmg modifier in zeal. That’s why it’s pretty decent in burst encounters (dungeons/low fracs).

If writ of persistence was integrated that’d be a decent pve buff already, especially for hammer builds, since you no longer have to go in an otherwise useless traitline (honor) and can pick the dmg modifiers in virtues.

If symbols had burning and it’s decent condi guardian might finally be a thing.

An ofc if symbols moved with the guard they’d finally have a more decent spot on bosses where you move a lot, mainly raid encounters.

However sadly none of this fixes the issue that a guardian in raids is pretty much only auto attacking with hammer which is ofc extremely boring.

We could definitely use such an improvement. It would be especially good with swiftness symbol as we could move around and not being forced to stay for the whole boon to stack.

cranos.5913:

Aeolus.3615:

cranos.5913:

Aeolus.3615:

(…)t.

The symbol is the only thing that makes mace somewhat viable in pve so no.

Well that i dont know, i dont do pve, but since mobs dont evade stuff makes sense.

Wonder if symbols had Writ of persistance native :P or something similiar that helps allies on symbols.

Remove the ligth field effect and make something guardianish probabaly???

Make it some mixture of symbols + concecrations? where people with traited on virtues/concecrations line could get a buff on symbols and thieir build? last longer, so we could have access to “decent boons” while inside our field place/symbols,
if we move place we could relocate the skill since would get reduced to 4-6 seconds instead of the 8 seconds??

What if guardian symbols were concrations based with fire and light(holy properties similiar to gw1 ??) deppending some trait or atunement?

From pve PoV in most encounters (instanced) bosses don’t rly move much so you want that symbol for the dmg modifier in zeal. That’s why it’s pretty decent in burst encounters (dungeons/low fracs).

If writ of persistence was integrated that’d be a decent pve buff already, especially for hammer builds, since you no longer have to go in an otherwise useless traitline (honor) and can pick the dmg modifiers in virtues.

If symbols had burning and it’s decent condi guardian might finally be a thing.

An ofc if symbols moved with the guard they’d finally have a more decent spot on bosses where you move a lot, mainly raid encounters.

However sadly none of this fixes the issue that a guardian in raids is pretty much only auto attacking with hammer which is ofc extremely boring.

I would rather see a CD to symbol skills than see them moving,i dont know how raids are in this game, so i cant help much there, but sounds abit similiar to wvw where player is never on top of the symbols, so that makes them useless, not even the enemie hits them or decides to ignore.
What if?
Hammer 3rd AA needs to cast AOE prot w/o being a light fight or a symbol, and light symbol is aplyed on ring of warding, players/mob stuck on ring would take damage also, and CD decreased into 24 seconds?
That also would fix the light fields over other fields and avoid prople to AA and pressing ESC to cancel the 3rd AA.

Wirst of persistance would help guardian lack of surviability on WvW team play, probably we would see moreplayers encouraged of playing anything else besides meditrappers.

Aeolus.3615:

cranos.5913:

Aeolus.3615:

cranos.5913:

Aeolus.3615:

(…)t.

The symbol is the only thing that makes mace somewhat viable in pve so no.

Well that i dont know, i dont do pve, but since mobs dont evade stuff makes sense.

Wonder if symbols had Writ of persistance native :P or something similiar that helps allies on symbols.

Remove the ligth field effect and make something guardianish probabaly???

Make it some mixture of symbols + concecrations? where people with traited on virtues/concecrations line could get a buff on symbols and thieir build? last longer, so we could have access to “decent boons” while inside our field place/symbols,
if we move place we could relocate the skill since would get reduced to 4-6 seconds instead of the 8 seconds??

What if guardian symbols were concrations based with fire and light(holy properties similiar to gw1 ??) deppending some trait or atunement?

From pve PoV in most encounters (instanced) bosses don’t rly move much so you want that symbol for the dmg modifier in zeal. That’s why it’s pretty decent in burst encounters (dungeons/low fracs).

If writ of persistence was integrated that’d be a decent pve buff already, especially for hammer builds, since you no longer have to go in an otherwise useless traitline (honor) and can pick the dmg modifiers in virtues.

If symbols had burning and it’s decent condi guardian might finally be a thing.

An ofc if symbols moved with the guard they’d finally have a more decent spot on bosses where you move a lot, mainly raid encounters.

However sadly none of this fixes the issue that a guardian in raids is pretty much only auto attacking with hammer which is ofc extremely boring.

I would rather see a CD to symbol skills than see them moving,i dont know how raids are in this game, so i cant help much there, but sounds abit similiar to wvw where player is never on top of the symbols, so that makes them useless, not even the enemie hits them or decides to ignore.
What if?
Hammer 3rd AA needs to cast AOE prot w/o being a light fight or a symbol, and light symbol is aplyed on ring of warding, players/mob stuck on ring would take damage also, and CD decreased into 24 seconds?
That also would fix the light fields over other fields and avoid prople to AA and pressing ESC to cancel the 3rd AA.

Wirst of persistance would help guardian lack of surviability on WvW team play, probably we would see moreplayers encouraged of playing anything else besides meditrappers.

Most likely it’d be a massive nerf to the guard. Protection is only secondary in raids, yes it’s alright to have but tbh it’s not rly necessary, which is why they generally stack eles. Guardian dps currently comes from overlapping long lasting symbols so you get double ticks through the use of permanent quickness coming from the chrono. This is why you need writ of persistence and why the boss needs to be stationary.

Either way the problem of auto attacking will keep existing since mighty blow, the only other dps skill on the hammer isn’t scaled by quickness due to it being a “mobility” skill (lol at that one) so it’s actually a dps loss over auto attacking.

The only thing that actually has a rotation are GS builds, but GS is only decent for high bursts, which overall limits its use to targets that die quickly (dungeons, low fracs) and is less suitable for raids. GS would need CD reductions on its skills (especially whirling wrath), bug fixes (really WW does less dmg on norn and charr anet?) and prob a more viable second set to swap to during CDs since GS auto is weak as hell.

cranos.5913:

The only thing that actually has a rotation are GS builds, but GS is only decent for high bursts, which overall limits its use to targets that die quickly (dungeons, low fracs) and is less suitable for raids. GS would need CD reductions on its skills (especially whirling wrath), bug fixes (really WW does less dmg on norn and charr anet?) and prob a more viable second set to swap to during CDs since GS auto is weak as hell.

That’s a viable alternative solution. If we can somehow manage to design our mobile builds to be more effective I wouldn’t care so much about requesting mobile symbols. We could probably have even more diversified builds then. Both greatsword and sword are currently under par when it comes to pure DPS output and added support to parties.

I agree with your greatsword suggestions. Although I think the disorganized Zeal and Radiation traitlines have an impact as well. Zeal suffers from reliability on symbols too much. Which isn’t exactly the core of the greatsword. While radiation is too focused on conditions while sword does none of that. At the same time the Radiance trait related to retaliation and signets are too weak. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Our traits are a mess.

the problem isn’t symbols being stationary, I actually LIKE the nature of symbols. The problem is KEEPING your target in them. GW2 has many ways this can be done, taunt, root, knock-down, stun, chill, slow. hell, add a ring of warding to symbols. The Guardian is the master of pbaoe, with consecrations, traps, meditations, symbols. Moving symbols would cheapen the pbaoe-ness. its bad enough consecrations became targetable. I use to enjoy overlapping my consecrations and symbols and frying anything that came at me.

giving us more pulls like on greatsword, or justice would help as well. Ideally, i would like to see more pull options with a pulsing chill, slow or taunt with weakness on my symbols, and a knockback (back into the symbol) if one tries to escape without using a counter.

edit: spell check mishaps. consecrations should be less “concentrated”.

Delgotta.3817:

the problem isn’t symbols being stationary, I actually LIKE the nature of symbols. The problem is KEEPING your target in them. GW2 has many ways this can be done, taunt, root, knock-down, stun, chill, slow. hell, add a ring of warding to symbols. The Guardian is the master of pbaoe, with concentrations, traps, meditations, symbols. Moving symbols would cheapen the pbaoe-ness. its bad enough concentrations became targetable. I use to enjoy overlapping my concentrations and symbols and frying anything that came at me.

giving us more pulls like on greatsword, or justice would help as well. Ideally, i would like to see more pull options with a pulsing chill, slow or taunt with weakness on my symbols, and a knockback (back into the symbol) if one tries to escape without using a counter.

Dude they’re consecrations, not concentrations.
But thanks for the tips

Delgotta.3817:

(…)
giving us more pulls like on greatsword, or justice would help as well. Ideally, i would like to see more pull options with a pulsing chill, slow or taunt with weakness on my symbols, and a knockback (back into the symbol) if one tries to escape without using a counter.

I use spear to pull them to symbols+trap and if they move i can KB to it and criple with shield.

Taunt targets to trap…. would be to easy,

Aeolus.3615:

Delgotta.3817:

(…)
giving us more pulls like on greatsword, or justice would help as well. Ideally, i would like to see more pull options with a pulsing chill, slow or taunt with weakness on my symbols, and a knockback (back into the symbol) if one tries to escape without using a counter.

I use spear to pull them to symbols+trap and if they move i can KB to it and criple with shield.

Taunt targets to trap…. would be to easy,

i was referring more for taunt in symbols. traps as they are right now, i have no issue with. consecrations and symbols need some love.

i’m more in favor of either chill or weakness while in, and slow when they exit. giving shorter cd on spear would combo nicely as well.

the thing that drew me to guardian was playing mace-shield consecrations guardian and claiming an area by overlapping my symbols and consecrations. creating my own holy ground of burning death that healed me. becoming master of this little turf i dug out. if they tried to run, switch to great sword, use my pull, drop another symbol, switch back to mace and watch them burn.

I would love for our symbols to be tethered to us. Allies could huddle around us as we move and receive boons…

Aeolus.3615:

Still for mace i woul love to get mace 2 removed… skill does nothing usefull for gurdian or its allies and neither is a threat for the target.

ähm… no?

mace 2 has a traited uptime of 95% can provide a around 500 hp/s in comboed with AH, triggers passiv VoJ more often then any other weapon when fighting 2+ enemies, it can burn, cast vurnability and is basically a 7%10%10% damage modifier in itself and 17% for anything else.

how is that nothing?

Asmodal.6489:

Aeolus.3615:

Still for mace i woul love to get mace 2 removed… skill does nothing usefull for gurdian or its allies and neither is a threat for the target.

ähm… no?

mace 2 has a traited uptime of 95% can provide a around 500 hp/s in comboed with AH, triggers passiv VoJ more often then any other weapon when fighting 2+ enemies, it can burn, cast vurnability and is basically a 7%10%10% damage modifier in itself and 17% for anything else.

how is that nothing?

In pvp or wvw it’s a pretty disappointing skill. The cast time is far too long, the regen pulse is also way too short which is odd because regen has never at any point been op. Restricted access to boons is usually indicative of the boon’s strength.

Arcaedus.7290:

Asmodal.6489:

Aeolus.3615:

Still for mace i woul love to get mace 2 removed… skill does nothing usefull for gurdian or its allies and neither is a threat for the target.

ähm… no?

mace 2 has a traited uptime of 95% can provide a around 500 hp/s in comboed with AH, triggers passiv VoJ more often then any other weapon when fighting 2+ enemies, it can burn, cast vurnability and is basically a 7%10%10% damage modifier in itself and 17% for anything else.

how is that nothing?

In pvp or wvw it’s a pretty disappointing skill. The cast time is far too long, the regen pulse is also way too short which is odd because regen has never at any point been op. Restricted access to boons is usually indicative of the boon’s strength.

Heh, you’d think Engies wouldn’t have so much access to stability or Eles to protection

mrauls.6519:

Arcaedus.7290:

Asmodal.6489:

Aeolus.3615:

Still for mace i woul love to get mace 2 removed… skill does nothing usefull for gurdian or its allies and neither is a threat for the target.

ähm… no?

mace 2 has a traited uptime of 95% can provide a around 500 hp/s in comboed with AH, triggers passiv VoJ more often then any other weapon when fighting 2+ enemies, it can burn, cast vurnability and is basically a 7%10%10% damage modifier in itself and 17% for anything else.

how is that nothing?

In pvp or wvw it’s a pretty disappointing skill. The cast time is far too long, the regen pulse is also way too short which is odd because regen has never at any point been op. Restricted access to boons is usually indicative of the boon’s strength.

Heh, you’d think Engies wouldn’t have so much access to stability or Eles to protection

You’re definitely right. I don’t personally agree with what I said, but it’s what I perceive ANet’s policy on boons to be. Arguably though, eles need that protection uptime to survive and engis stab application is selfish in nature and has some counterplay.

So you want to make them facets, but with mobile combo fields.

I think at that point, they would no longer be Symbols

Astra Lux.2846:

So you want to make them facets, but with mobile combo fields.

Yes and no. There are differences between facets and symbols. The comparison is more accurate with Warrior torch #5 or tempest overloads.

Especially after the latest patch where Guardians are now actively using symbols on every weapon it becomes even more of a necessity. Symbols work fine on static enemies but lose their effectiveness as soon as enemies move around. For example, Guardians are welcome in raids for bosses like Sabetha but are hindered from joining bosses like Xera. The majority of our strength, both damage and support, comes from symbols. If they cannot be effectively applied than the Guardian will never be part of that meta. Criticism also comes in PvP where the hammer auto-attack is too slow and enemies move around too much for the symbol to be useful.