Guild Wars 2

Prelude
This is the first time that i’m immensely unhappy with the state of Guardian. During the celestial amulet era, Guardian was still ok in soloQ. We were still ok in certain 1v1 scenarios. We had a bunker build. We had a niche 1v1 burn build. We had a more competitive power variant. Though improvements were needed, It was “OK”.

The Burn era hit and I was ecstatic. We had changes to a build that a lot of players loved, albeit, niche at times but it worked. Burn Guard was meta for a short while following HoT…

HoT
I shouldn’t have to say how little build diverse HoT made the game… that in itself is a topic for another thread. My main concern, presently, is how ineffective Guardian has gotten. More importantly.. how another game mode influenced our class changes.

A large portion of the changes occurring for the guardian are aimed toward reducing the dragonhunter’s group controlling and killing capacity in WvW…

How can Anet balanced a class around a Game Mode that had nothing to do with a Structured PvP?

There’s a reason why it’s called Structured. It is arranged differently, and should act differently, than any other game mode. There should not be any conflict of interests between PvE, WvW and Structured PvP.

Here is what DH can’t do in Conquest, compared to other classes
DH can’t assault or defend side points efficiently like other classes…
DH can’t roam efficiently like other classes…
DH can’t support better than Ele or even Engi’s Gyros…
DH can’t self sustain better than other classes…

And I’m not just talking about Guardian. Thanks to Reapers no longer being the Achilles heel to the classes we absolutely can’t handle, our overall effectiveness in TPvP has reduced substantially.

Current meta is looking at Mes, Rev, Engi, Ele & Druid with Thief & DH being an arguable 5th maybe. Guard can do “ok” in team fights but… how the heck can we deal damages when our LB#5 Fails to hit a group, or our LB#3 15% dmg increase doesn’t do enough in a sustain fight to be wild, & we can’t sustain as well as the mentioned team composition above? Hard to rotate a class to home or far to contest the point when you know that class has a 0 chance of winning it.

TL;DR
The patch’s 20% True Shot nerf & LB#5 “block negates the skill completely” addition… is more ineffective than the Dev’s planned. The changes were influenced by WvW rather than Structured PvP. We have no build diversity and Guardian is starting to play very sour overall.

With that being said, we want to keep the dragonhunter competitive and still dealing high damage, but we want the damage dealt a little less instantly than before.

You’re making a class who was not mechanically made to sustain very well, have less burst damages. If my well timed True Shot lands but doesn’t damage enough, our Traps can’t burst well enough (previous nerf), we can’t land LB#5 efficiently enough, and we can’t sustain as well as other classes in a team fight… How exactly are you keeping Guardian “competitive” in PvP? It all sounds very counter intuitive.

Hello. I read your post and i agree. The Solution that i see that can solve this is to separate the dmg done in WvW to the battlegrounds and arenas.

I always loved guild wars for the limited build skill and diversity that each profission can provide. I Love the combos that we can do with them. Unffortunatly, guardian is a bit restricted in my point of view. Feels like we are forced to follow a certain build to be a sustainted class in PvP. Right now guardian with the 20% dmg nerf should have true shot instant cast to provide mobility .

pvp is not PvE, players can predict other people actions and defend against some skills and avoid the dmg. And true shot is WAY too easy

first we need to stay on the place to cast the skill

second, it’s so predictable and every One dodges or blocks it. It’s a skill that easly avoided because people can read it.

We need a fix on the class. Also guardian is the class that i Love the most . but even now on PvE seems a bit hard to do it alone. It’s not i want the game easy but, compared to other alternative classes i have , guardian just miss something.

Sorry for any grammar errors.

WARNING: This will be long. I suggest skipping to the conclusion if you hate reading

Okay so lets acknowledge what you said that was correct.

The game is sorely in need of build diversity. This is very evident. Hell i can’t remember the last time i fought anything other than the same Elementalist build, necromancer build, guardian build, Mesmer or engineer build. So yeah, you nailed it on the head.

(speaking of which, where do Elementalists and necromancers get off having that much sustain, and that much damage all at the same time? Necros are even worse because they have huge condition bursts, huge direct damage burst potential, and ridiculous sustain all at the same time. Elementalists have the conman decency to just have sustain and direct damage even if that sustain is even worse than necro. Rant end)

Anyway, now lets discuss what you got wrong. Pretty much everything else. (not quite but i’ll keep it simple)

Dragon Hunter
Great sustain: there is lots of active and passive sustain on the guardian and dragon hunter is no different. Don’t use OP professions as your judge as to what has more sustain. Tempest, Reaper, and Chrono especially. They are very overpowered right now.

Attacking side points
That’s because you are going about it wrong. You can’t land on a point, drop all your traps, then expect everyone to just die.

Defensing Side points
You do know that your traps last for 5 minutes right? that’s more than enough time for you to have full traps by the time your opponents show up. by they time they do show up you have already tailored the battle field to your advantage. Unless you have all your traps in one spot ( which you should not) it is likelly that they will:

• Pop PoB.
• Try to get out of PoB
• Run into another trap
• Try to get out of it pop stab, or any nuber of other moves
• Run into another trap
• another, and another, as you just create a zone of death and sadness and hit them with TS, Pulls, Knock backs, etc.
• Sure you may not be a bunker. you can’t likely fight more than two people effectively, but you are not meant to. you are a damage dealer, All those other classes that can be everything all at once are over powered. everyone knows that.

Roaming
As far as speed foes, I agree with you. sort of. you should be moving between home and mid. that is your roll. once mid is secured, you can move from mid to home or mid to far. but never try to go from home to far. you are too slow.

Can’t Support better than elementalists and engineers
Okay, I’m going to say this again. Stop comparing yourself to professions which are entirely overpowered. Yes, engineers and elementalists can do everything. heck they can do everything with one build. this does not speak against Guardian. It speaks against the other professions. They are just too over powered. in a perfect world every class would have a build for Support, Defense, and Damage. separate builds for separate roles. interestingly enough guardian does have this sort of set up. Dragon hunter is the damage build. Shouts are the support build, and meditations are the defense. (more maybe i have that backwards) but elementalists only have the one build, and it does everything. Same with Necros (for the most part) and engineers.

in order of most to least balanced IMO

• Guardian (VERY Balanced. Follows the Support, Damage, Bunker, setup)
• Warrior (Very balanced with a few problems that are getting worked out.)
• Ranger (Follows the damage, support, Bunker, but has a few power issues.)
• Revenant (Very balanced, but buggy and does not follow the bunker, suport, damage setup)
• Thief (Only balanced because the overpowered damage makes up for their ridiculously under powered sustain)
• Engineers (Just completely over powered. too much sustian+damage+supporty all in one)
• Mesmers: (same problem as above)
• Elementalists (Same problem with Engineers)
• Necromancers (Just WHAT?!?!?! Massive condi spikes, Massive sustain, Massive Melee burst potential, Massive CC all in the same freaking build?)

You see how that list suddenly changed after thief? There is no transition. Just balanced, broken(as in actually needs fixed) and Overpowered)

Conclusion
It’s not your profession that’s the problem. Its the current unbalanced set up of other professions. Personally I think that Guardians are very balanced as a profession. I hope this did not get on your nerves. I love the guardian. but you gotta know, that when you tell Anet to buff your class, you are just inviting more unbalance. Right now the game does not need buffs. Classes need to be modified down slightly so that they all go down to the same level. If I buff one class while simultaneously nerfing another, i’ll just reverse the power levels so to speak.

You right. The other classes need to be fixed and guardian be on it’s place. But sometimes guardian feels like … Dont know the correct word but, easly readable . and yes i place my traps and try to lure enemies to it, and place them before fight starts . but yes maybe there are other classes that might need prio fixes beside guardians. I like this like the most but when i go PvP some classes just destroy everything . it’s wierd how this came to this stage .

I agree, but I also think part of the problem is our specialization isn’t really specializing in something we weren’t already good at. Before trap burst builds we had medi-burst which was arguably better because it had some sustain.

I don’t agree that we’re balanced in support. We provide protection, which is great for long battles, but would love for us to provide better regen and maybe even resistance. It’s not just that some classes are overpowered, this has been the case for sometime. It is the norm and it is clear others won’t be dropped, so we need to raised a little.

The biggest problem with guardian competitiveness is our trait lines. They often times compete against each other.

emkelly.2371:

Dragon Hunter
Great sustain: there is lots of active and passive sustain on the guardian and dragon hunter is no different. Don’t use OP professions as your judge as to what has more sustain. Tempest, Reaper, and Chrono especially. They are very overpowered right now.

Attacking side points
That’s because you are going about it wrong. You can’t land on a point, drop all your traps, then expect everyone to just die.

Defensing Side points
You do know that your traps last for 5 minutes right? that’s more than enough time for you to have full traps by the time your opponents show up. by they time they do show up you have already tailored the battle field to your advantage. Unless you have all your traps in one spot ( which you should not) it is likelly that they will:

• Pop PoB.
• Try to get out of PoB
• Run into another trap
• Try to get out of it pop stab, or any nuber of other moves
• Run into another trap
• another, and another, as you just create a zone of death and sadness and hit them with TS, Pulls, Knock backs, etc.
• Sure you may not be a bunker. you can’t likely fight more than two people effectively, but you are not meant to. you are a damage dealer, All those other classes that can be everything all at once are over powered. everyone knows that.

..Lets not assume that I unleash all of my traps at once like i’m an inexperienced player who’s “doing it all wrong”.

..Lets not assume I can “tailor the battlefield” by having enough time to pre-set traps. Lets not assume these traps can’t be blinded, evaded, or out right avoided altogether with ease… not counting our easy-to-avoid skill sets to make our trap combos like ToF + F1 pull worth while.

And lets not excuse my point about not having enough sustains compared to other classes simply because those classes are “op”.. … as if that’s suppose to mean they’re suddenly excused and my point is invalid.

To your conclusion,
The profession is the problem. Anet altered the LB#5 wayway wrong for starters but I guess WvW and PvP needs the same changes… /sarcasm
By the way I never once mentioned in my original post to Buff Guardians. You should probably stop assuming things.

Guardian is fine. Most HoT specs are just beyond broken and it makes guardian look weak.

In fact, DH is still a little too good and definitely very faceroll. It needs more depth and less faceroll.

Exedore.6320:

Guardian is fine. Most HoT specs are just beyond broken and it makes guardian look weak.

In fact, DH is still a little too good and definitely very faceroll. It needs more depth and less faceroll.

It’s only faceroll if the opponent is dumb enough to walk into your traps. Which plays into the whole “more depth” thing.

Ranger main here that played Guard plenty due to Dragonhunter being the elite spec that some rangers wanted.

I think the biggest problem of the Guard are the completely useless synergies. Added to this, there are subpar traits and skills:

You can build around spirit weapons – jee, thanks. There are several traits and skills that revolve around retaliation, all of them lackluster. Another marvel are symbol synergies, completely useless outside of PvE and even there you have better options. Due to the powercreep burnguard can easily be cleansed. Blocking traits feel extremely unrewarding. So the only thing you have left in core guard is building around meditations, that’s it. If they wouldn’t have changed the virtues, even the virtues traitline would have been pretty weak.

The first two things I’d want to see with guard are the rework of spirit weapons and retaliation traits/skills. Spirit weapons should be able to offer you meaningful utility and cleanse, so you’d have an alternative to meditations. Retaliation should trigger a guard specific effect(like necro had with chill), so you’d have a reason to have a high uptime, besides the ~250 damage that is barely useful.

I really like this class, but in this current state it’s a pain to play it.