Guild Wars 2

mPascoal.4258:

Saiyan.1704:

mPascoal.4258:

Why are ppl still trying to make Condi Guard a thing? Wanna play Condi? Go Engi, Necro, Ranger, whatever, all these are better than Guardian for condi play and any team, ANY team in their right mind will pick this to any Condi Guard out there. Condi Guard to have damage comparable to Zerk Medi will lose all team utility. Zerk Medi already has few, but will still have some because of the boon destribution and group condi clear. Condi Guard loses all that in orther to stay up with the damage of the standart Zerk Medi. Well then I will use the Burst Medi, and I want to see you do similiar damage after that ….

Zerk Medi isn’t already part of the meta, Condi Guard will never be there

The only thing you got right is the fact condi isn’t meta.
My 20606 build alone does exceptionally more aoe damage in zergs than meta zerks, with the exception of Absolute Resolution (how much team utility do zerk meds bring??)
Zerk meds do “very little” against a team with Two celes ele’s, a turret engi, thief and >insert sustain class here<.

You have nothing to justify your claims other than “Not meta, doesn’t work.”

ON ZERGS?
Wtf are you talking about? CONDI FOW WVW ZERGING!? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL Best joke of 2014, and Condi Guard for zergs

I have admit ive been testing hybrid condi in zergs and im finding it quite hard work. the 2/0/6/0/6 requires that you be right inside the zerg or at least next to it for the Permeating Wrath and i basically die too fast. due to lack of toughness/sustain. 4/0/6/0/4 using GS Scepter/Torch works better against zergs because the scepter will proc burning every 3rd hit and if you use zealous blade then GS heals when close. I feel that Hybrid/Condi builds are better suited for roaming solo/small groups not zergs.

Maybe i just need more practice.

Spartacus.3192:

mPascoal.4258:

Saiyan.1704:

mPascoal.4258:

Why are ppl still trying to make Condi Guard a thing? Wanna play Condi? Go Engi, Necro, Ranger, whatever, all these are better than Guardian for condi play and any team, ANY team in their right mind will pick this to any Condi Guard out there. Condi Guard to have damage comparable to Zerk Medi will lose all team utility. Zerk Medi already has few, but will still have some because of the boon destribution and group condi clear. Condi Guard loses all that in orther to stay up with the damage of the standart Zerk Medi. Well then I will use the Burst Medi, and I want to see you do similiar damage after that ….

Zerk Medi isn’t already part of the meta, Condi Guard will never be there

The only thing you got right is the fact condi isn’t meta.
My 20606 build alone does exceptionally more aoe damage in zergs than meta zerks, with the exception of Absolute Resolution (how much team utility do zerk meds bring??)
Zerk meds do “very little” against a team with Two celes ele’s, a turret engi, thief and >insert sustain class here<.

You have nothing to justify your claims other than “Not meta, doesn’t work.”

ON ZERGS?
Wtf are you talking about? CONDI FOW WVW ZERGING!? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL Best joke of 2014, and Condi Guard for zergs

I have admit ive been testing hybrid condi in zergs and im finding it quite hard work. the 2/0/6/0/6 requires that you be right inside the zerg or at least next to it for the Permeating Wrath and i basically die too fast. due to lack of toughness/sustain. 4/0/6/0/4 using GS Scepter/Torch works better against zergs because the scepter will proc burning every 3rd hit and if you use zealous blade then GS heals when close. I feel that Hybrid/Condi builds are better suited for roaming solo/small groups not zergs.

Maybe i just need more practice.

on zerg conditions wont work so well on the melee train cause the constant cleanse with shouts from the warrior and guardian
but on the backline the hybrid works better than the medzerk as it does better dmg dps or pressure the backline to use heals skills and focus on defense and not offence
guardian on zerk usually fo soldier or support while basically doing low dmg while giving boons and cleanse but if you look at them in a different approach you could see whole new abilities and role for them

mPascoal.4258:

ON ZERGS?
Wtf are you talking about? CONDI FOW WVW ZERGING!? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL Best joke of 2014, and Condi Guard for zergs

First of all, I NEVER said condi was viable in WVW. I’m strictly talking about TPvP.
Second of all, lets talk numbers since you seem to have a hard time understanding where i’m coming from.

Damage Tested on 5 Target Dummy’s w/ 2597 armor

Build 20606

Whirling Wrath – 42,444 Total Damage Dealt

Whirl Dmg: 8,784
Average Whirl Damage per person: 1,756
Burns Damage per person:: 6732
Total Burn Damage: 33,660

Leap of Faith – 10,108 Total Damage Dealt

Leap Dmg: 4,508
Average Damage per person: 901
Burns Damage per person: 1,122
Total Burn Damage: 5,600

Smite – 7,875 Total Damage Dealt

Smite Damage: 2,275
Average Damage per person: kitten
Burn Damage per person: 1,122
Burn Damage: 5,600

Build 21614 (or equivalent meta)

Whirling Wrath – 23,686 Total Damage Dealt
Whirl Dmg: 20,636
Average Whirl Damage per person: 4,127
Burn damage average: 340
Burn Damage: 3,060
Total Damage: 23,686

Leap of Faith – 7131 Total Damage Dealt
Leap Damage: 6791
Average Leap Damage per person: 1358
Burn Damage: 340

Smite – 4,579 Total Damage Dealt
Smite Damage: 4239
Average Smite Damage per person: 847
Burn Damage: 340

The damage and roles are clear for both builds. Obviously, raw damage is good burst while the hybrid build is favorable against sustain classes with high damage mitigation/blocks/blinds/dodges.

I’ll re-quote myself…

Saiyan.1704:

The only thing you got right is the fact condi isn’t meta.
My 20606 build alone does exceptionally more aoe damage in zergs than meta zerks, with the exception of Absolute Resolution (how much team utility do zerk meds bring??)
Zerk meds do “very little” against a team with Two celes ele’s, a turret engi, thief and >insert sustain class here<.

You have nothing to justify your claims other than “Not meta, doesn’t work.”

Hybrids, in theory, should do more damage.

Before you come back with the “But if you miss, then you can’t burn” argument…
In a group of 5, Whirling Wrath hits 42 times (including projectiles)
That’s 14 burn procs with permeating wrath.
Burns stack at max, 9 times. (it’s a mechanic thing)
You need a minimum of 27 hits to reach 9 stacks of burns.
9 stacks of burns is 12s worth of burns or 6,732 burn damage per person.

Conclusion
When they dodge/blind/block 15 hits worth of Whirling Wrath (for zerks that’s about 7k worth of total damage in a group) i’ll still give 33,660 worth of total burn damage, or 12s worth of aoe burns.

So, gonna dig into the math more:

I am deducting that you tested with a build that provides 2 seconds of burning per application based on the Leap of Faith numbers providing 1,122 burning after hitting 5 targets.

So 1,122 / 2 = 561 damage per burn tick.

Based on that, to see the full potential of Whirling Wrath burning damage you need to wait 12 seconds.

6732 / 561 = 12 seconds

Whirling Wrath has a cooldown of 10 seconds.

So if we are to take your zerker medi build numbers and double them to show two possible rotations in 12 seconds (duration of burning) we get:

Whirling Wrath – 47,390 Total Damage Dealt
Whirl Dmg: 41,270
Average Whirl Damage per person: 8,254
Burn damage average: 340
Burn Damage: 6,120
Total Damage: 47,390

So:
42,444 (burn build) vs. 47,390 (medi build) in 12 seconds

Actually, the numbers are pleasingly close to provide an “alternative”. Although, if the fight has less than 5 targets, the burn build suffers in damage potential.

You can double the burning build numbers too, but it will always be another 12 second after, which gives the medi build time to do another whirling wrath (always 1 rotation ahead).

So zerker medi does more damage in less time IF you land all the damage.

BUT condi guard requires hits to land burning as well (VoJ) so it still misses out on the potential damage on blocks/blinds/dodges.

The biggest argument is after application, the sustain of damage after initial burst keeps life down allowing for another rotation of burst, but that is fight/player dependent.

@Saiyan – you have to be careful in your theory dmg
i agree that hybrid does more Sdps (sustain dps) then zerk med- – its a fact proven
but in group fight the conditions will be cleanse . and again for the hybrid who can put the burning easily up again the cleanse are not an issue

here you can see full dire condi guardian in group fight and the dps on the group (gimmick build but lots of fun)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfE4SLm0Cfc

so far for me i can say its new build which ppl dont got used to it so they think you are zerk med and act accordingly while you conditions do their thing with 1k dps without being noticed

i have fought 1v1 almost every class with great success (sure i got down many times if i did mistakes ) but always i get compliments how my dmg is high or the 1v1 is very strong offense
i even took it to 1v2 and 1v3 and manage to down 1-2 even if i down as well

again ppl dont understand the build concept yet
its not zerkmed where you go in burst and go out (like any other zerk build)
its more go in block, aoe the area , use PF for more aoe, cc , push the enemies to use their utilities at the start of the fight so your team will have the upper hand even if you get down (or go back to refresh)

so far the ppl i fought with i manage in 1 first burst to put them in 50% hp 90% of the cases. after they use utilities or heal skill in my seconds burst which put them in 25% hp while i am 80% hp without using any heal/utilities.
sure some class will just counter you in 1v1 like d/d ele, hambow warrior, turret engi if fought in a point, etc… but like any other class and build its not OP