Guild Wars 2

Oh I know that gaurdians do have some very weak medium range abilities but lets face it, WvWvW is owned by the ranged professions. The Gaurdian is weakest in the most important part of WvWvW, siege combat. Gaurdians cant hit anything at the bottom or top of a keep or tower wall. Gaurdians are no more useful in open ranged combat than in siege combat. Gaurdians do not have the tools to charge into the middle of a large group of enemies and survive.

To make matters worse, gaurdians get no credit for providing support in WvWvW. I can see no legitimate role for the Gaurdian other than in PvE. Gaurdians really shine in PvE but PvE is not what GW2 is about is it?

The simple fact is that

Warrior Bow >> Gaurdian Staff or Scepter.

The more I WvWvW on my 80 Gaurdian, the less I like playing him. There is no useful role for a gaurdian in WvWvW. On an 80 Gaurdian in WvWvW there are two choices

1. Charge in and maybe get a kill or two, then die.
2. Stand back at the back of the back and spam buffs and heals.

Why do I feel like I am playing a WoW classic paladin again?

The difference is that in WoW classic, you got credit for kill assists.

The scepter is actually a decent weapon however the auto attacks needs rework! Range weapons are a must in WvW so if I wanted to wield a sword and a hammer together your pretty much going to be punished for it. Guardian is a class with little range and is definitely flawed on their part, either reduce range damage overall and increase melee dmg or rework the scepter…

Every 10 days, the same thread pops up.
But yeah, the Guardian has issues in WvWvW, almost all of them based on our ranged weaponry (or lack thereof) and the way supporting works in the game.

The reward system in WvW is terrible and needs to be reworked. That’s all.

I play my Guardian in WvW and I thinks it’s sweet. I use mace/shield and staff with a focus on vitality and toughness. I run into the massive groups, spam my staff skill, drop a wall of reflection and all the ranged people shooting at me end up hitting themselves. I rack up quite a few kills this way and at least tag most of the enemies with a hit or two. A dodge and a “retreat” or “save your selves” later and I’m back safe in my own crowd. The thing I do hate though is not being able to hit people on walls while sieging :/

Mace/Shield combo destroys in 1v1 =)

Ynna.8769:

Every 10 days, the same thread pops up.

This is because it’s still not fixed yet.

Svarty.8019:

Ynna.8769:

Every 10 days, the same thread pops up.

This is because it’s still not fixed yet.

I like the cut of your jib.

More or less, when something’s wrong, you have to say it’s wrong, until it’s put right. I trust ArenaNet to fix stuff like this, since they’ve been reliable in the past, but that’s no reason to stop reminding them that it needs to be done.

If the real issue is letting Arenanet know, just bump the same thread over and over again. I don’t see the point in creating new threads for it, since there’s never any new information in them, or new opinions.

We don’t even know if they think it’s an issue. Most signs point to: “Yes, Arenanet thinks it’s an issue,” but there’s no real way of knowing.

And, on a larger scale, it’s not a very easy thing to fix. They tried increasing the range and that didn’t work at all.

Things that need to be done:

1. Deciding what skills could be changed (For the record, my opinion on it is: #1 and #2 on Scepter and tweak some abilities of the Staff)
2. Coming up with new skills and implementing them (not that hard, give me 5 minutes and I’ll come up with 10 (viable) concepts and with the way skills work in the game, implementing new ones isn’t that hard. Animations are probably the bulk of the work.
3. Testing them out, together with every other skill we have and coming up with pretty much every strategy it could be used in (This might take a while)

I’m not saying it isn’t a problem, just that it isn’t as easy as lowering a duration on a skill.

Just make Orb of Wrath function like a Projectile you would see from a Bow with the same arc and speed, but without the finisher effect.

It would basically be like tossing the Orbs, rather than “casting” them.

It’s a little sad that guardians still put so much emphasis on damage, when all of their abilities and traits SCREAM support.

WvW is nothing like sPvP; a single staff guardian can easily turn an entire fight around with massive aoe heals (mostly from his virtue trait passives) and buffs. He can also use his staff to hit people through walls and gates at a much larger range than melee can. (which is a HUGE advantage) With a good group he can also flank the enemies sides, doing massive amounts of aoe with his primary attack and when/if the enemy team turns to fight him, he can pop a few cooldowns and hold them long enough to get away or allow teammates to make a big push.

There are plenty of other viable options out there. I think the issue is that people just aren’t reading through all their traits. GW2 isn’t like the older MMOs where there is 2 or 3 major cookie cutter builds. Put down the greatsword, open up the trait window, and start getting clever.

You are wrong to say that “Ranged” is a role. It is not a role it is a method of attacking. All professions except the Guardian have a viable ranged method to attack. Different classes are better suited for different roles or preform the role differently but they all have the option to take the role as needed.

The “roles” in this game are Tank, Support, Damage. Every profession can do those three roles. Mesmers and Thieves might use Stealth and evasion whereas Warrior, Guardians and even Elementalists can absorb more hits when preforming the Tank role but every class can still fill the role. Please remember support it not all about healing or boons it is also about conditions and control skills. So those of you thinking that Thieves cannot support are simply ignorant to what support really is.

Elementalist: Tank – Earth/Water, Support – Water/Arcane, Damage – Fire/Air

Warrior: Tank – Defense/Tactics, Support – Tactics/Defense, Damage – Strength/Arms/Discipline

Thief: Tank – Shadow Arms/Acrobatics, Support – Trickery/Shadow Arts, Damage – Deadly Arts/Critical Strikes

Necromancer: Tank – Death Magic/Blood Magic/Soul Reaping, Support – Blood Magic/Death Magic, Damage – Spite/Curses

Mesmer: Tank – Chaos/Dueling, Support – Inspiration/Illusions, Damage – Domination/Dueling

Ranger: Tank – Nature Magic/Wilderness Survival, Support – Nature Magic/Beastmastery, Damage – Marksmanship/Skirmishing

Engineer: Tank – Alchemy/Inventions, Support – Alchemy/Inventions/Tools, Damage – Explosives/Firearms

Guardian – Tank -Valor/Honor, Support – Honor/Vitality/Virtues, Damage- Zeal/Radiance/Virtues

Scepter is a decent enough ranged weapon. You CAN hit targets on walls, even behind walls. I think guardians have one of the fastest recharging targetted aoe skills which is smite on the scepter. I don’t think there’s a deficiency there.

Damage wise, guardians aren’t great at range, but are durable and very useful at range nonetheless. We have the gap closing judges meditation that teleports a whopping 1200m, where sword or greatsword can add another 600. With scepter, and a signet based build…with the KD signet and the immobilize one, that’s 2 immobilizes and 1 stun, totally awesome for landing a kill.

first time i played WvW as a guardian, i felt similar. playing again now after hitting 80, albeit having better gear, which does make a difference, i have also learned more of what all my traits mean, how they can synergize with my skills / weapons sets and i have to say, i am enjoying WvW a LOT.

i run with a hammer as well. traited 0/15/30/20/5 for now. 2nd set is scepter and focus/shield, depending. i agree that our ranged attacks might not be as strong, but maybe we don’t need it. i don’t expect myself to be able to hit really far targets like supposed other classes can. here is my general stragey, which will probs change while i keep playing more:

On walls defending:
- if enemies are close enough, i can scepter #3 and then drop a scepter #2 and then spam 1. you can see enemies freak and dodge out or run away
- elite skill: tome of wrath! is awesome on the wall. especially if they’re zerging right at the gate. just keep spamming 1 alone will scare ’em off. best if u can immobilize them first for a few sure seconds of dmg. you can also su pport your troops with the other ToW skills
- when enemies start to run, i jump down and can dish out dmg

On attacking towers, gates, etc:
- i do offer more support than anything but am still able to do decent dmg. again, scepter #2 can reach the wall and will do dmg to those standing on the edge. if not, i jus thammer away and provide protectiong to my folk right up in the frontlines and or chase away those who jump down and sneak attack

General:
- Get your siege weapon blueprints! if anything, as a Guardian you can provide so much support and help ensure siege weapons stay safe and are able to dish out massive dmg against your enemies
- having two immobolizes is awesome hammer #3 and scepter #3, especially against enemies fleeing, and or enemies who got caught or flanked by us
- WvW is a world of range weaponry you say? wall of reflection my friend. let ‘em know they don’t want to be messing with you

and this is just the start. hope you can find ways to enjoy the Guardian in WvW and all aspects of the game. gw2 isn’t WvW. gw2 isn’t PvE or just PvP. it’s a culmination of all and i love every bit of it, and definitely going to main the crap out of my Guardian.

I play melee guardian in wvwvw and i must have a kill death ratio of 30:1

My suggestion, and it’s one that I’ve been saying since BWE1, is that Anet simply needs to add another ranged weapon to the guardian’s arsenal. And my suggestions is a bow. Not a rifle or a pistol, but a bow. I mean hell, out of all our spirit weapons, we can actually wield all their “forms” except for the bow. It’s like Anet may have originally intended for us to have bow skills, but decided at the last minute to scrap it, and give us nothing for compensation.

Seriously, give us a freaking bow to use that focuses primarily on ranged dps (kinda like the greatsword focuses mainly on melee dps). It would solve SO MANY problems. Do it now Anet. Do it now.

@Zeph: RIFLES! And the Scepter seems to be construed as the ranged DPS weapon. Giving us really strong ranged DPS options would create some balance issues, since we have a good deal of ways of dealing with ranged. Wall of Reflection with any kind of Bow/Rifle would be pretty strong. What I’m trying to say is: it’s hard to implement.

If we got a new ranged weapon, it would probably be easier to balance to make it about support, with some damage elements in it.

I’m of the mind that bad ranged isn’t as big of an issue as lack of rewards for support. For example I was helping defend a garrison wall by using staff 4 to buff damage, and switching to shield to put up the bubble to defend the ranged who were being attacked by enemy ranged firing from the ground. My heals, shields and buffs saved quite a few of our guys from concentrated strikes. I felt useful. But I was discouraged that, despite all my hard work, I didn’t get a single loot bag at my feet.

I think the simplest way to fix it would be changing up the staff, and making the scepter’s projectiles move faster.

I find it strange that the staff’s primary attack is a weak fanning AoE when its one handed counter part, the scepter, is so single target.

Honestly I’d rather see the staff switch to more PBAoE support skills with enemy debilitating/burning side effects, and a single target channeled primary attack.

Been playing guardian since day one, and I feel like boosting guardians range attack would only make them more OP. I run a greatsword/condition build and have NO problem getting lots of kills in WvW. Jump into a crowd, throw down binding blade, pull everyone I can to me, drop down purging flames, throw in a whirling wrath if I have time. At that point I’m dishing out about 4k aoe burn damage, then what dps I lay down with my greatsword, this usually ends up in 2-3 kills if I get some follow up dps from nearby players. Guardian has crazy mobility between Judge’s Intervention, and Sword skill 2. I run sword/focus as alternate to my greatsword for mobility/survivability. As for wall sieging, I agree that we do lack in offense in this area, but I really don’t think guardian need to be made more OP so that they dominate in every aspect of the game. I personally am a Charr, so I can pull out my charrzooka and do some decent damage to players on walls =) Anyhow, just my 2 cents

So last night i decided to do some WvW. Like always those kitten french players dominated everywhere, we had one tower close to our spawn point in our border. We where 15-20 ppl that defended it against a stupid zerg that didnt know what siege weapon was.

We hold that tower for 30 min before they gave up, my job was to roll around on the wall healing ppl from the server and placeing symbol of swiftness and line of warding just to be anoying. Also had my elite for a few sec every 180s. But the problem with Guardian elite is that when you defend you cant stand on the wall on the same spot for a long time, then you get focused down.

So most of the time i spendt rolling to heal other ranged players in the ranged war. Real fun

Maybe you guys aren’t geared enough, or just wrong builds. When it comes to gate defense, I will jump off the wall, into the crowd, throw down my combo, and run back inside. It puts down a lot of dps on a lot of people.. You can even stand on the inside of a gate with staff and autoattack pretty solid aoe damage to gate attackers.

@Ayron: I haven’t tried that strategy out myself, but it seems way to risky in the most common WvWvW-situation.

I admit, there are times it fails, and I got stomped, but majority of the time, I am back in the tower gates before they realize I am there =)

I just recently started playing WvW. I’m specced in Vit/Tough and use the Hammer and Mace/Shield. This was entirely built with PvE experience, so I didn’t have much faith in its effectiveness. My utilities are Signet of Something(reduce incoming damage), Save Yourselves, Sanctuary, and Renewed Focus.

I’ve mostly just ran around with some friends taking supply camps and the occasional tower. I play perfectly fine there, easily doing what I like to do. Mitigating damage. Standing in the middle of the enemies while my friends wreck them. As far as 1v1 goes, as rare as it is, I haven’t lost yet. I win maybe 3/5 of 1v2 fights. I only feel the need for range when fighting thieves and mesmers. They can engage or disengage my current build at will, and I can’t do anything about it.

More recently though, I’ve participated in a couple sieges, and have found by build to be utterly useless, on both attacking and defending. When attacking, I use my supply, throw out what few buffs that I do, and wait. Same with when I’m defending. This was very discouraging, at first…

I’m still mostly doing dungeons, and in regards to PvE, I’m satisfied with my build mostly, so I wasn’t willing to change up my build too much. As I am now, I can run out the gate into a 30+ zerg and survive 15secs with relative ease. If I stay about two dodges from the gate portal, I have no problem getting back into the keep, mostly alive.

Using the staff AoE, and a couple AoE utilities, I’m able to tag plenty of players in the zerg, so getting loot isn’t all that big of a problem. Personally, I’m satisfied with this masochistic role, but I can definitely see this not being everyone’s cup of tea, and a little profession patching may be necessary. I’ll eventually rebuild my Guardian for WvW, and I have faith that it’ll be enjoyable.

I don’t mind supporting… just give me badges and loot for healing and buffing other players who kill people ~_~

Ayron.1850:

Maybe you guys aren’t geared enough, or just wrong builds. When it comes to gate defense, I will jump off the wall, into the crowd, throw down my combo, and run back inside. It puts down a lot of dps on a lot of people.. You can even stand on the inside of a gate with staff and autoattack pretty solid aoe damage to gate attackers.

Gear og builds realy dont mather when it comes down to 1vsZerg. So you jump down from the wall (maby take some fall dmg) and start your combo. So what is your combo? Greatsword 5-4-2-3? Your strategy rely on ONE thing. thats luck. Sure i have done this my self and sometimes i get back into the keep, but other times i die. If 3-10 ppl target you it realy dont mater what build or gear you have. If you can jump down into the zerg witout getting targeted time after time your the most lucky player i know of. It might work one time but most of the players dont just afk attack the door.

Just because a guardian doesn’t play the way you want it to does not mean it is broken.

• The greatsword can pull defenders from a wall.
• Guardians can use any and all siege equipment with the same proficiency as anyone else.
• Guardians can spot targets on indirect siege attacks as well as anyone—their defensive capabilities actually make them better choices than others.
• Guardians can attack through doors.
• 10 seconds of area projectile reflection is a non-trivial asset to your team.
• Tome of Wrath melts faces.
• When one ranged attacker tries to hurt another, they invariably expose themselves to the same harm. You can protect your allies and help them back on their feet. The utility of keeping teammates alive increases the farther you are from your respawn point(s).

In any WvW fight, a guardian can find a role, and fill it well. Perhaps some modification and added versatility is warranted, but overreacting and claiming that guardians are useless in WvW helps nobody.