Guild Wars 2

I’m really bored so I might aswell… what do you think what’s gonna be the new meta for guard in PvP and why?

That being said I think everybody who has been following the past meta and the recent news can agree on the utility bar of shelter, judges intervention, smite condi, contemplation and renewed focus still being the meta after the patch no matter what.

I also think virtues is basicly a must have for a PvP build since you get a ridicolous ammount of utility and some decent defense from it (aegis on cc, cleanse on f2, stunbreak on f3, stab on f3 and what people tend to forget about… retal).

So far I would go with Valor, Virtues, Dragonhunter, sword/focus and longbow. In dragonhunter I would pick the damage on f2 thingy for sure, not sure about the rest.

Inb4 hybrid guard
Inb4 silly gimmick builds

Try to surprise me or discuss the stuff I brought up. Just be constructive I guess

Ya, I’m pretty sure that Medi Guardian with Valor and Virtues will still be a thing. What will be the possibilities?

Valor/Virtues/Honor : This is mostly a more survivable version. We’ll see how stats will be distributed, but we may lose a couple of defensive stats since they will be transferred to our zerker amulet. This could be rebalanced with Honor and the big increase in endurance regen that this line will provide. I don’t think that Invigorated Bulwark + Mace will be a thing, but Writ of Persistence could be good for GS or Hammer.

Valor/Virtue/Radiance : That line is all about burning and critical chance. It also have a good looking burst option with Retribution + Unscathed Contender + Virtue of Retribution. That will give you a 30% damage modifier just by clicking F3 before a strike. With the amount and power of your burning with this line I wonder if a Celestial Guardian could be decent? Maybe, maybe not, we’ll see.

Valor/Virtue/Zeal : That’s all about the symbol here. That will be a very high risk, very high reward kind or build. GS #4 will put a symbol, add some burning and UC and you got almost a 60% damage modifier for your whirlwind. If you can hit, the guy will probably be dead, if you miss, you are kind of in trouble. Not enough burst outside of your symbol and not enough sustain to keep yourself alive. It might be popular in low level match, but against good pvp player, I don’t think it’s gonna work.

Valor/Virtues/Dragon Hunter : I’m not sure, but I guess Big Game Hunter will be a big part of it. A 15% damage modifier + vulnerability against a single target will be powerful if you can keep close to your target. Everybody will know which one is the guardian’s target at least lol.

Thaddeus.4891:

Ya, I’m pretty sure that Medi Guardian with Valor and Virtues will still be a thing. What will be the possibilities?

Valor/Virtue/Radiance : That line is all about burning and critical chance. It also have a good looking burst option with Retribution + Unscathed Contender + Virtue of Retribution. That will give you a 30% damage modifier just by clicking F3 before a strike. With the amount and power of your burning with this line I wonder if a Celestial Guardian could be decent? Maybe, maybe not, we’ll see.

Carrion will be far better with this, with the crit chance we recieve from radiance, we wont really need anything else from celestial

Honestly at the moment I am overwhelmed and I believe its too hard to tell.
I do not know if DH will make it into meta. Guard will become really strong with three full traitlines.

I agree with you that virtues will always part of the meta because of the group utility.
we can build a virtue bunker with alturistic healing or more damage which will be very strong. Depending on the strength of burn stacks (full condi porbably around 500 per stack and second) even permeating wrath(can you even block that? since it has no direct damage component) could become viable.

Still medis will provide even better sustain and condi cleanse. (We still have a speed problem though).

it might all go wrong and revanent takes up the guard slot for good. I think Valor/Virtues/Honor will have much to offer. Ageis centered shout build with sword/focus will mace/shield will be a great point defense even with zerker or celestial.

The new elite shout as well as the heal does have the potential to question RF, and shelter simply because they are shouts and can provide added support or offense

Defensive: Master Reviver:
Elite shout haste/fury
+ pure of voice
+ protective reviver
+ alturistic healing
+ pure of heart
+ communal defense

Ageis Heal builds will be a thing.

I can even see a split build between shouts and medis – taking the best from both worlds to create a mean hybrid (Swapping Virtues for DH).

All of this makes me really exited not only about DH but about the changes in general. It will mix up everything. Even Litaney of Wrath will be an outstanding heal if you trait it and toss in runes of the defender (prolly not pvp though).

im actually quite excited for guards in HoT. Ive been maining a warrior the last few months but HoT might make me go back to guard.

If they ever make Permeating Wrath proc around target then Supreme Justice/Permeating Wrath along with burning that stacks with intensity could literally bring the fires of hell to Tyria!

My guess is that people might take DH for the bow, but if you don’t plan on using the bow there’s really no point in it. I think Radiance/Valor/Virtues will probably end up being the go-to setup in that case.

Asmodal.6489:

Still medis will provide even better sustain and condi cleanse. (We still have a speed problem though).

With radiance/valor/virtues, with carrion, speed wont be an issue, because even if people start to make distance, your condi’s will still be ripping them appart.

Zeal/Valor/DH….mark me woooords

Bash.7291:

Carrion will be far better with this, with the crit chance we recieve from radiance, we wont really need anything else from celestial

I’m not so sure about that. Radiance + Celestial amulet won’t reach 100% critical chance so it won’t be wasted. At the same time you don’t want to put too much pts into condition since you will mostly be direct damage with only a bit of condition (you only have fire after all).

In the end, the reason to take celestial is to make a good build all around. A bit of power damage, a bit of condition damage and a bit of healing. If celestial don’t work with a Guardian, then there is just no reason to take carrion and we’ll stick to Berserker.

Arken.3725:

Zeal/Valor/DH….mark me woooords

Because we saw how well your lack of virtue stability and virtue Condi cleanse worker out.

Drennon.7190:

Arken.3725:

Zeal/Valor/DH….mark me woooords

Because we saw how well your lack of virtue stability and virtue Condi cleanse worker out.

Saw what?

Thaddeus.4891:

Bash.7291:

Carrion will be far better with this, with the crit chance we recieve from radiance, we wont really need anything else from celestial

I’m not so sure about that. Radiance + Celestial amulet won’t reach 100% critical chance so it won’t be wasted. At the same time you don’t want to put too much pts into condition since you will mostly be direct damage with only a bit of condition (you only have fire after all).

In the end, the reason to take celestial is to make a good build all around. A bit of power damage, a bit of condition damage and a bit of healing. If celestial don’t work with a Guardian, then there is just no reason to take carrion and we’ll stick to Berserker.

Celestial is only working in the current meta with classes that can consistently stack might. Guardian has some access to might, but it’s mostly very short in duration and the fact that celestial guard isn’t meta already shows that it really isn’t enough, and we aren’t really getting anything might-related that we didn’t already have.

Carrion, on the other hand, is perfect for a hybrid build that doesn’t require extra precision. Guardians don’t have any on-crit condition procs, and Radiance gives a nice boost to crit chance anyway, so the extra vitality is far more valuable than more precision. The lack of toughness can be partially made up for with Strength in Numbers becoming accessible to a meta meditation build, so the power and condition damage is really all that you need from your gear.

I’m not sure that hybrid guardian will be the meta build, necessarily, but it’d certainly be more effective with a carrion amulet as opposed to a celestial one.

Black Box.9312:

Celestial is only working in the current meta with classes that can consistently stack might. Guardian has some access to might, but it’s mostly very short in duration and the fact that celestial guard isn’t meta already shows that it really isn’t enough, and we aren’t really getting anything might-related that we didn’t already have.

Carrion, on the other hand, is perfect for a hybrid build that doesn’t require extra precision. Guardians don’t have any on-crit condition procs, and Radiance gives a nice boost to crit chance anyway, so the extra vitality is far more valuable than more precision. The lack of toughness can be partially made up for with Strength in Numbers becoming accessible to a meta meditation build, so the power and condition damage is really all that you need from your gear.

I’m not sure that hybrid guardian will be the meta build, necessarily, but it’d certainly be more effective with a carrion amulet as opposed to a celestial one.

Pretty much this, Cele builds work because of might stacking, because might makes up for the lacking offensive stats on the cele ammy. we dont really have that good of an option for might stacking (other than staff… but yeah…) so going for the actual damage stats is better. Also With the changes to burning, and allowing to stack, and the high access we have to burns, having high condition damage is going to be very good, as compared to just power. I mean, think of the burn on block trait with shelter, vs say rapid fire, or the Steal ability that thieves get from warriors, or any multi hit attack. It is going to absolutly DESTROY people if they dont cleanse it, adding even more condi damage to it is just going to make it, and our capabilities to deal with kiting targets so much easier

I’m going to fully embrace the DH trait line. I think alot of the game and its functions are going to take a crazy change come HoT. The current meta we have now may not even be recognizable after this. Personally, I’m seeing ANET finally take a step away from the jack of all trades cele BS that’s been dominating PvP.

That being said, I’ll be running a DH/Valor/Honor build and am going to replace one of my meditations with a trap and if changes are in line with what I have in mind, I’m fairly certain that this build will destroy (not a hybrid) with either GS or Hammer while paired with LB.

The DH traits and traps make sense after playing Stronghold. It’s as if they specifically designed those to play well in SH (maybe WvW map but yet to be determined).

DH will most likely be part of a high level build as it offers a lot – longbow, another immob with Wings of Resolve, and Big Game Hunter.

I don’t see it being pve meta as these are pretty pvp-centric traits but this can change.

I agree with others who are excited about the new changes in Hot and already have been putting a lot of thought into it even though we won’t know what our base traits will look like. Some insanely tough decisions to make…which i think is a good thing.

To me though a radiance/zeal stands at as the best combo so far.

Radiance with, with the 25% crit against burning enemies and 33% more burning damage / burn on block,
combined with zeal’s 10% damage against burning enemies, % dmg with greatsword and symbol damage

then here is the secret ingredient – with Runes of the flame legion – will make an AMAZING condi/power build.

The next biggest challenge for me will be what to choose for the third trait line (if i didnt go DH) and what utilities to go for.
The DH bow really speaks to me, because it will solve both our speed and kitten problems, as if the enemy decides to kite we can just switch to bow. For those that say it doesnt Senergy with anything else, that won’t be true if you go for the sigil that crips enemies and the trait on DH that does 10% damage on crippled enemies.

For utilities I’d go with purging flames it least Can’t figure out what the next best choice should be though…i’m thinking Save yourselves as it is an all-in-one.

For sustain i’d make sure i had around 3000 armor, around 18k health and mango pie and go for the new tomb signet that passively heals, which if it does anything over 100 tics a sec, that would give you 300 heals a sec – mango pie/resolve/elite signet.

debate about abandoning DH and just substituting a 3rd trait line

I keep thinking that maybe i should abandon the DH hype and instead make the third line traited in virtues or something. With 1h sword/focus (and those nice burning blocks) + supreme justice/permeating wrath..that would be so much fun. But then i remember guardian has a cc/kitten problem and it doesn’t matter how much damage you can do if you’re not able to hit them. + DH’s longbow 1# and 2# with true shot should mean you’ll able to hold your own just with bow.

Black Box.9312:

Celestial is only working in the current meta with classes that can consistently stack might.

Bash.7291:

Pretty much this, Cele builds work because of might stacking, because might makes up for the lacking offensive stats on the cele ammy.

That’s not true. Yes it was the case at first, but not anymore. With the nerf to might and sigil of battle, now only D/D Elementalist is still relying on big might stacking.

Most cele engie now don’t use sigil of battle + rune of hoelbrak even if that still a viable choice. Sigil of Intelligence, Leeching or Doom are more popular or as popular choice now. With runes of Leeching, Scavenging or of the Pack. If what you both say is true, then Cele engie couldn’t be good wihtout sigil of battle + hoelbrak (or Strength) because that’s his only way to stack a good amount of might. Most cele engie right now, stack almost no might and are still at the top of the food chain.

Warrior is between Engie and Ele there. He still use some might stacking, but he’s not as dependent as Ele on that. In theory, he can stack 13 might, but that never happen. He usually keep it between 6 and 10.

Might stacking isn’t THE reason that make celestial so good. Otherwise why only 1 of the 3 celestial professions can stack a high amount of might, while one can only stack 6-10 might and the 3rd don’t stack might at all.

Celestial work with profession that have a bit of everything. Some healing, some condition and some direct damage, which all profit from celestial stats. I wasn’t saying that guardian will be celestial. I’m only saying that hey a medi guardian with an emphasis on burning could be potentially a good candidate from celestial and that it’s worth testing. Mesmer was also a good candidate on paper, but nobody was able to come up with a build that worked well enough. Maybe that’s what will happen with guardian, I don’t know.

Episcopos.5206:

For those that say it doesnt Senergy with anything else, that won’t be true if you go for the sigil that crips enemies and the trait on DH that does 10% damage on crippled enemies.

For one thing, that’s a sigil, and not a part of the base class. Second, that sigil has (at best) a 40% uptime in increments of 2 seconds. As much as I’d love for it to work, I don’t see it being a very reliable way to make use of that damage boost. And since the base class has zero access to cripple outside of our underwater downed state autoattack… Yeah, I’d say that that’s kind of a lack of synergy issue.

Black Box.9312:

For one thing, that’s a sigil, and not a part of the base class. Second, that sigil has (at best) a 40% uptime in increments of 2 seconds. As much as I’d love for it to work, I don’t see it being a very reliable way to make use of that damage boost. And since the base class has zero access to cripple outside of our underwater downed state autoattack… Yeah, I’d say that that’s kind of a lack of synergy issue.

Well with the bow you’ll likely be also getting cripples from your auto attack vsing groups since it cripples if there are guys behind the target your arrow hits and you’ll get a cripple on the knock-back if you have it traited either from bow or hammer. but i wouldn’t just be looking at it for the 40% uptime to inflict %10 more damage but also the fact it will keep your enemies in your GS whirling/symbol wraths for longer, as well as a lot of our other weapon attacks which damage depends on keeping our enemies in a close range for as long as possible.

(not related with the cripple conversation but) Let’s also look at how if we’re traited into radiance with Wrath of justice which activates the imobil from signet of wrath every time we activate our virtue (spear) of justice. If you go into DH, it seems like the cooldown from virtue of justice drops from 30 secs to 16 secs when it becomes spear of justice. that means we’ll be activating a signet of wrath every 16 seconds, which will also go great with Big game hunter which inflicts vulnerability everytime we activate justice as well – made to maximum opportunity to delivery some good hits since we’ll get the imbol from signet of wrath.

The idea though is that we shouldn’t have to take the bow in order to make use of the new spec. Things like +10% damage from > 600 range and extra cripple damage and cripple on knockback are all things that clearly were not implemented with the base class in mind, because without DH and the bow we have very little access to knockback, one weapon with > 600 range (that arguably doesn’t even work from that kind of distance) and literally ZERO access to cripple. I’d rather just take Zeal instead and have a more reliable +10% damage to burning targets (since we actually have a lot of that condition), and use that cripple sigil to keep the enemy in my symbol for an extra +20% damage.

As for the immob on VoJ, the trait has an ICD of 30 seconds (24 if traited for signets, probably). So the cooldown of your F1 really doesn’t make a difference, sadly.

Black Box.9312:

As for the immob on VoJ, the trait has an ICD of 30 seconds (24 if traited for signets, probably). So the cooldown of your F1 really doesn’t make a difference, sadly.

darn it! did not notice that – what a shame! I guess i’m gonna have one shot to make that burst work out haha ( will be interesting to see if you have signet of wrath equipped as a utility it will also enter into a CD when that effect is activated to prevent you following up with two imbol in a row) Taking notice of that, if you also went with wings of devastation in place of cripple bonus, you could have like 9 secs of imbol’s going on…

I think i’ll still go with cripple sigils given the guardian’s problem is sticking with the target rather than reaching it… though wings of justice is looking a lot more appealing now.will have to give it some more thought….

that is unfortunate, however the 10 sec uptime from spear of justice will really make use of any bonus’s from hitting burning opponents from zeal and radiance and its CD is still awesome ( at 900 range too) even if there are some other avenues to inflict burning from.

given that you’ll be doing 25% more damage with Big game Hunter with the Spear (this doesn’t have a let-down CD too does it?) followed with all your bonus’s when you burn and lets say you have GS with 5% damage traited, for around 10 seconds you’ll be doing 40% more damage on 25% more crit chance – and you’ll only have to wait 16 seconds (or 6 seconds if you stay connected through the whole of the spear’s duration) to do it over again. that alone is pretty awesome with any close range weapon you switch to.

Edit Looking at hammer again there is a neat trick you could do when using it with the DH. Just before you swap from the H to the Bow, activate ring of warding and either stay inside it, or have your enemy in it, then switch to bow and you can get around seconds of shots off from a safe distance.

( Excluding trait Synergy) Honestly aside from GS there is a lot to despise about nearly all our other weapons and sometimes i’ve been tempted to just run two GS and swapping them for various sigil bonus’s lol. I think the other recent thread called ‘do you love/hate your weapon sets’ showed this, but nearly every weapon apart from the GS kept coming up. Even if the bow doesnt have a good match up with other weapons, i’ll be happy if it lands close to keeping up with the GS in usefulness. edit Okay Focus is good, but there generally is always issues with the weapon you put alongside it. And what saves hammer is it’s #2 mighty blow – yet i always feel like the next 9 sec’s feels a bit wasted as i’m just waiting to do it one more time before i weapon swap straight away again.

I’ve also heard that they might change Hunter’s fortification into something more appealing when they were showcasing the traits on the DH video, will have to wait and see.

Black Box.9312:

The idea though is that we shouldn’t have to take the bow in order to make use of the new spec.

Is that really the idea? You already don’t have to take bow to make use of the new spec. The question is if the new spec can be optimal for anything BUT the LB and even then, I don’t believe we have been told anything to make us think it should be.

People need to stop projecting what they THINK things should be like and look at what they really will be.

Obtena.7952:

Black Box.9312:

The idea though is that we shouldn’t have to take the bow in order to make use of the new spec.

Is that really the idea? You already don’t have to take bow to make use of the new spec. The question is if the new spec can be optimal for anything BUT the LB and even then, I don’t believe we have been told anything to make us think it should be.

People need to stop projecting what they THINK things should be like and look at what they really will be.

I can easily see the Chronomancer or the Reaper being incorporated into current Mesmer and Necro builds, even without the shield and GS. I can’t see a single reason (outside of maybe PvE hero damage modifiers) to take DH if you don’t plan on using the bow. It’s pretty sad that, being a Guardian main who has hardly touched Necro, I can still come up with more effective build possibilities for the Reaper than I can for the DH.

How on earth can a GSless reaper be more optimal than a LBless DH? Complaining that DH doesn’t cater to non-LB users is as stupid as complaining that zeal doesn’t cater to symbol-less players, or valor not catering to meditation-less or boon-less players. Every tree has its “idea” or “feel”. You want to go against the design, then by all means go ahead, but don’t complain that ANET isn’t catering to your style of play. Its like complaining that the current condi-guard isn’t really super viable, even though its obvious that ANET never intended for the players to try rolling the class and use condis.

SlayerSixx.5763:

How on earth can a GSless reaper be more optimal than a LBless DH? Complaining that DH doesn’t cater to non-LB users is as stupid as complaining that zeal doesn’t cater to symbol-less players, or valor not catering to meditation-less or boon-less players. Every tree has its “idea” or “feel”. You want to go against the design, then by all means go ahead, but don’t complain that ANET isn’t catering to your style of play. Its like complaining that the current condi-guard isn’t really super viable, even though its obvious that ANET never intended for the players to try rolling the class and use condis.

To be fair, the zeal line has a scepter trait, which has no symbol attached, and cant as no OH weapons have a symbol either…. along with a focus trait currently, though with a focus you could at least run mace MH to make sense… but yeah, scepter in zeal does make no sense at all…

Black Box.9312:

Obtena.7952:

Black Box.9312:

The idea though is that we shouldn’t have to take the bow in order to make use of the new spec.

Is that really the idea? You already don’t have to take bow to make use of the new spec. The question is if the new spec can be optimal for anything BUT the LB and even then, I don’t believe we have been told anything to make us think it should be.

People need to stop projecting what they THINK things should be like and look at what they really will be.

I can easily see the Chronomancer or the Reaper being incorporated into current Mesmer and Necro builds, even without the shield and GS. I can’t see a single reason (outside of maybe PvE hero damage modifiers) to take DH if you don’t plan on using the bow. It’s pretty sad that, being a Guardian main who has hardly touched Necro, I can still come up with more effective build possibilities for the Reaper than I can for the DH.

How other classes work isn’t a very compelling argument to how you think Guard Elite should work. Again, you don’t know if Anet’s ntention was to provide non-LB builds with tools using DH and if it was, if those non-LB builds would be optimal. I’m willing to bet that Anet didn’t intend it all because our current builds are quite effective. It stands to reason that there is no need to provide a whole bunch of awesome, non-LB stuff in the DH spec because of that.

As far as I’m concerned, the new meta depends on much more than just one profession’s new toolset. Guards didn’t have many options; we have a few themes with variations. The DH line just adds another theme. The argument if it’s optimal or if it works well with other weapons seems really irrelevant; anyone wanting to play the new theme is obviously going to gravitate towards the LB and the DH line. There are going to be places where this approach will be good and others where it’s not.

Obtena.7952:

Black Box.9312:

Obtena.7952:

Black Box.9312:

The idea though is that we shouldn’t have to take the bow in order to make use of the new spec.

Is that really the idea? You already don’t have to take bow to make use of the new spec. The question is if the new spec can be optimal for anything BUT the LB and even then, I don’t believe we have been told anything to make us think it should be.

People need to stop projecting what they THINK things should be like and look at what they really will be.

I can easily see the Chronomancer or the Reaper being incorporated into current Mesmer and Necro builds, even without the shield and GS. I can’t see a single reason (outside of maybe PvE hero damage modifiers) to take DH if you don’t plan on using the bow. It’s pretty sad that, being a Guardian main who has hardly touched Necro, I can still come up with more effective build possibilities for the Reaper than I can for the DH.

How other classes work isn’t a very compelling argument to how you think Guard Elite should work. Again, you don’t know if Anet’s ntention was to provide non-LB builds with tools using DH and if it was, if those non-LB builds would be optimal. I’m willing to bet that Anet didn’t intend it all because our current builds are quite effective. It stands to reason that there is no need to provide a whole bunch of awesome, non-LB stuff in the DH spec because of that.

As far as I’m concerned, the new meta depends on much more than just one profession’s new toolset. Guards didn’t have many options; we have a few themes with variations. The DH line just adds another theme. The argument if it’s optimal or if it works well with other weapons seems really irrelevant; anyone wanting to play the new theme is obviously going to gravitate towards the LB and the DH line. There are going to be places where this approach will be good and others where it’s not.

What you don’t seem to understand, and haven’t been able to grasp at all apparently, is that I don’t give two kittens what Anet’s intention was. It’s irrelevant. They can have the surest intentions in the world and have more conviction than anyone, but if their decision is a bad one I’m going to call them out for it. The entire idea behind criticism is that it’s provided by a different perspective that isn’t biased by the efforts and motivations behind the object being criticized. A widow can paint her masterpiece using the inspiration of her husband’s death, but if it’s a kittenty painting it’s a kittenty painting, no matter how deep the intentions behind it are.

You think Anet’s intention for the design and purpose of the elite spec is irrelevant. That’s an interesting perspective … I would say it’s the only relevant intention seeing as they are the ones that make the game and all that.

I get you don’t like it, but that doesn’t make what Anet wants the class to be irrelevant. It’s going to be whatever they want it to be and that is as relevant as something can get. You can be critical and offer your ideas of what you think is wrong without degrading your own statements with ridiculous comments that Anet’s intentions are not relevant to the game. Of course they are.

Obtena.7952:

You think Anet’s intention for the design and purpose of the elite spec is irrelevant. That’s an interesting perspective … I would say it’s the only relevant intention seeing as they are the ones that make the game and all that.

I get you don’t like it, but that doesn’t make what Anet wants the class to be irrelevant. It’s going to be whatever they want it to be and that is as relevant as something can get. You can be critical and offer your ideas of what you think is wrong without degrading your own statements with ridiculous comments that Anet’s intentions are not relevant to the game. Of course they are.

Please stop being so dense and actually read through an entire post, for a change. Intentions are irrelevant to criticism. That’s all I said, and that’s all that needs to be said about the matter. They can do whatever the kitten they want with their game, but if players think that they’re making stupid decisions, then they have every right to say so. I don’t care what their reasoning is, and I don’t care what your reasoning is.

All I’ve ever seen you do is talk down on people that provide less than optimal feedback. I’m really sick of your condescension, and would really appreciate it if you’d just shut up.

Raw Damage
Virtues/Valor/DH – Meditations Hammer/Bow
Valor/Virtues/Honor – Zerk & Soldier runes. (switch CoP out for “Retreat”)

Condi Damage
DH/Radiance/Virtues – Bow/Sc – If Permeating Wrath changes to “on target”.
Radiance/Virtues/Valor – Sce/Foc + sw/tor. Just Smite and sword#3 will offer 7+ burn stacks.

Yo, Black Box. We get it. You know more than everyone. You yourself are untouchable when it comes to criticism, and so we must all step away and let you rain down your facts upon our minds. Woe be unto Anet for seeing the whole picture, and knowing the math, and being in charge of making design decisions for they are all worthless beneath your gaze. Let not the wretched doves of forum goers say nay against thy doings, for what is a counter-opinion, but dross against thy winds.

But I digress #hotopinions #HoTopinions

Saiyan.1704:

Raw Damage
Virtues/Valor/DH – Meditations Hammer/Bow
Valor/Virtues/Honor – Zerk & Soldier runes. (switch CoP out for “Retreat”)

Condi Damage
DH/Radiance/Virtues – Bow/Sc – If Permeating Wrath changes to “on target”.
Radiance/Virtues/Valor – Sce/Foc + sw/tor. Just Smite and sword#3 will offer 7+ burn stacks.

Doesn’t DH replace the virtues line? If it doesn’t then hooooooooooooooooooooooly kitten, stuffs about to get real.

The elite specializations don’t replace anything. They just take up one of the three specializations you have access too.

Well then. That changes everything in my books then. ANET said there are another two specializations incoming in the future? Augh, I’ve missed so much.

Black Box.9312:

They can do whatever the kitten they want with their game, but if players think that they’re making stupid decisions, then they have every right to say so. I don’t care what their reasoning is, and I don’t care what your reasoning is.

You feel Anet’s decisions are stupid. That’s an immediate non-starter for any discussion because that’s ignoring the fact that it’s going to be part of the game. No one is discouraging you or anyone else from voicing your opinion but don’t get all bent out of shape if other people accuse you of exactly the thing you’re doing to Anet … making nonsense comments, decisions and assessments. If anyone has nothing to add to a discussion, it’s the guy that thinks what Anet does is completely wrong.

Obtena.7952:

If anyone has nothing to add to a discussion, it’s the guy that thinks what Anet does is completely wrong.

This has to be the single most ridiculous statement in the entire thread… so someone w/ a different opinion about what’s occurring (in any situation – right or wrong), has nothing to add to said discussion….

wow.

You’ve outdone yourself this time.

Amins.3710:

Obtena.7952:

If anyone has nothing to add to a discussion, it’s the guy that thinks what Anet does is completely wrong.

This has to be the single most ridiculous statement in the entire thread… so someone w/ a different opinion about what’s occurring (in any situation – right or wrong), has nothing to add to said discussion….

wow.

You’ve outdone yourself this time.

That statement being ridiculous has more to do with your comprehension than anything else. I said nothing about someone having a different opinion not adding to a discussion.

Black Box.9312:

The idea though is that we shouldn’t have to take the bow in order to make use of the new spec.

The question is, why would anyone go DH if they were pure 1-hander or Hammer+GS users?

• Absolute Resolution is almost a must, especially now that Burns and Poisons are stackable.
• Valor’s Meditations is too awesome to pass up if you’re always in melee range.

F2 and F3 are very strong abilities for the Guardian so I see people wanting DH for the Virtue changes alone. People who use Scepter are already going to want the Bow as a more viable (and reliable) range option. It’s a win-win for many.

Zeal mainly has damage modifiers. They’re nice but to be honest, I rather have (very much underated) F2 peels and the extra sustain F3 offers. What bother’s me is that DH’s Pure of Light trait singles out many builds. Unless, this effects items like Spirit weapons, Fire/Air sigils, etc, then will it be useful for other build variants.

DH doesn’t require the Bow for the spec to be useful but we’re all entitled to our opinions. Nothing is fact until Meta builds are Meta. Right?

Obtena.7952:

Amins.3710:

Obtena.7952:

If anyone has nothing to add to a discussion, it’s the guy that thinks what Anet does is completely wrong.

This has to be the single most ridiculous statement in the entire thread… so someone w/ a different opinion about what’s occurring (in any situation – right or wrong), has nothing to add to said discussion….

wow.

You’ve outdone yourself this time.

That statement being ridiculous has more to do with your comprehension than anything else. I said nothing about someone having a different opinion not adding to a discussion.

While you’re pointing out the strawman, how about you stop making one yourself please? Thanks.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Well then. That changes everything in my books then. ANET said there are another two specializations incoming in the future? Augh, I’ve missed so much.

Just to cover our bases, every trait line is now considered a specialization. We get to pick 3 specializations, or 3 trait lines. Dragon Hunter is an elite specialization. There is only one slot to put elite specializations, which is the same slot as the third regular specialization we get access to. So to directly answer your first question, yes, you can combine Dragon Hunter and Virtues, and you still have one regular specialization to choose (zeal, radiance, honor, valor).

Once we get a second elite specialization, I expect it will be mutually exclusive to dragon hunter, but not any of the other regular specializations.

Black Box.9312:

Intentions are irrelevant to criticism.

I am not sure that New Criticism applies here fully since DH is an addition to an exisiting system and not a creation of its own. As in many posts before I do understand where you coming from and that you are unshakable in your opnion.

BUT your opinion derives from your argument that guardians can not make any “reliable” use from

1) cripple damage modifiers outside of LB … and
2) knock backs
3) Defenders Dogma (useless in your eyes)
4) the (indeed questionable) minor trait pure of sight
5) traps
6) all other traits are stupid

I stil think you are too hung up on 4+5 to see the potential od DH and come on too strong to anyone suggesting otherwise.

Does DH add to other exisiting builds better then the exisiting traitlines?
I dont think so either. Simply because of the strength of Valor and Virtues

Does it create new ones even without LB?
Definitely Yes

Are they viable?
too soon to tell

Asmodal.6489:

Black Box.9312:

Intentions are irrelevant to criticism.

I am not sure that New Criticism applies here fully since DH is an addition to an exisiting system and not a creation of its own. As in many posts before I do understand where you coming from and that you are unshakable in your opnion.

BUT your opinion derives from your argument that guardians can not make any “reliable” use from

1) cripple damage modifiers outside of LB … and
2) knock backs
3) Defenders Dogma (useless in your eyes)
4) the (indeed questionable) minor trait pure of sight
5) traps
6) all other traits are stupid

I stil think you are too hung up on 4+5 to see the potential od DH and come on too strong to anyone suggesting otherwise.

Does DH add to other exisiting builds better then the exisiting traitlines?
I dont think so either. Simply because of the strength of Valor and Virtues

Does it create new ones even without LB?
Definitely Yes

Are they viable?
too soon to tell

First of all, thank you for taking the time to address my actual argument. I’m rather tired of having to repeat myself. :/

But anyway, perhaps I am coming on a bit strongly, but in my defense, I was basically hinging my decision to keep Guardian as my main on how the new spec would turn out, and this is pretty far from what I was hoping for. Since I’ve been pretty consistently disappointed with the directions they’re taking the class, I figure I’ll give the Revenant a try. It looks a bit more up my alley.

It looks like to me that it was designed with the mindset that someone would want to just camp the longbow and maintain distance, despite the fact that there’s nothing about the guardian in its current iteration that works in this fashion. The introduction of another ranged weapon doesn’t change the fact that it’s still a primarily melee-oriented class, and swapping to your melee weapon is going to render half of the DH’s benefits useless. The traits feel almost exclusively centered around the new stuff. Why didn’t they give us anything that boosts the potential of any of our existing setups?

Obtena.7952:

Amins.3710:

Obtena.7952:

If anyone has nothing to add to a discussion, it’s the guy that thinks what Anet does is completely wrong.

This has to be the single most ridiculous statement in the entire thread… so someone w/ a different opinion about what’s occurring (in any situation – right or wrong), has nothing to add to said discussion….

wow.

You’ve outdone yourself this time.

That statement being ridiculous has more to do with your comprehension than anything else. I said nothing about someone having a different opinion not adding to a discussion.

You get a big /facepalm for that comment Obtena.

So a guy who thinks that what Anet does is completely wrong isn’t an opinion?

He’s said he thinks what they’re doing “is wrong” (opinion) and he’s also present issues as to why he thinks it’s wrong…. so clearly he’s not adding to any type of discussion.

Your passive aggressive insults are amusing, at best.

/golfclap

Black Box.9312:

Asmodal.6489:

Black Box.9312:

Intentions are irrelevant to criticism.

I am not sure that New Criticism applies here fully since DH is an addition to an exisiting system and not a creation of its own. As in many posts before I do understand where you coming from and that you are unshakable in your opnion.

BUT your opinion derives from your argument that guardians can not make any “reliable” use from

1) cripple damage modifiers outside of LB … and
2) knock backs
3) Defenders Dogma (useless in your eyes)
4) the (indeed questionable) minor trait pure of sight
5) traps
6) all other traits are stupid

I stil think you are too hung up on 4+5 to see the potential od DH and come on too strong to anyone suggesting otherwise.

Does DH add to other exisiting builds better then the exisiting traitlines?
I dont think so either. Simply because of the strength of Valor and Virtues

Does it create new ones even without LB?
Definitely Yes

Are they viable?
too soon to tell

First of all, thank you for taking the time to address my actual argument. I’m rather tired of having to repeat myself. :/

But anyway, perhaps I am coming on a bit strongly, but in my defense, I was basically hinging my decision to keep Guardian as my main on how the new spec would turn out, and this is pretty far from what I was hoping for. Since I’ve been pretty consistently disappointed with the directions they’re taking the class, I figure I’ll give the Revenant a try. It looks a bit more up my alley.

It looks like to me that it was designed with the mindset that someone would want to just camp the longbow and maintain distance, despite the fact that there’s nothing about the guardian in its current iteration that works in this fashion. The introduction of another ranged weapon doesn’t change the fact that it’s still a primarily melee-oriented class, and swapping to your melee weapon is going to render half of the DH’s benefits useless. The traits feel almost exclusively centered around the new stuff. Why didn’t they give us anything that boosts the potential of any of our existing setups?

Probably because we have a number of existing setups that are already quite good. There is lalso little in the other 5 lines to enhance the use of the LB and if you want to use LB, you have to take DH. From those points, I think how the DH spec is designed is quite reasonable. Perhaps Anet may consider swapping something like Pure of Light for something in a different line to advantage other weapons in DH but I’m not sure that’s inline with their intention.

You lose some effectiveness moving away from LB if you spec DH in the same way if you currently spec into Radiance for 1H stuffs and swap to a GS. It’s about having reasonable tradeoffs. I don’t see anything in DH that’s unreasonable in terms of giving up something for having a strong something else.