Guild Wars 2

To start off, I’d like to give some background experience. I’m a multiglad in WoW and almost achieved the status of R1, I’ve played SWTOR and WoW competitively and achieved respectable ratings. I am a seasoned PvPer who likes to be in the heat of battle, always useful to his team mates.

I do like to land kills here and there, and I like a lot of support. However, I’ve noticed WvW is very biased towards ranged and you’ll get blown up if you get too close to anything.

-My question:
Do you personally feel like you play a valuable role in an open battle/Siege Attack/Defense in WvW without using Siege Weapons. In other words, do you feel like you’re doing anything? I don’t mean throwing down a shield and healing people or reflecting stuff. Do you feel like you’re a vital part of the front line that doesn’t get blown up?

Personally, I’m only level 26 on my Guardian but I’ve always played support classes, especially in WoW I was a Paladin. So Guardian was my natural choice. I want to land kills, but I feel that can be difficult. Please share your stories, they’re very important.

If not, I’m probably just level up my level 20 Elementalist.

Role Number 1: defend (staff, specter, WoR etc.)
Role Number 2: Hold the line or Push , Guardian is the only class who has many area denial skills.
Role number 3: support , sry I am kidding, there is no number 3

CRrabbit.1284:

Role Number 2: Hold the line or Push , Guardian is the only class who has many area denial skills.

You need to play more professions, badly.

But do you feel like you are useful? I often feel that sometimes I’m sitting there watching everyone take down the people on the wall while I sit there helpless.

We are used for healing and meatshield (pushing the front line), if you don’t like that, then I suggest Warrior which is better in every aspect.

Staffx1, hammerx1, shieldx1, sancx1
Which class else has more area denial skills ??

Alarox.4590:

CRrabbit.1284:

Role Number 2: Hold the line or Push , Guardian is the only class who has many area denial skills.

You need to play more professions, badly.

Camman.2984:

But do you feel like you are useful? I often feel that sometimes I’m sitting there watching everyone take down the people on the wall while I sit there helpless.

The only way you’ll really be useful is if:

1.) You want to be support/tank in large scale fighting.

2.) You want to use a small group, 1v1 style oriented build and fight over things like supply camps.

Edit: You actually can still go for a melee high-offensive playstyle, but without a tanky build you’ll die faster than a Warrior in the front lines, and even full glass-cannon you’ll deal less damage than a Warrior, and you won’t have many options in ranged fights.

CRrabbit.1284:

Staffx1, hammerx1, shieldx1, sancx1
Which class else has more area denial skills ??

Alarox.4590:

CRrabbit.1284:

Role Number 2: Hold the line or Push , Guardian is the only class who has many area denial skills.

You need to play more professions, badly.

Elementalist, Necromancer, and even Engineers.

Basically just prepare for large scale fight.
1v1 roaming is not strong point for guardian. Maybe in lower tier there might be 1v1 chance, but in higher tier, you must have 1v N + super escape ability to be a roamer coz more ppl will come in any minute.

Alarox.4590:

Camman.2984:

But do you feel like you are useful? I often feel that sometimes I’m sitting there watching everyone take down the people on the wall while I sit there helpless.

The only way you’ll really be useful is if:

1.) You want to be support/tank in large scale fighting.

2.) You want to use a small group, 1v1 style oriented build and fight over things like supply camps.

CRrabbit.1284:

Basically just prepare for large scale fight.
1v1 roaming is not strong point for guardian. Maybe in lower tier there might be 1v1 chance, but in higher tier, you must have 1v N + super escape ability to be a roamer coz more ppl will come in any minute.

I’m on SoS (have been for a long time) and I do WvW almost exclusively. Solo doesn’t work well at all, but in small groups a Guardian can do well enough with a duelist style build.

I play ele too, only skill close to area denial is static field, what else ?

Alarox.4590:

CRrabbit.1284:

Staffx1, hammerx1, shieldx1, sancx1
Which class else has more area denial skills ??

Alarox.4590:

CRrabbit.1284:

Role Number 2: Hold the line or Push , Guardian is the only class who has many area denial skills.

You need to play more professions, badly.

Elementalist, Necromancer, and even Engineers.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unsteady_Ground
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frozen_Ground
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elemental_Surge + arcana skills
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frost_Fan
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Static_Field_%28Lightning_Hammer_skill%29
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ice_Storm from the bow or from the skill: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glyph_of_Storms
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tornado

In addition, Elementalists with a Staff can stack so many AoEs that you might as well have just created a wall, because enemies will choose to not run through (and they’re right to not run through in most cases).

There’s also more (mostly melee) CC in the 1hs:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frozen_Burst
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frost_Aura
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Updraft
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shocking_Aura
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Earthquake
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Churning_Earth

Of course, the auras are more for the tank builds, which end up being good CC if you’re tanky enough to take multiple hits (which a good amount of D/D ele builds tend to be).

Man, those are just CC, but not area DENIAL.

Alarox.4590:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unsteady_Ground
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frozen_Ground
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elemental_Surge + arcana skills
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frost_Fan
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Static_Field_%28Lightning_Hammer_skill%29
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ice_Storm from the bow or from the skill: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glyph_of_Storms
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tornado

In addition, Elementalists with a Staff can stack so many AoEs that you might as well have just created a wall, because enemies will choose to not run through (and they’re right to not run through in most cases).

There’s also more (mostly melee) CC in the 1hs:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frozen_Burst
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frost_Aura
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Updraft
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shocking_Aura
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Earthquake
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Churning_Earth

Of course, the auras are more for the tank builds, which end up being good CC if you’re tanky enough to take multiple hits (which a good amount of D/D ele builds tend to be).

CRrabbit.1284:

Man, those are just CC, but not area DENIAL.

Semanitcs. What’s the goal of area denial? To keep enemies controlled. What’s the goal of CC? To keep enemies controlled. What is area denial? Control.

In what case can you not use CC when you could use “area denial”, and vice versa? And how does stacking AoEs and making enemies have to choose between death or staying put NOT count as “area denial”. How does placing chill and cripple when enemies are charging NOT count as “area denial” when you prevent them from getting closer?

To me, it seems you’re trying to make the case that preventing enemies from getting from A to B by putting a wall for 5s is on a whole new level than preventing enemies from getting from A to B by putting CC at their feet before they can get close to you, even though they accomplish the same exact thing.

Who is the best at placing wards? Guardians. Do you define area denial as wards? If so, then obviously Guardians are the best at area denial. It’s kind of like trying to emphasize the fact that Thieves are the best at stealing. Well yeah, they’re the only ones that can. But I could also just gap close and hit them like steal does, it’s just a specific name for the same concept.

Hi Camman.2984, welcome to GW2.

The guardian excels at large-scale battles, which are plentiful in WvW and also very important for helping your team capture major objectives like towers and keeps. Guardian shines as a front-line/mid range fighter that takes and deals a beating. When I play my guardian I feel that I’m among the most valuable fighters on the field in the fights that matter most. Guardians can be very valuable in smaller group fights as well, due to great group buffs, decent group healing options and condition cleansing.

Now the bad part. Guardians have poor mobility compared to most classes, which makes them poor at roaming solo. You also rely on having party members around to maximize the effectiveness of certain abilities. Guardians are considered to have among the worst ranged weapon options in the game. When it comes to wall sieges, scepter is pretty much our only decent option and its not that good.

Heh, funny thing, I think I’ve been there already… (I play both a Guardian and Elementalist in WvW).

I played Guardian at first, but I felt the profession lacking for WvW. I use a Greatsword and Staff mostly, and even though I’ve tried the Scepter I still felt it lacking.
When I can get up close the enemy, I think Guardian’s are awesome and borderline OP, but these situations aren’t always there. I got killed nearly instantly by large groups, or even small but coordinated groups (like a glass cannon Thief that would just take 50% of my health of with his burst while someone else locked me in place).
This was frustrating.

Attacking guarded locations felt really… weird, because I wasn’t feeling necessary at all. I just stood there and watched while healing and ressing the careless ones.
Defending is almost the same, although it is sorta fun to jump down the gates and try to fish someone, it’s a high risk low reward scenario most of the times.

After playing extensively and feeling… “weak” at what I happened to play most in WvW – attacking and defending guarded locations – I decided to start my Elementalist.

After getting fully geared to make it comparable to my Guardian, I choose to play a sorta glass cannon, but with tons of health. At first I was simply amazed by the numbers and damage. I felt that I, alone, could help turn the tide of a location being taken or not.
My AoEs were so heavy people would just run away, since I’m guarded by walls, and brave ones who tried to tank it while manning the Rams would just give me badges.
I helped the same part on massive road battles, and I also felt I alone could make the enemies push back – just by popping some defensive stuff before, going a bit ahead and dropping a couple AoEs right in the middle of them.

However, the few times I got caught on a road alone were frustrating.
The most frustrating of these times were being down’ed by a single thief in what appeared to be a single strike, which I learned after that are actually 2~4 in a split second. Still frustrating.

So I’d play my Guardian sometimes, just to tank these thieves and make them frustrated instead, and when I’m frustrated fighting against a large group or when it’s too much defense/attacking locations, I’d play my Elementalist.

This was about… 2 or 3 months ago though, and of course I was happy seeing 4k crits from a Lava Font but they were probably on underleveled and undergeared players.

A few notes though:
- My elementalist having 1800ish armor can’t even stand in arrow cart rains – I’d die in less than 10 seconds. My Guardian can probably stay under one forever, with just my passive healing.
- Battles with few people (between 2~10) I thought equally of both classes, they perform basically the same.
- I can’t escape any coordinated group with my Guardian, and I die against these because of their lockup rotation. With my Elementalist against these same, I can escape most of the time.
- 1v1s I thought better of playing my Guardian, but after I started playing with other weapons with my Elementalist, I started to note both professions’ strengths. Guardians are better for the “standard” battles I’d guess (you take damage and deal damage, you deal more than your opponent, you win), while Elementalists were better at “high control” battles (you combo your enemy in a way he doesn’t react properly by locking him up – but this is using S/D and D/D).
Against really skilled players I think I’d rather play the Elementalist, these guys always managed to outrun my Guardian (with no proper swiftness or cripple), but they can’t avoid being locked up.
- Chasing people or groups away is better with the Elementalist. Preventing someone from running away is also better with the Elementalist. I lost count of how many times I got kills from running players when I thought “if I were on my Guardian, he’d have escaped”.

At some point ago, when I was getting bored of playing the Elementalist, I considered leveling a Warrior for WvW and general playing. I tested them alot and found them to be tankier due to their larger health, and since they have almost 100% uptime of Fury their damage is also better in my opinion. They lack on our magical stuff such as teleports, absorbs and reflections, but they can play ranged instead.
I remember at the time thinking that a Warrior could be better in nearly everything than a Guardian for WvW, but I don’t remember why I didn’t leveled one.

However, today, back to playing after a break, I’m starting to reconsider my thoughts. Maybe I don’t need to be the one AoEing the top of the walls, I might leave that to someone else and just focus on healing and ressing those around me – other glass cannons like I play with my Elementalist, who are playing an “important” role of damaging stuff.

Danicco.3568:

snip

This is going to sound like a weird comment, but thanks for such a well reasoned and honest post.

i love playing my Guard in WvW. if IRL time is not an issue, you can play multiple characters in WvW. i knwo plenty who do that : ))) i don’t have a lot of time, but even if i did, i would still exclusively play my Guardian. jsut because i love the class so much and it’s what i’ve grown into.

that being said.. there’s a lot you can but in small to medium scale fights is where i feel i excel personally. pushing lines definitely fun. roaming in small groups (given a zerg train doesn’t catch you) is also very fun. defending i feel i can do a lot more than attacking. so when knocking on doors, if not manning siege, i will prevent more defenders from entering or help boon out those doing the heavy work. even chasing down enemies, with lack of mobility, the CC that we have i feel i actually do decent catching enemies. holding choke points, Guardians are great at.

check out some of the many WvW Guardians on these forums. a lot of them have great videos.
- Chris’ “Healway” Guardian
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Videos-Guardian-Gameplay/first#post1292300
- Amins
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Videos-Guardian-Gameplay/first#post1292300
- Oozo
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/MOVIES-Hammer-Guardian-in-Roaming-WvW/first
- Incominray’s
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/PVP-Videos-GS-Hammer-in-group-WvW-with-no-AH/first#post1303162
- Zaphael Faires’
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Zaphiel-Faires-WvW-Roaming-1-Guardian/first#post1320683
are all my favorites.

More notes:
- Both are equally good for healing. I find the Guardian better for helping others though, because I can take more damage and I can have a bunch of protections, absorbs and reflections.
- For putting pressure, the Guardian is also better since most people panic away when a melee is on them. Putting pressure with a Staff Elementalist is a joke, and most people will avoid your AoEs.

And against really coordinated groups (you’ll find these more often in servers with guilds focused on WvW) you’ll probably hate your Guardian. You won’t get to do anything effectively, you’ll die just by thinking of attacking someone in their mob, and your walls/gates won’t last long and you’ll also die if you try to fish from the walls.
It’s frustrating.

Against these with an Elementalist, you won’t do much either, they will either avoid all your AoE damage or they will take it (when they’re manning Rams) but they simply won’t die, all your AoE won’t be a match for their healing groups and defensive protections. If you get even a bit careless, their “damage” players will instantly put you down. You can probably live more and longer than the Guardian, because you can stack mobility and if you manage to run from their path, they probably won’t chase you – they’re in for the objective.
But it’s almost as frustrating in my opinion.

I remember once playing against a group that I managed to cast my full AoE rain, and I noticed that the 10~15 players just stood there, still, and NONE of them even got downed. This was the first time I felt frustrated with my Elementalist for the lack of damage.

Good suggestions all around. However, I’m sure OP is not satisfied.

At lv 26 you have probably experienced a lot of the weak points of the guardian already. As you level to 80 you may find some of the issues become less of a problem. You’ll hit harder, and you’ll be a little more tough. Your traits will allow you to really specialize and you also have more choice in attribute distribution. However, you’re right to realize that you cannot cast meteor shower, you cannot cast portal, you cannot stealth past veteran guards, your siege blocking bubble is sub-par compared to swirling wind, and the list goes on and on.

There is no comparison, but you should not compare. What you should do though, is to find an organized group that has utilized Guardians as part of their strategy. The Guardian’s tool set makes them very well suited for a force multiplier role. Guardians are also the strongest spike healers. These are all very specialized functions that requires a lot of coordination to pull off. If you look at all the disciplined guilds in WvW, 9 times out of 10 you’ll see Guardians as part of their group make up. They may not be in front DPS’ing, but you’ll see their consecrations, or their elite tomes, or you see that their army is highly resistant to attrition… This list also goes on and on. That’s really what Guardians are about.

My role as a Guardian is the Juggernaut:

45% crit change, 17.300HP (unbuffed), 3k+ armor and 2650 Power.

I can take alot of punishment and deal aswell. Im supposed to be the frontman, but not a useless meatball with no power and crit.

good stuff, Heinel. just to add, group composiiton and size can make a huge difference, and the Guardian will definitely find theyir place in such skirmishes. i’ve seen vids and others play with such coordination that the Guard can and will play a pretty crucial role.

just to add, it’s a lot of fun learning combo’s and being able to utilize them in battle. given each class can place certain fields and pop finishers… though with hammer #2 for e.g. it’s on such a short CD, and triggers AoE ____’s, it’s pretty awesome. AoE heals, AoE blinds, AoE might / retal, all good stuff.

Guardian is a blast in WvW. For me the main thing is to be the center of attention. Let everyone focus on you, with the right build you easily survive and still put up huge numbers.

Older WvW vid of mine:

Alarox.4590:

CRrabbit.1284:

Role Number 2: Hold the line or Push , Guardian is the only class who has many area denial skills.

You need to play more professions, badly.

Indeed.
The only classes that have real area denial are the ones that can
lay multiple overlapping AoE that does huge dps.
Guardian area denial is for Hello Kitty.

Aenaos.8160:

Alarox.4590:

CRrabbit.1284:

Role Number 2: Hold the line or Push , Guardian is the only class who has many area denial skills.

You need to play more professions, badly.

Indeed.
The only classes that have real area denial are the ones that can
lay multiple overlapping AoE that does huge dps.
Guardian area denial is for Hello Kitty.

He’s talking about Wall of Lining and Sanctuary. Both can literally halt entire enemy zergs in their tracks.

Coordinated Wall of Linings and Sanctuaries between multiple Guardian’s can make choke points unpassable. No other class in game has their power.

Stability, it just takes an other guardian and they just walk past it, damage is the real area denial and guardians isnt the best in area denial. Stacking damage rules.

Digging trenches was last used during WW1 and building walls died at the Maginot line in WW2.

Simply put, there are 3 rolls:

DPS – Yes, yes we can.
Stability – Line Breaking/Dmg Soaking
Protection – CC / Boons & Healing / Dmg Negation (bubbles/walls/Lines & Rings)

1) Don’t be fooled by these “I’ma Healer!” guys on the forums. Our DPS is extremely balanced and I have ZERO problems.

2) We solo roam just fine… just note, you won’t escape so plan to either kill them all or die trying. /grin I wouldn’t have it any other way. Escape is for WUSSIES!

3) 95% of the time it’s clearly a L2P issue.

• Thanks for the Mention akamon.2769 ****

Have always ran a glass cannon guardian build in wvw. I’m guessing that I’m either crazy or actually a genius. Most likely both.

Contrary to what most support tanky guardians would say about this build though. I find myself very useful. And consider myself some of the most important personnel in a group. Pretty much making the difference between pushing back the enemy Zerg, wiping them compared to both groups stalling each other out forever.

Now I know everybody would say glass cannon guardians has bad damage and survivability. But in my experience this is not the case.

I go in down an 80 , downs another upscaled 80 standing around with aoe cleave. Meanwhile planting a wall of reflection in their face and watch all the ranged classes stare at me. I also get out alive 90% of the time. And all of this is on a 40 second cooldown.

When I go in at least 1 guy on the other side dies. Always. So I encourage people like the op to not dismiss the glass cannon, and offensive specced guardian in wvw. It has it’s place too in this playing field. And pls don’t try to compare the glass cannon guardian with a glass canon warrior. Our kind has more in common with backstab thieves than anything else. The only difference between us and them though is that there the cookie cutter build so everyone thinks there op. While glass cannon guards are 1 in a 1000. Chances are you have never been killed by one. So you think they suck.

ComeAndSee.1356:

Aenaos.8160:

Alarox.4590:

CRrabbit.1284:

Role Number 2: Hold the line or Push , Guardian is the only class who has many area denial skills.

You need to play more professions, badly.

Indeed.
The only classes that have real area denial are the ones that can
lay multiple overlapping AoE that does huge dps.
Guardian area denial is for Hello Kitty.

He’s talking about Wall of Lining and Sanctuary. Both can literally halt entire enemy zergs in their tracks.

Coordinated Wall of Linings and Sanctuaries between multiple Guardian’s can make choke points unpassable. No other class in game has their power.

You realize you can shuffle right on through that with Stability, right?

Sanctuary (on enemy portals) and wall of reflection.

Even if we only had these two skills, it would make the guardian worthwhile in wvw.

Churros.7196:

Sanctuary (on enemy portals) and wall of reflection.

Even if we only had these two skills, it would make the guardian worthwhile in wvw.

This. As well as buffing as often as possible and condition removal.

Throwing up a sanctuary on an enemy portal turns a portal bomb into a wipe. Well placed walls of reflection can save your group from wiping, or aid an aggressive push into the enemy.

One of my favorite things to do that I don’t seem to find many other guardians doing is use your sanctuary aggressively. It’s not just for defense. Cast it in the middle of the enemy zerg (with ground targeted consecrations) and watch all the knockdowns and interrupts. Not to mention putting it in the middle of an enemy group usually makes them think it’s their sanctuary, so they all try to run into it and get the knockdown.

Lately though, I’m having a blast running a built that focuses on durability and buffing. Run the trait that grants might to all allies on a critical hit. Jack your precision up and go full shouts. The result is nearby allies rarely have less than 10 stacks of might. Now carry a staff and coordinate with another guardian on empower just before charging into the fight to start off with 24 stacks or might. You can’t tell me that isn’t valuable.

The best advice I can give you though is to be ready to change your utility skills on the fly. I feel like that goes for every class in WvW though if you want to get the most out of it.

Posting late at night makes some weird postings, so I’m here to correct that.

I don’t mean to be offensive, but to anyone who’s been saying that Guardians are viable and feel “important” in WvW clearly never played another profession equally or are just uninformed.
I remembered now the line of thought I did when I decided which character I’d play for WvW, my Elementalist or Guardian.

- Using Rams/Sieges (Guardian 1 × 0 Elementalist):
Guardian: You can man the Rams if you got a bulky build/gear. Arrow Carts won’t deal much damage and even AoEs won’t hurt too much, if your group does some healing you’re fine.
Elementalist: This is unproductive. You’re better off doing something else.

- Attacking Enemies on Sieges (Guardian 1 × 1 Elementalist)
Guardian: You’re limited to Scepter’s auto-attack, Smite and Staff’s Orb of Light and Symbol of Swiftness. The damages are pathetic in my opinion, Scepter’s auto-attack is easily avoidable, Smite takes too long to deal noticeable damage and only hurts for real in a few seconds against glass cannon builds. Staves fall in the same situation. Their area of effect is short so it’s not possible to destroy siege deployed further the walls. Scepter’s Immobilize is good to get kills on careless enemies, but with it’s short duration it’s only reliable if there’s alot of people attacking at once.
Line of Warding helps blocks jumpers sometimes, but can be dodged so it’s unreliable.
Elementalist: You have plenty of options, and some of your AoEs will reach most corners of the walls, allowing you to destroy any siege. If needed be, you can switch to Scepter and Dragon’s Tooth it away no matter where it is as long as you’re in range and able to target it. You can deal a bunch of conditions as well, which are awesome to damage even after they’re gone from the visible areas.
With tons of controls (some instant), you can easily get kills from jumpers.

- Helping Allies on Attacking Sieges (Guardian 2 × 1 Elementalist)
Guardian: Staff’s healing prowess is unmatched. If properly traited (which happens to be my build) you can drop Symbols with large areas that heals for 130~ x5, plus Empower for damage and a 3k+ heal every 16 seconds. Ressing others is also easier if you’re tough. Orb of Light heals for 1k~, but you need to learn how to aim it for allies.
Wall of Reflection, Sanctuary and Shouts are awesome for this too.
Elementalist: You can AoE heal as good or almost as good as a Staff Guardian, since you probably don’t need to trait for Battle Presence, but you’re not a heavy tanker so you probably can’t stay inside the fire for too long, only being useful from afar.

- Defending Sieges (Guardian 2 × 2 Elementalist)
Guardian: You’re in the same situation as attacking for ranged options, but you can also jump down and fish for kills. Against small groups you can do fine and survive pretty fine, against large groups (and/or coordinated) you’ll playing a high risk low reward scenario. Even if you do get someone down, chances you won’t be able to finish them are high, and you’ll have to trust someone else from your group will be able to finish them from up the walls.
Elementalist: The best situation possible for you. Against small groups you can focus on someone to bring them down quickly, even jumping down and fishing like a Guardian, and against large groups your AoEs will surely hit a bunch most of the time. Killing people on Rams is a must and really easy if they don’t run away. With quicker heals and more healing options than a Guardian, you’re able to stay in combat for longer periods of time.

- Skirmish Battles (Guardian 2 × 3 Elementalist)
Guardian: Solid game, can withstand a lot of damage and deal a lot of damage with a few key control options (using Greatsword, Staff and Hammer). You can push enemies alone, though if they’re a coordinated group you’re probably dead if you get focused from 5~10 at once.
Elementalist: Solid game as well, though safer than a Guardian’s, but your pressure is weaker since there’s few people and they can avoid your AoEs easier. If you’re playing S/D or D/D though, you can pressure someone for good and burst for insane damage with low reaction time.
Both are good in this, but elementalists are ahead for safer playing/controls (Staff) and burst/controls (S/D, D/D).

- Massive Battles (Guardian 2 × 4 Elementalist)
Guardian: You’re limited to ranged weapons or support (healing) with a Staff. Getting close to the enemy army is not an option as you’ll die for sure, and with your weak ranged options, you’re a dead weight if you don’t play support.
Elementalist: Solid game, safe with a Staff, don’t consider using a S/D or D/D for this. You can place a bunch of AoE controls/slows to prevent enemies from escaping or advancing, while still being able to play support if needed.

[continue]

[continuing]

- Escaping Enemies (Guardian 2 × 5 Elementalist)
Guardian: Your best options for surviving are Wall of Reflection, Shelter and Renewed Focus combined with Contemplation of Purity/Hold Your Ground to avoid getting locked down. Alternate Shelter/Renewed Focus with your two dodges (or 3 if you Sigil for it) for maximum escape distance.
Elementalist: Your best way to avoid damage is drop AoE slows on your enemies, Windborne Speed can cancel cripples and slows, or Ride the Lightning (non-targeted) for quick escapes. If still needed, you can Mist Form for 3 seconds, if you get locked you can also Lightning Flash (breaks stun). If you get down, you can Vapor Form for even more distance covering. Paired with an extra 10% movement speed from Air, you’ll probably reach behind your group’s lines if they’re not retreating full speed or behind your walls.

- Boss Battles against Enemies for Location’s Control (Guardian 2 × 6 Elementalist)
Guardian: These battles are a total mess, and getting down during one means 100% chance of death because no one will probably try to resurrect you. There’s enemies and allies in front, in the back, and to the sides. It’s each to their own here.
Elementalist: You should avoid being in the middle of it, obviously. Playing safe is key here, you can cast your AoEs and you’ll hit people for sure. If someone comes for you, it’s also easy to lose them in the middle of the mess, and if you need, you can use your mobility options to get out of harm’s way.
(This type of battle is rare, but happens when all walls/gates are down in Stonemist Castle for example, and it’s a single massive zerg x zerg inside the center room)

- 1v1s (Guardian 2 × 7 Elementalist)
Guardian: Solid game, borderline overpowered, you’ll pretty much always deal more damage than you take on a standard battle of taking and dealing damage. But decent players will know when they’ve run out of options and will attempt to flee, and chances you won’t caught them are high. You get to kill the careless and “honorable” ones though.
Elementalist: Staff if weaker than S/D and D/D, but it’s manageable to fight off melees if played correctly. With S/D or D/D though, enemies won’t be able to run or escape you at all unless they’re a Thief, Mesmers and Elementalists built (skilled) for escaping and if you miss your controls.
Both have solid games, but Elementalist’s can deal more punishment on unskilled players and prevent them from running away.

- Running Around (Guardian 2 × 8 Elementalist)
Guardian: Symbol of Swiftness and Leap of Faith alternatively is the best you can do without sacrificing an utility skill to run faster.
Elementalist: More than 100% Swiftness uptime with Windborne Speed and Glyph of Elemental Harmony, even though it’s a healing spell, being at 20 sec CD makes it easily manageable as long as an enemy doesn’t appear the second you use it and he gets the burst on you (Thief), but if this happens, you were careless.

- Underwater Combat (Guardian 2 × 9 Elementalist)
Guardian: Really, really really weak underwater combat in my opinion. You have two control options, just like as if you’re playing Greatsword/Hammer on ground, but the damage output of the weapons are terrible.
Elementalist: Great mobility being underwater means even more survivability for you, and the damage output underwater is probably even higher than on ground. On some battles, I prefer to stay underwater while attacking people on ground (like the bay inner gates).

- Trick and Deceive (Guardian 2 × 10 Elementalist)
Guardian: Lack of decent ranged weapon makes this inviable. Your only option becomes using Shield of Absorption for pushback.
Elementalist: There’s a bunch of places you can play tricks on your enemies, such as moving to ceilings and attacking from above, pushing them from top of towers or walls, or simply kiting them around. You make better use of LoS objects as well.

These are all the situations I’ve played I can remember for now.
You might notice on some points the Guardian may present a solid stand, but the fact that other professions can have the same solid stand while still having an advantage still means the Guardian’s loss (such as skirmishes).

Guardians are awesome for a bunch of things, borderline OP in PvE I’d say, but for WvW it really falls short no matter how you play it. You can do much more playing another profession if you’re equally geared and skilled with them.
If you’re a player that consider performance above all (I do), you’re probably leveling another profession for WvW and leaving the Guardian for PvP/PvE.

There is some good critique here, but a lot of it is related to playstyle in my opinion. You have to play guardian with a different mindset than other classes.

- Defending Sieges (Guardian 2 × 2 Elementalist)
You’re right that guardians are limited here with scepter attacks, but if you change your strategy from trying to damage enemies on siege to just trying to keep them away from it, your effectiveness goes up dramatically. With ground targeted consecrations and staff, I can keep enemies off of a siege build site for about 12 seconds. Which is more than enough time for my team to nuke it.

2:37 in the video: http://vimeo.com/52354996

- Skirmish Battles (Guardian 2 × 3 Elementalist)
“Guardian: You can push enemies alone, though if they’re a coordinated group you’re probably dead if you get focused from 5~10 at once.”

This depends entirely on how you trait and equip. I routinely soak up focused fire through use of high toughness, altruistic healing, healing dodge rolls, and protection. Granted you can only take focused fire for so long, but that’s a far cry from saying you’re probably dead if you get focused from 5-10. Not to mention how much damage you do in those situations by keeping retaliation up.

- Massive Battles (Guardian 2 × 4 Elementalist)
“Guardian: You’re limited to ranged weapons or support (healing) with a Staff. "

Support, yes. Healing, no. Support is not just healing. It’s throwing up consecrations, keeping buffs up. Empower as often as you can for the aoe might stacks. I would say that in this game, healing is almost just a side effect of support.

You’re never going to compete in ranged damage with other classes. This is by design. Can you imagine how OP wall of reflection would be if we could throw it up then stand behind it and dish out massive ranged damage? So when you’re at range, swap to a staff and something with a shield offhand for your 2nd set. Keep buffs up and use your consecrations strategically. You can hold off a choke point while your allies bombard it with siege. (1:05 in the same vid – http://vimeo.com/52354996) Not to mention sanctuary is basically a free res

http://vimeo.com/user13950464/da-nov-dec-wvw-vimeo

0:53 – Using sanctuary + line of warding to slow down fleeing enemies so teammates can catch up.

1:23 – Using sanctuary for a res in the middle of a med/large group of enemies.

- 1v1s (Guardian 2 × 7 Elementalist)
Pretty accuarate critique here. You won’t be running many people down with a guardian unless you’re using a GS and a Sword/offhand for a teleport, leap and snare.

- Running Around (Guardian 2 × 8 Elementalist)
This is true. Devs have even gone on record stating they want the guardian to be slow.

- Underwater Combat (Guardian 2 × 9 Elementalist)
Accurate again. Although I tend to thing the trident is pretty solid for supporting allies. But you’re not going to outdamage anyone here.

- Trick and Deceive (Guardian 2 × 10 Elementalist)
-Accurate, but the criteria is not fair. Guardians would be insanely OP if they had the kind of ability to trick and deceive as an elementalist or a thief. We would be impossible to kill.

As you’ll see from the two videos, I’m far from the best player out there (there’s some spots in both where you see me make some pretty bad mistakes. Having the wrong weapon set near the end of the 2nd vid almost gets me embarrassingly killed). And my build has actually changed quite a bit since those we’re taken. They’re just an example for some out of the box thinking when playing the guardian. Is it an easy class to play? No. But I can’t agree that it falls short no matter how you play it. You just have to play it differently. Get out of the mindset of having to do large amounts of damage. (You can see I do pretty sad damage in those vids acually. Again, build has changed since then though and I hit a bit harder now.) Think of the battlefield like a chess board and your consecrations as the pieces. Make your objective to control the pace of the battle instead of just killing enemies, and I think you can definitely say you’re useful to your team at the least.

Camman.2984:

To start off, I’d like to give some background experience. I’m a multiglad in WoW and almost achieved the status of R1, I’ve played SWTOR and WoW competitively and achieved respectable ratings. I am a seasoned PvPer who likes to be in the heat of battle, always useful to his team mates.

I do like to land kills here and there, and I like a lot of support. However, I’ve noticed WvW is very biased towards ranged and you’ll get blown up if you get too close to anything.

-My question:
Do you personally feel like you play a valuable role in an open battle/Siege Attack/Defense in WvW without using Siege Weapons. In other words, do you feel like you’re doing anything? I don’t mean throwing down a shield and healing people or reflecting stuff. Do you feel like you’re a vital part of the front line that doesn’t get blown up?

Personally, I’m only level 26 on my Guardian but I’ve always played support classes, especially in WoW I was a Paladin. So Guardian was my natural choice. I want to land kills, but I feel that can be difficult. Please share your stories, they’re very important.

If not, I’m probably just level up my level 20 Elementalist.

Guardians can play several roles for their team. It sounds like you want to be offensive support. That is the role I play. I am usually the one that pushes and breaks the line.

I have a ton of videos showing that playstyle for guardian. Check out my youtube page.

http://www.youtube.com/user/RaggokOozo

Danicco.3568:

- Defending Sieges (Guardian 2 × 2 Elementalist)
Guardian: You’re in the same situation as attacking for ranged options, but you can also jump down and fish for kills. Against small groups you can do fine and survive pretty fine, against large groups (and/or coordinated) you’ll playing a high risk low reward scenario. Even if you do get someone down, chances you won’t be able to finish them are high, and you’ll have to trust someone else from your group will be able to finish them from up the walls.
Elementalist: The best situation possible for you. Against small groups you can focus on someone to bring them down quickly, even jumping down and fishing like a Guardian, and against large groups your AoEs will surely hit a bunch most of the time. Killing people on Rams is a must and really easy if they don’t run away. With quicker heals and more healing options than a Guardian, you’re able to stay in combat for longer periods of time.

- Boss Battles against Enemies for Location’s Control (Guardian 2 × 6 Elementalist)
Guardian: These battles are a total mess, and getting down during one means 100% chance of death because no one will probably try to resurrect you. There’s enemies and allies in front, in the back, and to the sides. It’s each to their own here.
Elementalist: You should avoid being in the middle of it, obviously. Playing safe is key here, you can cast your AoEs and you’ll hit people for sure. If someone comes for you, it’s also easy to lose them in the middle of the mess, and if you need, you can use your mobility options to get out of harm’s way.
(This type of battle is rare, but happens when all walls/gates are down in Stonemist Castle for example, and it’s a single massive zerg x zerg inside the center room)

I don’t think you give the guardian enough credits for these 2 scenarios. If it’s just killing rammers, all class can nuke from wall or melee from behind the gate, any pugs can do it. Catapults and such are a little more interesting. Typical scenario involves a portal bomb right behind the siege cluster and while yes, an ele is favorable for this tactic because meteor shower is extra effective against structures like siege weapons, the issue becomes more complicated if the siege weapons are also heavily guarded. This is where sanctuary can help not only to instantly disable a siege, but also to protect DPSers who are trying to destroy it. You really need all 3 profs. Mesmer for portal, ele for offense, guardian for shutdown and blocks.

Lord room battles are also where guardian tomes shine the most. Have a group of guardians chain it one after another and your side will come out on top even if out numbered. You could argue that if you replaced all guardians with staff eles you probably will get a similar result and with less coordination, but really, just how often do you see your meteor shower actually downing someone in those scenarios? People who can’t stay out of fire probably won’t make a difference either way (except maybe contributing to the lag). Healing Rain is also a wholly inadequate healing source when you’re getting open fired on by 3 superior ballistas and 2 superior arrowcarts. Here, again, a mix of professions is important. There’s no better or worse.

great stuff in here everyone! and good seeing some Guardians i look up to coming in here, contributing as well.

itching to play WvW right now just reading this thread.

@Amis – i’ve adopted that recently. kill or be killed. sure, it may not be as “tactical” but if i know i can’t escape, i’m gonna die taking some of them down with me. heh. and a part of me just can’t ever leave anyone behind, even if it means staying behind facing a zerg. : ////

@danico

Maybe its just playstyle, while i agree elementalists are generally more useful…..i mean there pretty much like the generally most useful class in most WvW scearios right.

Guardians do have something over them for some more niche roles.

Like all that sanctuary wardings things most people talk about.

And for my glass cannon playstyle. Guardians have a built in advantage over elementalists in the form of 1200 range Judge Intervention.
Its even longer range than thief steal.
Making us as much of an opportunistic class as a backstab thief and thus why i compare offensive guardians to them.

It makes us optimal for picking on the weak links of the enemy zerg in WvW. You dont show weakness against an assasin style guardian or backstab thief in WvW. The moment you do, they blink on top of you and your down.

Compared with the glass cannon elementalist or warrior where you can see them coming from a mile away. All your element of surprise is gone. And all the squisihies see you coming and retreat back into the middle of their zerg and deny you of the kill.

Glassy elementalists are only better when it comes to running away. But thats a reasonable trade-off.

Danicco.3568:

I don’t mean to be offensive, but to anyone who’s been saying that Guardians are viable and feel “important” in WvW clearly never played another profession equally or are just uninformed.

I have played 8 characters in WvW and 5 of them are level 80’s with full exotics.

From my experience, a few staff guardians with wall of reflection and at least a couple guardians with sanctuary in a 20+ group is must. These skills with ward skills(staff and hammer 5) can have a major effect in zerg fights especially when both teams are trying to buffstack veil zerg ball or fight on a chokepoint.

Yes, wards and sanctuaries can be negated with stability, but even if some of them go through since the 5man limit on buffs, you can’t have the whole team with stability reliably. This results in the enemy zerg split up when they go through the wards and this results in the enemy zerg dead.

Also, wall of reflection is one of the best zerg fight skills in the game. This skill basically cuts off the ranged characters on the enemy team from the fight for 10 seconds if placed well and allows your melees to rush to the enemy ranged without much damage. This skill shines especially on fights on walls or choke points.

From my point of view, support guardians are one of the core classes in a successful zerg(15man+) group along with hammer warriors, mesmers(don’t need that many though) and staff elementalists(for the combo fields, not damage). They have skills that are essential to counter some of the metas in the game. Yes, if you play to guardians strengths in a zerg fight, you won’t do much damage, but you will play a vital role in winning the fight.

I’m do not agree with Dannico on multiple points and it all boils down to one factor: it appears you’re bais when it comes to range.

If that’s ~your~ playstyle, tha’ts fine. But to say Guardians are less than everyone else because we don’t have that aspect, is UTTER RUBBISH.

For guardians, range = backline support. It’s been said over and over and over and over and over and over and over…………..

For all the other awesome guardians who like to be in the thick of it… we have multiple ways of doing so AND STAYING ALIVE. Clearly you do not run w/a group who will support you once you’ve blown your utilies supporting them. Poor game play.

For massive zergs: Stability & Dmg Negation. IMHO, it’s the only way.

If you’re wanting to go into the think of it, you’re not going to be a glass cannon when trying to flank zergs during primetime. It’s perfect for small groups in off time where you’re 5vs10 or they’re streaming in to a choke point or staying in the back w/ the range and making sure all those kitten thieves and mesmers are taken out before they wreck havoc (ie, defending agiast thier push). That’s where, for example, my build shines.

But when I’m running w/ a grewe ~during primetine w/ massive zergfest going on~, you bet i’m something like 0/5/5/30/30, running in healing gear and +boon duration, because personally, I like to play the class as:
1) FRONT LINE FIGHTERS.
2) We give our group just enough time to divide and concur.
3) WoR, RoW, Stability
4) Virtues – all traited.

Warrior, Guardian and D/D Ele walk into a Bar….

You know, all arguments presented about the Guardian’s importance in WvW is limited to supporting, which I think I clearly said they’re better than Elementalists.

And truly, I find it a bit sad to play a profession which my most important part is to use a single skill (Wall of Reflection) or sometimes two (Sanctuary).

Stability is unreliable because of the AoE limitation, and no one expects to have a Guardian around who will grant stability when I need it most. I walk around with no less than 2 stun breakers on my Elementalist, and if a Guardian stood by my side the entire time, I’d still run with at least 2 all the time.
Having Stability is a bonus, which may happen “luckily” if the moment I have the boon (5 seconds without bonus) is the exact moment when a Mesmer dazes me for example.

Everything else falls in the “the Guardian can do fine, but if another profession can do better, it’s their loss”.
Line of Warding, Ring of Warding, Wall of Reflection, Sanctuary can look wonderful in choke points, but you know what else is wonderful for choke points? A Static Field (dazes), a Frozen Ground (freezes), an Unsteady Ground (cripples), an Earth based Glyph of Storms (blinds every sec for 10 secs), a Swirling Winds (destroy projectiles for 6 secs).
This with the ability of dropping massive damage AoEs such as Phoenix, Dragon’s Tooth, Meteor Shower or Churning Earth.

A Guardian may prevent enemy zerg advances for a few seconds, an Elementalist may help prevent the advance while injuring them badly.

I never said Guardians are bad. They do have their importance, and in smaller, coordinated groups they can be incredibly useful, borderline OP even (I stopped PvPing a few months ago, but aren’t people still always looking for a Guardian for tourneys? Or isn’t it one of the must have professions?), but when it comes to WvW, it falls short to other professions.

So don’t assume I’m talking crap about Guardians. I do have one and I play regularly with it, and I enjoy it. But regarding the OP’s question, which is “Do you personally feel like you play a valuable role in an open battle/Siege Attack/Defense in WvW without using Siege Weapons. In other words, do you feel like you’re doing anything? I don’t mean throwing down a shield and healing people or reflecting stuff. Do you feel like you’re a vital part of the front line that doesn’t get blown up?” I say no, playing a Guardian doesn’t feel as vital to the group as playing an Elementalist.

It’s really a L2P issue for Guardians as it is with most classes. People who do not know how to play a Guardian or silly enough to think Guard in Guardian = Bunker/defence will not be able to kill anything as they are so focused on survival. These builds just delay death. Not advisable.

Guardians have the potential to do both good damage and good defence AT THE SAME TIME. Just about every other class has to sacrifice one for the other. Find your happy medium. don’t believe the “We are GUARDians” crowed.

As for WvW. If your not killing anything or buffing allies outside a fortified position. Go on a supply run and help build siege machines. There is no excuse in just standing around and doing nothing. There are many jobs that you can do. I’ve been doing WvW pretty much since the game was released and can tell you that people who try to shoot down defenders from a wall do nothing but waste time. Defenders can just choose to die behind the wall and get ressed by their team mates. The best thing to do with sieges is to break down the wall/door as quickly as possible with siege machines. Not be stupid mindless zergling and think kill kill kill. WvW is very tactical. It is another L2P issue.

Guardian is the most versatile class in the game second from Elementalist but doesn’t have the massive attunement juggling that is required for an ele.

Roaming as a solo Guardian is perfectly Ok. You will mostly win 2v1 or 3v1 if you are a skilled player. For sieges you either lead the zerg/party or you help with sieges. Defend siege machines when built or block the enemy going back into their fort/keep with RoW or Sanctuary. Hell you can even use banish on them to knock them into your zerg and die.

You will only be as limited as your imagination. Don’t believe the fools.

Fair enough Dannico.

However, what you fail to mention is that in group play, combining BOTH the Dmg Negatation, Wardings and Stability (consecration, not shout) with the Ele / Mesmer fields is what allows Melee damage to get in there and destroy people.

Guardians contribute just fine and are not pigeon holed into anything.

Zergs / Raiding has ~always~ been different then small tactical group play.

Know what you want to do / focus on first before you make a class. This has ~always~ been the case.

- you know if you’re “a raider”, you will be motivated to spec a certain way for the greater good. FACT.

Same for Zerging.

Yes, there are those few people who excell at thier class and seem to make the impossible work… they are the exception to ‘the rule’.

I’m still running my archon build and its great fun in dungeons and pretty satisfying in moderate sized skirmishes (12-20ish on a side). Its not a 1-on-1 build by any stretch, but give me a few melee-minded folks to force multiply for and wham!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/The-Archon-0-30-10-20-10/first#post1327613

Guardians are only good at front lining when in a group with several other guards/warriors all pushing together. Unlike other pvp tanks in other games, you will drop pretty quickly if in the front, by yourself. In a group of melers the damage is spread out amongst the party and healing and buffs are shared.

As the only frontliner in a group you need to skirmish. Hit and run.

(Since it’s on topic, I’ll also share a WvW story since OP also asked for these – although I don’t think he’s following his thread anymore).

@Amins

This falls to the “skirmish” kind of battle which Guardians are good about, but just as good as any other profession. The main issue Guardians have in WvW is with massive battles and siege battles, when a ranged weapon (a decent one) is practically a must.

I see in your signature that you’re from Ehmry Bay as well, so you might remember if you’ve played WvW a few months ago. (huge wall of text inc)

I played against the Northern Shiverpeaks a few months ago when they where the green server (they get Lowlands in Eternal Battlegrounds). I remember that we almost always had the upper hand, but during certain times of the day their “main zerg” would come online and take the whole map, and we’d be busy getting each location back during the night.
We noticed it was simply impossible to fight back because we lacked the numbers, they overwhelmed us by like 5+ per Ehmry Bay player.

One day, during prime time, we had Stonemist Castle and their main zerg came online. They started to push towards the southwest gate where I was, and I died a couple of times trying to jump down and attack the ram users.
I use to play with: Wall of Reflection, Judge’s Intervention, Smite Condition. Shelter and Renewed Focus, Greatsword and Staff.
My gear is Soldier armor and weapon, Valkyrie trinkets. 30/0/10/30. Lots of health, decent armor, lots of power.

I died twice because I was stun locked long enough for them to burn me down (only the melees, because I had the Wall of Reflection up when I jumped down). That’s when I thought “there’s too many of them”.
So I picked my Staff, and started Orb of Light-ing them from the gates. I tried attacking through the gates, I had a Warrior’s target I picked before, and I noticed his health was barely moving from my (and probably other’s attacks) Wave of Light, so I decided to stop it as well, and started healing allies on top of the walls. My build has Symbol healing, so I could throw these and give a 800ish heal to someone, plus Empower.

They were all in the front area of the gate, when I noticed they started going down and retreating. There were a few Necros and Elementalists who walked to southwest most corner of the wall (right to the side of their huge zerg) and started AoEing like crazy. Seeing a bunch of people going down while trying to run crippled was awesome, so I jumped down the walls and helped finish the downed off.

A huge road battle started, but it was impossible to get close to their army, just by sticking my nose in the front line of mine I was getting chain locked, slowed and crippled and had to Shelter/Dodge away. So I stood in the back watching Rangers, Warriors, Necros and Elementalists battle away. I attacked some few warriors who thought it’d be a good idea to rush our zerg, some of which almost managed to run away with their shield up “I’m invincible for 3 seconds that seems more like 10” running with their back showing just to see they get dazed/pulled back as soon as their shield went down. I thought “that’s what you get for trying to tank 30+”.

We were pushing them back with the momentum, and they were at the scout area. I noticed some players running towards above the hills and there were a few enemies there, so I went there too (with Judge’s) and helped fight the 2~3 that were still there.
So there I was, looking from above to their main zerg of still 30+ (even though a LOT had just died) and ours slowly pushing them back. My Staff’s attack doesn’t hit in the vertical, so I just dropped Orb of Lights, Symbols, Empower and Line of Warding against the ones in the front. I think I got our team a couple more kills.

Orb was slow as hell back then. Symbols, although my build enhances them, still did just 600~700ish damage x5. It seemed poor since I knew that up close I deal about 4 times the damage.
Then we pushed them to their keep, where they had cannons and ballistas, and our players started to go down like crazy. We had at one point 10+ downed (not dead) in the north point of their keep’s bridge. I jumped down to help, but it was hurting even on me. Wall of Reflection didn’t helped, nor did Sanctuary (I swapped Smite Condition for it). I just ressed the time I could, then Shelter-ed back and started healing/empower the team while Shelter was on CD.

Then our team would retreat back to the scout area, the cannons would stop a bit, when I’d Judge’s someone at the bridge with Symbol + Whirling Wrath and scare them back again. I did this 3 times before getting down because I couldn’t Shelter in time. No kills, but it was fun hitting that many in the bridge and seeing them run back to the keep. I lasted less than 5 seconds every time with focused fire + siege damage.

[continue]

[continuing]

Although fun, this was one of the moments I thought “I wish I could do ranged” that led me to level my Elementalist. There was a bunch of times I just had to stay in the back/middle of our zerg just supporting/healing, and I’d sometimes risk attack someone and try to Shelter/Renewed Focus back but not once in these situations I actually got someone killed – down yes, but I had to escape before finishing them, even more since the moment they see an ally downed, they start attacking you like crazy. So I got frustrated with the “high risk no reward” from these times.

Fighting for camps, small groups in scouts’ areas and the road is effective, but just as effective as anyone else. Massive zerg battles doesn’t made me feel important at all, especially since this was when I started considering traiting 10 in Virtues just for Master of Consecrations because I thought Wall of Reflection was awesome.
This meant I felt this was one of my most important actions, every 40 seconds, and just for these massive zerg battles.

(They really should increase the body limit from 5001, I always need more than 1 post for these types of posts…)

Relentliss.2170:

Guardians are only good at front lining when in a group with several other guards/warriors all pushing together. Unlike other pvp tanks in other games, you will drop pretty quickly if in the front, by yourself. In a group of melers the damage is spread out amongst the party and healing and buffs are shared.

As the only frontliner in a group you need to skirmish. Hit and run.

Another story from WvWing with my characters.

Once we fought Blackgate, when all the big WvW guilds were there (I’ve read they changed to Kaineng, so not sure if it’s still the same) and this statement holds true.
I was playing my Elementalist, thinking I was safe dropping all my AoEs and stuff in their zerg, when I noticed a bunch (like 10+) of their melees charging (and at least 5 on me).

I was like “wtf is going on? Are they crazy?” then after having to retreat (my Elementalist is awesome for running away) I looked back and noticed all our zerg also running away, even though our numbers matched theirs. It was simply a tactic, and since they were organized and we weren’t, we ran away.
Probably everyone had the same thought at the time, something like “they broke through, time to retreat!” when they just faced us straight forward.

Another time, fighting in one of the -lake towers (east one), our zerg was a bit under their numbers, but I was impressed by how the freaking hell a couple of thieves, a warrior and a guardian rushed through our zerg and followed me all the way to the bridge to the keep when I ran out of options to cleanse cripples and slows and got killed.

I was again like “wtf is our zerg doing? How do they let these guys simply run through and follow me? If they attacked these guys…” when I noticed they were all from the same guild.

That’s when I found about Blackgate being heavy on WvW guilds and I could notice their higher standing with these kind of tactics.

I also thought “playing a melee like this must be fun…” but since I play solo or in small groups mostly, this wasn’t for me. But if anyone has the chance, I’d recommend it.
I also was wondering how would be a battle of two zergs who just face each other straight like this. It would kinda look like those medieval battles, all that mess around you, must be awesome as hell!

an = skill = geared elementalist, thief, mesmer, engineer will be more valuable then you.
any warrior/guardian in wvwvw must run with either a specialized group or a large group. They are both a niche class in wvwvw. If you find yourself solo or in pug groups don’t bother making either class. They look great but lack in a lot of areas. So far my experience with both class’s are fine as burst units in large or specialized organized groups but lack staying power vrs zergs or large fights on their own….can they stay alive? yes; but what do they do? nothing but stay out of the fight till cds health back then burst in again. If they are mixed in specialized groups or in large zergs they can add great bursts of damage and support but thats it.

To the guys that think guardians or warriors are bad in WvW….

Have you guys fought against or fought inside a zergball veil bomb group?(which, unfortunately, is the #1 choice of open field fighting currently) If you have and still think guardians and warriors are useless in WvW…. too bad i guess..

These zergballs with support guardians and warriors will chew through any group heavy on ranged characters any day its not even funny and when I say chew through, I can’t do my healer dailies because nobody on my side goes down.