Guild Wars 2

As a lot of you are aware on your daily dungeon basis in pugs you are often landed with a cleric guardian. I am sure a lot of the more experienced players know that healing power in pve has very limited uses in dungeon play. In fact it is the opposite.

Now I’m not saying go full zerker ect (even though it would be nice)
But please stay away from this gear

If you kill stuff faster you leave less space for error, and dps massively out performs the healing a cleric can provide. If you want to support your party kill stuff quickly. That is the truth

For anyone using clerics I am sorry but this is true.
I just wanted to tell players so that they don’t buy this horrid armor set

Now I know healing power has its uses in wvw but for dungeons PLEASE don’t use it.

Yours sincerely,

a normal dungeon player runner

Who cares? It’s just a dungeon run. You can go naked if you want.

A lot of people say dead dps = no dps. Which is fine, until you realize they already have like no dps to begin with, aka they’re practically dead anyways.

Sometimes it’s pretty annoying as I do drop dead as I am bad at this game (what the heck is a dodge?) and need to be res’d but then I notice the boss is almost dead and is taking forever to go down anymore because most of the damage came from me! I remember my friend telling me that he wasn’t using his damage set but he didn’t tell anyone. Yea, I wasn’t fooled at all. And it’s my fault of course. Wait, where’s the healing to me? (You’re healing yourself) This support? This tanking? What are you doing? Well, it’s your job to res me I guess.

I’m not exactly a dps zealot though it’d be nice if people actaully sought to accomplish what they were actually doing, optimal or not. Although truth be told, a cleric Battle Presence Hammer Guardian is most likely better than a AH soldier gear useless person.

Ah, here I was thinking the break from constant LS updates would finally give me enough time to learn up and let me get into dungeons.

But I guess I may as well not even bother, since half my characters run Cleric’s or Knight’s and the other half are Rabid. I’ll just be dead weight anyway.

Just find a group that isn’t bent on speedrunning. We would never kick anyone just for having crappy gear (unless I know them personally and they are purposely gimping themselves due to laziness. Or they are insisting on doing something and not actually doing it.) , though condi damage is typically a no-go just because it is broken in PvE. I’m pretty sure we could make something of use for you, even if it’s not optimal or whatnot. I’m not really in a place to call anyone bad, after all. ;p

I don’t care if it takes 50% as long as one keeps a good attitude. Yea, I know that’s really the hardest part.

Maladon.5760:

Who cares? It’s just a dungeon run. You can go naked if you want.

True. But I prefer my arah runs to be around 20 minutes, not a kitten hour while wet noodles swear their healing power is saving anyone more than a dodge is.

But I mostly run premade. And if I pug, I am super specific in the post. Seems to work. Except when I ask for " very experienced" and I get people who love lupi’s foot in their face.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Maladon.5760:

Who cares? It’s just a dungeon run. You can go naked if you want.

True. But I prefer my arah runs to be around 20 minutes, not a kitten hour while wet noodles swear their healing power is saving anyone more than a dodge is.

But I mostly run premade. And if I pug, I am super specific in the post. Seems to work. Except when I ask for " very experienced" and I get people who love lupi’s foot in their face.

You’re gonna have to be more specific for people like me:

“Very experienced/Veteran player, but can’t still suck.” Use that and you’d eliminate players like me

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Maladon.5760:

Who cares? It’s just a dungeon run. You can go naked if you want.

True. But I prefer my arah runs to be around 20 minutes, not a kitten hour while wet noodles swear their healing power is saving anyone more than a dodge is.

But I mostly run premade. And if I pug, I am super specific in the post. Seems to work. Except when I ask for " very experienced" and I get people who love lupi’s foot in their face.

You’re gonna have to be more specific for people like me:

“Very experienced/Veteran player, but can’t still suck.” Use that and you’d eliminate players like me

I didn’t say what the whole lfg. “VERY EXPERIENCED. Zerkers. Melee all Bosses. No play how I want builds. P2” I only get this specific for arah.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Maladon.5760:

Who cares? It’s just a dungeon run. You can go naked if you want.

True. But I prefer my arah runs to be around 20 minutes, not a kitten hour while wet noodles swear their healing power is saving anyone more than a dodge is.

But I mostly run premade. And if I pug, I am super specific in the post. Seems to work. Except when I ask for " very experienced" and I get people who love lupi’s foot in their face.

You’re gonna have to be more specific for people like me:

“Very experienced/Veteran player, but can’t still suck.” Use that and you’d eliminate players like me

I didn’t say what the whole lfg. “VERY EXPERIENCED. Zerkers. Melee all Bosses. No play how I want builds. P2” I only get this specific for arah.

True, but I’ve noticed a trend with that feature the last few times I’ve used it. It’s starting to be used by other people for other content as well.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

True, but I’ve noticed a trend with that feature the last few times I’ve used it. It’s starting to be used by other people for other content as well.

I think this is fine if people want to use it elsewhere. It defines what they’d like, and if you don’t like it, don’t join(not directed at you or anything). I’d rather people spell out their expectations, then start bad mouthing a PUG for joining a non specific run.

Having said that, I love when I see people put 5k AP or kick. That lets me know where the bad players are, and to stay away =D

I’m sorry but it’s the fact that clerics think they are helping people when they are actually gimping everyone else in the groups survival and taking forever to do anything

Electro.4173:

Ah, here I was thinking the break from constant LS updates would finally give me enough time to learn up and let me get into dungeons.

But I guess I may as well not even bother, since half my characters run Cleric’s or Knight’s and the other half are Rabid. I’ll just be dead weight anyway.

There are plenty of runs being done not asking for full berserker and you could easily learn there or just watch dungeon run videos.

That being said, it’s really best to try to work your way into a damage oriented setup once you learn mechanics and what to do dodge/block/blind/reflect in dungeons specially if you don’t have all day to play.

Maladon.5760:

Who cares? It’s just a dungeon run. You can go naked if you want.

I dunno, maybe the other 4 people in your group that have to deal with you might care

Having 1 competent healing power/boon orientated guardian per 5 man group makes runs smoother and faster in most situations, in my experience.

I would certainly recommend carrying a full berserker alternate set for the various dps-check mechanisms which do exist, but these aren’t as common as you seem to be implying.

icewyrm.5038:

Having 1 competent healing power/boon orientated guardian per 5 man group makes runs smoother and faster in most situations, in my experience.

I would certainly recommend carrying a full berserker alternate set for the various dps-check mechanisms which do exist, but these aren’t as common as you seem to be implying.

I’m curious. What does a heal build look like? Like 0/0/10/30/30 using doge rolls and healing breeze? Added boon duration for regeneration and so VOR passive works on teammates?

I have never even thought about what a heal build consist of lol

Like this? http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNAW5elcgyC3EyMEg4ES2DRKBRQsHY0HtRXFSIA-jAyAoNBZqBE9JwZxioxW3KiGrqBTpSEV7SKiWdQAfD-e

If I want DPS I play Warrior.
If I want Support/Heals I play Guard.

And my heals HAVE saved my party members n high lvl fractals.
Good luck playing full glass cannon guard on 40+.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

icewyrm.5038:

Having 1 competent healing power/boon orientated guardian per 5 man group makes runs smoother and faster in most situations, in my experience.

I would certainly recommend carrying a full berserker alternate set for the various dps-check mechanisms which do exist, but these aren’t as common as you seem to be implying.

I’m curious. What does a heal build look like? Like 0/0/10/30/30 using doge rolls and healing breeze? Added boon duration for regeneration and so VOR passive works on teammates?

I have never even thought about what a heal build consist of lol

Like this? http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNAW5elcgyC3EyMEg4ES2DRKBRQsHY0HtRXFSIA-jAyAoNBZqBE9JwZxioxW3KiGrqBTpSEV7SKiWdQAfD-e

I think that is too extreme. Even with all of those healing skills you still wouldn’t be able to be a traditional healer anyway.

Anyhow, Anet obviously disagrees with everyone about cleric set on guardian. Zealous Blade now scales with healing power, Pure of Hearts scaling with healing power has been buffed. They are telling us, go healing power if you want the most out of guardian.

Nick.6972:

If I want DPS I play Warrior.
If I want Support/Heals I play Guard.

And my heals HAVE saved my party members n high lvl fractals.
Good luck playing full glass cannon guard on 40+.

I play full zerker at 49. Only change you need to make is take a hammer.

Reflections, aegis, blinds and dodge make up a very high amount of damage mitigation /healing. By going cleric you increase healing which was never a large factor in survivability anyway.. But trade away a huge amount of damage .

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

I’m curious. What does a heal build look like? Like 0/0/10/30/30 using doge rolls and healing breeze? Added boon duration for regeneration and so VOR passive works on teammates?

Yeah, basically. Without food or the hp signet you heal the party for around 700 health a second from shared resolve, symbol healing and permanent regeneration on mace assuming you are stacked in melee.

I don’t have the game in front of me atm, but iirc also you heal your party for around 6k (see correction from aza) from healing breeze, 1500 from dodge rolls, and 580 or so every time you finish your mace auto attack chain, as well as 2k or so each from staff 2 and 4 and shield 5. You have very high protection uptime from your shield 4, hold the line and voc. You swap to staff whenever you can to build might stacks and due to the boon duration there isn’t much downtime on them.

I prefer to bring boon duration runes (i’m +75% in my clerics gear) rather than pure HP ones personally for high uptime on stability, protection, retaliation, vigor etc as well.

I obviously swap utilities and traits a fair bit depending on the fight so there’s no fixed set up I can link from a build site.

icewyrm.5038:

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

I’m curious. What does a heal build look like? Like 0/0/10/30/30 using doge rolls and healing breeze? Added boon duration for regeneration and so VOR passive works on teammates?

Yeah, basically. Without food or the hp signet you heal for around 700 health a second from shared resolve, symbol healing and permanent regeneration on mace. You bring boon duration roons (i’m icewyrm@gmail.com

I don’t have the game in front of me atm, but iirc you heal your party for around for 3k from healing breeze, 1500 from dodge rolls, and 500

Healing breeze tool tip is bugged.

It actually heals allies for around 6.3k with high healing power.

Exactly. Use other forms of negating damage (blocks/protection/reflects) which don’t kitten your dps. and I pug fractals 30-40 using full zerk s/f fine, if i were to do 40+ would just swap to hammer and all would be good. You don’t have to kitten out on any dps on a guard and still support well (20 in virtues does wonders)

swiftpaw.6397:

Nick.6972:

If I want DPS I play Warrior.
If I want Support/Heals I play Guard.

And my heals HAVE saved my party members n high lvl fractals.
Good luck playing full glass cannon guard on 40+.

I play full zerker at 49. Only change you need to make is take a hammer.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Viability-Of-Cleric-Gear/first

obal.3218:

swiftpaw.6397:

Nick.6972:

If I want DPS I play Warrior.
If I want Support/Heals I play Guard.

And my heals HAVE saved my party members n high lvl fractals.
Good luck playing full glass cannon guard on 40+.

I play full zerker at 49. Only change you need to make is take a hammer.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Viability-Of-Cleric-Gear/first

Ah this explains so much Obal -_-
Knew I’d seen this person before somewhere lol.

I can simplify this argument a bit, I think.

Have you ever used your heal skill? Do you ever use your heal skill in fractals or elsewhere?

If the answer is no then your argument of “healing power is bad” is valid. If the answer is yes then you need to rethink your viewpoint on this, because guardians have the best access to party wide healing power related skills and ratios in the game.

If you see an elitist today give them a hug because they rely on playing a video game for the sake of their self-esteem and they need to know that they valuable because they are a human being, and not because of their race, class, or crafting profession.

(>‘-’)>

(jk)

Painbow.6059:

I’m sorry but it’s the fact that clerics think they are helping people when they are actually gimping everyone else in the groups survival and taking forever to do anything

You’re not only sorry, you’re wrong. Cleric’s increases everyone’s survival. It just doesn’t matter because survival is not an issue in the first place so all that matters is how fast your run is.

And please don’t bother with the “shorter fights mean less errors” argument. If your group is making so many errors that a 20% longer fight means they’ll make one that wipes the group, there are bigger issues than someone in cleric’s gear.

You know that comedic thing cartoon characters do when they peel their eyelids down their face in frustration at how ridiculous something is?

I just did it… And now I need to see a doctor.

Yaki.9563:

Painbow.6059:

I’m sorry but it’s the fact that clerics think they are helping people when they are actually gimping everyone else in the groups survival and taking forever to do anything

You’re not only sorry, you’re wrong. Cleric’s increases everyone’s survival. It just doesn’t matter because survival is not an issue in the first place so all that matters is how fast your run is.

And please don’t bother with the “shorter fights mean less errors” argument. If your group is making so many errors that a 20% longer fight means they’ll make one that wipes the group, there are bigger issues than someone in cleric’s gear.

The fact of the matter is that whenever you have someone in full clerics gear trying to help “group” survivability is a problem with the build that accompanies it. Most guards that run clerics gear in dungeons also run 30 into valor which is by far doing nothing at all to help group survivability. Sure maybe if they run battle presence AND absolute resolution they are getting somewhere, however this is usually not the case… at all. Zerker dps guardians not only never touch valor they are bringing the same boons but more blinds more vulnerability and have better damage modifiers….

Also having a Cleric’s person can screw with mobs aggro tables when you run a group of full zerkers the bosses rotate who they are aggroed on. IF the boss aggros on the person doing the highest DPS then it is one more person they completely ignore there by limiting who they aggor on. If the boss aggros on toughness then that cleric person usually winds up dead on the floor.

So all in all go zerk or knights/zerk combo. Cleric’s is useless in dungeons. i can understand adjusting your BUILD, but your gear should never be cleric guard in dungeons.

Can’t cleric gear users gain access to blinds, vulnerability and damage modifiers too?

Aza.2105:

Can’t cleric gear users gain access to blinds, vulnerability and damage modifiers too?

In order to trait to get those damage modifiers you’re gimping your build. Even though the build is suboptimal in PvE the trait synergy still makes sense. link to build

Finnway.2183:

Aza.2105:

Can’t cleric gear users gain access to blinds, vulnerability and damage modifiers too?

In order to trait to get those damage modifiers you’re gimping your build. Even though the build is suboptimal in PvE the trait synergy still makes sense. link to build

You went into valor and didnt take strength in numbers? O.o

^^^^ My mistake /fixed

Finnway.2183:

Aza.2105:

Can’t cleric gear users gain access to blinds, vulnerability and damage modifiers too?

In order to trait to get those damage modifiers you’re gimping your build. Even though the build is suboptimal in PvE the trait synergy still makes sense. link to build

Would it be better to just pick up mace of justice to get +5% dmg and +250 healing power? And use points that you would put into honor else were?

A boss who aggros based on toughness will aggro based on toughness whether it comes from clerics or knights. A boss who aggros based on crit damage will keep going for that guy with the highest stat until he decides not to anymore which in GW2 is generally any time they please or when the player is downed or dead.

I don’t personally know anyone who runs valor in clerics though I’m sure they exist – most people I know run it in zerkers for the crit damage.

Finnway.2183:

^^^^ My mistake /fixed

In any case the valor points are somewhat wasted…… the 150 toughness+honorable shield really only synergizes well for you… In certain situations yes shield is better but focus is usually the better off hand thanks to the blast finisher blind and condi clear.
You are better off putting 20 into radiance which gives you some vulnerability reduced CD on your signet heal, and some pretty sweet blinds on vuln (if you go 20) or you could go 15 in and put 5 points on any one of several other lines for the minor bonuses.

Aza.2105:

Would it be better to just pick up mace of justice to get +5% dmg and +250 healing power? And use points that you would put into honor else were?

Honor is the core of the build. You need it for Writ of the Merciful and Battle Presence. If you’re not going to go into Honor why are you running Cleric?

The mace trait might be better, but shield skills have a longer cooldown so I picked that instead.

Finnway.2183:

Aza.2105:

Would it be better to just pick up mace of justice to get +5% dmg and +250 healing power? And use points that you would put into honor else were?

Honor is the core of the build. You need it for Writ of the Merciful and Battle Presence. If you’re not going to go into Honor why are you running Cleric?

The mace trait might be better, but shield skills have a longer cooldown so I picked that instead.

250 healing is no joke when you are in a healing build… The bigger question is why are you running cleric in pve in general though?

jportell.2197:

In any case the valor points are somewhat wasted…… the 150 toughness+honorable shield really only synergies well for you… In certain situations yes shield is better but focus is usually the better off hand thanks to the blast finisher blind and condi clear.

Yes, I know focus is better, but I don’t run Healway so don’t need to defend it.

You are better off putting 20 into radiance which gives you some vulnerability reduced CD on your signet heal, and some pretty sweet blinds on vuln (if you go 20) or you could go 15 in and put 5 points on any one of several other lines for the minor bonuses.

But if you change trait-lines too much the whole build falls apart and it’s not long a “min/max healing spec” anymore which is why people run it. A lot of things are more optimal but if someone cares about optimization they aren’t using this build to begin with.

Finnway.2183:

jportell.2197:

In any case the valor points are somewhat wasted…… the 150 toughness+honorable shield really only synergies well for you… In certain situations yes shield is better but focus is usually the better off hand thanks to the blast finisher blind and condi clear.

Yes, I know focus is better, but I don’t run Healway so don’t need to defend it.

You are better off putting 20 into radiance which gives you some vulnerability reduced CD on your signet heal, and some pretty sweet blinds on vuln (if you go 20) or you could go 15 in and put 5 points on any one of several other lines for the minor bonuses.

But if you change trait-lines too much the whole build falls apart and it’s not long a “min/max healing spec” anymore which is why people run it. A lot of things are more optimal but if someone cares about optimization they aren’t using this build to begin with.

So the big question is why use this build to begin with? Its not useful in PvE at all… Not open world not dungeons not fractals…. That 20 points in valor would be so much more useful in any other line… especially if you are taking the sheild trait.

Finnway.2183:

Aza.2105:

Would it be better to just pick up mace of justice to get +5% dmg and +250 healing power? And use points that you would put into honor else were?

Honor is the core of the build. You need it for Writ of the Merciful and Battle Presence. If you’re not going to go into Honor why are you running Cleric?

The mace trait might be better, but shield skills have a longer cooldown so I picked that instead.

Well its 250 free healing power points, without having to go into honor. So technically it frees up a lot of points that could be put else where. Despite the shield having long cooldowns, I don’t feel the trait its worth it. But that is just my opinion.

Do you feel there are other alternatives to healing through honor? There is faithful strike, which provides a neat party heal and scales relatively well with healing power and there symbol of faith, virtue of resolve (active) and healing breeze.

jportell.2197:

[snip]

Aza.2105:

Well its 250 free healing power points, without having to go into honor. So technically it frees up a lot of points that could be put else where.

Do you feel there are other alternatives to healing through honor? There is faithful strike, which provides a neat party heal and scales relatively well with healing power and there symbol of faith, virtue of resolve (active) and healing breeze.

As I already said above, I personally don’t run the build, but the idea of it is a min/max healing spec. You don’t just go into Honor for the healing you also go into it for Writ of The Merciful and Battle Presence.

I feel like this build is only good for fulling the fantasy of playing a Cleric archetype and if you’re going to change it around why would you use it at all? Just go full Berserker instead, but a Healway Guardian won’t run Berserker anyways…

What’s the maximum damage you can shell out with Berserker Guardian with a pug team using GS 3? For a short period of time I was running Berserker gear, damage still was much more inferior to my glass cannon Thief or Warrior.

Nick.6972:

What’s the maximum damage you can shell out with Berserker Guardian with a pug team using GS 3? For a short period of time I was running Berserker gear, damage still was much more inferior to my glass cannon Thief or Warrior.

GS3 is a leap and not meant to do too much damage and guardians can hit 49k whirling wraths on certain mobs in Arah which while not warrior and thief dps it is very high while still bringing more party protection regen stability and condi clear.

Yes, my mistake, the spin attack.
And that’s Arah. My warrior 100b is still more effective in nearly all places.

Nick.6972:

What’s the maximum damage you can shell out with Berserker Guardian with a pug team using GS 3?

I don’t.. I don’t understand why it’s come to this.

Ok, I assume you mean Whirling Wrath. One single skill does not equal entire dps for the class. A warrior that sits on greatsword and only uses Hundred blades and gs auto attacks is poor.

Also, just because you can do more dps on a warrior doesn’t excuse you from doing no dps on guardian. You can maintain some excellent dps on guardian while still providing support in full zerker gear, along with vulnerability and blinds. I suggest you look into the one handed sword.

Here is the build thread, much of the damage scales from traits which you may have missed. If you were only using greatsword for dps on a guardian you very well may have been doing some poor dps.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Guide-DPS-Guardian-for-PVE/first

if you AND your group (guess what, it IS group content!) can survive just fine with more DPS, while still being able to provide extremly effective support, then why the heck wouldn’t you?

kill faster, less heals needed, just the right amount of support, everyone alive. i don’t see any harm done in that equation.

So basically, just play a warrior?

Almost 2014 and somebody hasn’t realized yet that DPS trumps all the Gw2 PvE, Guardian subforum still plenty of threads praising Cleric healers/tanks saving parties.

/idon’twanttoliveonthisplanetanymore

I am sad.