Guild Wars 2

When you shrek so badly in WvW duels and 1vX’s, that someone asks if you’re a Zerker Guard. Nope, just a mostly Cleric Guard with some build making skills XD

I love Theorycrafting…

Edit: The hate is strong with this thread. Go away if you want to post without reading the following short novel. This thread was made for those who are battling with making their own builds and maybe need some inspiration as a push.

This post is virtually useless unless you’re going to share the build.

This post is useless even if you’re sharing the build.

The point is to show people that Meta’s are actually useless. Only a few people actually experiment. Most people search, ‘GW2 Guardian Roaming Build’ and pick something on the first page. This is why the ‘good’ builds become bad because they are everywhere and they become easy to learn how to counter. It’s the same way a Guardian shouldn’t just pack toughness OR condition removal, because you don’t know if you’ll be fighting a Hammer/GS Warrior or a Sword/Longbow Warrior. Builds need adaptability, and therefore ingenuity. By just giving my build I would be guilty of contributing to what I despise.

Also, I just posted this to show that Hybrid builds are viable, and all the trolls who say ‘lolz Guard can’t dps moskeeytows’ don’t actually know what they are talking about.

Spending 20G on a new set of gear to test a theory isn’t bad either, now that most people are running around with expensive skins and legendaries anyways.

There’s a reason why people use “meta” builds, it’s because they are the best. It’s that simple. You can try to be hipster and edgy by trying something “new”. I hate to break it to you, the game has been out over two years, and pretty much every Guardian build imaginable has been thoroughly tested. Sure those unorthodox builds can work, but it doesn’t make them good.

Also by not sharing your build you just show what you really are. I agree with the other two posters, useless thread.

Builds in this game aren’t exactly hard. After picking the role you want, most of the (actually viable) traits become useless.

We shouldn’t pretend building is hard or that it requires significant amounts of skill or that by using an established build you are bad.

Meta builds become meta for a reason: because they are consistently successful. Experimental builds generally work in more narrow situations or counter specific builds but are weak against others. The rare case they are actually better than a meta build, they become a meta build.

And if you have fun experimenting: by all means. I also enjoy some experimentation in sPvP and maybe we should have a post grouping that sort of builds. But please don’t imply people are bad or stupid because they don’t experiment.

Tiibags Tyler.3125:

When you shrek so badly in WvW duels and 1vX’s, that someone asks if you’re a Zerker Guard. Nope, just a mostly Cleric Guard with some build making skills XD

I love Theorycrafting…

Empty Words no Video no build it never happen what u said

Ynna.8769:

Builds in this game aren’t exactly hard. After picking the role you want, most of the (actually viable) traits become useless.

We shouldn’t pretend building is hard or that it requires significant amounts of skill or that by using an established build you are bad.

Meta builds become meta for a reason: because they are consistently successful. Experimental builds generally work in more narrow situations or counter specific builds but are weak against others. The rare case they are actually better than a meta build, they become a meta build.

And if you have fun experimenting: by all means. I also enjoy some experimentation in sPvP and maybe we should have a post grouping that sort of builds. But please don’t imply people are bad or stupid because they don’t experiment.

I never said anyone was bad or stupid; skill or intelligence has nothing to do with it. I’m just saying that my favorite part of GW2 was starting as a low level, having no idea what’s is going on. Everything was strange and interesting. So was WvW. Now it’s like, ‘oh wow, another HS spam Zerker thief’. But once in a while, I get really excited, because it isn’t a Zerker thief and the fight is epic! Sometimes the thief is somehow squishier yet can do INSANE amounts of damage, and sometimes they gracefully move around the battlefield employing range and melee perfectly, like an elf from the LOTR movies. This is what I enjoy in WvW; diversity. Without it, I would have stopped playing GW2 and many other games much earlier. It’s why Dark Souls 2 PvP is so popular. I just love to see people take the time to think of the best build for THEM. Not even a trait setup, I mean stats too.

Harbinger.8637:

There’s a reason why people use “meta” builds, it’s because they are the best. It’s that simple. You can try to be hipster and edgy by trying something “new”. I hate to break it to you, the game has been out over two years, and pretty much every Guardian build imaginable has been thoroughly tested. Sure those unorthodox builds can work, but it doesn’t make them good.

Also by not sharing your build you just show what you really are. I agree with the other two posters, useless thread.

What! I can’t stand hipsters! I’m not saying, ‘OMG, so mianstream’, I’m just expressing my opinion that build diversity has decreased. Maybe it’s not the players fault, maybe the player is being pressured because of all the kittens saying that, for example, only Zerk Warriors are useful in dungeons, that people only try using Zerk Wariors. It’s all the elitists that think they’re the best that I don’t like. If you’re a casual and all you want to do is use a simple tried and tested build, I have no problem with that, but people who like to experiment are in short supply.

Tiibags Tyler.3125:

Harbinger.8637:

There’s a reason why people use “meta” builds, it’s because they are the best. It’s that simple. You can try to be hipster and edgy by trying something “new”. I hate to break it to you, the game has been out over two years, and pretty much every Guardian build imaginable has been thoroughly tested. Sure those unorthodox builds can work, but it doesn’t make them good.

Also by not sharing your build you just show what you really are. I agree with the other two posters, useless thread.

What! I can’t stand hipsters! I’m not saying, ‘OMG, so mianstream’, I’m just expressing my opinion that build diversity has decreased. Maybe it’s not the players fault, maybe the player is being pressured because of all the kittens saying that, for example, only Zerk Warriors are useful in dungeons, that people only try using Zerk Wariors. It’s all the elitists that think they’re the best that I don’t like. If you’re a casual and all you want to do is use a simple tried and tested build, I have no problem with that, but people who like to experiment are in short supply.

Elitists (at least in this subsection) don’t think they’re the best. Its simply giving out the most accurate advice possible. When someone comes here asking a question, you want to give them the best advice possible, it’s how the community grows and becomes better. These “meta” builds are the most effective builds known at this time, so that’s what is going to be recommended. Don’t get me wrong experimentation is great, and should be encouraged. However, just because it’s new doesn’t mean it’s the best.

Also your initial post probably ruffled some feathers. There’s so substance at all, it’s pretty much, I’m the best and I have some top secret super build that’s all mine! Very egotistic, at least that’s how it came off to me.

You know I have the same exact feeling of satisfaction after some long hours/days/weeks of testing and theory crafting when i do find the build i was aiming for and it works great i feel good. Though i don’t post it on the forums with the intention of not sharing, it makes you kinda look like what Harbinger said.

The Meta is just something that works best currently until something better can be found. IMO Meta builds are discovered and proven builds that work, used as a main attraction or in many cases as a base/staple build for a determined game mode (Dueling, Roaming, WvW Group play, Spvp, etc). It isn’t hard to make a build, but it is hard to make builds that are deemed inefficient, and making them efficient or satisfying to play. In which case every online multiplayer game will have a meta.

I agree; Meta’s are Meta’s for a reason. I have no problem with that. And like I said earlier, I would share my build, but what’s the fun in that? I also do not believe I am the best player ever. I believe that I am good, yes, after much experience, and I am good. Yet I know there are a lot of people who are better. I do not believe my build is the best there is either; it’s just the best FOR ME, the person who designed it. My friends often ask me to make them builds, and I build it for them. I’ and my friends believe I am good at making builds, that are, different from others yet are at least as effective for them. For example, my Ranger friend could find a good balance between tanking and power/precision to do damage, and often found herself unable to run away and contribute to AoE damage. She also found her utilites rather boring. After trying many Meta’s, she told me this, I fired up Skill Editor, and made a solid Condi/Toughness build, utilizing traps. She loved it. That’s because it was for her.

Like I said earlier, I believe, after much practice and over enough Guard experience, that I am a good build maker. I believe everyone has the potential to become one too. I just found the experience heartwarming because it makes all my work worth it. I finally achieved what I set out to do 2 years ago. Does that make me egotistic? Only if ego is having pride in your work. Similar to your sig I assume? That also be considered egotistic,‘OMG I HAS 10 LEGENDARIES AND I’Z LVL 80" but it’s more than that. You are simply taking pride in your work and showing people that if you can get 10 legendaries, they can at least get one. It’s about inspiration, pride or ego, and there’s a very fine line between them.

I have seen many people try making their own builds and almost give up so quickly. Yet I have seen amazing results too; two ele’s that I worked with to kill 10-15 people, really tanky/DPS warrior buddies who could 2vx up to about 5 people, and my Guardian friend, who asked me for my build and stats, because he alos wanted to become a tank/DPS hybrid, turned it into something unique, and we then had a lot of fun biting off more than we could chew XD I even have one of the fights we did on YouTube. I included a lot of my own deaths too, because it’s realistic. If I were egotistic I would not have done this.

Oh, and I know these ‘experimental builds’ are automatically deemed ‘only good in certain situations’, however, this i not something I threw together in 5 seconds, It is the product of 2 years of testing other meta’s and my own builds, finding my own sweetspot for stats. This does not make me egotistic does it? Most

Also, when I say Elitist, I’m not implying the two previous posters are elitist, I mean that people who think there is only one viable build in the game, and that it’s theirs. Anet did a good job at making interesting traits, completely disproving these people.

I am not forcing my opinion onto others, but please, for the love of god, don’t do the same. This post was meant for those who tried so hard, yet succeeded, and for those still trying.

Tiibags Tyler.3125:

snip

It’s great that you take pride in what you do and enjoy building, however maybe next time you should reevaluate your initial post. It was pretty much useless with zero substance and meaning. If it was articulated better (like your later posts), this thread wouldn’t have turned out this way.

Harbinger.8637:

Tiibags Tyler.3125:

snip

It’s great that you take pride in what you do and enjoy building, however maybe next time you should reevaluate your initial post. It was pretty much useless with zero substance and meaning. If it was articulated better (like your later posts), this thread wouldn’t have turned out this way.

I agree

Y’know, you could always go back and edit that initial post. A lot of people forget they can do that.

Anyway, I always create my own builds. Sometimes, it ends up being very similar to the meta, sometimes its way off, but its something I can afford with 12+ character slots. Generally when I build, I build conceptually. I see a specific mechanic that I’d like to accentuate. Before reading this thread I was just thinking of how to make an aegis build for guardians. What I came up with, a Condi and Power build, I don’t think I could really ever share of the forums. One of the problems I see, is a very caustic attitude to anything not “Meta”. In practice, the Meta isn’t even what’s best, but rather what’s popular. I mean, its perfectly fine if someone walks into the forum and asks, “What’s the best roaming build?”, the community can then give an answer. But lets just say that our friend OP here wants to show off his build that isn’t “Meta”. Why do we rail on him for not conforming, or maybe making different trait/gear choices? (I’m not complaining about the comments in this thread specifically, so don’t take it that way). I guess I’m just a little unhappy with the actions of the community here. If you have some kid that tries to argue with some math that’s been put out, then maybe the fiery attitude is warranted, but when someone says “I’ve got a nifty build”, or “I need to make a build with these restrictions”, can’t we just be happy for them or actually help within their restrictions? (Note that I don’t consider, “I’m frustrated with ignorance” as a valid reason, as you could always not post, and your frustration would never be spread).

Maybe I’ve just tried to hijack the thread, going somewhat off-topic with my own frustration, but I think our community could stand to be a little more… graceful when it comes to the not-meta.

So you’re playing some empowering might chance ah build, maybe with some radiance investment for the dps, or something like that. Wow, you’re so special. I don’t run the optimal meta builds in www roaming, but every good build was already made, theorycrafted, and experimented, with minor personal differences. You’re ranting on the meta telling everyone how special and good you are, but guess what? If your build is that great, you’re not the only one playing it, and if it’s clearly superior, it’ll become meta.

ye whatever, I bet you are thoroughly average and shrek nothing.

oxtred.7658:

So you’re playing some empowering might chance ah build, maybe with some radiance investment for the dps, or something like that. Wow, you’re so special. I don’t run the optimal meta builds in www roaming, but every good build was already made, theorycrafted, and experimented, with minor personal differences. You’re ranting on the meta telling everyone how special and good you are, but guess what? If your build is that great, you’re not the only one playing it, and if it’s clearly superior, it’ll become meta.

Oh boy! No EM or AH, no Radiance. Every good build might have been made, but that doesn’t mean everybody knows about it. I’m not sharing it for a reason, I don’t want another Meta. I wouldn’t share anything a have spent so much time on with people like you. Oh and ‘guess what?’ Either I AM skilled, or my build is good, or both. I can’t win the majority of 1v1’s and many 1v2’s, and be a valuable player in PvP, PvE and WvW without either of these qualities. I never said it was clearly superior. I said it was the best for ME.

TrOtskY.5927:

ye whatever, I bet you are thoroughly average and shrek nothing.

Look at what I just typed.

Y’know, you could always go back and edit that initial post. A lot of people forget they can do that.

Anyway, I always create my own builds. Sometimes, it ends up being very similar to the meta, sometimes its way off, but its something I can afford with 12+ character slots. Generally when I build, I build conceptually. I see a specific mechanic that I’d like to accentuate. Before reading this thread I was just thinking of how to make an aegis build for guardians. What I came up with, a Condi and Power build, I don’t think I could really ever share of the forums. One of the problems I see, is a very caustic attitude to anything not “Meta”. In practice, the Meta isn’t even what’s best, but rather what’s popular. I mean, its perfectly fine if someone walks into the forum and asks, “What’s the best roaming build?”, the community can then give an answer. But lets just say that our friend OP here wants to show off his build that isn’t “Meta”. Why do we rail on him for not conforming, or maybe making different trait/gear choices? (I’m not complaining about the comments in this thread specifically, so don’t take it that way). I guess I’m just a little unhappy with the actions of the community here. If you have some kid that tries to argue with some math that’s been put out, then maybe the fiery attitude is warranted, but when someone says “I’ve got a nifty build”, or “I need to make a build with these restrictions”, can’t we just be happy for them or actually help within their restrictions? (Note that I don’t consider, “I’m frustrated with ignorance” as a valid reason, as you could always not post, and your frustration would never be spread).

Maybe I’ve just tried to hijack the thread, going somewhat off-topic with my own frustration, but I think our community could stand to be a little more… graceful when it comes to the not-meta.

Wow, and here I thought I was all alone :’)

People’s fragile egos are showing in this thread, and I’m not talking about Tiibags.

Harbinger.8637:

There’s a reason why people use “meta” builds, it’s because they are the best. It’s that simple. You can try to be hipster and edgy by trying something “new”. I hate to break it to you, the game has been out over two years, and pretty much every Guardian build imaginable has been thoroughly tested. Sure those unorthodox builds can work, but it doesn’t make them good.

Also by not sharing your build you just show what you really are. I agree with the other two posters, useless thread.

That’s not true. I’ll use the ranger as an example. For a long time after launch the ranger was considered a terrible class. People wouldn’t bring them in any of their dungeon runs because they didn’t think rangers could contribute even close to another profession. This is at a time when rangers had quickness on pet swap, sword damage was the same as it is today, Frost Spirit was the same as today (minus some trait merges/swaps which give more freedom today but don’t alter the role of Frost Spirit) and Spotter gave 70 precision (instead of 150). Honestly, rangers were never that bad, their potential existed similar to today since launch but players never ran them because the meta didn’t evolve to a point where berserker swordlock was as safe as it is today and players blindly following and believing the nonsense of the meta ignorantly didn’t give rangers an objective chance in dungeons. Combined with more than double the vitality pets had at launch and an all zerker meta that favours the best defence as a good offence rangers became more viable, but the potential was there the whole time.

A meta is like an imaginary locked door – it’s a limitation the community creates that holds everyone back. Metas are good for helping to evolve the game and push how it’s played to the lowest common denominator (pushing the zerker meta) but when people view it as a rigid and strict set of rules that can’t ever be broken, the meta becomes incredibly damaging the the game and the community and it can even hinder how the game is played.

Guild Wars 2’s build tools are shallow enough to leave little room for creativity compared to GW1, but that doesn’t mean the current meta should be viewed as the infallible truth of what is optimal. Not only is there the possibility for untapped potential from long ago, new builds coming into favour because of major balance changes (ranger longbow buff) or counters to them are constantly evolving.

Rangers weren’t meta because ele were, just saying.

Metas do shift. It’s an important part of metas.

Although I feel that the shifting is pretty slow. In tPvP at least.

Thanks for the input to the last 4 posters. Some good points. I really like the imaginary locked door analogy XD