Guild Wars 2

For the longest time Anet has masqueraded the idea that they care about players think yet for the past 3 years now they have left broken or useless skills on the guardian. Now this is not a buff thread, I realize that guardians are in a “good spot” but that still doesn’t make up for the disappointment when patch after patch we just get nothing. For a while, I still had faith that Anet was going to come around and at least fix some of the long standing issues with the class especially with the announcement of the trait changes. But the trait changes only served to neuter some guardian damage, kill hammer medi guard, and open up a rather one dimensional burn guard build.

This thread is not about damage, this thread is about the fact today the warrior elite spec got self condi cleanse on torch, a QoL change that we have been asking for torch 5 since release pretty much. This is the final straw for me. All of the improvements we wanted are STILL being ignored even though this is one of the few times major overhauls to multiple skills is occurring.

Shield is still garbage.
Torch 5 is still garbage.
Scepter auto is still garbage
Longbow did not get projectile speed increase
Longbow 3,4 did not get functionality to shoot behind instead they gave random buffs to Symbol of Energy that I did not read in ANY feedback thread.
Wrath of Justice is still buggy with leaps (GS#3, Hammer#2)
Torch #4 gets obstructed in terrain that has no walls or elevation change.

There are probably many more I could list if I wanted but you get the idea. Some of these have been here since release, others were introduced during the specialization patch. The recent Dragonhunter beta changes are an even bigger insult as they ignore most of the issues that people actually spent time writing and are not even mentioned. (We want feedback yea right…)

The devs think we are idiots who do not know what we are even talking about. Most of the changes we want ARE NOT damage buffs which seems to be the only thing that Anet knows how to do. We want Quality of Life changes and I am even willing to get nerfed in damage (not that we already didnt get nerfed in trait changes) if it means that the skill feels rewarding to use.

I am not quitting the game or anything crazy but just pointing out that feedback is pointless so time to just sit back and let Anet flounder around until a better game comes along, they are not interested in improving GW2 or guardian at all.

I think it’s silly to propose that feedback no longer be given entirely, however I learned quite a long time ago that the dev team is very selective with which feedback they choose to pay attention to. Unfortunately, that related to Guardian players is not within such categories.

I hear ya Devil. But I kind of have to disagree. Having personally seen things talked about the in forum and then implemented into the game I cant join Team No Feedback. I’ll agree that way to much stuff got put on the back burner, but I honestly believe its more a victim of circumstance than Devs intentionally leaving stuff to fail.

Take the shield for example. Its always been a bit crummy, but before these recent patches that Protection and knockback that it had was OK in comparison. I mean yeah it wasn’t anywheres near meta, but people could still use it with a clerics build without feeling completely nerfed(Overlooking the fact that nobody uses a clerics build for the most part). So it wasn’t on the “MUST BE FIXED NOW” list. So now all this fancy new stuff comes out and it highlights the functionality issues with old weapons. Ok so maybe now they decide to fix it. Buuuuut that takes awhile, they have a que of stuff work on. So basically we have to wait for it to hit rock bottom and then wait 6 months for it to get patched.
I’m not saying that’s a good way to go about things but I honestly believe its whats happening. And I can say I honestly do believe they look at the feedback

I was fine with nothing changing (sort of, I could accept it at least); I just wish things weren’t removed (tomes).

D: aw don’t worry mage. Tomes will come back they said.

….right after they update shield

;p

I think the only feedback they may have reacted to was people saying that the base virtues are better for backline support than the DH virtues. They responded to this by nerfing virtue range by 600, so, uh, I think I’ll stick to the no feedback team from now on. XD

ummm .. be helpful and constructive or go home .. A thread like this does absolutly NOTHING to help improve the matters. It’s antagonizing, it’s disrespectful, and it’s non-constructive. If you hate guardian so much , there are 8 other classes to play. Be useful or be silent.

ps : Please read this before making such threads: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/How-to-Give-Good-Feedback/first#post3383470

Edit: What you have here is a rant not feedback. Example of decent feedback: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Dragonhunter-Review-Revisions-Long/first#post5396026 .. the devs specified how feedback should be given and when feedback should be given. If you don’t follow the guidelines, it’s kinda like screaming at a deaf person and being frustrated that they’re not listening wjen they’ve already told you to use sign language.

ummm .. be helpful and constructive or go home ..

That is the point, we HAVE been constructive… for THREE YEARS.

Patiently waiting providing mature very well written feedback and for THREE YEARS we are ignored.

Now with this latest Beta post by the devs not only have the once again ignored us they were deliberately RUDE to US.

At what point do we say enough is enough?

Clearly mature well written constructive feedback gets us no where.

Arnath.2319:

ummm .. be helpful and constructive or go home ..

That is the point, we HAVE been constructive… for THREE YEARS.

Patiently waiting providing mature very well written feedback and for THREE YEARS we are ignored.

Now with this latest Beta post by the devs not only have the once again ignored us they were deliberately RUDE to US.

At what point do we say enough is enough?

Clearly mature well written constructive feedback gets us no where.

I hate to agree but I can’t help it. One thing a human being can give up and never get back is their time. A lot of us wasted a lot of -our time- trying to be helpful only to feel disrespected or ignored in return.

I did look at the Dev tracker and I saw a response under Tempest that I’m curious didn’t get repeated on the Guardian Subforum.

“Hey everyone.

Not all feedback could be addressed this iteration in fair part due to time constraints on key members of our design team. That does not mean we are dismissing your feedback or that all the issues you’ve raised up to this point will go unchanged before expansion release.

This is a small set of changes from the first beta weekend event; we will continue to iterate on the specialization skills and mechanics and shall be listening for your constructive feedback.

We will be reviewing the Tempest traits along with casttimes vs. effects on overloads among several other aspects of the elite specialization."

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Tempest-Changes-for-Next-BWE/page/2#post5391010

Again, some of my own personal time wasted trying to find reasons to justify being ignored.

Anyway. Just give us back tomes. xD

" Turn down the negative tone.
There’s a difference between being critical and being negative. Learn this difference and avoid the latter. Select words that show you’ve thought about the effects of the problem rather than simply presenting your gut reaction.
NO: “I can’t see around that ridiculous ball of puke-colored light.”
YES: “The light around this character obstructs the view from most camera angles and is an unpleasant shade of yellow.”

source https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/How-to-Give-Good-Feedback/first#post3383470

Reading through the guardian forums i can’t help but see 95% rants, yelling, screaming, stating that everything just “sucks” .. and 5% constructive… Now if i was having a conversation with you and the content of that conversation was 95% rants yelling screaming at me telling me i suck and that i should be fired, guess what, i wouldn’t be listening to those 5%.

To be respected you gotta show respect. To be heard, you gotta speak TO the person not AT them. I am a guardian .. and i ‘m frustrated by some things in the class and wish they’d be fixed. But i’m also a developer (not in anet) and i understand that cycle of feedback. What the guardian forum is filled with is NOT feedback. It’s yelling, screaming, ranting, saying that this thing or that thing “sucks”. Not providing non-emotional feedback. Go through the forums and you’ll see.. almost every single thread is cancerous and toxic.

People find it very easy to yell " this sucks, you suck, whoever came up with this should get fired, this is worthless, no point in this , why would you do it like this you morn, you should stop being stupid and do it my way… etc" .. i think you get my point ..

If you don’t like the direction of the class, if you’ve been frustrated and did all your “ranting” and childsh screaming o nthe forums and feel ignored (as any annoying little child screaming, yelling, and kicking would be ignored) then i invite to go to these classes that you deem are getting better feedback recognition (in your eyes) .. there are 8 other classes. You’re not stuck with the “broken” class or the “ignorant” devs of a class as you like to call them (an opinion i disagree with) .. Heck if you don’t like the approch of any class, by all means go play another mmo.. You’ve “tried” to give your feedback .. you’re not heard .. leave this “kittenty” game and go somewhere else. I don’t know what to tell ya. If it tastes bad, stop drinking it :/

The fact the players are STILL giving feedback (or at least what they think is feedback) even after the 3 years period within the so called “feedback-ignorant enviroment” that you you’re saying the devs created .. this tells me anet is doing something right .. if it was a lost cause, a hopeless manner, wouldn’t the forums be dead silent ? ..

again i say it .. if you don’t like the taste, go have another flavor (another class or another game entirely) .. you’re in control of that. Stop ranting like a child who sounds like he has absolutly no power of what’s happening to him :/ (not talking about you personally. talking about the general ranter here)

apologies for the rant .. but these kind of threads seriously get on my nerves after watching cancerous posts people are making. No wonder we’re not being taken seriously .. 95% of us are acting very childsh and immature .. there comes a piont where the devs would say “f it” ..

Your feedback is NOT GUARANTEED to be implemented. No where on earth did it ever say they will give you what you’re asking for to the dot. The feedback is taken UNDER CONSIDERATION. Nothing more, nothing less. If it follows the direction THEY’re of the systems THEY’re developing, then they MIGHT make an executive decision to spend CAPITAL to implemnt the changes. If YOUR feedback does not following the direction THEY envision for THEIR OWN product, they simply won’t implement it. I’ts product. If you don’t like it, don’t use it. Go right a review discourgaing people from using it.. From your prespective : If you’ve given a well constructed feedback and didn’t get listened to for 3 years, you think ranting like that would make a differerence ?? it’s like a kid that tried to weezle his way with his parents to make logic as to why what he wants makes sense (even when it doesn’t) and when it failed, he starts banging his head against the wall and knocking things around the house because in his eyes that will make him heard .. i’m sorry to say that’s childish behaviour and will not be taken seriously. You’ll only generate salt,more salt , and infinite salt in a lot of words that goes for ages but nothing will change by this kind of bahaviour.

wrote too much .. too lazy to spell check.. I’m gonna eat something,. Laters

A couple of quotes :

“This isn’t about “you.”
Insults and attacks have no place in your feedback. Your comments should always be about the work itself. People found to be openly antagonistic or rude in their feedback may receive infractions. Repeated offenses can negatively affect your forum account with punishments up to and including temporary suspensions or a permanent ban.
NO: “If you can’t see how this isn’t fun, then you’re stupid.”
NO: “Whoever designed this [particular feature] should be fired.” "

Sarcasm in text is never sarcastic.
It doesn’t matter how many smileys you include or how many words are italicized, sarcasm doesn’t work for conveying feedback. It will either be misread or interpreted as an insult. Write down exactly what you mean, not the opposite.
NO: “The fire effect is super impressive. It’s the most amazing fire I’ve ever seen. Really.”
YES: “The fire effect could be more impressive if it was larger and if it shimmered more.”

Hyperbole is the worst possible thing in the whole world.
Use measured language, particularly when explaining your dislike for something. Conversely, if you love something, you can say so without excessive fanboyism. Whether positive or negative, if your feedback is overly hyperbolic, the recipient will quickly learn that you aren’t serious or can’t accurately gauge quality.
NO: “The art for that makes me want to gouge out my eyes.”
NO: “I’m so amazed by that model, I just want to quit my job and worship in the art department.”

No one knows best.
Avoid taking an inflexible position or positioning yourself as the authority. Proposals should be accepted on their merits and practicality. Disagreements should be settled after careful consideration. Using forceful, pretentious language hurts your point. If your argument is “You need to do it my way because I know best,” then we probably won’t because it seems you don’t.
NO: “I’ve played games like this since I was ten. Trust me: you have to include polearms.”
YES: “In games I’ve played with polearms, I’ve enjoyed the variety they provided in attack speed and length. I think we could use that.”

So what you’re saying is it’s okay to go on threads and gripe about others griping but they can’t gripe themselves? Telling others to go read on how to do something while you proceed to do the opposite? Come on now. This isn’t going to get any of us anywhere.

Let’s focus on why we don’t want to test or give feedback. Let’s explain ourselves. It doesn’t have to follow some guide on how to give feedback because we aren’t robots. BUT. It should be constructive. Rants / Raves aside. Ask yourselves when you’re posting if what you are saying is going to DO anything productive. If not, just delete. It can be a rant as long as you also provide a solution that is reasonable. We aren’t toddlers wanting candy at the grocery store. Mmmkayy?

We need a lot less white knighting, clutter, and cry baby junk floating around here.

ON TOPIC – I will continue to give feedback when I feel like I’m testing something that’s worth testing. These results from last beta are not exactly what was broken so I don’t feel I need to put any further input into it until more changes occur.

You must either be new or just sleeping for the last three years. The forums did not become this way over night, there were very lengthy constructive posts that detailed what how we wanted things to change. All of them were ignored. Stuff like changes to shield were here since launch for christs sake. Nowhere in the post do I insult the devs, instead we are the ones who feel insulted after dedicating time to try and improve something we like and not even getting a glance.

And your last point is 100% incorrect, no one knows best but the players are who should at least give guidance to whether or not something feels good. Again damage is something that should be taken with a grain of salt from players as everyone wants to be the strongest but we have been asking for QoL changes just so we can make use of the things guardian is supposed to have.

Ex. I cannot even attempt to use Wrath of Justice in my medi build for sPvP because the trait may not trigger correctly half the time and this can directly result in a lost fight or even death.

Ex. I have to take extra measures to throw my Zealot’s flame since it travels along the floor and even when I catch my opponent after a dodge it will miss due to being obstructed by nothing.

These kinds of events simply make the class unrewarding. We wanted changes to make the Longbow FEEL fun and anet just comes back with bigger damage numbers…
Anet has clearly shown that they think they know best. Feedback is irrelevant.

Pretty much what they said^.

x indigo x.6981:

ummm .. be helpful and constructive or go home ..

You do realize the op is essentially telling you, “yeah kitten it, go home”.

x indigo x.6981:

Reading through the guardian forums i can’t help but see 95% rants, yelling, screaming, stating that everything just “sucks” .. and 5% constructive… Now if i was having a conversation with you and the content of that conversation was 95% rants yelling screaming at me telling me i suck and that i should be fired, guess what, i wouldn’t be listening to those 5%.

It certainly hasn’t always been like that. 3 years’ worth of consistently being ignored despite a good portion of the feedback this forum has received being entirely constructive and perfectly reasonable is a great way to upset people.

The difference in feedback (in both magnitude from the players’ end and quality from the devs’ end) between the elite specs Robert Gee’s team is handling and the elite specs that Karl McLain’s team is handling is nearly polarizing. The devs need to earn the respect of the players, not the other way around, and Karl’s team clearly has not grasped onto such a concept well enough.

When we say Feedback to our dev, he thinks it’s a Mesmer skill and has to walk out of it, otherwise his well-received Longbow skills will shoot himself in the face. He does not understand that instead, he can create a Finisher out of our Feedback to make everything better.