Guild Wars 2

Universal condi changes and a strong trait have pushed torch into something resembling viability, but it’s still not a good off-hand. Not really.

I would suggest two small buffs to the weapon.

Zealot’s Flame

Now grants Swiftness (3 seconds) on initial activation.

This will help the Guardian to keep within range of their foe during this critical burn phase while granting them a brief burst of sustained mobility. Duration chosen to match the duration of the Zealot’s Flame buff.

Cleansing Flame

Now also removes conditions from the Guardian, though not at the same rate. This skill will remove one condition on activation and a second on completion.

The lack of self-cleansing was a needless restriction on the skill that really limited its self-utility. Full self-cleansing, on the other hand, would be excessive.

I don’t share the same concerns.

I’ve used Torch #4 to burst Mesmers fairly well, using that + Judge’s Intervention at the start of almost every engagement has been working out great. Considering they need to not just make a clone, but burst the clone and cleanse himself. When burn guardians become more meta, Mesmers will start running that transfer conditions trait then burn guards will need to change strat or meta’s entirely. (i’m Nostradamus’ing this)

Torch #5 replaces my Scepter #1 auto attack. Using it in conjunction with Smite #2, the burns stack up quite nicely. Cleansing other allies while they’re eating up Ele’s Fire Fields is a nice bonus.

I think it’s safe to say that the Torch is the Guardian’s condi weapon, even though that aspect didn’t show all that well prepatch. I can’t imagine it receiving a buff because I think it’s pretty strong where it’s at now, imho.

I think torch 4 is fine, but it could definitely use some fixing. Getting obstructed by literally nothing has gotten quite old.

Torch 5 is decent, but I wouldn’t be opposed to either upping the DPS a little or giving it some extra benefit, such as an extra condi removal or boon for the guardian. I’d be willing to take that even if it’d require an increased cooldown to compensate.

Torch is a good dps weapon with both Condi and Power builds. The only thing I really want fixed is #4 fireball toss and tracking, that’s what I think it really needs. Cleansing Fire is alright as well, (i’d be behind a buff for it too), ,I run it with sword, which gives me a mid ranged Cone AoE option for people running away from me and they’re out of AA range. I don’t really like the feel of it with scepter but people have found some success with it more power to them to run it.

As black box said torch 4 is fine, torch 5 is the thing that needs to be changed.

My vote would be to keep the over all damage more or less the same but reduce the cast time to 2 seconds.

If anything really needs changes though it’s the shield.

Completely agree with Ragnar here.

Shield needs the change. I love torch pretty much the way it is.

What about for PvE? Could someone make a decent dmg sword/torch build using, let’s say, knight’s/ rampager’s gear?

Black Box.9312:

I think torch 4 is fine, but it could definitely use some fixing. Getting obstructed by literally nothing has gotten quite old.

This has been driving me insane as well, for a 1200 range projectile, i dont expect it to go zooming by someone’s character and getting an obstructed message at less than 600.

I think the issue with it is the way the projectile travels, its not a shot like a rifle or arrow, it literally follows the terrain (down at least, which is annoying when trying to hit people above you), and i think the terrain itself is causing the issues even if its flat. Would be nice to see it switched like a normal projectile.

I one of most, have complained a lot of this weapon, but not any more. I tested with full carrion, now is not only fully viable, but can be powerful as well. The problem of #5 is only viable with at least 3 targets (the weapon cap), otherwise inviable. But at least now the #5 has some role.

Only the constant “obstructed” bug on #4 that must be fixed.

CandyHearts.6025:

Completely agree with Ragnar here.

Shield needs the change. I love torch pretty much the way it is.

Yep, I really hope they do some love to the shield. The CD reduction wasn’t enough. The #4 most of time is useless and bring nothing. Also the shield trait is awful, +180 to self vs +150 to nearby from strength in numbers, there are no reason to use this trait, the cd reduction (as previsious “buffs” shown, does nothing to make this weapon more viable).

I can’t share the concerns over torch. Not saying they are unfounded for those affected but for me it seems pretty freaking powerful. Even for a power build it has uses, and traited- that thing is a monster. So many people under-utilize that pulsing condi cleanse too. If keeping on your target is of concern, guard does have many immobilize options available as well as a teleport. But highly mobile classes like annoying nike warriors or clucker eles are just going to get away.

Throwing in an edit: I would love to see it remove at least 1 condi on activation for #5 for self. I don’t think we should get the full removal, but say you had blind on you, removing 1 condi on activate would fix that.

A single blind will be removed in the first of 10 attacks anyway. If we really need to have Cleansing Flame remove conditions from the caster, thru should just have conditions be removed every 3rd pulse. 3 from the caster, 3 from any allies in range.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Universal condi changes and a strong trait have pushed torch into something resembling viability, but it’s still not a good off-hand. Not really.

I would suggest two small buffs to the weapon.

Zealot’s Flame

Now grants Swiftness (3 seconds) on initial activation.

This will help the Guardian to keep within range of their foe during this critical burn phase while granting them a brief burst of sustained mobility. Duration chosen to match the duration of the Zealot’s Flame buff.

Cleansing Flame

Now also removes conditions from the Guardian, though not at the same rate. This skill will remove one condition on activation and a second on completion.

The lack of self-cleansing was a needless restriction on the skill that really limited its self-utility. Full self-cleansing, on the other hand, would be excessive.

Zealot’s Speed will finally make sense again!!!

imperial.4962:

What about for PvE? Could someone make a decent dmg sword/torch build using, let’s say, knight’s/ rampager’s gear?

Torch is the best offhand for PvE now. A sword/torch build? You can use the meta and replace Mace for Sword, but you still need to swap between GS and Sw/T because Sword on itself isn’t good enough.

Knight bring nothing to the build. It just sacrifice dps for personal surviability. If you need that, go ahead, but each piece will decrease your efficiency. Rampager is a condition gear, hybrid don’t seem to be a good idea now, since base condition was nerfed. I didn’t test it, but ramager seem to be a terrible idea since you have zero or almost zero condition on crits with a condi Guards. It’s all skills or on hits, not a crits. So precision won’t be as usefull as engineer for exemple. So sinister will be better than rampager.

Thaddeus.4891:

imperial.4962:

What about for PvE? Could someone make a decent dmg sword/torch build using, let’s say, knight’s/ rampager’s gear?

Torch is the best offhand for PvE now. A sword/torch build? You can use the meta and replace Mace for Sword, but you still need to swap between GS and Sw/T because Sword on itself isn’t good enough.

Knight bring nothing to the build. It just sacrifice dps for personal surviability. If you need that, go ahead, but each piece will decrease your efficiency. Rampager is a condition gear, hybrid don’t seem to be a good idea now, since base condition was nerfed. I didn’t test it, but ramager seem to be a terrible idea since you have zero or almost zero condition on crits with a condi Guards. It’s all skills or on hits, not a crits. So precision won’t be as usefull as engineer for exemple. So sinister will be better than rampager.

I agree.

If you’re fighting single target NPC’s, burns can’t out damage power builds unless you Whirling Wrath inside Purging Flames, of which, is a combo that’s used once every 35s/28s.

3+ minions, yes, conditions can out damage power builds 3x over but how many bosses have 3 minions you can attack consistently?

True. But tbh, the difference in dps isn’t that high depending on the situation. For fight like Lupi, it’s only 2-3%, but for the majority it’s more like 16-8% depending on the situation & build.

In dungeon like SE where you need 2 utilities, it doesn’t really make sense or CoE where it’s all about small boss. But for dungeon like TA and Arah where you have a lot of trash mobs and large bosses, condi guardian is pretty good, even better than power guardian.

Anyway. It’s just nice that we have now more good option for dungeon.

The main thing I don’t understand or what bugs the hell out of me with the Torch is that it doesn’t burn anything #4 sets you on fire, and #5 only does damage not burning damage…makes no sense

Zepher.7803:

The main thing I don’t understand or what bugs the hell out of me with the Torch is that it doesn’t burn anything #4 sets you on fire, and #5 only does damage not burning damage…makes no sense

Because the burning is intended to come from Justice’s passive effect. Thats 2 burn stacks untraited, 3 if you trait virtues, and even more if you have multiple targets in the line (since the attacks hit up to 3 targets, and VoJ accumulates on “hits” = 5 burn stacks untraited, and if traited thats 9 burn stacks on ALL 3 targets). Thats a lot of burn stacks.

Zepher.7803:

The main thing I don’t understand or what bugs the hell out of me with the Torch is that it doesn’t burn anything #4 sets you on fire, and #5 only does damage not burning damage…makes no sense

Torch #4 burns nearby enemies when you activate it (1 stack for 3 seconds) and burns your target when you throw it (3 stacks for 3 seconds)

All I want is to occasionally shout “Shoryuken!” when I throw torch #4, and I will be happy.

(I’m just kidding. I’m already happy with the torch.)

I really enjoy torch with my scepter.

Just sick of the obstruction that it always finds a way to hit on a flat open area.

Skill 5 I rarely use though. Only to tag mobs mostly.

Cirian.8917:

All I want is to occasionally shout “Shoryuken!” when I throw torch #4, and I will be happy.

(I’m just kidding. I’m already happy with the torch.)

I think you’re looking for “Hadouken!”

Quarktastic.1027:

Zepher.7803:

The main thing I don’t understand or what bugs the hell out of me with the Torch is that it doesn’t burn anything #4 sets you on fire, and #5 only does damage not burning damage…makes no sense

Torch #4 burns nearby enemies when you activate it (1 stack for 3 seconds) and burns your target when you throw it (3 stacks for 3 seconds)

skill 5 should burn that whole magical flame thing needs to burn!

Torch #4 is amazing, as it gives a big burst projectile and a decent amount of burning, and greatly sinergize with Radiant fire trait…
For those who’s complaining about the gambling when you throw it, just learn to shoot it watching the area you are in…
Torch#5 needs a big buff, like reducing cast time from 4s to 3s, and granting 1s of burning for each hit, or let the flame explode on last hit giving 3 stacks of burning AOE… Oh, and increase the dmg also

imperial.4962:

What about for PvE? Could someone make a decent dmg sword/torch build using, let’s say, knight’s/ rampager’s gear?

well for PVE i would also simply replace the meta build from obal with sword/torch.

Why you would put knights/ rampager in the mix is beyond me. All the way sinsiter and you are good to go.

pretty sure sword would be more dps on sigle target anyways since the chain will produce 2 procs instead of 1 on mace on top of it being much faster therefore compensating the symbol ticks.

OT:
Torch is in a very fine spot imo. yes #5 could use something but i would be happy with just cleansing one or two condition at the beginning. could open up a utility spot for cleansing in other game modes.

Torch has always proced VoJ a lot but trhough burn as a stscking condition it a got substantial DPS boost.

so really any added benefit would be icing on the cake.

Spartacus.9743:

For those who’s complaining about the gambling when you throw it, just learn to shoot it watching the area you are in…

This is really no excuse for a bugged mechanic. I’ve had it obstructed on completely flat ground before.