Traits
Even when you go Guardian support, the method of supporting can be through damaging.
Your GS has a combo field that will give people retaliation, every time it’s applied it triggers AH. Even on yourself. Not to mention if you use Empowering Might you can proc that, which in turn triggers AH healing , depending on how many people get the buff (up to 5) next up is your shield, the 4 on it provides protection for everyone… because you’re applying a buff you are also triggering AH, again that’s more healing. All of this is done while damaging. You’re buffing people, damaging and healing yourself. In my opinion, that’s a hybrid.
There are a lot of people that seem to think Guardians have this full on traditional role of support. GW2 with the Guardian is all about being a Hybrid, you provide damage support which is actually your way of using the rest of your traits and abilities for support. Having a fairly high crit chance is advantageous for the Guardian if you’re using Empowering Might. You provide more damage support, and in turn proc empowering might, which is stacking for everyone to provide the whole group more damage… and AH healing.
Shout’s will of course also trigger AH, but I think you’re wrong in thinking they are the primary method for AH. My empowering might provides more sustained healing then my shouts.
Also if you’re looking at doing WvW, then I’d seriously consider running a staff. Line of warding is incredibly useful, and the heal on the staff stacks multiple stacks of might. With AH, the heal will pretty much full heal you.
You want to be able to put out some damage while alone? I think you’re looking in to the wrong spec’s if that’s really what you’re after. Those sort of specs will have you dueling for days, or until someone receives reinforcements. Your damage is going to be quite low , especially if you’re using clerics.
“Great Damage” depend on what he would consider “Great” He could have been saying he was doing “Great Damage” considering he’s not traited for it. Healway is a great build, and works well in small groups too, but you won’t really be doing much damage at all.
Soloing people as it is with a Guardian takes a while (unless they are a full on glass cannon, which is funny to fight) in fact I’ve had a few fights where both my opponent and I haven’t really been able to do much to each other.. so we just /waved and moved on.
Ha funnily enough I’m lvling a Mesmer at the moment as my next character. How did you find them? I’m after something that can ranged DPS, disrupt and support.
Yea the build looks good, if it were me i’d change one thing for small group play. I’d take Pure of Voice instead of the Two hander specialization.
1. Is it worth going for Altruistic Healing without a heavy support weapon like the staff, or consecrations? Looking at the table on the Wiki (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Altruistic_Healing), there doesn’t appear to be a great deal of healing potential with the greatsword and shield. There are also the shouts to factor in, as well as the Virtues and traits such as Empowering Might, though. Thoughts?
Altruistic Healing is awesome for tanking, though if you’re not using a Staff… you always have the option to pick Monk’s Focus and use Meditations for awesome self-heals.
If you’re not using Meditations, I think it’s effectiveness drop greatly, but if you don’t have anything else worth to pick, it’s still a decent choice.
2. Would investing in some healing power be a waste with a GS & sword/shield, shout build? There are quite a few healing methods within the three trait trees I’m looking at. It seems a good amount of healing power would add up in the long run, but at the same time, unless I go full cleric’s, it doesn’t look as though it’d make a huge difference.
I’d say yes, Healing Power is generally not worth it unless you get it to great lengths and use appropriate traits/weapons for it.
The reason for it is bad scaling. The greatest scaling you can get is Selfless Daring, which means you heal an extra 1 per 1 healing point. (So at 1000+ it’s an awesome heal)
Shield of Absorption is about 20~30 per 100 Healing Points, so even if you had 650 (Cleric trinkets without Gems), it’d heal for about 130~ extra.
Virtue of Resolve goes to 123 compared to a 102 in a 300 Healing Power from Honor alone, which is about 1260 extra health per minute. Over a long fight, it’s sorta okay I guess, for quick fights though, I wouldn’t rely on 1000ish extra health.
So, you can check the heals you’re going to have and their scaling on the wiki, and notice their cooldown is usually long with small scaling, that’s why I say it’s generally bad unless you go full Healing.
Though the bad scaling is probably because Guardians have plenty of healing sources, so don’t forget to add them up and see if you think it’s worth it.
3. Sigils? Based on all of the above, what would you recommend?
For damage? Force and Accuracy (extra 5% critical one) are my favorites.
For a secondary weapon you use defensively, Endurance as it gives you another dodge, useful for running away.
For a secondary weapon set you use to catch runners or enhance your 1v1 capability, Hydromancy is awesome.
And if you’re confident you can get away most of the time, it’s good to have a weapon with Bloodlust or any other kill-stacking stat, and then switching to another weapon.
Thank you. I was actually looking mostly at Selfless Daring when considering cleric’s gear, because a 1k+ heal for myself and allies every time I dodge does look real nice. However, yeah, I get what you’re saying. The percentage increase on a lot of the heals is low. Assuming I’m going greatsword and sword/focus, using all shout utilities, and going 0/0/30/30/10 (the build I posted in my previous post), would you recommend cleric’s gear? This would be in conjunction with knight’s gear to proc Empowering Might.
That really depends, regardless of your build, of your playstyle.
If you’re the type to jump in the middle of 20+ of the enemy zerg, I think you’re better off with some Soldier set.
If you prefer to “fish” for kills on those who jump on your zerg, Berserk is the best.
Knights is an in-between those.
If you think you’ll be spending some time in the back lines just healing and rangeing, Cleric’s a good idea.
That said, if what you want is the power to stay longer in fights, full Soldier is great if you have the healing (Staff + Altruistic Healing for example), if you don’t, Cleric could help you getting the healing you lack.
So I think it’s for you to decide how you like to play, and gear accordingly.
Use the calculator at www.gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/ and plan ahead. Use the Mists to check some values for yourself (such as how much your heals will heal with X healing).
If you’re unsure what/how you’d like to play, I suggest just getting some cheap rare gear, and throw yourself in WvW and play.
Did you die too much because you rushed alone? Did you lack the healing to keep your group up? Did you lack the power to finish some kills? Did you lack balance to survive some 1v1s? etc
But keep this mind, no matter how good you gear or balance your Guardian, it’ll never be enough. Afterall, you’re just one. Don’t expect to jump in 5 × 20 fight and survive, and when you die you think “Soldier/Cleric/Knight gear sucks!”…
I think you have 3 choices if you wanna do damage and support but it is up to you.
Wanna go support go clerics with some shouts this is a very viable build;
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.0|0.0.0.0.0.0|0.0.0.0.0.0|1k.0.1k.0.1k.0.1k.0.1k.0.1k.0|1k.68.1k.68.1k.68.1k.68.1k.68.ck.68|0.0.a5.u29b.u298|0.0|0.0.0.0.0|e
I personally love the hammer for its protection (#1) so in this way i have a high crit chance for my EM which triggers my might and the auto which triggers my protection due to the boon duration my protection is up all time. Next to that i have about 5 to 8 stacks of might when im in a fight thx to EM.
Wanna do damage then you need to go more to meditation build
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.3|2.1n.h1|6.1n.h1|1n.71g.1c.71g.1c.71h.1n.71h.1c.b1h.1c.b1h|1g.64.1g.64.1g.61.1g.61.1g.61.cg.61|f2.5.u61c.k38.0|0.0|v.15.13.12.g|e
Same goes here only if you really wanna do GS then you can swith EM for 20% CD on 2h. But here the combo also works, you drop down a lot of symbols with the hammer so vuln will stack on your enemies.
These are the builds i have played with and i still love the middle one the most, but just in case i always have my full clerics set with me when people need support.
Just for the record, i don’t say these builds are the best, but it is just to give you an idea how it works and what it looks like with gear on…
I hope this helped a bit
Blunt of Balthazar – 80 Human Guardian
Khan of Feurt – 80 Charr Necromancer
I consider myself a “smart” player. By that I mean, I’ll push the enemy and go further than a lot of PUGs that are afraid to get hit, but I won’t throw myself right in there. In terms of positioning, I’d be in the midst of my allies, so they benefit from Selfless Daring and my shouts, but a bit towards the front so that I can be within melee range.
Hmm in WvW, “melee range” is usually away from your group. I’ll try to describe the how most battles went from my experience and give an input so you can have an idea of what you might enjoy best.
[Cowards Battle]
You can usually see a distinct line of enemies and allies, and they keep moving forward/backward throwing stuff (ranged attacks) around.
You’ll see a bunch of players moving to the flanks to avoid the bloated mass of players in the middle, escaping the AoE, but fighting enemies who also went to the sides.
Very few dare charge in, since this is a high risk low reward situation. With all players attacking in range, anyone who comes closer becomes the focus of the attacks.
The most common professions that charges are Guardians, Warriors, Thieves and Elementalists, as they have plenty ways of running back to their team with blocks/invuls/teleports/etc.
This is the most common zerg x zerg battle you’ll fight.
For this type, having a Scepter/Staff is essential, as you won’t get to do much with melee except to kill those who charge in your team.
You can provide support with healing and boons, but these battles are usually… fruitless, very few die, if you pressure the enemy they just retreat and come back a few mins later.
Most unorganized groups fight like this.
[Turtle Battles]
Turtle battle, that’s how I like to call it, is when a group just stands in one place, all together, and they don’t move at all.
This may sound suicide, but it works surprisingly well when you got a good team.
Guardians rotate themselves with Wall of Reflection, Sanctuary, Shield of the Avenger (not so much since now it’s dying too fast), and whatever projectile protection you can get.
Everyone (including Guardians) throws whatever AoE heals they can. You’ll see these turtles stacked with 1 min regeneration boons, and constantly healing (Symbols’ Healing, Empower, Battle Presence from the Guardians).
This makes all AoE and group utilities 100% effective, since it’s hitting and protecting every ally, and then the battle becomes damage x healing/mitigation.
Smart enemies don’t come close to the turtle (obviously) as they get insta-downed when 10+ melees, standing still doing nothing, all hit attack at once. Rangeds keep fighting with enemies, and so goes on.
Retaliation is huge in these fights too, a single Symbol of Wrath can down an enemy caster alone.
(As an Elementalist, I already fought turtles like these and I cast all my heavy AoE sequence of my “sorta-glass cannon” Elementalist. I downed myself with hundreds of 350ish damage from Retaliation alone (that I couldn’t stop, since the AoE kept raining).)
Here you can take full advantage of your support build. Again, melee is pretty weak, but even the Greatsword and Sword/Shield have their uses.
[True Battles]
This is the type I enjoy the most, as they are the most chaotic you can get, but are also the rarest I’ve fought.
Instead of sticking only to ranged attacks, a team rushes forward and clash directly with the enemies. Being a heavy melee with good defense here is where it shines most, as you probably won’t have any chance to get away from the battle.
This mostly happens with organized guilds or groups, since they don’t want to be stuck in a “Cowards Battle”, but they want to wipe the enemy and move forward.
This is where any build works, and dealing damage is important as you help your team get kills.
So, I don’t think your idea of being in “melee range” will always work. However, if you take into account most situations, being support really pays off.
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How’s around 15k health and 2.8-3k armour on a Guardian? If that’s a nice base, I could just aim for that, then put the rest into healing.
Just with my traits (0/0/30/30/10), I’d have almost 14k health and +30% crit damage, and close to 2.5k armour. I guess it’s just about deciding as to whether to fill in the spaces with cleric’s or soldier’s. I’m not sure how true it holds now, but back when I first bought the game, I read the Guardian forums a lot and remember seeing the 15k HP and 3k armour being mentioned a lot as a good ratio for a Guardian, and then to add whatever other stats that your specific build required. Not so true now, or?
This is another subjective topic… so don’t expect an objective reply!
I think 3k Defense being awesome since you can take any burst from any profession and still live, if your health’s high enough.
I run with 20k Health and 3k Defense, so I’m biased about it… I wouldn’t think of playing with 15k Health, since (from what I’ve tried) I don’t think the gains in attack overweights the survivability I lose.
This is a build I use often (sometimes switching Valor -> Zeal for damage), and I couldn’t get any better attack in a way that didn’t cost so much health/armor.
However, honestly, most battles I’m in are more similar to the third scenario you described (“True Battles”). Either there are two clashing zergs in mass chaos, my group hitting another and them splitting and running (or all of us dying, at which point your profession doesn’t really matter), or sieges.
Heh, the first time I fought a battle like that was when my server fought Blackgate for the first time. I don’t remember if I was on Ehmry or Dragonbrand or any other server (I switched alot back then).
Firstly it was frustrating, as I couldn’t get away at all, but also the most fun battles I’ve had. The time I killed myself due Retaliation on my Elementalist was also against Blackgate.
I looked into it all a bit more and understand the popularity of soldier’s gear. I did the math for all of the healing methods my build would possess and the only real significant gain would be in Selfless Daring. So, with that said, I think I’ll go all knight’s/soldier’s/berserker’s. I’m going to aim for 18k HP, 3k armor, and 40-45% crit chance. Once I have those stats down, I’ll throw everything else at crit damage. How’s that?
I think that’s insanely high, if you manage to get those stats with a 30/30/X Valor/Honor build, remember to share with us.
There’s a bunch of Guardians who are stats-maniac and are always pushing the best numbers they can get.
My choice as to go with the greatsword and sword/focus (switched from shield for more offense) is based on theme, really. I don’t like the idea of a heavy class with a caster weapon.
I get it, I’d love to play just with Sword & Shield and maybe a Greatsword, as it’s more aesthetically pleasant for me (feels more Knight-ish), but unfortunately I put too much weight in the “effectiveness” factor when I’m playing.
I’m still trying to make up a build with those weapons that makes me feel as effective as my current one, but I’m still not there. Too many good traits to pick and so few points…
1. AH is good even without staff if you are using a bunch of shouts.
2. As long as you have selfless daring, healing power is not a waste, but it should not be a priority either unless you are building to be full support.
3. Since it seems like you want to increase your damage, damage-oriented sigils like sigil of fire or battle make the most sense. I wouldn’t use +5 damage or 5 crit % unless its on your offhand weapon. The active effect sigils are better.
I know you say you want to use GS and sword/shield only, but you’d be better off using staff or scepter/shield.
I love the staff now it’s been buffed, I find it so good for WvW if you can find others to run with due to the buffs and healing. The 5 ability is also great for blocking runners or blocking off chasers so you can escape. Secondary is GS for when I need to kill something myself, be it a mob or a 1v1 situation. I have a sceptre/shield if I need to go into ranged for a long period.
I’ve started building a boon duration kit, which will give 40% (+5 from traits), with 2 shouts and virtues all getting thrown out as well as the boons from weapons. (And of course Save Yourselves buffing me up to the eyeballs). And with AH, boons = healing!
Sigil wise I have this: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil_of_Generosity which i’m assured does work in WvW just not PvP. Because my PvE build is quite critty, a lot of this has translated over and so I wanted a sigil that would aid shaking off conditions. I use Sigil of Blood in my PvE AH Hammer build because it does damage but again heals (I do like the fact I can take the hits in my group and then have to heal the others up with my buffs whilst I merrily get healed with AH and dodging).
I run a 0/15/30/20/5 build in PvE but trying out a 0/5/30/30/5 build in WvW which I like. I’d pick Pure of Voice but apparently they still haven’t sorted that trait, which is a shame.
I come from playing WoW where so much of the time the majority would just run in and i’d have to get the flag myself, or protect the AB base myself, etc etc, so i’m quite happy helping out the team rather than being a loose cannon just trying to kill everything in site. It all depends on your playstyle.
Also as a side note, I’ve started using the boon duration kit with staff for events such as Dwayna and it’s so good and AH just goes mad with healing, the only time I risk health is if I have to go revive one of the poor classes that don’t have such an absurd trait