Guild Wars 2

Is it just me or are they hard countered by just about every ranged class that can kite?
That’s not to say mobility is always bad but without swiftness or some soft CC, I feel like I’m at an automatic disadvantage versus ranged classes or high mobility classes.

I spent the whole day duelling people on various classes/builds and with various skill levels. That’s new people and legendary champion title people. I noticed that versus a mesmer, engie, ranger and necro with skill equal to mine, I struggle very hard to beat them and often lose because they can stealth or run away to heal while kiting me and while I get loaded with condis.

In the end, as I got to fighting the meta builds and stuff that guardians really struggle with, continuous condi application, slows, snares, dazes I lost over and over. Even when I timed all my skills, dodged all the bad stuff and stacked might with blocks, I couldn’t beat them. I even spectated how they played and they weren’t even that fast most of the time. they just had skills that applied conditions on short cooldowns.

I feel weak now, when I played later on a warrior, engie and ele, I won those same fights, and more. It made me feel like DPS guardian just… doesn’t work. Without perma vigor, I’m slow and sluggish and I can’t stack various boons like many other classes can. The guardian skills don’t do anything but direct damage, no real condi’s, no CC, no significant self buff like regen. Just look at your skills, some of them apply boons for like 1-2 secs but most of them just “do damage”.

I feel weak, and since PvP and my guardian is basically all I play for, I really feel like this nerf to direct damage and to vigor may have just broken the class for me.

Am I wrong here, or do other DPS guardians feel the same?

Well with the DPS build I posted here – https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Amplified-Burst-Build/first#post3997325 I rarely have problems with anyone due to ranged kiting (I use scepter for one)…

The only real hard-counter I’ve found to my build so far is those PVT Minion Necros when they camp laser and I have to fight them in a tiny area and cant avoid minion deaths.

Conditions haven’t really been an issue as it blows up most people pretty quickly and has access to so much blocks/blinds on top of instantly and constantly applying heavy pressure on opponents forcing defensive play. A well played condi necro is still a very very tough 1v1 but if you use CD’s right you have a good chance to win it.

What weapons are you using? The effectiveness of a guard in duels is affected strongly by whether you’re using primarily 1H or 2H weapons, I’ve found. Sceptre/sword is a lot more resistant to kiting than hammer/greatsword. Dank’s build is an example of the former; it’s a great duelist build but it falls flat when there are more people around. I ran something like that for a while, but it is frustrating when there are 3 people around and you can only hit one of them, and you have to watch the others take your teammates down.

The build I’m running now is a hammer/gs build with 20k hp. I can duel, the hammer gives me some control, but it’s not too difficult to kite me. Where I excel is in team fights, where the two weapons put out massive AoE damage and I don’t really die that easily. That’s a niche of a DPS guardian I think.

So you basically have 2 options: duel centred build that falters in team fights, or team-fight centred build that falters in duels. I personally wouldn’t choose the former, as a thief/mesmer/warrior/engi can all do that very well. Guardians are always framed as team players rather than soloists, and it’s interesting how this characteristic has made its way into the way we do damage too.

Give rune of the traveler a shot, works wonders for me. I feel so dead in the water without them.

there are around maybe 10 dps builds that work fine in pvp for guardians.

i like GS with s/f most using 2/0/6/0/6 trip medi

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNAsdRlsApaodDxdI8DNR8Ql9K+ixYVBw1/QQkDA-TZRBwAF3fAzhAgcZgHnAAAPBAA

2 gap closer on short CD, 3 blinds for thiefs, 3 condi cleansers, 5 heals with good CD’s, 2 blocks apart from ageis plenty of dps and burst combo’s.

Stability isn’t great but i do fine with it.

SPNKr.6208:

What weapons are you using? The effectiveness of a guard in duels is affected strongly by whether you’re using primarily 1H or 2H weapons, I’ve found. Sceptre/sword is a lot more resistant to kiting than hammer/greatsword. Dank’s build is an example of the former; it’s a great duelist build but it falls flat when there are more people around. I ran something like that for a while, but it is frustrating when there are 3 people around and you can only hit one of them, and you have to watch the others take your teammates down.

The build I’m running now is a hammer/gs build with 20k hp. I can duel, the hammer gives me some control, but it’s not too difficult to kite me. Where I excel is in team fights, where the two weapons put out massive AoE damage and I don’t really die that easily. That’s a niche of a DPS guardian I think.

So you basically have 2 options: duel centred build that falters in team fights, or team-fight centred build that falters in duels. I personally wouldn’t choose the former, as a thief/mesmer/warrior/engi can all do that very well. Guardians are always framed as team players rather than soloists, and it’s interesting how this characteristic has made its way into the way we do damage too.

I have to disagree on your assessment that my build falls short with multiple targets. If you’ve ran it and felt that way you did something way wrong.

I have been running it in soloq for days now and have excelled in many/many 1vx fights including vs X with healer/hybrid/other dps Guards. The build has the potential to near instantly down several low armor enemies with aoe such kittenter Mesmers and glass thieves.

I can’t count how many times I jumped into an outnumbered fight timing shield of wrath explosion with JI and then Leap of faith and seen 2-3 enemies instantly downed , and if not definitely scattering like ants with low hp and long burns on them.. Which of course then prompts GS 5/2.

With all the blinds and blocks and invuln intelligently used, it also has the potential to come out the victor of longer sustain fights.

Anyways I went on too long now, and the build does have its counters and weaknesses, but you were incorrect in identifying them.

Devils.3679:

there are around maybe 10 dps builds that work fine in pvp for guardians.

Very much agree with this.

Thanks for a the replies, I think SPNKr so far has the right of it, guardians have to choose between being either good at duelling or good in teamfights. My aim was to have a build that can do all of that in one.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNArfRlsApcoNDxaI8DNR8QVVAg9V8fV61zwRkDA-TJBBwAAeEAeODA12fAcZAA

It looks pretty sweet on paper, you’ll see. Relies on might stacking to not only hit like a truck but also apply conditions that tick for ~550. Sadly Sigil of accuracy is bugged and doesn’t work so I run intelligence these days.

I was able to go 1v1 with it vs classes that normally make guardians sweat, Mesmers, engineers etc. Because they don’t have excellent condi removal.

I also just feel cheated that Selfless Daring is only 50% as strong in PvP as it is anywhere else. The idea behind the build was that with that much healing power, I’d have massive sustain due to dodge roll synergy. But it only heals for about 400.

I know there’s many builds out there but on all other classes , I can take my duelling build into group fights and do fine, on the guardian, I can’t. With the Vigor nerf, Dodge roll heal nerf and nerf to direct damage, I feel guardians took a fist to the face and ate it.

“I can’t count how many times I jumped into an outnumbered fight timing shield of wrath explosion with JI and then Leap of faith and seen 2-3 enemies instantly downed , and if not definitely scattering like ants with low hp and long burns on them.. Which of course then prompts GS 5/2.”

Not sure what level of skill those opponents have or how glassy they were but versus the people I play, that is impossible. xD

Aedrion.6483:

“I can’t count how many times I jumped into an outnumbered fight timing shield of wrath explosion with JI and then Leap of faith and seen 2-3 enemies instantly downed , and if not definitely scattering like ants with low hp and long burns on them.. Which of course then prompts GS 5/2.”

Not sure what level of skill those opponents have or how glassy they were but versus the people I play, that is impossible. xD

If you’re jumping into a group already engaged in a fight, Shield of Wrath can do some massive AOE damage timed well with Judge’s Intervention. Even in 1v1 it’s pretty obvious that it’s coming but still quite effective. I usually get 4-5k damage with it.

Here’s something like I use.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNAsdSnkIS1Q2NEmDB/QmIeQsOUrNVF46fBzB-TpBFwAMOCAy3fYwDAYxhAoaZAAnAAA

Completely focused on dps. Besides my burst combo, the sword AA does some serious sustained damage. Works great in team fights with the cleave and the survivability is decent considering how focused on dps I am. I’ve got a full condition cleanse with contemplation of purity that’s usually all I need in a 1v1 as the fight doesn’t last that long. I’ll use smite condition for damage more often and some fury, though it is handy to cleanse an imob on low CD.

My burst combo is: Shield of Wrath > Mighty Blow > Judge’s Intervention > Banish > Zealot’s Embrace > Flashing Blade > Smite Condition > Sword AA.

Combining Shield of Wrath with Mighty Blow on a Judge’s Intervention can do about 10k in damage. If you can pull off banish or zealot’s embrace it’s easy enough to AA them down with sword. With fury up the sword hits at 86% crit chance (51% base, 15% from Right Hand Strength and 20% from fury) and with the 30% damage multipliers and crit damage that’s a lot of damage.

Sigils and runes are generally left to preferences, but I really enjoy runes of the traveler. It really helps to stick to your target with sword AA. I also take berserker amulet for max dps. Anything less isn’t a dps guardian and more like a hybrid.

Scepter also works really well instead of hammer.

Shanks.2907:

Aedrion.6483:

“I can’t count how many times I jumped into an outnumbered fight timing shield of wrath explosion with JI and then Leap of faith and seen 2-3 enemies instantly downed , and if not definitely scattering like ants with low hp and long burns on them.. Which of course then prompts GS 5/2.”

Not sure what level of skill those opponents have or how glassy they were but versus the people I play, that is impossible. xD

If you’re jumping into a group already engaged in a fight, Shield of Wrath can do some massive AOE damage timed well with Judge’s Intervention. Even in 1v1 it’s pretty obvious that it’s coming but still quite effective. I usually get 4-5k damage with it.

Here’s something like I use.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNAsdSnkIS1Q2NEmDB/QmIeQsOUrNVF46fBzB-TpBFwAMOCAy3fYwDAYxhAoaZAAnAAA

Completely focused on dps. Besides my burst combo, the sword AA does some serious sustained damage. Works great in team fights with the cleave and the survivability is decent considering how focused on dps I am. I’ve got a full condition cleanse with contemplation of purity that’s usually all I need in a 1v1 as the fight doesn’t last that long. I’ll use smite condition for damage more often and some fury, though it is handy to cleanse an imob on low CD.

My burst combo is: Shield of Wrath > Mighty Blow > Judge’s Intervention > Banish > Zealot’s Embrace > Flashing Blade > Smite Condition > Sword AA.

Combining Shield of Wrath with Mighty Blow on a Judge’s Intervention can do about 10k in damage. If you can pull off banish or zealot’s embrace it’s easy enough to AA them down with sword. With fury up the sword hits at 86% crit chance (51% base, 15% from Right Hand Strength and 20% from fury) and with the 30% damage multipliers and crit damage that’s a lot of damage.

Sigils and runes are generally left to preferences, but I really enjoy runes of the traveler. It really helps to stick to your target with sword AA. I also take berserker amulet for max dps. Anything less isn’t a dps guardian and more like a hybrid.

Scepter also works really well instead of hammer.

Funny I made this same build yesterday with only a couple trait swaps (same point allocation) and different sigils. I found it quite enjoyable and effective.. I did surprisingly find it harder to do as well in long sustained group fights then with my burst build. Strong offense seems to be a pretty good dmg mitigator. I found 1v1 very easy with it, though much longer.

Lately I’ve been using this for my tpvp matches, it’s a pretty common build I just changed the ammy and such. It’s extremely tanky, and still hits hard. It relies a lot on might stacks for your power, you average about 15 stacks of might by yourself. Even more if you op to use rune of strength, but I prefer speed.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNAR8dlsApaolDxbI8DRRDRljNYHBHXXe9BkABAA-TpBEABJ8AAk4IAUdZAAOIA8s/wDXAAA

Harbinger.8637:

Lately I’ve been using this for my tpvp matches, it’s a pretty common build I just changed the ammy and such. It’s extremely tanky, and still hits hard. It relies a lot on might stacks for your power, you average about 15 stacks of might by yourself. Even more if you op to use rune of strength, but I prefer speed.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNAR8dlsApaolDxbI8DRRDRljNYHBHXXe9BkABAA-TpBEABJ8AAk4IAUdZAAOIA8s/wDXAAA

Have you tried this with Celestial Amulet? I have to say I was pleasantly surprised when I ran a build similar to this with one.

Go with this in my personal opinion: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNArdRlsApaolDxbI8DVR8QlZd8i2UVAgz1/QQkDA-TZBFwACOBAOeCAl2foaZAAHCAA

That’s what I run in duels, hotjoin, soloQ, and teamQ (when they don’t make me bunker) and it works all around if you put some time into learning the balance between surviving and damaging them. You need to learn when you have an opening and take it quickly before the window closes and you jump in to your death. If you want more survival, try a celestial amulet or even soldiers if you absolutely are having trouble jumping right in with this build until you learn it.