Vitality / Precision / Healing Power Gear
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It would leave you with little to no base damage or toughness.
Chris “Dawnheart” Aerinoh — Revenant, Guardian — Blackgate
It would leave you with little to no base damage or toughness.
Little power? Agreed. You’ll notice a damage drop, but it also depends on your critical hit rate. A decent critical hit rate can make up for a loss of power (not entirely mind you), though if you run Knight gear, you’ll have both precision and power. Little toughness? I can’t say I agree. Sure, you’ll miss out on some toughness, but the additional healing far exceeds what you’ll lose.
First, there are no Magi accessories (except a guild backpack), so you’ll have to use another type (Knight or Cleric). With Cleric accessories, you’ll still have some additional toughness giving you a decent balance between toughness and vitality. With Knight gear, you’ll sacrifice some healing for additional critical hit rate.
I run dungeons with Magi gear and compared to total Cleric gear, my survivability jumps. Sure, the build was better when Vigorous Precision could activate on every critical hit, but Empowering Might still makes it worthwhile. The only thing I can’t say for certain is the survivability against the general Altruistic Healing/Hammer build as Knight armor is still rising in price (and I can’t be bothered to farm gold for it).
With Magi gear, you’ll be able to (nearly) ensure that Vigor is active for maximum dodge uses. With Healing Power, this can be around 1,600 health every few seconds. If you intend to use this set, run it will a fast weapon set like greatsword or sword. It also allows you to use the Sigil of Blood better than other builds (and even more with precision food items) as it will heal around 1,700 health with healing power gear. The extra damage (from the leech) makes up for some of the loss in damage.
Ultimately, if you are willing to spend the time farming 1,700+ tokens (or buy Priory armor) and purchase some additional healing accessories, try this build out and experiment with accessories and weapons. You’ll definitely notice a large increase in healing, but the increase of precision (over power) will almost require you to avoid hammer.
The issue is that toughness causes Healing power to be more effective. Only giving you straight vitality causes your health pool to become huge, while not mitigating as much damage. The healing power wont keep making up for the difference as say a glass cannon hits you for 6k, you can dodge heal twice to get back 4k, your still 2k down. With a 3k+ armor from added tougness that hit might only do 3k, where as your heal is going to still heal for 4k, netting you actual over healing. Increasing toughness is far better for healing power than increasing vitality.
Living Dead Girl ~ Necro
[Rev]
[Rev]
Good complement for Cleric users =)
“We have no first-person view because stupid people would lock into it”
“You can’t have more than 10 HS decks because that would confuse people”
“30 fps is more cinematic”
“You can’t have more than 10 HS decks because that would confuse people”
“30 fps is more cinematic”
i’d advice you to read the sticky post regarding the crit/AH build, that stat combo is discussed there, and reading the whole thing is quite enlightening
The issue is that toughness causes Healing power to be more effective. Only giving you straight vitality causes your health pool to become huge, while not mitigating as much damage. The healing power wont keep making up for the difference as say a glass cannon hits you for 6k, you can dodge heal twice to get back 4k, your still 2k down. With a 3k+ armor from added tougness that hit might only do 3k, where as your heal is going to still heal for 4k, netting you actual over healing. Increasing toughness is far better for healing power than increasing vitality.
True, toughness and healing power are better than vitality and healing power. The issue here is that Cleric armor features power while Magi armor features precision. In burst heals alone, Cleric would easily be better over Magi. Meditation builds would better benefit from Cleric armor. However, Empowering Might/Altruistic Healing builds are better with a higher critical hit chance (more crits, more boons, more heals), thus Magi armor would be better. With Magi equipment (and Cleric accessories), I have 25% more health (3,500) and nearly triple the critical hit rate (27%) than only Cleric equipment. This doesn’t factor food items. I only lose 400 armor and 300 power.
While healing power is exponentially better with more toughness, the lack of health makes you more susceptible to conditions. Yes, Guardians have several methods of removing conditions. However, the more condition removals you use, the less room you have for other utilities. Having critical hit rate over power boosts Altruistic Healing and other healing methods (Sigil of Blood and Omnomberry Pie’s life steal). The amount of healing gained by having some extra precision can heavy counter the slight armor loss.
i think the best stat combo is power/vit/tough armor and Vit/crit/heal-pow trinkets + back slot, weapons can be Knight or vit/crit/heal-pow, whatever works for you.
this is what gave me the best results, 18k hp, about 3k armor and 1k+ Healing power, also pick up a +10 prec on kill sigil for a nice boost on crit chance
well this is because, while it is true that heal pow goes well with toughness, you still need some vitality, cause our base hp is way too low
knights is the best really since guards have the low hp pool, the vitality doesnt get boosted like the warrior so +vit gear is the least effective for guards.
Magi > Clerics for Guardians in PvE imo. Non-healing stat gear is even better than both, but whatever…I like to gimp myself and pretend I’m a healer of sorts.
The issue is that toughness causes Healing power to be more effective. Only giving you straight vitality causes your health pool to become huge, while not mitigating as much damage. The healing power wont keep making up for the difference as say a glass cannon hits you for 6k, you can dodge heal twice to get back 4k, your still 2k down. With a 3k+ armor from added tougness that hit might only do 3k, where as your heal is going to still heal for 4k, netting you actual over healing. Increasing toughness is far better for healing power than increasing vitality.
Only true if you take consistent damage, never get spiked, don’t take much condition damage, and don’t get back to full health during the fight. That doesn’t sound like GW2 PvE.
Look up on wiki why you shouldnt mix healing power with AH. Wait, I’ll save you the trip. AH takes advantage of 1% of your healing power. Food for thought.
Guardian / Warrior / Thief / Necromancer
Black Gate – Immortals of the Mist [IoM]
Black Gate – Immortals of the Mist [IoM]
i think the best stat combo is power/vit/tough armor and Vit/crit/heal-pow trinkets + back slot, weapons can be Knight or vit/crit/heal-pow, whatever works for you.
this is what gave me the best results, 18k hp, about 3k armor and 1k+ Healing power, also pick up a +10 prec on kill sigil for a nice boost on crit chance
well this is because, while it is true that heal pow goes well with toughness, you still need some vitality, cause our base hp is way too low
Thanks for the idea. I’ve been looking at a frontline sponge build that can take hits and pressure the enemies back or scatter. If only I had more control than hammer or binding blade. ..
Guardian / Warrior / Thief / Necromancer
Black Gate – Immortals of the Mist [IoM]
Black Gate – Immortals of the Mist [IoM]
Look up on wiki why you shouldnt mix healing power with AH. Wait, I’ll save you the trip. AH takes advantage of 1% of your healing power. Food for thought.
This is one of the problems with AH. It’s far too strong without healing power.
The issue is that toughness causes Healing power to be more effective. Only giving you straight vitality causes your health pool to become huge, while not mitigating as much damage. The healing power wont keep making up for the difference as say a glass cannon hits you for 6k, you can dodge heal twice to get back 4k, your still 2k down. With a 3k+ armor from added tougness that hit might only do 3k, where as your heal is going to still heal for 4k, netting you actual over healing. Increasing toughness is far better for healing power than increasing vitality.
Only true if you take consistent damage, never get spiked, don’t take much condition damage, and don’t get back to full health during the fight. That doesn’t sound like GW2 PvE.
Without toughness your getting spiked higher, making the healing less significant. Condition damage is situational depending on the build, and most bunkers run high condition removal as it is. And just remember, it takes longer to get to full health during the fight with stacked vit as well. In no way am I saying that vit isn’t good, I’m just saying that Healing power synergizes (not a word) with toughness far better than it does with Vit.
Living Dead Girl ~ Necro
[Rev]
[Rev]
This stat combination seems strange to me, but it does seem like it could be good with a crit/AH build.
Healing power isn’t that great, but it does work well with dodge rolls heal and it pumps up the various regen sources.
I wonder if it would have any benefit over knights.
hp: 21,500
def: 2,437
heal: 1,407
crit: 41%
attack: 2,127
That’s more or less the basic stats for a full set of magi crest/gear to give you a idea what you would get.
knights is the best really since guards have the low hp pool, the vitality doesnt get boosted like the warrior so +vit gear is the least effective for guards.
I’m sorry but you are spreading misinformation. 1 point of vitality gives the same HP on all classes, no class has “boosts” to vitality but just a different amount of base HP. Vitality is as good on Guardians as it is on Warriors from a mathematical standpoint and even better if you factor in our low base HP pool.
“We have no first-person view because stupid people would lock into it”
“You can’t have more than 10 HS decks because that would confuse people”
“30 fps is more cinematic”
“You can’t have more than 10 HS decks because that would confuse people”
“30 fps is more cinematic”
toughness versus vitality?
say player A has 2000 health and has 25 percent damage reduction and player B has 2500 health and no damage reduction. a spike damage of 2000 will leave person A with 500 health and leave person B with 500 health. Assuming that they heal for 1000. so after healing, person A will have 1500 health and person B with 1500 health. say another spike damage hits both of them with 1500. Person A will have 375 health and person B will be dead.
so toughness > vitality
The issue is that toughness causes Healing power to be more effective. Only giving you straight vitality causes your health pool to become huge, while not mitigating as much damage. The healing power wont keep making up for the difference as say a glass cannon hits you for 6k, you can dodge heal twice to get back 4k, your still 2k down. With a 3k+ armor from added tougness that hit might only do 3k, where as your heal is going to still heal for 4k, netting you actual over healing. Increasing toughness is far better for healing power than increasing vitality.
Only true if you take consistent damage, never get spiked, don’t take much condition damage, and don’t get back to full health during the fight. That doesn’t sound like GW2 PvE.
Without toughness your getting spiked higher, making the healing less significant.
Getting spiked slightly higher, but Vitality gives you a lot more health.
toughness versus vitality?
say player A has 2000 health and has 25 percent damage reduction and player B has 2500 health and no damage reduction. a spike damage of 2000 will leave person A with 500 health and leave person B with 500 health. Assuming that they heal for 1000. so after healing, person A will have 1500 health and person B with 1500 health. say another spike damage hits both of them with 1500. Person A will have 375 health and person B will be dead.
so toughness > vitality
Nice made up numbers that don’t reflect actual health and damage reduction values. Here’s my turn:
say player A has 2000 health and has 5 percent damage reduction and player B has 25000 health and no damage reduction. a spike damage of 2000 will leave person A with 100 health and leave person B with 23000 health. Assuming that they heal for 1000. so after healing, person A will have 1100 health and person B with 24000 health. say another spike damage hits both of them with 1500. Person B will have 22500 health and person A will be dead.
toughness versus vitality?
say player A has 2000 health and has 25 percent damage reduction and player B has 2500 health and no damage reduction. a spike damage of 2000 will leave person A with 500 health and leave person B with 500 health. Assuming that they heal for 1000. so after healing, person A will have 1500 health and person B with 1500 health. say another spike damage hits both of them with 1500. Person A will have 375 health and person B will be dead.
so toughness > vitality
Nice made up numbers that don’t reflect actual health and damage reduction values. Here’s my turn:
say player A has 2000 health and has 5 percent damage reduction and player B has 25000 health and no damage reduction. a spike damage of 2000 will leave person A with 100 health and leave person B with 23000 health. Assuming that they heal for 1000. so after healing, person A will have 1100 health and person B with 24000 health. say another spike damage hits both of them with 1500. Person B will have 22500 health and person A will be dead.
Doesn’t reflect the actual values? Just multiply the HP by a factor and you get the rough estimate.
my example is controlled and unbiased and is pinpointed to compare toughness and vitality in almost precise terms.
your values are biased towards vitality and an overexagerration. 2000 vs 25000? 5% damage reduction? so you mean i traded 23000 health points for 5% damage reduction? i loled.
I guess YOUR example doesn’t reflect the actual values.
(edited by alcopaul.2156)
Alcopaul you can’t really do just a toughness versus vitality. Your example gives both stats the same healing power. So I guess it would be more like magi stats versus cleric stats.
I feel in a group setting magi is greater then cleric’s. Cleric’s might be able to take one or two spike hits better then magi but will have half the hps. While magi will allow because of your crit rate to heal your self and group much better. On top of that our might crit proc will give your group a higher dps.
Kinght’s tends to be favored because it more or less gives the best of both worlds. Dps is much better with knights. You will self heal just as well as you would in cleric gear and be able to take the same amount of spike hits. But your group healing won’t be as good as magi.
Completely ignoring condition damage, great theorycrafting alcopaul. Also lacks maths: make the comparison between someone that has +1000 toughness/0 vitality and someone who has +1000 vitality/0 toughness. Pull actual base values if you want to state such ominous conclusions.
“We have no first-person view because stupid people would lock into it”
“You can’t have more than 10 HS decks because that would confuse people”
“30 fps is more cinematic”
“You can’t have more than 10 HS decks because that would confuse people”
“30 fps is more cinematic”
(edited by Wolfheart.1938)
First, there are no Magi accessories (except a guild backpack)
watidonteven.
What are those rare-tier magi trinkets I’ve been using on my Guardian this entire time?
There are even exotic Magi-stat trinkets. They’re just harder to find because they don’t have “magi” in their name.
“Bleeding, Poison, Confusion, Torment, they all look delightful on you.”
Lv80s: Guard, Thief, Necro. Renewed my Altaholic’s card on the HoT Hype-Train. Choo choo~
Lv80s: Guard, Thief, Necro. Renewed my Altaholic’s card on the HoT Hype-Train. Choo choo~
First, there are no Magi accessories (except a guild backpack)
watidonteven.
What are those rare-tier magi trinkets I’ve been using on my Guardian this entire time?
There are even exotic Magi-stat trinkets. They’re just harder to find because they don’t have “magi” in their name.
I found them in the auction house yesterday, but haven’t bothered to change my post. I don’t know how long ago the items were added into the game, but I don’t recall seeing any prior to Wintersday (the last time I checked). There still aren’t any exotic Magi jewels nor any (decent) Ascended healing power gear. Besides, I feel more confortable with Cleric accessories and Magi armor. I find it a good balance of toughness and vitality while maintaining a good critical hit rate.
I’m intrigued with a build using this armor set, but not intrigued enough to buy one and try it :p
If you are after a very balanced build for most your stats, I can see it factoring heaviliy in a build like that.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
Obtena the armor/weapon is easy to get with karma and if you do a certain dungeon. The rares accessories are not to bad priced. But the exotic’s cost a arm and a leg last I looked compared to more common exotic accessories.
edit: Just double checked you should be able to get magi exotic accessories for karma in Malchor’s Leap .
(edited by lenexkabol.9438)
First, there are no Magi accessories (except a guild backpack)
watidonteven.
What are those rare-tier magi trinkets I’ve been using on my Guardian this entire time?
There are even exotic Magi-stat trinkets. They’re just harder to find because they don’t have “magi” in their name.
Save for the Magi Spineguard, I wasn’t aware there were exotic Magi everything else. Rare is not that much worse of course, but I thought we were speaking about Exotic accessories-if there are, though (and I wouldn’t be surprised if there are, because things get added all the time), I would be interested in learning their locations and/or names.
I wouldn’t recommend a full Magi’s set even if it did exist, but that’s considering personal playstyle considerations. My power is usually not super high (I don’t care), but the loss in toughness and power would be probably too much for me trying to get used to.
Toughness is the most important stat for Guardians since it is what makes your Healing so effective (if you double your armor, you basically double the effectiveness of your healing as well). In not having Toughness you’ll be squishy and that added healing won’t make up for it. I tried that gear out originally but quickly found other gear to be much more effective.
Alarox – Human Guardian
Rampage Wilson – Charr Engineer
Sea of Sorrows
Rampage Wilson – Charr Engineer
Sea of Sorrows
Having only toughness and 10k hps makes you pretty dam squishy. it’s not the most important stat as you have to have other stats that work well with it. Your toughness also plays little to no role in healing your group. In a group setting what you can do for the group should have more value then what you can only do for yourself.
Precision and healing power are the main stats that effecting your healing. But I agree with Star I don’t see much point in a 25k + hp build when you can balance the stats out a bit better. Just pointing out that you can pick up magi exotic from vender. Sadly I don’t think there are any pre/tough/healing gear sets.
for all the thoughness fans out there, Condition damage will eat you out in a flash if you dont have some vitality, Poison + Bleed and you are dead, even having just poison will make you suffer a lot more that a guardian with some vitality on
for all the thoughness fans out there, Condition damage will eat you out in a flash if you dont have some vitality, Poison + Bleed and you are dead, even having just poison will make you suffer a lot more that a guardian with some vitality on
If you got low health, you pack condition removal, especially when you will go and finish some condi heavy maps.
Condi removal is player discretion, not a limitation of a mechanic.
for all the thoughness fans out there, Condition damage will eat you out in a flash if you dont have some vitality, Poison + Bleed and you are dead, even having just poison will make you suffer a lot more that a guardian with some vitality on
If you got low health, you pack condition removal, especially when you will go and finish some condi heavy maps.
Condi removal is player discretion, not a limitation of a mechanic.
Pretty much this, pure of voice, absolute resolution, Purity, Inscribed Removal, Signet of resolve, Smite Condition, Contemplation of purity, purging flames. Thats not even counting runes/sigils. Also, almost all of those traits can be picked up at the same time as well, granted thats overkill and would gimp your build… kinda… but yeah, we have pretty much the best condition removal in the game, so it should not be something you worry about when choosing gear.
Living Dead Girl ~ Necro
[Rev]
[Rev]
toughness versus vitality?
say player A has 2000 health and has 25 percent damage reduction and player B has 2500 health and no damage reduction. a spike damage of 2000 will leave person A with 500 health and leave person B with 500 health. Assuming that they heal for 1000. so after healing, person A will have 1500 health and person B with 1500 health. say another spike damage hits both of them with 1500. Person A will have 375 health and person B will be dead.
so toughness > vitality
Nice made up numbers that don’t reflect actual health and damage reduction values. Here’s my turn:
say player A has 2000 health and has 5 percent damage reduction and player B has 25000 health and no damage reduction. a spike damage of 2000 will leave person A with 100 health and leave person B with 23000 health. Assuming that they heal for 1000. so after healing, person A will have 1100 health and person B with 24000 health. say another spike damage hits both of them with 1500. Person B will have 22500 health and person A will be dead.
Doesn’t reflect the actual values? Just multiply the HP by a factor and you get the rough estimate.
my example is controlled and unbiased and is pinpointed to compare toughness and vitality in almost precise terms.
your values are biased towards vitality and an overexagerration. 2000 vs 25000? 5% damage reduction? so you mean i traded 23000 health points for 5% damage reduction? i loled.
I guess YOUR example doesn’t reflect the actual values.
You exaggerated and skewed the values. I just upped the ante to show how assigning warped values not based on actual game data can make any sort of result you want.
for all the thoughness fans out there, Condition damage will eat you out in a flash if you dont have some vitality, Poison + Bleed and you are dead, even having just poison will make you suffer a lot more that a guardian with some vitality on
If you got low health, you pack condition removal, especially when you will go and finish some condi heavy maps.
Condi removal is player discretion, not a limitation of a mechanic.
Pretty much this, pure of voice, absolute resolution, Purity, Inscribed Removal, Signet of resolve, Smite Condition, Contemplation of purity, purging flames. Thats not even counting runes/sigils. Also, almost all of those traits can be picked up at the same time as well, granted thats overkill and would gimp your build… kinda… but yeah, we have pretty much the best condition removal in the game, so it should not be something you worry about when choosing gear.
It’s still a factor because conditions get rapidly reapplied, faster than you can remove them. There are also many fights where you get hit for multiple conditions at once. Yes, Guardians can great at removing conditions (should you choose to do so…though I don’t agree that is the best path to take if you’re gearing for healing) but that doesn’t mean you are condition-free.
Note: Warhorn warriors have better condition removal than Guardians (except maybe x/x/x/30/20 with soldier’s, though that leaves out AH).
toughness versus vitality?
say player A has 2000 health and has 25 percent damage reduction and player B has 2500 health and no damage reduction. a spike damage of 2000 will leave person A with 500 health and leave person B with 500 health. Assuming that they heal for 1000. so after healing, person A will have 1500 health and person B with 1500 health. say another spike damage hits both of them with 1500. Person A will have 375 health and person B will be dead.
so toughness > vitality
Nice made up numbers that don’t reflect actual health and damage reduction values. Here’s my turn:
say player A has 2000 health and has 5 percent damage reduction and player B has 25000 health and no damage reduction. a spike damage of 2000 will leave person A with 100 health and leave person B with 23000 health. Assuming that they heal for 1000. so after healing, person A will have 1100 health and person B with 24000 health. say another spike damage hits both of them with 1500. Person B will have 22500 health and person A will be dead.
Doesn’t reflect the actual values? Just multiply the HP by a factor and you get the rough estimate.
my example is controlled and unbiased and is pinpointed to compare toughness and vitality in almost precise terms.
your values are biased towards vitality and an overexagerration. 2000 vs 25000? 5% damage reduction? so you mean i traded 23000 health points for 5% damage reduction? i loled.
I guess YOUR example doesn’t reflect the actual values.
You exaggerated and skewed the values. I just upped the ante to show how assigning warped values not based on actual game data can make any sort of result you want.
my scenario proposes that vitality and toughness are balanced. the total hp was low, the investment to vitality is substantial and damage reduction was realistic.
whilst what you said to demolish my example was to mock it with values like 5% damage reduction for 23000 heal points.
i wish someone could do the actual analysis and not base their opinions on what they feel.
toughness versus vitality?
say player A has 2000 health and has 25 percent damage reduction and player B has 2500 health and no damage reduction. a spike damage of 2000 will leave person A with 500 health and leave person B with 500 health. Assuming that they heal for 1000. so after healing, person A will have 1500 health and person B with 1500 health. say another spike damage hits both of them with 1500. Person A will have 375 health and person B will be dead.
so toughness > vitality
Nice made up numbers that don’t reflect actual health and damage reduction values. Here’s my turn:
say player A has 2000 health and has 5 percent damage reduction and player B has 25000 health and no damage reduction. a spike damage of 2000 will leave person A with 100 health and leave person B with 23000 health. Assuming that they heal for 1000. so after healing, person A will have 1100 health and person B with 24000 health. say another spike damage hits both of them with 1500. Person B will have 22500 health and person A will be dead.
Doesn’t reflect the actual values? Just multiply the HP by a factor and you get the rough estimate.
my example is controlled and unbiased and is pinpointed to compare toughness and vitality in almost precise terms.
your values are biased towards vitality and an overexagerration. 2000 vs 25000? 5% damage reduction? so you mean i traded 23000 health points for 5% damage reduction? i loled.
I guess YOUR example doesn’t reflect the actual values.
You exaggerated and skewed the values. I just upped the ante to show how assigning warped values not based on actual game data can make any sort of result you want.
my scenario proposes that vitality and toughness are balanced. the total hp was low, the investment to vitality is substantial and damage reduction was realistic.
None of this is true. 25% damage reduction = 25% health increase? Um…no. Even if there were no healing this wouldn’t be balanced:
Player A has 2000 hp and 25% damage reduction. Player B has 2500 hp and 0% reduction. They both get hit for 2500. Player A takes 1875 damage and lives with 125 hp. Player B takes 2500 damage and dies.
Do you see now how ridiculous your “example” was?
The OP’s question was rather vague.
What is this stat combo for? Well for building something other than your typical cookie cutter crit build, that is what.
Meanwhile the cookie cutter brigade mans the battlements, and spews their mighty arguments to convince everyone of the superiority of one build.
HOD
Guardian / Ranger / Mesmer / Necro / Warrior
Played since 1st online ‘demo’ months before the BWEs.
Guardian / Ranger / Mesmer / Necro / Warrior
Played since 1st online ‘demo’ months before the BWEs.
toughness versus vitality?
say player A has 2000 health and has 25 percent damage reduction and player B has 2500 health and no damage reduction. a spike damage of 2000 will leave person A with 500 health and leave person B with 500 health. Assuming that they heal for 1000. so after healing, person A will have 1500 health and person B with 1500 health. say another spike damage hits both of them with 1500. Person A will have 375 health and person B will be dead.
so toughness > vitality
Nice made up numbers that don’t reflect actual health and damage reduction values. Here’s my turn:
say player A has 2000 health and has 5 percent damage reduction and player B has 25000 health and no damage reduction. a spike damage of 2000 will leave person A with 100 health and leave person B with 23000 health. Assuming that they heal for 1000. so after healing, person A will have 1100 health and person B with 24000 health. say another spike damage hits both of them with 1500. Person B will have 22500 health and person A will be dead.
Doesn’t reflect the actual values? Just multiply the HP by a factor and you get the rough estimate.
my example is controlled and unbiased and is pinpointed to compare toughness and vitality in almost precise terms.
your values are biased towards vitality and an overexagerration. 2000 vs 25000? 5% damage reduction? so you mean i traded 23000 health points for 5% damage reduction? i loled.
I guess YOUR example doesn’t reflect the actual values.
You exaggerated and skewed the values. I just upped the ante to show how assigning warped values not based on actual game data can make any sort of result you want.
my scenario proposes that vitality and toughness are balanced. the total hp was low, the investment to vitality is substantial and damage reduction was realistic.
None of this is true. 25% damage reduction = 25% health increase? Um…no. Even if there were no healing this wouldn’t be balanced:
Player A has 2000 hp and 25% damage reduction. Player B has 2500 hp and 0% reduction. They both get hit for 2500. Player A takes 1875 damage and lives with 125 hp. Player B takes 2500 damage and dies.
Do you see now how ridiculous your “example” was?
No.
All I got from my example is that in that “ideal” scenario, toughness > vitality.
of course, I would think otherwise if the scenario is 5% damage reduction will additionally give me 1150% of my total health pool.
(edited by alcopaul.2156)
Typically, Damage reduction is better as long as it doesn’t diminish to the point where it prevents damage less than an equivalent value of vitality. To figure that out, you need to do a little math and understand your own comfort level for what a ‘big hit’ is.
Even though toughness has diminished returns, the effective HP of a Guardian is pretty big because of access to heals and passive regen from various sources.
toughness versus vitality?
say player A has 2000 health and has 25 percent damage reduction and player B has 2500 health and no damage reduction. a spike damage of 2000 will leave person A with 500 health and leave person B with 500 health. Assuming that they heal for 1000. so after healing, person A will have 1500 health and person B with 1500 health. say another spike damage hits both of them with 1500. Person A will have 375 health and person B will be dead.
so toughness > vitality
Nice made up numbers that don’t reflect actual health and damage reduction values. Here’s my turn:
say player A has 2000 health and has 5 percent damage reduction and player B has 25000 health and no damage reduction. a spike damage of 2000 will leave person A with 100 health and leave person B with 23000 health. Assuming that they heal for 1000. so after healing, person A will have 1100 health and person B with 24000 health. say another spike damage hits both of them with 1500. Person B will have 22500 health and person A will be dead.
Doesn’t reflect the actual values? Just multiply the HP by a factor and you get the rough estimate.
my example is controlled and unbiased and is pinpointed to compare toughness and vitality in almost precise terms.
your values are biased towards vitality and an overexagerration. 2000 vs 25000? 5% damage reduction? so you mean i traded 23000 health points for 5% damage reduction? i loled.
I guess YOUR example doesn’t reflect the actual values.
You exaggerated and skewed the values. I just upped the ante to show how assigning warped values not based on actual game data can make any sort of result you want.
my scenario proposes that vitality and toughness are balanced. the total hp was low, the investment to vitality is substantial and damage reduction was realistic.
None of this is true. 25% damage reduction = 25% health increase? Um…no. Even if there were no healing this wouldn’t be balanced:
Player A has 2000 hp and 25% damage reduction. Player B has 2500 hp and 0% reduction. They both get hit for 2500. Player A takes 1875 damage and lives with 125 hp. Player B takes 2500 damage and dies.
Do you see now how ridiculous your “example” was?
No.
All I got from my example is that in that “ideal” scenario, toughness > vitality.
of course, I would think otherwise if the scenario is 5% damage reduction will additionally give me 1150% of my total health pool.
You mean in the ideal scenario where toughness provides 3x the damage mitigation that it does in the actual game?
High % base damage reduction works great for big hits. For example you can walk around with not def 10% reduce sig 33% reduce boon and soak a good amount of damage.
But the value of % based damage reduction is reduce when dealing with smaller multi hits back to back. As well as high stacks of con’s. If you have a low hp pool and high healing it goes to waste. If you have 10k-13k hps and have a healing sig that heals for 10k you will never get the full value of it unless your going to wait till you have 1k-3k left before you use it and that is kinda crazy.
With over 1k healp and 40% + crit in combat without using your heal skill or dodge you have.
healing
180-200 per tick virtue
300-340 + per tick regen boon
200ish all symbols heal trait
600 life steal sigil 5 second cd
300+ life steal proc potion with NO cd
88 per alley in range from might proc trait combo with AH 1 second
88 per alley standing in symbols with ah
In short a crit healing stat guard can heal for a very high amount per second that can be wasted if you lack a large enough hp pool for it.
And yes guards have some of the best con remove in game. But even they can’t prevent all con’s when dealing with a con spam build. I love to down some one while siting on a ledge or wall out of reach with my nade eng. Instead of finshing them off I use them as bait to lure more in to ress. The I drop poison/burn/frost and 10-15 stacks of bleed on them. The first target is now dead and I have one or two more downed to use a bait again lol.
toughness versus vitality?
say player A has 2000 health and has 25 percent damage reduction and player B has 2500 health and no damage reduction. a spike damage of 2000 will leave person A with 500 health and leave person B with 500 health. Assuming that they heal for 1000. so after healing, person A will have 1500 health and person B with 1500 health. say another spike damage hits both of them with 1500. Person A will have 375 health and person B will be dead.
so toughness > vitality
Nice made up numbers that don’t reflect actual health and damage reduction values. Here’s my turn:
say player A has 2000 health and has 5 percent damage reduction and player B has 25000 health and no damage reduction. a spike damage of 2000 will leave person A with 100 health and leave person B with 23000 health. Assuming that they heal for 1000. so after healing, person A will have 1100 health and person B with 24000 health. say another spike damage hits both of them with 1500. Person B will have 22500 health and person A will be dead.
Doesn’t reflect the actual values? Just multiply the HP by a factor and you get the rough estimate.
my example is controlled and unbiased and is pinpointed to compare toughness and vitality in almost precise terms.
your values are biased towards vitality and an overexagerration. 2000 vs 25000? 5% damage reduction? so you mean i traded 23000 health points for 5% damage reduction? i loled.
I guess YOUR example doesn’t reflect the actual values.
You exaggerated and skewed the values. I just upped the ante to show how assigning warped values not based on actual game data can make any sort of result you want.
my scenario proposes that vitality and toughness are balanced. the total hp was low, the investment to vitality is substantial and damage reduction was realistic.
None of this is true. 25% damage reduction = 25% health increase? Um…no. Even if there were no healing this wouldn’t be balanced:
Player A has 2000 hp and 25% damage reduction. Player B has 2500 hp and 0% reduction. They both get hit for 2500. Player A takes 1875 damage and lives with 125 hp. Player B takes 2500 damage and dies.
Do you see now how ridiculous your “example” was?
No.
All I got from my example is that in that “ideal” scenario, toughness > vitality.
of course, I would think otherwise if the scenario is 5% damage reduction will additionally give me 1150% of my total health pool.
You mean in the ideal scenario where toughness provides 3x the damage mitigation that it does in the actual game?
that’s why we need the actual numbers from cleric’s and magi’s and someone doing all the math because just favoring one because you feel like it is bad. at least im pouring out hypothetical numbers. 3x damage mitigation is quite generous and close to ideal rather than trading 5% damage reduction for 1150% of additional health which makes vitality inherently superior than toughness and is quite ridiculous. we just need the actual numbers. i would do it but i don’t have the gold to acquire magi’s (i have full cleric gear)
(edited by alcopaul.2156)
My post in this thread list more or less the basic stats for set of exotic armor/weapon magi. The trinkets are all rare because at the time extoics cost to much to test. With all magi crest add on’s for trinkets and armor.
You should with higher grade gear and runes be able to get 25k+ hps 40%+ crit and 1.4k + healing.
Magi add ons for trinkets max at rare unless I am missing something.
So even if you use exotic trinkets you will want to splice some thing better then a magi crest to them.
toughness versus vitality?
say player A has 2000 health and has 25 percent damage reduction and player B has 2500 health and no damage reduction. a spike damage of 2000 will leave person A with 500 health and leave person B with 500 health. Assuming that they heal for 1000. so after healing, person A will have 1500 health and person B with 1500 health. say another spike damage hits both of them with 1500. Person A will have 375 health and person B will be dead.
so toughness > vitality
Nice made up numbers that don’t reflect actual health and damage reduction values. Here’s my turn:
say player A has 2000 health and has 5 percent damage reduction and player B has 25000 health and no damage reduction. a spike damage of 2000 will leave person A with 100 health and leave person B with 23000 health. Assuming that they heal for 1000. so after healing, person A will have 1100 health and person B with 24000 health. say another spike damage hits both of them with 1500. Person B will have 22500 health and person A will be dead.
Doesn’t reflect the actual values? Just multiply the HP by a factor and you get the rough estimate.
my example is controlled and unbiased and is pinpointed to compare toughness and vitality in almost precise terms.
your values are biased towards vitality and an overexagerration. 2000 vs 25000? 5% damage reduction? so you mean i traded 23000 health points for 5% damage reduction? i loled.
I guess YOUR example doesn’t reflect the actual values.
You exaggerated and skewed the values. I just upped the ante to show how assigning warped values not based on actual game data can make any sort of result you want.
my scenario proposes that vitality and toughness are balanced. the total hp was low, the investment to vitality is substantial and damage reduction was realistic.
None of this is true. 25% damage reduction = 25% health increase? Um…no. Even if there were no healing this wouldn’t be balanced:
Player A has 2000 hp and 25% damage reduction. Player B has 2500 hp and 0% reduction. They both get hit for 2500. Player A takes 1875 damage and lives with 125 hp. Player B takes 2500 damage and dies.
Do you see now how ridiculous your “example” was?
No.
All I got from my example is that in that “ideal” scenario, toughness > vitality.
of course, I would think otherwise if the scenario is 5% damage reduction will additionally give me 1150% of my total health pool.
You mean in the ideal scenario where toughness provides 3x the damage mitigation that it does in the actual game?
that’s why we need the actual numbers from cleric’s and magi’s and someone doing all the math because just favoring one because you feel like it is bad. at least im pouring out hypothetical numbers. 3x damage mitigation is quite generous and close to ideal rather than trading 5% damage reduction for 1150% of additional health which makes vitality inherently superior than toughness and is quite ridiculous. we just need the actual numbers. i would do it but i don’t have the gold to acquire magi’s (i have full cleric gear)
It’s fairly straightforward. Vitality provides 10 health per point and damage is reduced by Armor (which is increased by Toughness).
You get something like 1200 armor from 6 exotic pieces as a base. Assuming you have ~1200 toughness, you would get a damage reduction of 20% for 600 additional toughness. Assuming you have 12000 health, you’d gain 50% health for 600 additional vitality. The numbers aren’t exact but you get the idea. In this semi-accurate scenario you’d need to take 30000 direct damage before toughness is superior to vitality, assuming you never get healed to full during that time (another big if).
My post in this thread list more or less the basic stats for set of exotic armor/weapon magi. The trinkets are all rare because at the time extoics cost to much to test. With all magi crest add on’s for trinkets and armor.
You should with higher grade gear and runes be able to get 25k+ hps 40%+ crit and 1.4k + healing.
Magi add ons for trinkets max at rare unless I am missing something.
So even if you use exotic trinkets you will want to splice some thing better then a magi crest to them.
There are exotic Magi trinkets from the temples but unfortunately Anet didn’t make exotic crests to go in them (why aren’t they included?). I believe your stats are too high as well. I am in exotic Magi armor/weapons with 2x Monk, 2x Water, 2x Major Monk with all rare Magi trinkets and crests: 20,125 health, 41% crit, 930 power, 2191 armor, 1274 healing power. 0/15/5/30/20 spec.
Yaki that’s why I said basic give or take. I will post the spec totale stats as well as world bonuses after I finish dinner. But just a example I have over 22k hps not 21k just because of the world bonus.
0/0/30/30/10 spec is what I happened to have when running the numbers tonight without any trait/potion/sig/sigil boost.
Att: 2,037 power:926
pre: 1641 crit 39%
def : 2,437
hp : 21,055/21,687 <- world bonus I take it
heal: 1317
My trinkets are masterwork not rare sorry but the rest was exotic so pre: 725 vit: 725 heal: 1017 gear wise
exotic trinket magi set is pre 256 vit 256 heal 358
A full set of exotic magi + magi crest should give you about pre: 776 vit: 776 heal: 1092
Like I said your pretty much better off switching out the magi crests.
Why would you be better off switching out the Magi crests? It’s not like you get anything better with Cleric’s.
For one you will get a higher number of stat points per jewel/rune then you would magi crests. Another would be to balance out your over all stats more.
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